Do you think Saleh would fire his best friends brother?

[choon328]

This is why you can't just blame the OC. ZW is just not able to read defenses at a high level in game and it costs him missed opportunities and turnovers. I believe that in the classroom he can give you all of the correct answers and know exactly what he's doing but it's a whole other thing to do it live with a defense in front of you. 

 

[Stark]

14 hours ago, Mario said:

Is that what you are telling ownership if you are Robert Saleh? 
 

Can he not be developed or can you not develop him? You told me to draft him. You told me he had all this potential. You told me how smart he was. You told me he’s a great athlete. You told me he studies is ass off. 

Jesus.....

 

 

[Stark]

53 minutes ago, choon328 said:

This is why you can't just blame the OC. ZW is just not able to read defenses at a high level in game and it costs him missed opportunities and turnovers. I believe that in the classroom he can give you all of the correct answers and know exactly what he's doing but it's a whole other thing to do it live with a defense in front of you. 

 

im not linking the 2 but this is what I said about Jeff Smith... some guys are just not "gamers".

 

Zach may be able to do some things well at times but just way too many head scratching decisions and really bad decisions. 

[Mario]

1 hour ago, choon328 said:

This is why you can't just blame the OC. ZW is just not able to read defenses at a high level in game and it costs him missed opportunities and turnovers. I believe that in the classroom he can give you all of the correct answers and know exactly what he's doing but it's a whole other thing to do it live with a defense in front of you. 

 

Is it just me or if he throws it to Wilson there the LB may pick it. 

[Claymation]

3 hours ago, Trotter said:

I agree with you on the position coaches but also believe the growth of Zach or whoever the qb is should be tied to calabrese - that is his job.

you want to nick lafleur for the hire - I have no issue with that but when the majority of the offense is growing and performing except for 1 position, I just don’t think that falls solely on the oc

Moore and Mims have been alienated by LaFleur. The OL is almost as bad as it was last year. TEs are better but that has more to do with talent than his tutelage. They are scoring more points per game, so that's something he can hang his hat on. Mike hasn't been good.

[Claymation]

 

[rex-n-effect]

Zach has problems but I don't see the OC, or coaching staff in general, doing a lot to scheme around his deficiencies and strengths. He needs an offense he can run more quickly so he can make quick reads and get the ball out--a lot more like college. I get this is a problem for the defensive and Saleh's whole system because it doesn't give them longer breaks but how much time off the field do they get with these three and outs? The team could certainly change tempo over a drive with more runs. The Jets are in the bottom half of the league in rushing attempts. It feels a lot like Saleh and his staff want to do what they want and force players to fit their mold without any give to develop a playbook that makes the most out of the players. 

I don't think LaFleur's job is at risk, especially when the team still has a winning record. 

[Paradis]

17 hours ago, Mario said:

I agree, but part of his job was to develop Zach Wilson. 
 

You can't develop what isn't there. 

[Paradis]

3 minutes ago, rex-n-effect said:

Zach has problems but I don't see the OC, or coaching staff in general, doing a lot to scheme around his deficiencies and strengths. 

This is empirically/categorically/factually wrong. They've watered it down immensely and hid the issues with a good running game. 

[Hex]

13 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

 

 

 

2021-2022 Offense when Zach Wilson starts:  18.6 points per game

2021-2022 Offense when anyone else starts:  22.2 points per game

Yea because as you guys always say football is a one-man game

[Claymation]

2 hours ago, Paradis said:

You can't develop what isn't there. 

True, but if you hired someone to do a job and they didn't do it, should they keep his/her job?

[Paradis]

16 minutes ago, Claymation said:

True, but if you hired someone to do a job and they didn't do it, should they keep his/her job?

no, cut bait and move on.... but if I was the QB coach i would sue you for unjust termination. 

no QB coach can force the QB to read the field. Lead a horse to water. 

[Jetsfan80]

57 minutes ago, Hex said:

Yea because as you guys always say football is a one-man game

That's the fun part about numbers.  As sample size grows, patterns develop.  The team around the QB remains the same yet the other, sh*tty QB's on the roster still put up more points.  Meaning you can't explain that away by saying the rest of the team has "failed" Zach Wilson.  

[Embrace the Suck]

20 hours ago, Bugg said:

Can't make chicken salad out of chicken turds. 

Sounds like a chicken sh*t answer. Coaches are there to help players get better by....... coaching. They aren't there just to take credit for the players who are already good while ignoring the others. While it's true you can only do so much they drafted ZW with input from the coaching staff. MLF wasn't married to ZW at the end of a shotgun barrel. If they didn't want him they should have spoken up, and drafted someone else.

