Draft Elimination RND 1; L.I. LEPRECHAUN vs BigO

[nycdan]

I like both offenses better then their opposing defenses.  To me, Campbell running behind Newton or Little is so dangerous that you have to defend it on every play and hope you can get it done.  I'm not sure BigO's DL can contain that attack without LB help.  Page can, but Mathis, for example, weighs no more than Earl and I like Earl head-to-head against anyone his own size.  And that exposes the middle of the field to Winslow while Young can also scramble.  It's a lot to cover.  

On the other side, LIL's secondary just doesn't strike me as dominant, and Marino throwing to Bambi and Berry is a tough matchup with Thorpe keeping the defense honest.  

Overall, not as one-sided as the vote, and I hate to see it going that way, but I think I lean LIL on this one.  I do think BigO's team is better than some may be giving him credit for but the star-power just doesn't jump off the page as much to me.  I know he has some all-time greats, but I guess I'm partial to being strong up-front more than in the secondary.  Not necessarily 'right' but gotta go with my gut.

[BigO]

21 minutes ago, nycdan said:

I like both offenses better then their opposing defenses.  To me, Campbell running behind Newton or Little is so dangerous that you have to defend it on every play and hope you can get it done.  I'm not sure BigO's DL can contain that attack without LB help.  Page can, but Mathis, for example, weighs no more than Earl and I like Earl head-to-head against anyone his own size.  And that exposes the middle of the field to Winslow while Young can also scramble.  It's a lot to cover.  

On the other side, LIL's secondary just doesn't strike me as dominant, and Marino throwing to Bambi and Berry is a tough matchup with Thorpe keeping the defense honest.  

Overall, not as one-sided as the vote, and I hate to see it going that way, but I think I lean LIL on this one.  I do think BigO's team is better than some may be giving him credit for but the star-power just doesn't jump off the page as much to me.  I know he has some all-time greats, but I guess I'm partial to being strong up-front more than in the secondary.  Not necessarily 'right' but gotta go with my gut.

2 of the best DL in top 5 ever in Page, who revolutionized the position and Weinmeister, 2 DE with over 120 sacks / Peppers will be HOF, a MLB that basically created the position and ranked in top 5, a LB that was MVP in SB and best LB Landry coached, an OLB that had 107 sacks, a SS that was dominat in AFL and belongs in HOF.  Can’t help it if people don’t research these players history.  With a 2 back set, there’d be 8 in the box, no way those wr’s do anything vs. HOF safety and a HOF Corner 

[Jets Voice of Reason]

I think formatting is part of the score discrepancy especially when you have older players. Need at least full names imo so people can google. 

That being said, LIL has a powerhouse for skill positions. Beautiful blend of air attack and power running game with beef on the OL for days. Clear investment made on offense vs defense. Steve young to antonio brown might tire out the announcer's voice. 

However, this is definitely closer than the vote line. I mean the edge rush bigO has would be a factor and dan marino to those WRs would make this a shootout and would make turnovers and time of possession paramount to turning the balance. I am not positive what type of offense LIL wants to run, but there is just too many options to defend against. If this was a vertical based attack i think bigo has a chance, but if this is timing based west coast offense, don't think the secondary and linebackers could cover well enough overall. 

Also don't get how this could be boring. This is a slobberfest who has the ball last wins type of game. 

 

 

 

 

[BigO]

11 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

I think formatting is part of the score discrepancy especially when you have older players. Need at least full names imo so people can google. 

That being said, LIL has a powerhouse for skill positions. Beautiful blend of air attack and power running game with beef on the OL for days. Clear investment made on offense vs defense. Steve young to antonio brown might tire out the announcer's voice. 

However, this is definitely closer than the vote line. I mean the edge rush bigO has would be a factor and dan marino to those WRs would make this a shootout and would make turnovers and time of possession paramount to turning the balance. I am not positive what type of offense LIL wants to run, but there is just too many options to defend against. If this was a vertical based attack i think bigo has a chance, but if this is timing based west coast offense, don't think the secondary and linebackers could cover well enough overall. 

Also don't get how this could be boring. This is a slobberfest who has the ball last wins type of game. 

 

 

 

 

Good analysis and well thought out. Lep has no ‘older gen players’. 60’players were not much different than today’s modern guys. I have several 40-50 that were ELITE DOMINANT at their position that are totally being overlooked. And I have a HOF Shutdown Corner that the phrase was patterned over. Lep’s Cb’s would be crying by half time with Marino bombing away. Not sour just find it incredulous that people on here aren’t more informed. 

