Sauce and Quinnen Williams Voted into Pro Bowl (Zeurlein Moarstead Quincy Mosley BREECE Hall Johnson Alternates )

[Warfish]

11 hours ago, Long Island Leprechaun said:

How could "Soft" Gardner be a pro-bowler. He doesn't have enough interceptions.

Or so I'm told. 

"Any"

He doesn't have any interceptions.

Pro-Bowl is a popularity contest, and Sauce is very popular.  Cool nicknames and great marketing never hurt.

Get your Sauce Sauce Wings at B-Dubs now, they're great!

 

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, Biggs said:

Amazing all these good players and the team is an abomination.   Must be the culture coupled with the toxic fan base.  

They're just not that impactful to Wins/Losses.

No one wants to accept that, but it's true.  Sauce and QW don't win games, and never will.

Sauce is pretty great in coverage, no doubt, but doesn't man up on their opponents #1, doesn't get thrown at as much and doesn't create turnovers at all (so far).

QW may take up two blockers at times (as any decent DT should), but he doesn't get many sacks himself outside his contract year.  He may impact a few plays a game directly, and more indirectly (if other players are playing well) but he's not worth the price.  He's taken as tep back this year, plain and simple.

Replace them both with average-level players, and this is still a top 10-12 Defense and we win about the same number of games IMO.  They just don't move the needle on wins/losses.

I'll keep saying it, unpopular tho it may be, they're both over-hyped by our fanbase (understandably, they get alot of good sports media press and are popular "stars", which we lack elsewhere), but we'd be better off trading both while they're value is maximized, and reinvesting those assets trying to fix the utterly broken, mostly talent-deficient Offense this team has been fielding for the last 25 years.  

[nj meadowlands]

Wow Sauce made it because of his cool flashy nickname what a joke he stinks we should totally trade him

[Hex]

I don't think either player deserved a pro bowl this season. They weren't bad like some people think, but they definitely weren't better than some of the players that got snubbed. 

Regardless that's what the All-Pro teams are for. I think that will be a better discussion.

[THE BARON]

13 hours ago, Beerfish said:

In no way shape or form should mosley be in the pro bowl let alone starter.

He cannot cover anyone at all and the jets run defense is lower 3rd in the league.

The Dline keeps him clean and he makes tackles usually 5 yards or more down the field.

Quincy Williams is more worthy than mosely that is for sure.

Mosley's play is not equal to his contract, but he is key in the defensive scheme.  JD needs to restructure his deal. 

[#27TheDominator]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

They're just not that impactful to Wins/Losses.

No one wants to accept that, but it's true.  Sauce and QW don't win games, and never will.

Sauce is pretty great in coverage, no doubt, but doesn't man up on their opponents #1, doesn't get thrown at as much and doesn't create turnovers at all (so far).

QW may take up two blockers at times (as any decent DT should), but he doesn't get many sacks himself outside his contract year.  He may impact a few plays a game directly, and more indirectly (if other players are playing well) but he's not worth the price.  He's taken as tep back this year, plain and simple.

Replace them both with average-level players, and this is still a top 10-12 Defense and we win about the same number of games IMO.  They just don't move the needle on wins/losses.

I'll keep saying it, unpopular tho it may be, they're both over-hyped by our fanbase (understandably, they get alot of good sports media press and are popular "stars", which we lack elsewhere), but we'd be better off trading both while they're value is maximized, and reinvesting those assets trying to fix the utterly broken, mostly talent-deficient Offense this team has been fielding for the last 25 years.  

I feel like this typical of our fan base.  We don't win, so none of our players can be good?  Sauce doesn't correlate to wins/losses?  Well our D was basically the same in 2021 as 2022 and 2023.  The main difference is that we added two cover corners.  In 2021 we were 32/32 in D.  We may not be as "elite" as some think, but we certainly aren't the worst D in football.  We certainly haven't been that since we got some corners.  Put Bryce Hall back there and watch how quick things go to sh*t.  Yeah, they held up for one game against Philly, but I don't want to find out for a season.

[Warfish]

54 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I feel like this typical of our fan base.  We don't win, so none of our players can be good?

Incorrect, several of our players age good, including QW and Sauce.  Huff too.  Also G.Wilson and Hall.

