Zach “reluctant” to start again at QB

[Flea Flicking Frank]

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

There is no evidence that actually makes any difference.  Look no further than our own Jets the past 13 years, and the Washington Commander the past 20 years. 

"If we only hope it gets a little worse, something HAS to change!".  Frustrated Fans Everywhere.

Except nope, it doesn't.  It really doesn't.  There is no (on field) bottom to which Owners become whole new people and suddenly start doing it all correctly, lol.  

Two points:

Fans here have been flogging this "I want X to go elsewhere and prove he was really awesome so **** the Jets for screwing up X while he was here" meme for literal decades.

Again, Sanchez, Geno, Darnold, Hackenberg even, soon to be Wilson.

None of them proved great elsewhere (Geno the closest, 8 full years and several teams later), none of the "showed Woody how wrong he was", and Woody, doubtless, never cared in the first place because he's not the hands-on, QB-picking tyrant fans want him to be.  He's a bad Owner, who picks bad GM's, who draft bad QB's and pair them with rookie D-Co Head Coaches, and the results, frankly, are predictable.  The Jets have done this several times now over more than a decade, Woody isn't "learning" from all that now, just because of Zach Wilson.

I think Hess finally got to that point with Kotite where he brought in Parcells, but I do agree that its very rare. If it were to happen with woody, I think it would take something magnificent to rattle him enough to change his ways.

I also largely agree that Woody isnt learning at all, and his winning is not his biggest motivator. I think he would like to win, but I think its a distant 2nd on his motiviation list for owning the Jets, maybe even 3rd or 4th

[Warfish]

2 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

I think Hess finally got to that point with Kotite where he brought in Parcells, but I do agree that its very rare.

One's impending death might be a factor I suppose.

2 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

If it were to happen with woody, I think it would take something magnificent to rattle him enough to change his ways.

I also largely agree that Woody isnt learning at all, and his winning is not his biggest motivator. I think he would like to win, but I think its a distant 2nd on his motiviation list for owning the Jets, maybe even 3rd or 4th

Woody seems to not trust himself, as he has gone outside his own circle to get advice/direction on several of his recent hires (i.e. the past decade or so).  Peyton Manning, the ex-GM's, consultants, etc.

One one hand it's sorta admirable an uber-rich guy would try and get some help from actual knowledgeable people, but it sure hasn't worked out very well so far.

[Matt39]

4 minutes ago, Warfish said:

One's impending death might be a factor I suppose.

Woody seems to not trust himself, as he has gone outside his own circle to get advice/direction on several of his recent hires (i.e. the past decade or so).  Peyton Manning, the ex-GM's, consultants, etc.

One one hand it's sorta admirable an uber-rich guy would try and get some help from actual knowledgeable people, but it sure hasn't worked out very well so far.

What? How? He hired Korn Ferry with the condition that the new GM kept Rex. It’s why so many people cancelled on the Jets during that cycle. 

[Warfish]

Just now, Matt39 said:

What? How? He hired Korn Ferry with the condition that the new GM kept Rex. It’s why so many people cancelled on the Jets during that cycle. 

The structure (till just recently) where HC and GM both are some odd sort of co-equals was 100% part of Woody's problem, as were his several "fire one but mandate keeping the other" moves.  We've all been critical of that for years.

Happily, at least under JD, that issue was corrected.  Saleh works for JD.  Not for Woody.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

5 minutes ago, Warfish said:

One's impending death might be a factor I suppose.

Woody seems to not trust himself, as he has gone outside his own circle to get advice/direction on several of his recent hires (i.e. the past decade or so).  Peyton Manning, the ex-GM's, consultants, etc.

One one hand it's sorta admirable an uber-rich guy would try and get some help from actual knowledgeable people, but it sure hasn't worked out very well so far.

Andy Reid, Sean Peyton, Mccarthy and Pederson, all super bowl winning coaches all known to be very good with QB's have been available for Woody, and he either stayed with, or took the following: Bowles, Gase, Saleh over going after any of those guys. Its hard to imagine with any of them we woudlnt be in a much better spot than we are. Woody wont get guys like that becuase they will tell him to go F himself if he tries to get involved, so instead he stays with or gets guys who let him do what he does. If his biggest motivations were winning, he would have gotten one of those 4 guys

[Flea Flicking Frank]

2 minutes ago, Warfish said:

The structure (till just recently) where HC and GM both are some odd sort of co-equals was 100% part of Woody's problem, as were his several "fire one but mandate keeping the other" moves.  We've all been critical of that for years.

