Scouts take on Brock Bowers - merged

[Gastineau Lives]

18 hours ago, GreenFish said:

At 6-3 241,  Bowers is closer in size to Kyle Juszczyk than he is George Kittle.

We are drafting a FB at #10 overall.

 

[Claymation]

I just saw an interesting stat, Hershel Walker scored a TD once every 19 times he touched the ball for the Bulldogs. Bowers did once every 6 times he touched the rock.

Conklin for the Jets last year didn't score a TD.

The Jets need playmakers, whether its Odunze, MHJ or Bowers, I don't care. Just get one.

 

[Bobby816]

37 minutes ago, Gastineau Lives said:

 

In a league that is going to “flag football”

[Jetkwondo]

32 minutes ago, Claymation said:

I just saw an interesting stat, Hershel Walker scored a TD once every 19 times he touched the ball for the Bulldogs. Bowers did once every 6 times he touched the rock.

Conklin for the Jets last year didn't score a TD.

The Jets need playmakers, whether its Odunze, MHJ or Bowers, I don't care. Just get one.

 

Well since we're doing college stats, let's do Conklin's 

	Receiving				Rushing				Scrimmage
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Rec	Yds	Avg	TD	Att	Yds	Avg	TD	Plays	Yds	Avg	TD
Career	Central Michigan					83	1159	14.0	11	0	0		0	83	1159	14.0	11
*2015	Central Michigan	MAC	SO	TE	8	6	95	15.8	0	0	0		0	6	95	15.8	0
*2016	Central Michigan	MAC	JR	TE	12	42	560	13.3	6	0	0		0	42	560	13.3	6
*2017	Central Michigan	MAC	SR	TE	8	35	504	14.4	5	0	0		0	35	504	14.4	5

83 Receptions divided by 11 Touchdowns = 7.54  which is pretty close, no? 

[Bobby816]

Listen the stance of those not wanting Bowers are better off just saying you don’t want a TE at 10. Because the second you start criticizing his play and size. You then look like the idiot.

 

There's 100% nothing wrong at saying your don't want a certain player bc of the position being addressed. So the stance of you just don't want a TE at 10 I can understand. I don't agree with it. But I understand it.

 

I for one didn't want Sauce at 5 3 drafts ago. But you never saw me ever saying Sauce wasn't great. I in fact said he is 1000% worthy of the pick. I just thought DE was a WAY bigger need. So that's what I wanted to go.

 

So the second you start attacking the players skill set. Is where it looks dumb.

[Claymation]

4 minutes ago, Jetkwondo said:

Well since we're doing college stats, let's do Conklin's 

	Receiving				Rushing				Scrimmage
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Rec	Yds	Avg	TD	Att	Yds	Avg	TD	Plays	Yds	Avg	TD
Career	Central Michigan					83	1159	14.0	11	0	0		0	83	1159	14.0	11
*2015	Central Michigan	MAC	SO	TE	8	6	95	15.8	0	0	0		0	6	95	15.8	0
*2016	Central Michigan	MAC	JR	TE	12	42	560	13.3	6	0	0		0	42	560	13.3	6
*2017	Central Michigan	MAC	SR	TE	8	35	504	14.4	5	0	0		0	35	504	14.4	5

83 Receptions divided by 11 Touchdowns = 7.54  which is pretty close, no? 

He only touched the ball 83 times in college, lol.

He has more TD his Senior year than the 2 years at the Jets. We get it you like mediocre players that you think are better than they are. Nothing wrong with that. 

[Jetkwondo]

23 minutes ago, Claymation said:

He only touched the ball 83 times in college, lol.

He has more TD his Senior year than the 2 years at the Jets. We get it you like mediocre players that you think are better than they are. Nothing wrong with that. 

Mediocre players,  touche...lol ...It's just that I realize that stats can always tell different stories.

Conklin didn't control how many touches he got in college so I won't ding him for that. I think he was very efficient with what he got which was my point. 

As far as his stats with the Jets and Minn he's shown to be consistent and reliable in averaging about 10 yards per reception though he's not a YAK threat like Bowers. However, I do admit that I take offense when a consistent, team player is minimalized . Nothing wrong with that.

[slats]

42 minutes ago, Claymation said:

He only touched the ball 83 times in college, lol.

He has more TD his Senior year than the 2 years at the Jets. We get it you like mediocre players that you think are better than they are. Nothing wrong with that. 

Last season Conklin had 27 first downs on 61 receptions with Zach & friends throwing him the football. Last year’s next Travis Kelce had 29 first downs on 73 receptions from Josh Allen. 

