Perhaps This is the Reason Jets Are Letting Huff Walk?

[bonkertons]

I'm expecting that they have high expectations for McDonald next year, much like their expectations for JJ this past season.  Huff wants to be a 3-down DE but the numbers don't lie: our run D suffered when he was on the field.  He's a great pass rush specialist...elite, even.  Is that the type of guy you want to pay $20M to though?  Especially when you just drafted this kid who you are banking on becoming that type of guy?  And whats' more, we only have so much money to go around, even with cuts and restructures, and plenty of holes that need to be addressed.  Both OT spots, WR2, perhaps WR4 or 5, RB2, LG if we cut Tomlinson, DT2(probably the 3rd biggest hole IMO), S, possibly LB if Mosley goes. 

[Sperm Edwards]

11 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

Sperm I fully understand and agree with what you're saying here but not every team is going to have both sides of the position covered by both pass rushers and run defenders. I would be will to sacrifice some run defense for Huff to be a full time player especially when you can't be sure when teams will run or pass in todays NFL . I would rather have a situational run stopper than not sign a great pass rusher because he is "So Called" weak vs the run.

4th and short ok Huff get on the side lines ... no problem there 

on the other side you have JJ who is good both ways now that he's making it to the passer BUT JJ is not near the speed rusher Huff is and I think this defense will suffer without Huff's pressures. There are also ways to help out on that side to give Huff more snaps. 

Concentrate more on the interior line to sub out players and do what you have to do to make Huff work. There are lots of players out there who can rush the passer but are weak against the run and there are so many ways to trap pass rushers ... We can go on and on with all the different scenarios .

Offer Huff a 3 year 45 mil deal with Incentives and get rid of Lawson and JFM. That more than makes up for his salary . In reality Huff wants to be paid and if he gets paid what he wants WTF difference does it make how many snaps he gets. At the older age when this contract is up he will be wanted as a specialist anyhow so all he really wants is the money . The question is will 3-45 be too much what do you think 

Great. He turns that down because he doesn’t believe you that “Trust me, Coach Saleh will suddenly make you a starter after falling to do so these past two seasons when he’s had the opportunity, particularly after Lawson couldn’t play.”

Plus he can get that (or close enough to it, or more than that) elsewhere and - as he stated - there will be no hometown discount at all. That for him to re-sign here you’ll have to beat the next-highest offer by $4MM/year to get past that justified distrust of the coaches to many him starter. And based on that - and to get him to bypass shopping himself around as a FA - he wants at least $20MM/year with 2 years fully guaranteed to re-sign here before March, with no clean HC-DC slate, and btw a no trade clause so you can’t ship him out just anywhere after Saleh doesn’t start him anyway when he sees teams too often run right at him with impunity.

Now you’re where Douglas probably is right now: that’s just way too much for a situational pass rusher, the fact is Saleh/Ulbrich (not Douglas) has jurisdiction over that decision anyway, and if/when Huff is used the same way again (which is likely), you’ve now got a disgruntled player making a guaranteed $20MM/year for the next two seasons.

So what do you do when reality sets in that he just doesn’t want to play here, further armed with the knowledge that about half his next 10 sacks (possibly more) probably would’ve just gone to 2nd year McDonald else and not disappeared altogether?

You accept that the time to lock him up has passed, and whatever hopes there were ended with the team drafting McDonald so high. 

[Jetkwondo]

2 hours ago, bonkertons said:

I'm expecting that they have high expectations for McDonald next year, much like their expectations for JJ this past season.  Huff wants to be a 3-down DE but the numbers don't lie: our run D suffered when he was on the field.  He's a great pass rush specialist...elite, even.  Is that the type of guy you want to pay $20M to though?  Especially when you just drafted this kid who you are banking on becoming that type of guy?  And whats' more, we only have so much money to go around, even with cuts and restructures, and plenty of holes that need to be addressed.  Both OT spots, WR2, perhaps WR4 or 5, RB2, LG if we cut Tomlinson, DT2(probably the 3rd biggest hole IMO), S, possibly LB if Mosley goes. 

I agree as I thought it was interesting that McDonald was battle tested at Iowa St when he was played a ton inside and held up which factored in to thinking he won't be a big liability, just like J J wasn't in the run game. His ability to bend the edge like Huff will hopefully come to fruition this season, though patience is needed as was the case with JJ so far...