Happily, at least under JD, that issue was corrected.  Saleh works for JD.  Not for Woody.

Do we know this to be true? I was not under that impression. I know JD ultimately hired Saleh, but I was under the impression that Woody had major input into that decision

[Warfish]

1 minute ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Andy Reid, Sean Peyton, Mccarthy and Pederson, all super bowl winning coaches all known to be very good with QB's have been available for Woody, and he either stayed with, or took the following: Bowles, Gase, Saleh over going after any of those guys. Its hard to imagine with any of them we woudlnt be in a much better spot than we are. Woody wont get guys like that becuase they will tell him to go F himself if he tries to get involved, so instead he stays with or gets guys who let him do what he does. If his biggest motivations were winning, he would have gotten one of those 4 guys

I like using McCarthy as an example, because the majority on this forum was against McCarthy too.  I think it's worth reminding folks how often the majority here is wrong right along with Woody.

[Warfish]

2 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

Do we know this to be true? I was not under that impression. I know JD ultimately hired Saleh, but I was under the impression that Woody had major input into that decision

I believe that was stated publicly, it was a while back now.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

6 minutes ago, Warfish said:

One's impending death might be a factor I suppose.

Woody seems to not trust himself, as he has gone outside his own circle to get advice/direction on several of his recent hires (i.e. the past decade or so).  Peyton Manning, the ex-GM's, consultants, etc.

One one hand it's sorta admirable an uber-rich guy would try and get some help from actual knowledgeable people, but it sure hasn't worked out very well so far.

 

2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

What? How? He hired Korn Ferry with the condition that the new GM kept Rex. It’s why so many people cancelled on the Jets during that cycle. 

Woody just wants to do whatever he thinks will be the popular move and will make the Jets relevant. So whenever he feels pressure from fans, that's when he makes moves and gets involved. Rex was popular, made them relevant earlier on so he wanted to keep that part. 

That's why every HC is an opposite hire of the last one because fans want the opposite of what they had. So if Saleh IS fired, don't worry, it will be an offense guy. 

[Matt39]

Damning for Zach here:

Multiple sources in the building confirmed that Zach doesn’t want to play.

[Matt39]

5 minutes ago, SomebodytoAnybody47 said:

 

Woody just wants to do whatever he thinks will be the popular move and will make the Jets relevant. So whenever he feels pressure from fans, that's when he makes moves and gets involved. Rex was popular, made them relevant earlier on so he wanted to keep that part. 

That's why every HC is an opposite hire of the last one because fans want the opposite of what they had. So if Saleh IS fired, don't worry, it will be an offense guy. 

Woody has never hired an offensive coach (if we really believe his brother made the Gase hire)

[JiFtheOracle]

6 hours ago, SomebodytoAnybody47 said:

So what's the latest gossip today, ladies?

Not sure, SomebodytoAnybody47.  lmfao

[Flea Flicking Frank]

11 minutes ago, Warfish said:

I like using McCarthy as an example, because the majority on this forum was against McCarthy too.  I think it's worth reminding folks how often the majority here is wrong right along with Woody.

Im not going to lie, I did not love Maccarthy, but I thought given his history with the QB position, he was the best possible candidate.There was a lot of negative stuff that came out of GB about him, and I think of the 4 guys i mentioned, he would have been my least preferred, but still would have strongly preferred him over Gase/Saleh, and have to think he would have gotten a QB by now, either by trade, FA or draft

 

[Hex]

23 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Damning for Zach here:

Multiple sources in the building confirmed that Zach doesn’t want to play.

Yea but he is anyways. Plus, the original report just said he was 'reluctant', implying he was going to play anyways even though he didn't want to.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

31 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

Damning for Zach here:

Multiple sources in the building confirmed that Zach doesn’t want to play.

you have become so damn weird..... If this is damming for Zach, what is it for Saleh and the Jets?? They are playing a QB this week who doesn't want to play? How the hell do they keep him on the team, let alone start him this week? And don't give me any nonsnse about Jet Blue or woody fingering his mom or any other BS. If Zach had the pull you think he has, and he doesnt want to play, hes not playing, its that simple. As bad as this looks for ZW, it looks 1000x worse for the Jets as an organization to keep and play a guy who doesnt want to play

[TuscanyTile2]

12 minutes ago, Hex said:

Yea but he is anyways. Plus, the original report just said he was 'reluctant', implying he was going to play anyways even though he didn't want to.