[Jetkwondo]

Oh, also since you brought it up and comparing college to the NFL is unfair, 

Bowers senior year TD's= 6

Conklin senior year TD's= 5

Again, close... 

And if we do average per reception in their Senior year...

Bowers= 12.8

Conklin = 14.4

Just saying....  we could go round and round when using stats.

Now, though not my first choice,  if we happen to use Conklin AND Bowers in a 2 TE set this season, I would be very happy!

[Claymation]

8 minutes ago, Jetkwondo said:

Mediocre players,  touche...lol ...It's just that I realize that stats can always tell different stories.

Conklin didn't control how many touches he got in college so I won't ding him for that. I think he was very efficient with what he got which was my point. 

As far as his stats with the Jets and Minn he's shown to be consistent and reliable in averaging about 10 yards per reception though he's not a YAK threat like Bowers. However, I do admit that I take offense when a consistent, team player is minimalized . Nothing wrong with that.

His play dictated the amount of touches. He is a nice 2nd TE, but as a feature TE I want more. Granted he might end up being that for the Jets, but it doesn't mean the Jets should settle.

[Jetkwondo]

25 minutes ago, slats said:

Last season Conklin had 27 first downs on 61 receptions with Zach & friends throwing him the football. Last year’s next Travis Kelce had 29 first downs on 73 receptions from Josh Allen. 

Didn't realize that which put's things in perspective and shows Conklin's overlooked usefulness, especially being that Kelce was moonlighting from playing with Mahomes!   LOL 

[Claymation]

16 minutes ago, slats said:

Last season Conklin had 27 first downs on 61 receptions with Zach & friends throwing him the football. Last year’s next Travis Kelce had 29 first downs on 73 receptions from Josh Allen. 

You are using counting stat.

Was Conklin efficient? The answer is no. Why? Mostly because of poor QB play. But to be good his 1st Down percentage needs to be higher than 31%. His career 1st down percentage per target is 31%. That's with Kirk throwing him the ball as well.

The reason I am using targets instead of completions, is that it takes in account a play towards that specific receiver. It accounts for drops, bad routes and poor passes. Its similar to at bats and plate appearances, you don't want to exclude anything. 

Cole Kmet had 36 1st downs on 90 tagets for 40% from Justin Fields.

 

[Claymation]

21 minutes ago, Jetkwondo said:

Oh, also since you brought it up and comparing college to the NFL is unfair, 

Bowers senior year TD's= 6

Conklin senior year TD's= 5

Again, close... 

He had 7, because he ran for one.

However I'll play along since you are cherry picking stats. Bowers had 31 TDs for his career at Georgia, Conklin had 11. Conklin had 1159 yards receiving on 83 receptions.

Bowers had 2538 yards and 175 receptions and 18 carries for 193 yards.

Georgia plays in the SEC and Central Michigan plays in the Mid American Conference.

Both played 3 years. 

One will be making north of 6 million and the other south of 4 million this year.

[Bobby816]

1 hour ago, Jetkwondo said:

Well since we're doing college stats, let's do Conklin's 

	Receiving				Rushing				Scrimmage
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Rec	Yds	Avg	TD	Att	Yds	Avg	TD	Plays	Yds	Avg	TD
Career	Central Michigan					83	1159	14.0	11	0	0		0	83	1159	14.0	11
*2015	Central Michigan	MAC	SO	TE	8	6	95	15.8	0	0	0		0	6	95	15.8	0
*2016	Central Michigan	MAC	JR	TE	12	42	560	13.3	6	0	0		0	42	560	13.3	6
*2017	Central Michigan	MAC	SR	TE	8	35	504	14.4	5	0	0		0	35	504	14.4	5

83 Receptions divided by 11 Touchdowns = 7.54  which is pretty close, no? 

So Bowers in SEC Champ and NCAA playoff games against the elite of the elite in NCAA had as many TDs as Conklin did playing against weak D1 competition as a senior.

 

That's what I got out of this. 

[slats]

27 minutes ago, Claymation said:

You are using counting stat.

Was Conklin efficient? The answer is no. Why? Mostly because of poor QB play. But to be good his 1st Down percentage needs to be higher than 31%. His career 1st down percentage per target is 31%. That's with Kirk throwing him the ball as well.

The reason I am using targets instead of completions, is that it takes in account a play towards that specific receiver. It accounts for drops, bad routes and poor passes. Its similar to at bats and plate appearances, you don't want to exclude anything. 

Cole Kmet had 36 1st downs on 90 tagets for 40% from Justin Fields.

 

I’m not avoiding Bowers because I think Conklin is great. I’m avoiding the TE because I believe the value and need is far greater at both OT and WR. 