[bonkertons]

7 minutes ago, Jetkwondo said:

I agree as I thought it was interesting that McDonald was battle tested at Iowa St when he was played a ton inside and held up which factored in to thinking he won't be a big liability, like J J in the run game. His ability to bend the edge like Huff will hopefully come to fruition this season, though patience is needed as was the case with JJ so far...

It's really the only thing that makes sense to me.  I don't think they would have invested a 1st into a kid expected to be a rotational player.  I think that pick was made because A) they loved his upside and B ) they weren't expecting to be able to keep Huff.  If this was the plan though I just wish they would have moved Huff before the deadline, but I get that they thought they could still pull off a miracle and sneak into the playoffs.  

[Jetsplayer21]

On 1/10/2024 at 8:01 PM, Drums said:

Why not both? Heard the idea of trading JFM and signing Huff.

Maybe we can get a 2nd rounder for Will McDonald  im sure JD would never entertain the idea, just to save face about the low offers he would get for a 15th overall pick.. 

[Waka Flocka Flacco]

On 1/10/2024 at 6:22 PM, Matt39 said:

Johnson was the best player on the Jets defense this season.

lol no is this a joke

[Bruce Harper]

23 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

They won't. 

They 2nd round tendered him last year and no one bought.

Jets won't get anything for him.  It happens.

Dude got 10 sacks this year.  The market for him may have changed.

[Bruce Harper]

1 hour ago, jamesr said:

Why would a team agree to hand over a 2nd round pick for a guy who is about to become a FA? They'd have to offer him a megabucks contract either way.

The franchise tag would give them at least a year and some leverage and exclusive negotiations toward reaching an agreement.  It's not crazy.  Pass rushers are hard to come by.

[bonkertons]

7 minutes ago, Jetsplayer21 said:

Maybe we can get a 2nd rounder for Will McDonald  im sure JD would never entertain the idea, just to save face about the low offers he would get for a 15th overall pick.. 

Nor should he entertain that idea.  Good thing you aren't a GM.  

[jamesr]

The franchise tag would give them at least a year and some leverage and exclusive negotiations toward reaching an agreement.  It's not crazy.  Pass rushers are hard to come by.

I get the principle of this - but we need to look at various impacts of this. Can we afford to pay Huff that amount of money given his role on the team, and how that money could be allocated elsewhere? And would Huff even accept playing on the tag, or want to negotiate on a new deal when it is clear he wants a role that we probably don't consider him suitable for?

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

[Bruce Harper]

23 hours ago, FidelioJet said:

They won't. 

They 2nd round tendered him last year and no one bought.

Jets won't get anything for him.  It happens.

Lol, Just saw the other thread with a GM saying it could happen..  So maybe I'm not crazy.  And I had said I hoped it would happen, not that it would happen.

[Bruce Harper]

1 minute ago, jamesr said:

I get the principle of this - but we need to look at various impacts of this. Can we afford to pay Huff that amount of money given his role on the team, and how that money could be allocated elsewhere? And would Huff even accept playing on the tag, or want to negotiate on a new deal when it is clear he wants a role that we probably don't consider him suitable for?

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

We would only do it if we had an agreement in advance to trade him.  In other words, we wouldn't have to pay it.

[SomebodytoAnybody47]

Trade him/don't resign him - don't care. Resources need to be put into the offense. All of it. 

[jamesr]

We would only do it if we had an agreement in advance to trade him.  In other words, we wouldn't have to pay it.

So that brings me back to my previous question - why would a team look to give us a draft pick over and above paying Huff a big contract when they can just sign him in FA and keep the draft pick?

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[Bruce Harper]

3 minutes ago, jamesr said:

So that brings me back to my previous question - why would a team look to give us a draft pick over and above paying Huff a big contract when they can just sign him in FA and keep the draft pick?

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
 

Because they would not be bidding against 30 teams.  They would have the sole right to negotiate with him.  And they would get at least one year.  A team that is close might be happy to do this.  Also, his next team won't be so miserly with his snaps.  He could get 15 sacks for his next team.