I was against McCarthy.  Him doing well with Aaron Rodgers is like Nate Hackett doing well with Aaron Rodgers.

[Warfish]

4 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

I was against McCarthy.  Him doing well with Aaron Rodgers is like Nate Hackett doing well with Aaron Rodgers.

His Scoring Offenses so far in Dallas:  17th, 1st, 4th, 1st (so far in 2023).

His records in Dallas:  6-10, 12-5, 12-5, 9-3 with 5 games to go.

No Aaron Rodgers in sight.

Only 4 losing seasons in 17 years as a Head Coach.

Yeah, who would want that, eh.  

 

[TuscanyTile2]

42 minutes ago, Warfish said:

His Scoring Offenses so far in Dallas:  17th, 1st, 4th, 1st (so far in 2023).

His records in Dallas:  6-10, 12-5, 12-5, 9-3 with 5 games to go.

No Aaron Rodgers in sight.

Only 4 losing seasons in 17 years as a Head Coach.

Yeah, who would want that, eh.  

That was my thought process at the time.  I admit he's done well in Dallas so far.  Though it is interesting that there are rumors he could get fired after this season.

[Matt39]

54 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

you have become so damn weird..... If this is damming for Zach, what is it for Saleh and the Jets?? They are playing a QB this week who doesn't want to play? How the hell do they keep him on the team, let alone start him this week? And don't give me any nonsnse about Jet Blue or woody fingering his mom or any other BS. If Zach had the pull you think he has, and he doesnt want to play, hes not playing, its that simple. As bad as this looks for ZW, it looks 1000x worse for the Jets as an organization to keep and play a guy who doesnt want to play

This isn’t a me thing. The Jets are poorly run. 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

4 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

That was my thought process at the time.  I admit he's done well in Dallas so far.  Though it is interesting that there are rumors he could get fired after this season.

If he gets fired woody should hire him immediately and send Saleh and Hackett packing, and if Rodgers complains, let him go too 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

This isn’t a me thing. The Jets are poorly run. 

You have a bizarre fascination with zw, he will be gone soon, the jets will suck forever 

[Matt39]

2 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

You have a bizarre fascination with zw, he will be gone soon, the jets will suck forever 

I’m fascinated into how and why he’s gotten this long of a leash. 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

1 minute ago, Matt39 said:

I’m fascinated into how and why he’s gotten this long of a leash. 

Your theories have more holes than this thread has nitwits 

[Warfish]

18 minutes ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

That was my thought process at the time.  I admit he's done well in Dallas so far.  Though it is interesting that there are rumors he could get fired after this season.

Jer'ah gonna Jer'ah.

And you're right, he might, if McCarthy can't lead a deep/Super Bow run this year.

It's a good team tho, so he might just.  If he can beat the Eggels.

[Bleedin Green]

I actually got a call today asking if I'd start for the Jets this week, but turned them down. So sorry guys, I guess this one's on me.

[JetsFanatic]

 

[JetsFanatic]

 

[Flea Flicking Frank]

6 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

I actually got a call today asking if I'd start for the Jets this week, but turned them down. So sorry guys, I guess this one's on me.

[Bleedin Green]

2 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

 

I have absolutely no doubt that at the very least there will be a lot of laughter to be had.

[T0mShane]

3 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

 

[T0mShane]

22 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

I’m fascinated into how and why he’s gotten this long of a leash. 

All goes back to the question we ask about this team every year: who’s in charge of the New York Jets? And the answer is, every year post-Rex, Woody Johnson.

[Adoni Beast]

5 minutes ago, JetsFanatic said:

 

I think he knows these will be the last games he probably ever starts for his career and will play complete backyard ball with complete caution to the wind.

[dbatesman]

29 minutes ago, Flea Flicking Frank said:

You have a bizarre fascination with zw

He’s the starting quarterback.

[Matt39]

6 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I’m sure the play calling will reflect that.

[Flea Flicking Frank]

3 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

He’s the starting quarterback.