[jetstream23]

5 hours ago, The Crusher said:

Providing somebody wants to come up. If they do then he very well may trade beck. Yet, if they are still sticking with the all in for this year concept  maybe they trade up? Gonna be an interesting night Thursday. 

Yes, interesting for sure.  If they don't trade up I think they'll stay put, or maybe trade back.  Definitely one of the three.  So many options.  I think I'll have to grill some steaks, but also Buffalo wings.  And ribs.  Gotta cover all our bases.

[jetstream23]

3 hours ago, Claymation said:

I just saw an interesting stat, Hershel Walker scored a TD once every 19 times he touched the ball for the Bulldogs. Bowers did once every 6 times he touched the rock.

Conklin for the Jets last year didn't score a TD.

The Jets need playmakers, whether its Odunze, MHJ or Bowers, I don't care. Just get one.

 

To be fair, the Jets did just trade the guy who spent all last year not throwing TDs to Conklin.

 

[#27TheDominator]

2 hours ago, slats said:

Last season Conklin had 27 first downs on 61 receptions with Zach & friends throwing him the football. Last year’s next Travis Kelce had 29 first downs on 73 receptions from Josh Allen. 

That's actually really impressive.  How many did he have from Mahomes? 

[Jetkwondo]

1 hour ago, slats said:

I’m not avoiding Bowers because I think Conklin is great. I’m avoiding the TE because I believe the value and need is far greater at both OT and WR. 

Nail on Head!   Exactly! 

[Claymation]

12 minutes ago, jetstream23 said:

To be fair, the Jets did just trade the guy who spent all last year not throwing TDs to Conklin.

 

I understand, and made mention to the poor QB play.

However, He wasn't effective on Minnesota either.

[slats]

15 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

That's actually really impressive.  How many did he have from Mahomes? 

Lol, “last year’s Travis Kelce,” was Dalton Kincaid, that’s who I was referencing. 

[Larz]

This is going to trigger a lot of people, but the jets have a very good roster, but TE and S needs help. 
 

 

[Claymation]

1 hour ago, slats said:

I’m not avoiding Bowers because I think Conklin is great. I’m avoiding the TE because I believe the value and need is far greater at both OT and WR. 

Curious, do you think a TE1 is more valuable than WR3?

[JustInFudge]

4 hours ago, Claymation said:

I just saw an interesting stat, Hershel Walker scored a TD once every 19 times he touched the ball for the Bulldogs. Bowers did once every 6 times he touched the rock.

Conklin for the Jets last year didn't score a TD.

The Jets need playmakers, whether its Odunze, MHJ or Bowers, I don't care. Just get one.

 

The Jets were last in the NFL in TD's scored and picking up 1st downs.  68% of Brock Bowers receptions went for a 1st down or a TD.  Idk, seems like that fills a very important and major hole. 

 

 

[slats]

1 minute ago, Claymation said:

Curious, do you think a TE1 is more valuable than WR3?

That’s not my internal debate. First, I don’t know if Bowers will actually be able to play a traditional TE role or be more of the H-back/big slot that he’s generally associated with and second, I’d view any WR taken as WR2 by 2025. 
 
In their rookie years, I’d think they’d both be primarily taking reps away from Lazard, and I think the WR would be much more valuable in that role. 

[JustInFudge]

2 hours ago, slats said:

Last season Conklin had 27 first downs on 61 receptions with Zach & friends throwing him the football. Last year’s next Travis Kelce had 29 first downs on 73 receptions from Josh Allen. 

I dont know why Kincaid matters for the Jets but both numbers are really bad.  Especially when you apply zero TD's to the equation for Conklin.

[Jetkwondo]

1 hour ago, Claymation said:

He had 7, because he ran for one.

However I'll play along since you are cherry picking stats. Bowers had 31 TDs for his career at Georgia, Conklin had 11. Conklin had 1159 yards receiving on 83 receptions.

Bowers had 2538 yards and 175 receptions and 18 carries for 193 yards.

Georgia plays in the SEC and Central Michigan plays in the Mid American Conference.

Both played 3 years. 

One will be making north of 6 million and the other south of 4 million this year.

Let's back up, who started posting cherry picked stats first?, that I simply called out as being unfair in that it was weighing college TD's percentage to NFL TD's percentage at the expense of making Conklin look bad. 

Conklin is a Jet who I support for the unsung things he does for the team, Bowers had some prolific stats that dwarf Conklin's while at Georgia, I agree, but he isn't a Jet at this moment and he may or may not be Friday morning if the team's front office thinks the pick has worth elsewhere in our "All In" season... 