[Jetsplayer21]

30 minutes ago, bonkertons said:

Nor should he entertain that idea.  Good thing you aren't a GM.  

Ya sure guy lol. If it was such a great pick outside of JD and his little fan boys, why wouldn’t other teams be offering a 2nd or even first for him ? 

[Smashmouth]

1 hour ago, Sperm Edwards said:

Great. He turns that down because he doesn’t believe you that “Trust me, Coach Saleh will suddenly make you a starter after falling to do so these past two seasons when he’s had the opportunity, particularly after Lawson couldn’t play.”

Plus he can get that (or close enough to it, or more than that) elsewhere and - as he stated - there will be no hometown discount at all. That for him to re-sign here you’ll have to beat the next-highest offer by $4MM/year to get past that justified distrust of the coaches to many him starter. And based on that - and to get him to bypass shopping himself around as a FA - he wants at least $20MM/year with 2 years fully guaranteed to re-sign here before March, with no clean HC-DC slate, and btw a no trade clause so you can’t ship him out just anywhere after Saleh doesn’t start him anyway when he sees teams too often run right at him with impunity.

Now you’re where Douglas probably is right now: that’s just way too much for a situational pass rusher, the fact is Saleh/Ulbrich (not Douglas) has jurisdiction over that decision anyway, and if/when Huff is used the same way again (which is likely), you’ve now got a disgruntled player making a guaranteed $20MM/year for the next two seasons.

So what do you do when reality sets in that he just doesn’t want to play here, further armed with the knowledge that about half his next 10 sacks (possibly more) probably would’ve just gone to 2nd year McDonald else and not disappeared altogether?

You accept that the time to lock him up has passed, and whatever hopes there were ended with the team drafting McDonald so high. 

Huff Wants to be a full time starter because he probably feels that will get him full time starter money. If you offer him a good salary with guaranteed money I'm not sure he turns that down to "just" be a starter. A full time starter that's not at the over all elite level like say a Nick Bosa or a TJ Watt is going to be in the low 20's range I'm not sure anyone will offer Huff low 20's because they may feel if he's weak vs the run it would be a liability. We'll just have to wait and see how this plays out I'm sure Huff will test the market, no question there, but there are many ways the Jets can handle this situation so we wait and see.

When it comes to what we currently have JJ is a Football player and a damn good one over all but he's not that speed rusher that really push's a QB into mistakes he more along the lines of relentless but gets the coverage sack before he's ever gonna get to the QB in under 2 seconds. Without Huff we lose that and as I stated a few times that will hurt the pass defense and it will create more doubles on JJ so I'm not sure I want to give that up because we are worried about Huff's run defense when our defense is designed to create havoc in the passing game but not so much in the run game and in this case only part of the run game on runs that take it outside. 

Keep in mind we played from behind this year most of the time, when Rodgers takes over and we are playing with leads, Huff will be even more valuable since he will probably be playing full time in the 4th quarter with those leads. If we make the playoffs and have a 14 point lead in the 4th, at that stage how much more valuable will Huff be ? I think in the Rodgers scenario playing with Leads Huff Surpasses 15 sacks with no problem. When you need pressure in a big game vs a big time QB having that speed guy who is probably one of the best in the NFL at getting to the QB quickly will be sorely missed. 

I know you said Well Huff said "this" so he's outta here ..... Well every player in a contract year says "this"

In the end I hope we find a way to make this work.

 

[Sperm Edwards]

10 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Huff Wants to be a full time starter because he probably feels that will get him full time starter money. If you offer him a good salary with guaranteed money I'm not sure he turns that down to "just" be a starter. A full time starter that's not at the over all elite level like say a Nick Bosa or a TJ Watt is going to be in the low 20's range I'm not sure anyone will offer Huff low 20's because they may feel if he's weak vs the run it would be a liability. We'll just have to wait and see how this plays out I'm sure Huff will test the market, no question there, but there are many ways the Jets can handle this situation so we wait and see.

When it comes to what we currently have JJ is a Football player and a damn good one over all but he's not that speed rusher that really push's a QB into mistakes he more along the lines of relentless but gets the coverage sack before he's ever gonna get to the QB in under 2 seconds. Without Huff we lose that and as I stated a few times that will hurt the pass defense and it will create more doubles on JJ so I'm not sure I want to give that up because we are worried about Huff's run defense when our defense is designed to create havoc in the passing game but not so much in the run game and in this case only part of the run game on runs that take it outside. 