[rex-n-effect]

4 hours ago, Paradis said:

This is empirically/categorically/factually wrong. They've watered it down immensely and hid the issues with a good running game. 

Watering down the playbook isn't the same as developing a scheme around the QB. It's asking him to run bland versions of plays he's not good at running.

The Jets are in the back half of the league in rushing attempts and statistically in the back half for virtually all stats except touchdowns and fumbles. With Hall out of the picture to make big plays, the Jets aren't running the ball much. On Sunday the Jets only ran 15 times for 51 yards--about 40% of the attempts and yards for NE. 

[Scotty Wooty Doo Doo]

4 more points equals a clicking offense? Sad ... how many wins were in those extra 4 points?

 
2021-2022 Offense when Zach Wilson starts:  18.6 points per game
2021-2022 Offense when anyone else starts:  22.2 points per game

Sent from my SM-G996U using JetNation.com mobile app

[Scotty Wooty Doo Doo]

If you hire a first time HC ,it's idiotic to hire a first time OC and tie all that to a rookie QB. Now add a first time QB coach. This is what you get .

Sent from my SM-G996U using JetNation.com mobile app

[Paradis]

30 minutes ago, rex-n-effect said:

Watering down the playbook isn't the same as developing a scheme around the QB. It's asking him to run bland versions of plays he's not good at running.

The Jets are in the back half of the league in rushing attempts and statistically in the back half for virtually all stats except touchdowns and fumbles. With Hall out of the picture to make big plays, the Jets aren't running the ball much. On Sunday the Jets only ran 15 times for 51 yards--about 40% of the attempts and yards for NE. 

Which tells you what the issue is (in theory if you trust your CS, which for now, I do).. it means the issue is the QB can’t do the things you’re speaking of. He can’t throw outside vs man. I’m serious. He’s not able to anticipate throwing windows. Half the playbook is useless right now. 

[Jetsfan80]

34 minutes ago, Scotty Wooty Doo Doo said:

4 more points equals a clicking offense? Sad ... how many wins were in those extra 4 points?

 

lmao.  4 points' difference is pretty significant in the NFL.  It would essentially be the difference between the # 16/17 offense in the NFL and the # 26 offense according to the current PPG rankings.  

And it's even more meaningful when those other QB's are Joe Flacco's corpse, a late round journeyman and Josh Johnson, who has been on something like 16 different teams (including 4 non-NFL teams) over the last decade+. 

The Jets purposely didn't put good QB's behind Wilson on the depth chart and yet Wilson, a # 2 overall pick, can't outperform them.  Sad.

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, rex-n-effect said:

Watering down the playbook isn't the same as developing a scheme around the QB. It's asking him to run bland versions of plays he's not good at running.

The Jets are in the back half of the league in rushing attempts and statistically in the back half for virtually all stats except touchdowns and fumbles. With Hall out of the picture to make big plays, the Jets aren't running the ball much. On Sunday the Jets only ran 15 times for 51 yards--about 40% of the attempts and yards for NE. 

What does the scheme that helps Zach Wilson look like exactly?

[rex-n-effect]

49 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

What does the scheme that helps Zach Wilson look like exactly?

See if Barry Sanders still has a good 40 time

[Matt39]

6 hours ago, rex-n-effect said:

Zach has problems but I don't see the OC, or coaching staff in general, doing a lot to scheme around his deficiencies and strengths. He needs an offense he can run more quickly so he can make quick reads and get the ball out--a lot more like college. I get this is a problem for the defensive and Saleh's whole system because it doesn't give them longer breaks but how much time off the field do they get with these three and outs? The team could certainly change tempo over a drive with more runs. The Jets are in the bottom half of the league in rushing attempts. It feels a lot like Saleh and his staff want to do what they want and force players to fit their mold without any give to develop a playbook that makes the most out of the players. 

I don't think LaFleur's job is at risk, especially when the team still has a winning record. 

Wilson's game in college was stand 15 yards behind the line of scrimmage in a tuxedo and throw deep balls.

[Jetsfan80]

55 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

What does the scheme that helps Zach Wilson look like exactly?

There was nothing wrong with the scheme when people were screaming "4-0!!!!" all day every day.  Suddenly the scheme sucks.  Weird.  

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

7 hours ago, Claymation said:

 

Honestly, the teams protection isn’t lasting for those long developing routes. It breaks down before they even reach where they’re going. That’s one of the reasons his rating is so bad vs quick. Among many other things. 

Said it before but they need to go full on dink and dunk offense. 15 yard throws max. Lefluer can def be better too. 

[GreenFish]

8 hours ago, Mario said:

Is it just me or if he throws it to Wilson there the LB may pick it. 