54 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

Sauce doesn't correlate to wins/losses?  Well our D was basically the same in 2021 as 2022 and 2023.  The main difference is that we added two cover corners.  In 2021 we were 32/32 in D.  We may not be as "elite" as some think, but we certainly aren't the worst D in football.  We certainly haven't been that since we got some corners.  Put Bryce Hall back there and watch how quick things go to sh*t.  Yeah, they held up for one game against Philly, but I don't want to find out for a season.

Bryce Hall is a scab level player.  As I said, put solidly average players in those two spots, and I believe we'd suffer a little sure, but not that much.  And not in W/L.

If you think QW and Sauce are the lynchpins to future winning, ok, I absolutely respect differences of opinion.  I just don't agree and think "Defense Wins Championships" folks are extremely misguided when it comes to the 2023 NFL. 

I think QW and Sauce, and the D in general, is mostly irrelevant to changing the course of this franchises future in terms of winning games.  I don't believe it moves the needle at all on W/L, generally, in the absence of an Offense driving things. 

We were 4th in scoring D last year and won....7 games. 

We're looking to be closer to 18th or 19th in scoring D this year and we're gonna win....7 games, if we try/don't tank on Sunday.

A drop of 15 spots, in scoring D not the less relevant yards allowed, and yet no meaningful change in W/L.  

Move us from 32 to 15 or 10 on Offense, and then you'll see real change in W/L, we win 10-12 games, not 4 or 6 or 7.

JMO. 

0 INT's and 3.5 Sacks aren't that hard to replace, but the value they could return, in a good GM's hands, could fix a hell of alot of problems on our broken and disfunction POS offense.  Of course, right now everyone is back in dreamy "Rodgers will fix it" mode, so as noted, I don't expect many to agree with me on this one, lol. 

And to be clear, I certainly don't expect Saleh (ex-DCo) to think this way, nor JD either.  My idea here will never, ever happen.

[Matt39]

51 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

I feel like this typical of our fan base.  We don't win, so none of our players can be good?  Sauce doesn't correlate to wins/losses?  Well our D was basically the same in 2021 as 2022 and 2023.  The main difference is that we added two cover corners.  In 2021 we were 32/32 in D.  We may not be as "elite" as some think, but we certainly aren't the worst D in football.  We certainly haven't been that since we got some corners.  Put Bryce Hall back there and watch how quick things go to sh*t.  Yeah, they held up for one game against Philly, but I don't want to find out for a season.

Sauce doesn’t really correlate to wins. He covers a spot in cover 2. I mean you know football, thats replaceable. He doesn’t create turnovers nor does he tackle. Two big things you need out of your “star” zone corner.  The pass defense took the jump last year because yeah the talent got better but they also played like 9 backup/3rd string QBs. Most decent QBs this year tore the defense up attacking the middle of the field. Tua and Allen, our two in division guys have had their way, which is the biggest indicator. And yeah I remember game 1. 
 

l

[Jethead]

QB is 1000x any other position. That is all.

Sauce and Q are top tier and we are luck to have them.

[Matt39]

Let’s check in on the effort from the PRO bowler (which we can pull from every game he didn’t record a turnover)

As Parcells used to say, if it’s not being coached it’s being allowed.

[JetPotato]

Anyone who doesn't think Sauce is a top 4 corner in this league doesn't have a clue what they are talking about. Not one.

[Matt39]

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

"Any"

He doesn't have any interceptions.

Pro-Bowl is a popularity contest, and Sauce is very popular.  Cool nicknames and great marketing never hurt.

Get your Sauce Sauce Wings at B-Dubs now, they're great!

 

We are entering “Prez” territory 

[nj meadowlands]

23 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

We are entering “Prez” territory 

LOL

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

How did Morstead and Zuerlein not make it 

Must be the “Jet tax”

[nj meadowlands]

Just now, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

How did Morstead and Zuerlein not make it 

Good q "Legatron" is a sweet nickname so he prob should have made it despite stinking

[Matt39]

5 minutes ago, nj meadowlands said:

LOL

 

actually good

[T0mShane]

3 hours ago, Warfish said:

They're just not that impactful to Wins/Losses.

I, too, feel like we’d have more wins if we lost our two best defensive players

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

26 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

We are entering “Prez” territory 

He’s obviously not the most aggressive tackler, but this is way, way down the list of concerns for me as far as overall concerns for this football team.

His #1 job is to cover guys.  I don’t recall Deion lighting dudes up on the perimeter in the run game.

