Le'Veon Bell speaks on Adam Gase, Sam Darnold. Spoiler Alert: GASE MAN NOT BAD.

[Jetluv58]

On 7/15/2020 at 10:12 PM, DLJ said:

I really needed to know what rapper LeVeon Bell had to say

Is rapper a bad thing?

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

If we finish 10-6 and win the AFC East and host a home playoff game, I'm not going to complain if we're #18 in offense.

We're not going to be 10-6, win the AFC East and hosting a home playoff game if we're 18th in Offense.

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

Darnold clearly wasn't himself the first few games back from mono.  Darnold doesn't get mono, the Jets make the playoffs.

Non-Issue in 2020.

If Sam misses time, again, in 2020...that would be an issue.

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

This is a 5-11 offense led by a 10-6 quarterback.  In a few years, we can have a great set of WR's and a Top 5 RB.  This year, not so much.

Completely disagree.  This is an average talented Offense led by a supposedly elite QB and a supposed Offensive genius Head Coach. 

Expectations of it being an 8-8 type Offense that is average ranked in production should not be asking too much from this player group.

[SAR I]

16 minutes ago, Warfish said:

We're not going to be 10-6, win the AFC East and hosting a home playoff game if we're 18th in Offense.

Our schedule actually says this is likely.  We play some tough defenses this year and will win/lose some close games, score 20 if we're lucky.  And when we play a weak defense, we'll score 30 and look pretty good.  It's a year where the AFCE isn't going to be won by some dominant elite team.  The AFCE is now the AFCS.

18 minutes ago, Warfish said:

If Sam misses time, again, in 2020...that would be an issue.

Yes.  And in a COVID season, who knows what may happen?  We could lose Darnold for 3 weeks or every team in the division could lose their QB for 3 weeks, every opponent we face could lose their kicker and their punter, it's going to be very unpredictable.  

19 minutes ago, Warfish said:

Completely disagree.  This is an average talented Offense led by a supposedly elite QB and a supposed Offensive genius Head Coach. 

Just to level-set, I don't think Adam Gase is some offensive genius, I haven't seen it.  Gase has proven he's a good head coach and he's proven he can improvise on offense with limited talent.  The jury is still out on what he does when everyone's healthy (hopefully possible) and we have a good roster (still incomplete).  I don't think Gase is great; I just think he accomplished some great things in his first season and deserves more time and a better roster to see if he can take us deep in the playoffs.

SAR I

 

[#27TheDominator]

On 7/15/2020 at 6:43 PM, SAR I said:

•  
• Recruits and hires Gregg Williams.
•  

This one is my favorite.  Did he recruit and hire Gregg Williams before or after they offered the job to Matt Rhule, who turned it down because he wanted to pick his own coordinators and didn't want to be stuck with Williams? 

[Warfish]

11 minutes ago, SAR I said:

....and deserves more time and a better roster to see if he can take us deep in the playoffs.

Is this a debate at this point?  Is anyone sane saying that Gase should be fire today?  Because I don't think they are. 

Gase as our Coach is a know, a given, for 2020.

He IS the Head Coach in 2020.  That's his "more time".

Our roster has been materially improved for FY2020.  That's his "better roster".

So he's getting his more time and his better roster.  

That is exactly what we will be judging him on going forward: how he produces with this more time and better players.

[#27TheDominator]

On 7/15/2020 at 7:44 PM, Grandy said:

Don't forget the screens carried over from Miami.

The premise of these tweets is idiotic.  It is counterproductive to do something 43% of the time because defenses will expect it?  Won't that make things easier for the team the other 57% of the time?  Does this guy understand percentages?  

[SAR I]

2 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

This one is my favorite.  Did he recruit and hire Gregg Williams before or after they offered the job to Matt Rhule, who turned it down because he wanted to pick his own coordinators and didn't want to be stuck with Williams? 

Adam Gase hired Gregg Williams.

SAR I

[SAR I]

2 hours ago, Warfish said:

Is this a debate at this point?  Is anyone sane saying that Gase should be fire today?  Because I don't think they are. 