[Long Island Leprechaun]

2 hours ago, BigO said:

Marino over Young

Alworth over Brown

Thorpe : Campbell

Winslow over Saunders

Swann over Taylor 

Pop? Ok

Geez, this is a bit biased. Marino has the better arm, I'll give you that, but don't forget that Young holds the third highest career total for rushing yards by a QB and is second in rushing TD's. And he was outstanding throwing on the run.

Brown and Alworth are apples and oranges, but Brown is on a pace to equal Jerry Rice in his first eight seasons  (Brown with 9900 yard to Rice's 10,275).

Campbell would crush Thorpe. And you're forgetting leroy Kelly. that's a tough combo to stop.

Swann was a very good receiver, but not great. Taylor led the lead league in reception for two seasons as well as leading in rushing as a rookie. Swiss Army knife.

Plus, you just don't have the beef to stop my OL.

 

[Long Island Leprechaun]

1 hour ago, nycdan said:

I like both offenses better then their opposing defenses.  To me, Campbell running behind Newton or Little is so dangerous that you have to defend it on every play and hope you can get it done.  I'm not sure BigO's DL can contain that attack without LB help.  Page can, but Mathis, for example, weighs no more than Earl and I like Earl head-to-head against anyone his own size.  And that exposes the middle of the field to Winslow while Young can also scramble.  It's a lot to cover.  

On the other side, LIL's secondary just doesn't strike me as dominant, and Marino throwing to Bambi and Berry is a tough matchup with Thorpe keeping the defense honest.  

Overall, not as one-sided as the vote, and I hate to see it going that way, but I think I lean LIL on this one.  I do think BigO's team is better than some may be giving him credit for but the star-power just doesn't jump off the page as much to me.  I know he has some all-time greats, but I guess I'm partial to being strong up-front more than in the secondary.  Not necessarily 'right' but gotta go with my gut.

This is pretty fair, in my opinion. My weakness is a very good secondary but not an elite one. My linebackers are elite and I think my DL would be pretty intimidating with two HOF DE's and two pressure DT's. McCoy is right up there with Donald as the best DT in football today.

[BigO]

29 minutes ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Geez, this is a bit biased. Marino has the better arm, I'll give you that, but don't forget that Young holds the third highest career total for rushing yards by a QB and is second in rushing TD's. And he was outstanding throwing on the run.

Brown and Alworth are apples and oranges, but Brown is on a pace to equal Jerry Rice in his first eight seasons  (Brown with 9900 yard to Rice's 10,275).

Campbell would crush Thorpe. And you're forgetting leroy Kelly. that's a tough combo to stop.

Swann was a very good receiver, but not great. Taylor led the lead league in reception for two seasons as well as leading in rushing as a rookie. Swiss Army knife.

Plus, you just don't have the beef to stop my OL.

 

Congrats on the win but See you’re doing EXACTLY what I expected others to do - not ? how dominant some of these guys were in THEIR era. Weinmeister is considered a better DT than Joe Greene and Page his equivalent. Campbell crushing Thorpe? ?  The worlds greatest athlete. The guys statue is at the entrance of Canton!  Did Campbell play 5 sports? Won an Oylimpic medal? The 2 QB’s are quite the opposite. I just can’t see your secondary matching up vs. a burner like Alworth or a big play SB MVP like Swann. Your corners would get Torched ? you’d have to cover 5 guys Alworth Swann Berry Saunders Thorpe - Marino would pick that D apart like a surgeon. Young’s passing stats are half of Marino’s in yards and TD’s - it’s a mind boggling difference and Marino never even had an elite HOF in his entire career.

 

 

[Jets Voice of Reason]

It’s a game of small edges imo. I think campbell behind the interior OL is just so much ball control to contend against. That was the main difference for me. 

[Long Island Leprechaun]

27 minutes ago, BigO said:

Congrats on the win but See you’re doing EXACTLY what I expected others to do - not ? how dominant some of these guys were in THEIR era. Weinmeister is considered a better DT than Joe Greene and Page his equivalent. Campbell crushing Thorpe? ?  The worlds greatest athlete. The guys statue is at the entrance of Canton!  Did Campbell play 5 sports? Won an Oylimpic medal? The 2 QB’s are quite the opposite. I just can’t see your secondary matching up vs. a burner like Alworth or a big play SB MVP like Swann. Your corners would get Torched ? you’d have to cover 5 guys Alworth Swann Berry Saunders Thorpe - Marino would pick that D apart like a surgeon. Young’s passing stats are half of Marino’s in yards and TD’s - it’s a mind boggling difference and Marino never even had an elite HOF in his entire career.