The bright side is fewer collisions and therefore lower risk of concussion / contact injury.

I agree with you on a lot of things but don’t really understand this lowkey campaign against one of the team’s top players and one of few legit difference makers who’d be coveted by every other team in the league were he available to sign off the street right now.

[nj meadowlands]

2 minutes ago, Matt39 said:

 

actually good

Actually you with this insane vendetta

[JoeNamathsFurCoat]

7 minutes ago, nj meadowlands said:

Good q "Legatron" is a sweet nickname so he prob should have made it despite stinking

LOL

Didn’t he miss like 1 FG all year?

Just checking now:

Dude was 32 of 34 on FGs (94%) and 15 of 16 on XPs.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/Z/ZuerGr00/gamelog/2023/

[Dunnie]

12 hours ago, Jet_Engine1 said:

Just got the call... I'm a 7th Alternate!!

 

 

well deserved!

[nj meadowlands]

1 minute ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

LOL

Didn’t he miss like 1 FG all year?

Just checking now:

Dude was 32 of 34 on FGs (94%) and 15 of 16 on XPs.

https://www.pro-football-reference.com/players/Z/ZuerGr00/gamelog/2023/

He can't tackle tho

[Matt39]

4 minutes ago, JoeNamathsFurCoat said:

He’s obviously not the most aggressive tackler, but this is way, way down the list of concerns for me as far as overall concerns for this football team.

His #1 job is to cover guys.  I don’t recall Deion lighting dudes up on the perimeter in the run game.

The bright side is fewer collisions and therefore lower risk of concussion / contact injury.

I agree with you on a lot of things but don’t really understand this lowkey campaign against one of the team’s top players and one of few legit difference makers who’d be coveted by every other team in the league were he available to sign off the street right now.

Ok, the Deion comparison to pretty much anyone will always be silly. Deion had an uncanny ability to force bad throws and make interceptions while also being one of the best kick and punt returners of all time. There’s a reason he played forever and what he gave up in arm tackling he got back with turnovers and touchdowns and then some. If Sauce were doing either of those things the lackluster effort would be more acceptable.  Sauce is giving up gobbles of yards by not tackling inthe secondary, whether they’re credited to him or not ( and he’ll make sure to tell you it’s not on him) just watch the games. It’s purely an effort thing. Just saying, be careful pumping up a guy to this degree who doesn’t tackle and doesn’t force turnovers.

[Matt39]

As far as the two best players on defense, the accolades Gardner is getting should be directed towards JJ. 6.5 sacks, 10 TFLs, pick 6,  15 QB hits, 7 passes defended and a blocked punt (2nd career).

[rangerous]

16 hours ago, jetsrule128 said:

#Jets DT Quinnen Williams and CB Sauce Gardner have been selected starters for the Pro Bowl.

K Greg Zuerlein and P Thomas Morstead are 1st alternates.

LB C.J. Mosley is a 3rd alternate.

RB Breece Hall, LB Quincy Williams & LB Jermaine Johnson are 5th alternates.

It’s great that the jets are getting some good player representation in the pro bowl but just where are the results on the team record?  And where is gWilson? That guy really works for his yards.

[Warfish]

26 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

I, too, feel like we’d have more wins if we lost our two best defensive players

I do like how you leave half the equation out Tom. 

We're not a charity, we wouldn't be giving them away for free.

For (laughably unrealistic hypothetical) example:  We trade them both, plus some other picks, for the #1 and #2 overall picks, and we get Drake Maye and MHJr.  And we draft an OT with out own pick.

If you gave me a top QB prospect and the top WR prospect for Sauce and QW, I make that trade immediately.

You wouldn't?  You with Saleh and our past 25 years, wanna keep trying to win 3-0 every Sunday, lol.

[nj meadowlands]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

If you gave me a top QB prospect and the top WR prospect for Sauce and QW, I make that trade immediately.

 

Is that possible in this galaxy or in any other one?  No?  No.  So why are we sh*tting on our best player?  Lol

[Matt39]

more effort

https://youtu.be/5YeakoallWA?si=hXMzUGmaDsRkA0aH&t=683

https://youtu.be/5YeakoallWA?si=VET1BPc62cdxI1aQ&t=500

 

 

[Warfish]

23 minutes ago, nj meadowlands said:

Is that possible in this galaxy or in any other one?  No?  No.  So why are we sh*tting on our best player?  Lol

Wanting to trade one valued asset for a more important and more valuable asset isn't "sh*tting" on anyone.