Gase as our Coach is a know, a given, for 2020.

He IS the Head Coach in 2020.  That's his "more time".

Our roster has been materially improved for FY2020.  That's his "better roster".

So he's getting his more time and his better roster.  

That is exactly what we will be judging him on going forward: how he produces with this more time and better players.

I don't think many (any?) NFL head coaches are going to get fired this year.  COVID is an unprecedented situation and is going to interfere with many programs.  So prepare for Gase in '20 and '21 regardless of '20 results.

Doesn't matter to me as I saw enough in '19 to know he's here for the long haul, but just to set your expectations...

SAR I

[Paradis]

Idc if he's a douchebag or a sweetheart.

Show me Double-Yous

[Jet Nut]

5 hours ago, Warfish said:

What I find interesting is it's the biggest "OMG we're so great, Darnold is great, Gase is great, Mims is great, etc." folks who, when asked about actual results, always default back to "well, we can;t expect wins or playoffs or passing TD's or rankings, we're not very good".

Our roster is absolutely on-par, talent wise, with other middle-level AFC East teams.  We're not the Chiefs, true.  But we are the equal of most other teams, talent wise.

Have disagree.  Losing Anderson for Permian is an unknown situation.  Hope Perriman is a wash or better I have no idea and Mims is a rookie playing one of the hardest positions to transition from college to the NFL.  
Our roster may be on a par or even slightly better than Miami but to me they have a ways to go to match the Bills

Just as I don’t see a top 15 offense for those reasons.  Nor do o care.  You can win without a top 15 offense.  I don’t care who the QB and HC are if the talent isn’t there your can’t rank high

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, SAR I said:

So prepare for Gase in '20 and '21 regardless of '20 results.

I don't see an outcome where the Johnsons would fire Gase prior to 2021, so I agree.

Where we may disagree is on if him getting 2021 will be deserved.

[Warfish]

1 minute ago, Jet Nut said:

Losing Anderson for Permian is an unknown situation.

Anderson as a #1 WR was a ~800 yard, 5-6 TD type player here.

Perriman's only decent year to-date, as a #3 WR, was <700 yards, with 6 TD's.

Unless Perriman breaks out, it's reasonable to predict this as a wash at best till shown otherwise.

The difference maker will be Mims.  Perriman/Crowder is one thing, Perriman/Crowder/Mims should be better.

[southtown24th]

On 7/15/2020 at 2:18 PM, Charlie Brown said:

This is the KEY line!

If Bell felt this way what do you think Sam Darnold thinks!

that's wild

[Warfish]

22 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

You can win without a top 15 offense. 

Can you?

Lets look at last year's playoff teams and see:

----------------------
Kansas City Chiefs - 6th in Yards, 5th in Points.
San Francisco 49'ers - 4th in Yards, 2nd in Points
-----------------------
Green Bay Packers - 18th in Yards, 15th in Points
Tennessee Titans - 12th in Yards, 10th in Points
----------------------
Houston Texans - 14th in Yards, 13th in Points
Seattle Seahawks - 8th in Yards, 9th in Points
Baltimore Ravens - 2nd in Yards, 1st in Points
Minnesota Vikings - 16th in Yards, 8th in Points
----------------------
Philadelphia Eagles - 14th in Yards, 12th in Points
New Orleans Saints - 9th in Yards, 3rd in Points
New England Patriots - 15th in Yards, 7th in Points
Buffalo Bills - 24th in Yards, 23rd in Points
----------------------

So lets see, in 2019 we have 12 total playoff teams.

Only one (Buffalo) had an Offense rated higher than 15 in both Yards and Points, and they were eliminated in the first round.

Only two (Vikings and Packers) has one (Yards or Points) ranking higher than 15.  Vikings at 16 in points.  Packers at 18th in Yards.

Nine of the 12 playoff teams were top 15 in BOTH Yards and Points.