I don't think so. Especially not with Zach's arm

 

8 hours ago, Claymation said:

 

Zach is better from the pocket than when he rolls out and tries to create magic. Aside from that off balance over throw that got INTed, he was mostly good from the pocket even when pressured.

[T0mShane]

37 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

There was nothing wrong with the scheme when people were screaming "4-0!!!!" all day every day.  Suddenly the scheme sucks.  Weird.  

If Saleh consciously wanted to push Zach Wilson to the brink of insanity, activating Streveler off the practice squad and elevating Mike White to #2 right before going up against Belichick and the Bills (then, the BYE) was the perfect way to do it. I’m not a big conspiracy guy, but if they’re watching the film every Monday and they’re watching Zach hijack literally every passing play with his weirdo spazz Big Sky Conference bullsh*t, maybe causing a meltdown wouldn’t be the worst thing for everyone involved. 

[rex-n-effect]

3 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Wilson's game in college was stand 15 yards behind the line of scrimmage in a tuxedo and throw deep balls.

 

Maybe he needs a classier uniform?

 

[Claymation]

16 hours ago, Paradis said:

no, cut bait and move on.... but if I was the QB coach i would sue you for unjust termination. 

no QB coach can force the QB to read the field. Lead a horse to water. 

You (the QB Coach) signed the contract, you didn't deliver on your job on developing a QB. 

[Claymation]

12 hours ago, GreenFish said:

I don't think so. Especially not with Zach's arm

 

Zach is better from the pocket than when he rolls out and tries to create magic. Aside from that off balance over throw that got INTed, he was mostly good from the pocket even when pressured.

Zach needs to learn how to step up in the pocket. I guess LaFleur and Calabrese would rather drink Vanilla Chai Lattes than actually do their job.

[Ron Rico]

15 hours ago, rex-n-effect said:

Watering down the playbook isn't the same as developing a scheme around the QB. It's asking him to run bland versions of plays he's not good at running.

 

He's not good at it, or he's uncomfortable doing it? Huge difference. 

[Ron Rico]

20 minutes ago, Claymation said:

You (the QB Coach) signed the contract, you didn't deliver on your job on developing a QB. 

This just in, appointed stars and primadonnas don't always listen to the coach.

[choon328]

15 hours ago, Scotty Wooty Doo Doo said:

4 more points equals a clicking offense? Sad ... how many wins were in those extra 4 points?

 

Sent from my SM-G996U using JetNation.com mobile app
 

 

If the Broncos averaged 4 more pts per game they'd be 6-2 instead of 3-5. 4 pts matters

[choon328]

15 hours ago, Scotty Wooty Doo Doo said:

If you hire a first time HC ,it's idiotic to hire a first time OC and tie all that to a rookie QB. Now add a first time QB coach. This is what you get .

Sent from my SM-G996U using JetNation.com mobile app
 

I'm sorry but you can't have Mike White throw for 400 yds in his first ever start for the same exact HC and OC or Josh Johnson go 29/45 334 yds and 3 tds in his limited play for that same HC and OC and say that they're not capable of coaching a QB to have success in this system. ZW is the issue. You can't have statistical success with every other QB that has played for this OC in the last 25 games besides ZW and not come to the conclusion that it's Wilson who is the issue. 

[choon328]

13 hours ago, Zachtomims47 said:

Honestly, the teams protection isn’t lasting for those long developing routes. It breaks down before they even reach where they’re going. That’s one of the reasons his rating is so bad vs quick. Among many other things. 

Said it before but they need to go full on dink and dunk offense. 15 yard throws max. Lefluer can def be better too. 

Problem here is that ZW is wildly inconsistent on short throws. The throwing windows are smaller the closer you are to the LOS and I don't think they trust him to make the correct read pre or post snap. Longer plays are easier to diagnose for a QB bc there is typically more separation and more room for error. If you go back to last year when Johnson and White played they had a much different game plan then what ZW was getting. They made quick decisive throws and utilized the HB's much more in the passing game. The game plan for ZW is completely different bc of his accuracy and his on field football IQ limitations. 

[Claymation]

23 hours ago, choon328 said:

This is why you can't just blame the OC. ZW is just not able to read defenses at a high level in game and it costs him missed opportunities and turnovers. I believe that in the classroom he can give you all of the correct answers and know exactly what he's doing but it's a whole other thing to do it live with a defense in front of you. 

 

Hey, it's a slant/flat play to start a game.

Maybe, just maybe you don't F***ing call the same slant/flat play to start a game. I will hand to Zach, he didn't throw it to the slant for a pick 6.