Both Sauce and QW are likely worth 1st round picks (where in the round, who knows till we ask), and maybe more.  Saying that is hardly "sh*tting on them".  

We could do alot with that to fix this Offense, and I'd do that.

[nj meadowlands]

1 minute ago, Warfish said:

Wanting to trade one valued asset for a more important and more valuable asset isn't "sh*tting" on anyone.

Both Sauce and QW are likely worth 1st round picks (where in the round, who knows till we ask), and maybe more.  Saying that is hardly "sh*tting on them".  

We could do alot with that to fix this Offense, and I'd do that.

I didn't say you were sh*tting on him, but there is an entire thread on this board dedicated to sh*tting on him and many posts within this one lol

[bitonti]

4 hours ago, Warfish said:

No one wants to accept that, but it's true.  Sauce and QW don't win games, and never will.

They don't have the impact of a quarterback but every franchise needs a 1Cb and a 1 pass rusher to win a championship 

And before you roll your eyes qw is like 10th on Brandon thorns real sack rating. His pressure numbers are elite. 

Obviously the worthlessness of Zach Aaron and Hackett makes this a moot point regarding wins but there are analytics to back up sauce and qw being pro bowl, borderline all pro types and there's film to prove it too 

It's not sauce or Quinnen fault Joe Douglas built the worst qb room in football and one of the worst offensive line rooms both are bottom 3 type groups at this point 

[Warfish]

11 minutes ago, nj meadowlands said:

I didn't say you were sh*tting on him

You quoted me and said "why are we sh*tting on our best player?"

Forgive me if I took that as you saying I was sh*tting on him. 

[Warfish]

16 minutes ago, bitonti said:

They don't have the impact of a quarterback but every franchise needs a 1Cb and a 1 pass rusher to win a championship 

And before you roll your eyes qw is like 10th on Brandon thorns real sack rating. His pressure numbers are elite. 

Great!  An elite DT should be worth a high 1st round pick right?  Maybe more?

Like I said Bit, a good GM can do an awful lot to fix an Offense with a high #1 pick.

[T0mShane]

1 hour ago, Warfish said:

I do like how you leave half the equation out Tom. 

We're not a charity, we wouldn't be giving them away for free.

For (laughably unrealistic hypothetical) example:  We trade them both, plus some other picks, for the #1 and #2 overall picks, and we get Drake Maye and MHJr.  And we draft an OT with out own pick.

If you gave me a top QB prospect and the top WR prospect for Sauce and QW, I make that trade immediately.

You wouldn't?  You with Saleh and our past 25 years, wanna keep trying to win 3-0 every Sunday, lol.

Let’s say, hypothetically, you traded Sauce and Quinnen for Justin Herbert, your next move would be to find a left tackle, but the move after that would be to find a new CB1, and those are prohibitively expensive. I’m a little squishier on Quinnen because, as @Matt39 has pointed out over the years, you can find interior pass rushers in the draft, but Quinnen is still an elite interior pass rusher. The Jets defense hasn’t looked amazing down the stretch but they’re still third in EPA, which means they’ve been elite at stealing points in a game. I hereby object to your premise that Sauce and Quinnen aren’t factoring in to W/Ls, though, because it’s clearly the offense generally, and the QB play specifically, that have cost this team in the W/L department. What little success this team has had traces directly back to what Sauce and Quinnen provide.

[Matt39]

17 minutes ago, T0mShane said:

Let’s say, hypothetically, you traded Sauce and Quinnen for Justin Herbert, your next move would be to find a left tackle, but the move after that would be to find a new CB1, and those are prohibitively expensive. I’m a little squishier on Quinnen because, as @Matt39 has pointed out over the years, you can find interior pass rushers in the draft, but Quinnen is still an elite interior pass rusher. The Jets defense hasn’t looked amazing down the stretch but they’re still third in EPA, which means they’ve been elite at stealing points in a game. I hereby object to your premise that Sauce and Quinnen aren’t factoring in to W/Ls, though, because it’s clearly the offense generally, and the QB play specifically, that have cost this team in the W/L department. What little success this team has had traces directly back to what Sauce and Quinnen provide.

Quinnen yes. I don’t know what Gardner is providing that couldn’t be replaced by Echols if we’re just going to be playing zone. Gardners effort as a tackler is legit horrendous.