A few good Offenses missed the postseason, Dallas (1st in Yards, 6th in Points) finished 8-8, Tampa Bay (3rd in Yards, 3rd in Points) finished 7-9.  Atlanta and the Rams also were generally good On O and missed (at 7-9 and 9-7 respectively).

I don't see alot of contenders in those lower 15+ or 20+ Offensive rankings.   

[Jet Nut]

4 hours ago, Warfish said:

Anderson as a #1 WR was a ~800 yard, 5-6 TD type player here.

Perriman's only decent year to-date, as a #3 WR, was <700 yards, with 6 TD's.

Unless Perriman breaks out, it's reasonable to predict this as a wash at best till shown otherwise.

The difference maker will be Mims.  Perriman/Crowder is one thing, Perriman/Crowder/Mims should be better.

ANd Perriman numbers were?  On a team where his QB threw for well over 5,000 yards.  A historic year yardage wise.  hopefully its a wash but career numbers say it isnt.  No matter how much Anderson wasn't a true no. 1, nothing about this says its a wash until proven otherwise

Agree, Mims is the wildcard and can be the player than upgrades the unit providing Perriman holds up his end of the bargain 

[Jet Nut]

4 hours ago, Warfish said:

Can you?

Lets look at last year's playoff teams and see:

----------------------
Kansas City Chiefs - 6th in Yards, 5th in Points.
San Francisco 49'ers - 4th in Yards, 2nd in Points
-----------------------
Green Bay Packers - 18th in Yards, 15th in Points
Tennessee Titans - 12th in Yards, 10th in Points
----------------------
Houston Texans - 14th in Yards, 13th in Points
Seattle Seahawks - 8th in Yards, 9th in Points
Baltimore Ravens - 2nd in Yards, 1st in Points
Minnesota Vikings - 16th in Yards, 8th in Points
----------------------
Philadelphia Eagles - 14th in Yards, 12th in Points
New Orleans Saints - 9th in Yards, 3rd in Points
New England Patriots - 15th in Yards, 7th in Points
Buffalo Bills - 24th in Yards, 23rd in Points
----------------------

So lets see, in 2019 we have 12 total playoff teams.

Only one (Buffalo) had an Offense rated higher than 15 in both Yards and Points, and they were eliminated in the first round.

Only two (Vikings and Packers) has one (Yards or Points) ranking higher than 15.  Vikings at 16 in points.  Packers at 18th in Yards.

Nine of the 12 playoff teams were top 15 in BOTH Yards and Points.

A few good Offenses missed the postseason, Dallas (1st in Yards, 6th in Points) finished 8-8, Tampa Bay (3rd in Yards, 3rd in Points) finished 7-9.  Atlanta and the Rams also were generally good On O and missed (at 7-9 and 9-7 respectively).

I don't see alot of contenders in those lower 15+ or 20+ Offensive rankings.   

I was thinking the last time made the playoffs we went to back AFGCECGs with a bottom to the league offense.

Ill stand by my comment, I'm thinking more than just one season.  Yes, the league is now geared towards offense so I guess things have changed.  But 2 years ago the Bears were in.  Im sure I can find others if I look numbers up.  But a really good D and thats the rub, can win

Beyond that I'm wondering why the HC has to have a top 15 offense and win X amounts of games.  Hes a HC.  Does he have to have a top 15 defense too?  I mean does anyone care when BB wins and Tom wins in shootouts, does anyone blame BB?  Did anyone complain about BB when the Pats lost in a shoot out with the Eagles?

[Sonny Werblin]

On 7/15/2020 at 5:18 PM, Charlie Brown said:

This is the KEY line!

If Bell felt this way what do you think Sam Darnold thinks!

Please. He’s comparing it to pitts offense which is had the sophistication of a playground offense.

[Sonny Werblin]

18 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

The premise of these tweets is idiotic.  It is counterproductive to do something 43% of the time because defenses will expect it?  Won't that make things easier for the team the other 57% of the time?  Does this guy understand percentages?  