 

 

Listen, I don't dispute your point about comparing eras. It's impossible to do in any sport. I don't give a crap about Thorpe's performance in other sports. He was a legend, but Earl Campbell was a monster on the football field. That's all that matters. I do think this match up would be interesting and the score would very much depend on how much pressure my defense could bring to bear on Marino. He had that very quick release, so it would be a challenge. I don't think you could stop the run against me, however, and my receivers are no slouches. Comparing total career yards is meaningless. Young at his best (1994) put up outstanding numbers. And he was a great rusher too. You'd be scrambling to cover all the play action possibilities. I definitely would give you the edge in vertical passing attack. I'd give myself the edge in play action (WCO) and running attack.

You built a very good team, and an interesting one. I don't care much about the polling numbers. Main thing for me is we all had fun revisiting some glorious careers to remind us how great the heritage of this game is.

[BigO]

1 minute ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Listen, I don't dispute your point about comparing eras. It's impossible to do in any sport. I don't give a crap about Thorpe's performance in other sports. He was a legend, but Earl Campbell was a monster on the football field. That's all that matters. I do think this match up would be interesting and the score would very much depend on how much pressure my defense could bring to bear on Marino. He had that very quick release, so it would be a challenge. I don't think you could stop the run against me, however, and my receivers are no slouches. Comparing total career yards is meaningless. Young at his best (1994) put up outstanding numbers. And he was a great rusher too. You'd be scrambling to cover all the play action possibilities. I definitely would give you the edge in vertical passing attack. I'd give myself the edge in play action (WCO) and running attack.

You built a very good team, and an interesting one. I don't care much about the polling numbers. Main thing for me is we all had fun revisiting some glorious careers to remind us how great the heritage of this game is.

I would take Marino with the 1st pick in this draft. He’s the best QB I’ve ever seen and his numbers prove it. It’s not even a question. He played on terrible defensive teams. And he had a good set of wr’s NOT elite. Pair Marino with Rice? Alworth? Oh I did. Can you imagine him on the Steelers, Raiders or 49ers during his era. As far as Campbell is concerned, he was very very good but still isn’t even considered top 5. Where I took Thorpe was the steal of the draft. Young would give a defense fits. Anyways congrats ??? 

[Long Island Leprechaun]

2 minutes ago, BigO said:

I would take Marino with the 1st pick in this draft. He’s the best QB I’ve ever seen and his numbers prove it. It’s not even a question. He played on terrible defensive teams. And he had a good set of wr’s NOT elite. Pair Marino with Rice? Alworth? Oh I did. Can you imagine him on the Steelers, Raiders or 49ers during his era. As far as Campbell is concerned, he was very very good but still isn’t even considered top 5. Where I took Thorpe was the steal of the draft. Young would give a defense fits. Anyways congrats ??? 

Congrats to you. The hard work was in the drafting. This is frosting. And I have to say Marino is one of my all time favorites, despite being a Jets fan. Agreed that he never really had top flight receivers -- Duper, Clayton were very good, but not elite. Lucky Jets have had to face Kelly, Marino, and now Brady in their division. Ugggh.

[Patriot Killa]

2 minutes ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Congrats to you. The hard work was in the drafting. This is frosting. And I have to say Marino is one of my all time favorites, despite being a Jets fan. Agreed that he never really had top flight receivers -- Duper, Clayton were very good, but not elite. Lucky Jets have had to face Kelly, Marino, and now Brady in their division. Ugggh.

The hard work and fun was definitely in the drafting! Mentioned it before but kudos to everyone who stuck with it the whole way through and kept up with who they were picking.

[BigO]

45 minutes ago, Jets Voice of Reason said:

It’s a game of small edges imo. I think campbell behind the interior OL is just so much ball control to contend against. That was the main difference for me. 

Ball control does not translate into td’s. How many Jet teams did Rex The Phat Boy control the clock only to lose time and time again. As you said last man who has the ball wins. How many times did Marino squeak out wins going on drives over 80 yards down by 4 with less than a minute. Countless. The man was a magician.

[BigO]

5 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

How could a game with Marino, Steve Young, and Earl Campbell be boring?

Must be an IQ issue. 

[HessStation]

Weird. I saw Big O’s team as stronger. Especially his DL and DB’s. Marino is the best QB of all time imo. I usually shuffle him, Manning and Elway around but this exercise made me realize if the teams are balanced and no coaching is involved I’m taking Marino first. Lep having Campbell made it close but O’s DL is the real deal. 