If Bowers is a Jet on Friday I'll defend and fully support him the same way I do Conklin.

That's where I'm at, thanks for the lively debate, no I'll will meant and no hard feelings... GO JETS!

[Jetkwondo]

1 hour ago, Bobby816 said:

So Bowers in SEC Champ and NCAA playoff games against the elite of the elite in NCAA had as many TDs as Conklin did playing against weak D1 competition as a senior.

 

That's what I got out of this. 

Yes, you are absolutely correct

[Claymation]

14 minutes ago, slats said:

That’s not my internal debate. First, I don’t know if Bowers will actually be able to play a traditional TE role or be more of the H-back/big slot that he’s generally associated with and second, I’d view any WR taken as WR2 by 2025. 
 
In their rookie years, I’d think they’d both be primarily taking reps away from Lazard, and I think the WR would be much more valuable in that role. 

Bower is 243 lbs., the same size as LaPorta.

I see him playing a traditional and a hybrid TE. It's why I am not on board getting rid of Conklin, because they will go 2 TE sets.

I don't see Garrett getting 168 targets this year, as the attack will be more balanced. But if the do draft a WR, either Williams or the new rookie receiver will get half of the targets Wilson gets.

[Jetkwondo]

33 minutes ago, slats said:

Lol, “last year’s Travis Kelce,” was Dalton Kincaid, that’s who I was referencing. 

Wow, sorry I made a joke as that went right over my head! 

[slats]

9 minutes ago, Claymation said:

Bower is 243 lbs., the same size as LaPorta.

I see him playing a traditional and a hybrid TE. It's why I am not on board getting rid of Conklin, because they will go 2 TE sets.

I don't see Garrett getting 168 targets this year, as the attack will be more balanced. But if the do draft a WR, either Williams or the new rookie receiver will get half of the targets Wilson gets.

Bowers admits to playing at 235 last year and was probably closer to 230. We haven’t seen him play with that extra weight yet. 
 
We agree that Bowers or a WR would largely take reps from Lazard, who would be off the field in most 12 personnel sets. I think the WR would wind up being more productive. 
 
Aaron Rodgers feeds his top targets, and I expect Wilson to get the lion’s share, with Breece and Williams battling for second. What I don’t see is Bowers coming in here and being the team’s #2 option like LaPorta or Kincaid did last year. No way do I see Williams or a rookie WR cutting into Wilson’s targets. 

[Larz]

Bucky Brooks just posted his last mock. 
 

Pick10

New York Jets

Brock Bowers

TE · JUNIOR

Operating in win-now mode with Aaron Rodgers at age 40, the Jets snag a big-bodied pass catcher with the capacity to dominate the middle of the field.

[Claymation]

29 minutes ago, Jetkwondo said:

Let's back up, who started posting cherry picked stats first?, that I simply called out as being unfair in that it was weighing college TD's percentage to NFL TD's percentage at the expense of making Conklin look bad. 

Conklin is a Jet who I support for the unsung things he does for the team, Bowers had some prolific stats that dwarf Conklin's while at Georgia, I agree, but he isn't a Jet at this moment and he may or may not be Friday morning if the team's front office thinks the pick has worth elsewhere in our "All In" season... 

If Bowers is a Jet on Friday I'll defend and fully support him the same way I do Conklin.

That's where I'm at, thanks for the lively debate, no I'll will meant and no hard feelings... GO JETS!

I wrote that Bowers had a TD every six times he touched the ball. And that Hershel scored a TD every 19 times.

How am I cherry picking stats? Hershel is considered the best Bulldog ever. Bowers is considered to be one of the best bulldogs.

I enjoyed the debate as well.

 

[Claymation]

8 minutes ago, slats said:

Bowers admits to playing at 235 last year and was probably closer to 230. We haven’t seen him play with that extra weight yet. 
 
We agree that Bowers or a WR would largely take reps from Lazard, who would be off the field in most 12 personnel sets. I think the WR would wind up being more productive. 
 
Aaron Rodgers feeds his top targets, and I expect Wilson to get the lion’s share, with Breece and Williams battling for second. What I don’t see is Bowers coming in here and being the team’s #2 option like LaPorta or Kincaid did last year. No way do I see Williams or a rookie WR cutting into Wilson’s targets. 

 But he is 243 now, and from the look of it, it probably isn't because he enjoys taylor ham egg and cheese sandwiches.

[slats]

Just now, Claymation said:

 But he is 243 now, and from the look of it, it probably isn't because he enjoys taylor ham egg and cheese sandwiches.

He’s also spent the offseason with a hamstring issue.