Agreed. They are Obviously students of the Vezzini school

 

 

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

I was thinking the last time made the playoffs we went to back AFGCECGs with a bottom to the league offense.

The Jets "bottom of the league offense" was 13/11 in 2010.

[SAR I]

6 hours ago, Warfish said:

I don't see an outcome where the Johnsons would fire Gase prior to 2021, so I agree.

Where we may disagree is on if him getting 2021 will be deserved.

Yes, that remains to be seen.  The big factor in that will be Sam Darnold and his agent.  2021 being Darnold's 4th season, if he's not feeling he can thrive in our offense he could push Gase out the door.

SAR I

[Warfish]

2 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

I was thinking the last time made the playoffs we went to back AFGCECGs with a bottom to the league offense.

Ill stand by my comment, I'm thinking more than just one season.  Yes, the league is now geared towards offense so I guess things have changed.  But 2 years ago the Bears were in.  Im sure I can find others if I look numbers up.  But a really good D and thats the rub, can win

We've had really good Defenses.  We didn't win (mostly).  But sure, it could be a route to success as well, in theory.  

Quote

Beyond that I'm wondering why the HC has to have a top 15 offense and win X amounts of games.  Hes a HC.  Does he have to have a top 15 defense too?  I mean does anyone care when BB wins and Tom wins in shootouts, does anyone blame BB?  Did anyone complain about BB when the Pats lost in a shoot out with the Eagles?

Generally, people evaluate things in one of two ways.

-analytically

-the "eye" test

I prefer A.  I'd say you prefer B.

I judge my Head Coaches by what they produce, wins (vs. losses), playoff berths (vs. losing seasons), and offensive and defensive production ranking and stats.

I don't really do or get the "well, I think he's doing ok, with this caveat, and that caveat, because my eye tells me this or that" feel thing.

You either do or you don't.  You score or you don't.  You either win or you don't.  I'm too old to wait for the guys who need their lack of scoring and lack of winning explained or rationalized away.

[GREENBEAN]

On 7/15/2020 at 5:20 PM, ljr said:

 

It would be cool to get more details on what about it & why this is the case

I think it has something to do with being predicated on the OL blocking.  Once that's taken care of it gets much easier I'm sure.   

[Jet Nut]

9 hours ago, #27TheDominator said:

The Jets "bottom of the league offense" was 13/11 in 2010.

I guess they just seemed like a bottom of the league offense given their passing issues.  

[Jet Nut]

8 hours ago, Warfish said:

Generally, people evaluate things in one of two ways.

-analytically

-the "eye" test

I prefer A.  I'd say you prefer B.

I judge my Head Coaches by what they produce, wins (vs. losses), playoff berths (vs. losing seasons), and offensive and defensive production ranking and stats.

I don't really do or get the "well, I think he's doing ok, with this caveat, and that caveat, because my eye tells me this or that" feel thing.

You either do or you don't.  You score or you don't.  You either win or you don't.  I'm too old to wait for the guys who need their lack of scoring and lack of winning explained or rationalized away

[Jet Nut]

8 hours ago, Warfish said:

We've had really good Defenses.  We didn't win (mostly).  But sure, it could be a route to success as well, in theory.  

Generally, people evaluate things in one of two ways.

-analytically

-the "eye" test

I prefer A.  I'd say you prefer B.

I judge my Head Coaches by what they produce, wins (vs. losses), playoff berths (vs. losing seasons), and offensive and defensive production ranking and stats.

I don't really do or get the "well, I think he's doing ok, with this caveat, and that caveat, because my eye tells me this or that" feel thing.

You either do or you don't.  You score or you don't.  You either win or you don't.  I'm too old to wait for the guys who need their lack of scoring and lack of winning explained or rationalized away.

Well I don’t see the game as one played in a vacuum that can be viewed by numbers only.  A OC, a team is not going to run the same with its 3rd or 4th string QB.  Some can call it excuses but that’s wrong.  Fact Is 4th String QBs, on the practice squad, are there for a reason.  If you don’t look at reasons why an O struggled or prospered what’s the point or the fun