[HessStation]

Plus Marino throwing to Berry, maybe greatest hands ever, Alworth the ultimate weapon yards per catch and then Swann to make all the amazing tough ones. I don’t think Lep’s DBs would fair well. In contrast Willy Brown on Brown and Tunnell on Winslow could potentially neutralize the two stars well enough. Match up wise I’m really befuddled at the lopsided votes  

[Greenseed4]

1 hour ago, BigO said:

Must be an IQ issue. 

20-1 is pretty telling. 

 

But so is quoting the same comment again, 7 hours after your killer Raquel Welsh burn.

You probably forgot, because you’re so old. 

[BigO]

9 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said:

20-1 is pretty telling. 

 

But so is quoting the same comment again, 7 hours after your killer Raquel Welsh burn.

You probably forgot, because you’re so old. 

You’d come in your panties

 

[Greenseed4]

44 minutes ago, BigO said:

You’d come in your panties

Yeah. She’s 77 now, which makes you either delusional or gross. She was born in 1940, right about the time a majority of your team was peaking in the AFL. 

Before you reach for your keyboard and piss your Grandpampers, know that I was only ONE vote. 

[BigO]

3 minutes ago, Greenseed4 said:

Yeah. She’s 77 now, which makes you either delusional or gross. She was born in 1940, right about the time a majority of your team was peaking in the AFL. 

Before you reach for your keyboard and piss your Grandpampers, know that I was only ONE vote. 

Gee you can count! Amazin

[New York Mick]

Holy sh*t do Jet fans hate Marino that much?

[BigO]

5 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

Holy sh*t do Jet fans hate Marino that much?

I didn’t take that into consideration. Perhaps I should have went With Neil O’Donell ?

[Long Island Leprechaun]

2 minutes ago, BigO said:

I didn’t take that into consideration. Perhaps I should have went With Neil O’Donell ?

Marino was a great pick. Wish I had him.

[BigO]

Just now, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Marino was a great pick. Wish I had him.

? Passing on him was the Biggest mistake this organization ever made. You’d go far in this thing with Marino. Unfortunately I researched to much and picked guys I never even heard of but were considered folk lore by the old time experts. 

[Obrien2Toon]

Thorpe ran the 100 in 10 seconds

thats bo Jackson territory 

[New York Mick]

Just now, Obrien2Toon said:

Thorpe ran the 100 in 10 seconds

thats bo Jackson territory 

That’s faster then Jim Brown

[Long Island Leprechaun]

6 minutes ago, BigO said:

? Passing on him was the Biggest mistake this organization ever made. You’d go far in this thing with Marino. Unfortunately I researched to much and picked guys I never even heard of but were considered folk lore by the old time experts. 

Agreed. And I know what you mean, but once we got past around pick 300 you have to dig deep for guys. I'll be the first to admit that Cornell Green and Louis Wright are not super elite corners. But they're not dog meat either. I think there is an inherent bias toward newer players -- first, because people have heard of them and seen them play, and second because today's players are bigger and stronger generally than the older guys. There are certainly exceptions. Weinmeister and Thorpe were risky moves -- not based on talent but based on configuring them in the modern game. Anyway, you fielded a very good team and I don't think the score fairly reflects that. Alan Page was a beast, and so was Julius Peppers in his prime. I personally feel Swann is overrated, but he did have one outstanding SB performance... otherwise his numbers are merely above average... never put up more than 800 yards in a season. Allworth was a great receiver.

Louis Wright

·  5× Pro Bowl (1977–1979, 1983, 1985)

·  2× AP First-team All-Pro (1978, 1979)

·  3× NEA First-team All-Pro (1978, 1979, 1983)

·  3× PFW First-Team All-Pro (1978, 1979, 1984)

·  Football Digest NFL Defensive Back of the Year (1977)

·  NFL 1970s All-Decade Team

Cornell Green

·  Super Bowl champion (VI)

·  5× Pro Bowl (1965, 1966, 1967, 1971, 1972)

·  3× First-team All-Pro (1966, 1967, 1969)

·  Second-team All-Pro (1968)

·  Dallas Cowboys 25th Anniversary Team

[Long Island Leprechaun]

4 minutes ago, New York Mick said:

That’s faster then Jim Brown

Show me Thorpe's football stats... the decathalon is not pro football.

[HessStation]

Man...looks like O’s old timer team just ain’t gonna cut it for people. I’m his only vote?