Keep in mind we played from behind this year most of the time, when Rodgers takes over and we are playing with leads, Huff will be even more valuable since he will probably be playing full time in the 4th quarter with those leads. If we make the playoffs and have a 14 point lead in the 4th, at that stage how much more valuable will Huff be ? I think in the Rodgers scenario playing with Leads Huff Surpasses 15 sacks with no problem. When you need pressure in a big game vs a big time QB having that speed guy who is probably one of the best in the NFL at getting to the QB quickly will be sorely missed. 

I know you said Well Huff said "this" so he's outta here ..... Well every player in a contract year says "this"

In the end I hope we find a way to make this work.

 

You're not looking at this as an NFL player in his prime. 

People joke about the backup QB job being the best job in the league, but those guys don't want to be backups either: they all want to start. 

Huff wants the playing time. He didn't merely say he's giving the Jets no discount. He further said he wants to go somewhere where he's starting. The rationale why - he'll take a backseat again if they pay him what I want him to accept - is placing your ideas into his head.

You don't need to sell me on Huff being a terrific pass rusher. I know it. That just isn't enough for the Jets to pay him like an all-pro starter. 

He wants to start, and that's not happening here. Or anyway, it won't unless enough injuries propel that to happen. He knows it, and they have no chance of locking him up without him testing FA unless they offer him like that $23MM+ franchise tag amount per season, which the Jets aren't offering (and until I see otherwise, no one else is either). 

[derp]

4 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

You're not looking at this as an NFL player in his prime. 

People joke about the backup QB job being the best job in the league, but those guys don't want to be backups either: they all want to start. 

Huff wants the playing time. He didn't merely say he's giving the Jets no discount. He further said he wants to go somewhere where he's starting. The rationale why - he'll take a backseat again if they pay him what I want him to accept - is placing your ideas into his head.

You don't need to sell me on Huff being a terrific pass rusher. I know it. That just isn't enough for the Jets to pay him like an all-pro starter. 

He wants to start, and that's not happening here. Or anyway, it won't unless enough injuries propel that to happen. He knows it, and they have no chance of locking him up without him testing FA unless they offer him like that $23MM+ franchise tag amount per season, which the Jets aren't offering (and until I see otherwise, no one else is either). 

This strikes me as one of those situations where the staff is fitting the players to the scheme rather than the scheme to the players. If you've got a pass rusher that productive on a per snap basis, to me it's the coaching staff's responsibility to find ways to get him on the field until he proves it's too much for him to handle. But that stress testing needs to happen in house because it's not like he's going to have substantially worse value once that limit is found, and his value might be substantially higher.

Ship has sailed, though. I hope they manage to get something for him at least. I am worried we'll watch him become a high-end pass rusher with more volume elsewhere.

[Jetsplayer21]

2 hours ago, bonkertons said:

I'm expecting that they have high expectations for McDonald next year, much like their expectations for JJ this past season.  Huff wants to be a 3-down DE but the numbers don't lie: our run D suffered when he was on the field.  He's a great pass rush specialist...elite, even.  Is that the type of guy you want to pay $20M to though?  Especially when you just drafted this kid who you are banking on becoming that type of guy?  And whats' more, we only have so much money to go around, even with cuts and restructures, and plenty of holes that need to be addressed.  Both OT spots, WR2, perhaps WR4 or 5, RB2, LG if we cut Tomlinson, DT2(probably the 3rd biggest hole IMO), S, possibly LB if Mosley goes. 

There is a reason why JJ and Will McDonald were not picked earlier. Most gms who have a clue realize they are safer picks, but obviously like you point out, teams that actually know what they are doing realize you can’t pay all these DLs big $$.. Or your offense will end up like the Jets lol.. 

[Smashmouth]

8 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

You're not looking at this as an NFL player in his prime. 

People joke about the backup QB job being the best job in the league, but those guys don't want to be backups either: they all want to start. 

Huff wants the playing time. He didn't merely say he's giving the Jets no discount. He further said he wants to go somewhere where he's starting. The rationale why - he'll take a backseat again if they pay him what I want him to accept - is placing your ideas into his head.