[BigO]

53 minutes ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

Agreed. And I know what you mean, but once we got past around pick 300 you have to dig deep for guys. I'll be the first to admit that Cornell Green and Louis Wright are not super elite corners. But they're not dog meat either. I think there is an inherent bias toward newer players -- first, because people have heard of them and seen them play, and second because today's players are bigger and stronger generally than the older guys. There are certainly exceptions. Weinmeister and Thorpe were risky moves -- not based on talent but based on configuring them in the modern game. Anyway, you fielded a very good team and I don't think the score fairly reflects that. Alan Page was a beast, and so was Julius Peppers in his prime. I personally feel Swann is overrated, but he did have one outstanding SB performance... otherwise his numbers are merely above average... never put up more than 800 yards in a season. Allworth was a great receiver.

Louis Wright

·  5× Pro Bowl (1977–1979, 1983, 1985)

·  2× AP First-team All-Pro (1978, 1979)

·  3× NEA First-team All-Pro (1978, 1979, 1983)

·  3× PFW First-Team All-Pro (1978, 1979, 1984)

·  Football Digest NFL Defensive Back of the Year (1977)

·  NFL 1970s All-Decade Team

Cornell Green

·  Super Bowl champion (VI)

·  5× Pro Bowl (1965, 1966, 1967, 1971, 1972)

·  3× First-team All-Pro (1966, 1967, 1969)

·  Second-team All-Pro (1968)

·  Dallas Cowboys 25th Anniversary Team

Appreciate it. I applied talent in accordance to the era. I didn’t look into ‘configuring’ anyone into ‘today’s game. That wasn’t the aim to my understanding. It was supposed to be an All LEGEND team not an All today team. For that, let’s do it all over and do it by decade. Weinmeister, George, Stydahar were the TOP elite dominate players at their time. Arnie was the Joe Greene - George was Butkus, Stydahar was the top RT, and Parker, who protected Johnny U, was the Munoz of his era. Even many of my other selections BELONG in the HOF.  And Swan, IMO, was underrated. Chuck Noll ran a strict run first offense with Franco and Blier which limited Swann’s exposure. Not sure if you saw the Steelers in the 70’s and 80’s, but Swann was fearless and opened up their whole offense. He singlehandedly beat Dallas in the SB with 2 of the greatest catches EVER. Swann played in a totally different era than say A. Brown or Rice. He played a different role in their offense and he was the 3rd WR I picked- all three were HOF WR’s. From my perspective, I picked the best talented team according to the positions I felt were more important with the exception of Thorpe at RB which I have a soft spot for since I know much about him. 

QB, DL, LT, CB C, WR, S, RB, LB, G

[BigO]

2 minutes ago, HessStation said:

Man...looks like O’s old timer team just ain’t gonna cut it for people. I’m his only vote?

You just want my vote ? 

[HessStation]

1 minute ago, BigO said:

You just want my vote ? 

If I cared I wouldn't be giving my opinion on anything 

[BigO]

3 hours ago, HessStation said:

Plus Marino throwing to Berry, maybe greatest hands ever, Alworth the ultimate weapon yards per catch and then Swann to make all the amazing tough ones. I don’t think Lep’s DBs would fair well. In contrast Willy Brown on Brown and Tunnell on Winslow could potentially neutralize the two stars well enough. Match up wise I’m really befuddled at the lopsided votes  

I think that a western Beef OL with Campbell blew people away and I don’t doubt that run game BUT my DL was ELITE and no way was it given ample consideration. Campbell is NOT Gale Sayers, Barry Sanders, or Eric Dickerson. Great runner but not a breakaway back like those guys. And Thorpe was lightning fast. I guess it’s hard for 20 something’s to think out the box. 

[nycdan]

The secret to enjoying this is to try not to care too much.  Otherwise it will get frustrating.  

[nycdan]

4 minutes ago, BigO said:

I think that a western Beef OL with Campbell blew people away and I don’t doubt that run game BUT my DL was ELITE and no way was it given ample consideration. Campbell is NOT Gale Sayers, Barry Sanders, or Eric Dickerson. Great runner but not a breakaway back like those guys. And Thorpe was lightning fast. I guess it’s hard for 20 something’s to think out the box. 

See that's where we see things differently.  Campbell in his first five or so years was better than any of those guys.  Just about as fast and so much stronger.  He ran through, over and around great players with equal ease and was as close to an unstoppable force as the game has seen outside of Jim Brown.  IF he lasted another 2-3 years at his early clip, he would have been compared to Brown as GOAT IMO.