You don't need to sell me on Huff being a terrific pass rusher. I know it. That just isn't enough for the Jets to pay him like an all-pro starter. 

He wants to start, and that's not happening here. Or anyway, it won't unless enough injuries propel that to happen. He knows it, and they have no chance of locking him up without him testing FA unless they offer him like that $23MM+ franchise tag amount per season, which the Jets aren't offering (and until I see otherwise, no one else is either). 

Yeah I hear what your saying . When it comes to the Jets or any team on how they evaluate a position like pass rusher / DE its what can they give you in crunch time. What Huff may not be taking into account is maybe because he gets that part time play he's fresher and has that advantage over the RT. So many variables in this discussion and I don't disagree with anything you say I'm just hoping the Jets evaluate on what they expect this team to be rather than what it has been. 

[Smashmouth]

15 minutes ago, derp said:

This strikes me as one of those situations where the staff is fitting the players to the scheme rather than the scheme to the players. If you've got a pass rusher that productive on a per snap basis, to me it's the coaching staff's responsibility to find ways to get him on the field until he proves it's too much for him to handle. But that stress testing needs to happen in house because it's not like he's going to have substantially worse value once that limit is found, and his value might be substantially higher.

Ship has sailed, though. I hope they manage to get something for him at least. I am worried we'll watch him become a high-end pass rusher with more volume elsewhere.

If he leaves he most certainly will become premier especially if he plays for a team that can score a TD and play with a lead

[Matt39]

2 hours ago, Waka Flocka Flacco said:

lol no is this a joke

Who was? Quinnen? 

[FidelioJet]

2 hours ago, Bruce Harper said:

Lol, Just saw the other thread with a GM saying it could happen..  So maybe I'm not crazy.  And I had said I hoped it would happen, not that it would happen.

Of course.  Anything can happen.  I do not believe they get anything for him.  He will be signed as a FA.

I surely hope I'm wrong about this one.

[Rich Thornburgh]

On 1/11/2024 at 2:01 AM, Drums said:

Why not both? Heard the idea of trading JFM and signing Huff.

Or simply cut Mosley save $17 million and draft Junior Colson in rd 3 to replace him

[Waka Flocka Flacco]

4 hours ago, Matt39 said:

Who was? Quinnen? 

Quinnen was the best player on the Jets defense last year. Quinnen is the best player on the Jets defense this year. Quinnen will be the best player on the Jets defense next year. They’re not paying him what they are for lols. He and the corners are the whole defense. The front 7 is close to the bottom of the league without him. Squarely in the GOAT Jet conversation by the time the second contract is up.

[Matt39]

50 minutes ago, Waka Flocka Flacco said:

Quinnen was the best player on the Jets defense last year. Quinnen is the best player on the Jets defense this year. Quinnen will be the best player on the Jets defense next year. They’re not paying him what they are for lols. He and the corners are the whole defense. The front 7 is close to the bottom of the league without him. Squarely in the GOAT Jet conversation by the time the second contract is up.

He’s great 

[jetsfan4life72]

We should be talking about getting rid of JFM, not our sack leader. 

[32EBoozer]

15 hours ago, Waka Flocka Flacco said:

Quinnen was the best player on the Jets defense last year. Quinnen is the best player on the Jets defense this year. Quinnen will be the best player on the Jets defense next year. They’re not paying him what they are for lols. He and the corners are the whole defense. The front 7 is close to the bottom of the league without him. Squarely in the GOAT Jet conversation by the time the second contract is up.

1st Team All-Pro Quincy Williams says hello!

2nd Team All-Pro Quinnen Williams is the disruptive force that helps a sub-par Mosley still be considered an All-Pro. Quincy gets all the credit for upping his game, but Q is the one that opens the lanes allowing his penetration.

[JetsMan57]

The below would be Kareem McKenzie all over again

 

One player Schatz mentions as a possibility for the Giants is the Jets’ Bryce Huff.
The Giants will make a splash with a surprisingly big free agent contract for edge rusher Bryce Huff, currently of the crosstown Jets. Huff has started only seven games in his career but is a bit of a secret star with a 23.5% career pass rush win rate.