Jets OTA updates (6/4 Open to Media)

[freestater]

13 hours ago, JKlecko said:

makes little sense that so many QBs could be very good if not great in college, when a lot of them have never even had decent coaching, yet when they get to the NFL, they fail

It makes perfect sense. The level of competition is dramatically higher. Only a small percentage of NCAAF players ever make it to the pros. It's quite a bit easier to look like a good qb playing against future insurance salesmen. 

[HighPitch]

12 hours ago, HighPitch said:

Sperm Edwards is the greatest!!! OMG I love-love-love him!!!!!!

Hey!!!!! Max!!!!! Wth

[rtnelson]

17 hours ago, Beerfish said:

Two years ago Rodgers had his worst year as a pro since his rookie year, failed in the biggest game of the year and missed the playoffs, his much maligned replacement was outstanding last year for the packers.

He was hurt all last year.

He is over 40.

If he has a year this year as good as the much maligned Derrick Carr had last year for new orleans people will be dancing in the streets.

'Average' will become Elite to people here in a real hurry.

An 'Average' QB over the past two seasons puts the Jets in the playoffs.  It also appears that the team is even more talented than those two rosters.  If we get NFL average QB play, and clutch play in the playoffs there will be some excitement around here.  With good reason.

[Jetkwondo]

18 hours ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Shultz and kincaid had pretty much the same yardage last year as conky and played w/ much better qbs.  This is insanity what is going on around here.

More "Conky" updates for the insane asylum ...LOL 

https://www.newyorkjets.com/news/jets-tyler-conklin-big-step-aaron-rodgers

[JKlecko]

9 hours ago, freestater said:

It makes perfect sense. The level of competition is dramatically higher. Only a small percentage of NCAAF players ever make it to the pros. It's quite a bit easier to look like a good qb playing against future insurance salesmen. 

That's true to an extent, but I don't think it explains all of them.  Too many Heisman Trophy winners have been busts in the NFL.  Too manyh were great in college to not even being able to make it in the NFL.  As a teacher/coach myself, I think there is the distinct possibility that NFL teams, by virtue of how they handle rookie QBs, are responsible for so many of them failing?Obviously, there are more players at other positions, so more of them make it into the NFL, but I would be interested in seeing a per capita percentage of how many players at other positions make it into the NFL and have fairly long careers vs how many QBs make it.  Many wash out during or after their rookie contracts.  Some manage to hold on as journeymen backups.

Christian Hackenberg was on the Ross Tucker Podcast recently and he had this to say about the Jets: “There’s so many circumstances that go into it and and when I came out I still knew that I needed a lot that I needed to get better at but at the same token I had all these expectations and this narrative out there of this kid being really really good and like it was just this kind of battle internally and then externally with like messaging and and how things were being portrayed that I had to deal with and New York was probably the last place I should have gone to in terms of the market the expectations the way it was, and you know my rookie year we ended up keeping four quarterbacks so there was just not a lot of opportunity for me to develop and grow and no plan, kind of a up and down organization and it was just one of those things where I think just the timing and where it where it ended up just wasn't in the cards for me that position and then you know when I look at it introspectively I was young I needed a lot of help and I needed a lot of Direction and guidance and I never I never sought that out so that's where my shortcoming was is I didn't do all those things until it was ultimately too late”

It was sad to see what Hackenberg said, but not surprising. We all know how horrible Hackenberg looked.  We also know that the Jets haven't had anyone who could develop young QBs in forever, but that problem isn't just limited to the Jets. There's always these immediate expectations and pressures on young QB to put it together immediately, and often there's no plan or how to teach and develop them. I believe it to be more shotgun-like and sporadic, and that much is left to the QB himself to figure out. I think his comments are very revealing, not only about the internal and emotional struggles with which he had to contend, but also what Zach, and many other young QBs deal with upon entering into the NFL. On the one hand, they were praised, got lots of fame and accolades based on their play in college, were BMOC, had NFL teams scouting and speaking with them prior to the draft, but on the other hand, they're being expected to change, fix fundamentals that their coaches in HS and college never tried to correct or maybe only gave lip service to correcting. They get all this pressure, and often have to learn offenses that are more complex than any they've ever played in, that may not be conducive to their skill sets, try to learn to read complex NFL Ds, build chemistry with their receivers and OLs, and adjust to the speed of the NFL and facing more pressure than ever before, especially when the media views them as a franchise "savior." I'm surprised that more QBs haven't spoken about this. Hopefully, his comments will encourage others to open up, and help foster change in the NFL in the expectations of the teams that draft them, changes in the way they are coached and what they are taught, and changes in how quickly they play.   I could be wrong about this, but what if I'm right?  What if it's the way NFL teams handle rookie QBs that causes so many of them to fail unnecessarily?

[Jetkwondo]

On 6/5/2024 at 6:02 PM, Dcat said:

LOL.  Schultz Kincaid, Pitts all had more yardage and a combined 10 TDs. Conklin had zero.  Conklins yards per reception also significantly lower.   He doesn't score and he doesn't get the yards beyond the level of a Jag.  Conklin = Poster boy for what a "JAG" truly is.  The others are a bit above... as the stats show.   

 

I know we're beyond beating a dead horse at this point but you're making a false claim about YPR's.

You are correct on TD's but beyond that they are all the same"JAG" guy, by your standards, even though they all belong in the top third of all starting TE's by their stats. Even Pitts's best 12.6 YPR is canceled out by his terrible 2.5 YAC...   

My hunch is with Rodgers throwing to Conklin he gets about 2- 3 TD's this year

Yards 2023 Season -    Conklin  621     Shultz 635      Kincaid 673     Pitts 667

Yards Per Reception -   Conklin  10        Shultz 10.8     Kincaid 9.2      Pitts 12.6   

Yards After Catch -        Conklin  4.0       Shultz 4.5       Kincaid  4.3     Pitts  2.5

Drops                           -   Conklin  2          Shultz  3          Kincaid  4        Pitts 4

TD's                              -   Conklin  0          Shultz  5          Kincaid  2         Pitts 3

[Trotter]

18 hours ago, JKlecko said:

That's true to an extent, but I don't think it explains all of them.  Too many Heisman Trophy winners have been busts in the NFL.  Too manyh were great in college to not even being able to make it in the NFL.  As a teacher/coach myself, I think there is the distinct possibility that NFL teams, by virtue of how they handle rookie QBs, are responsible for so many of them failing?Obviously, there are more players at other positions, so more of them make it into the NFL, but I would be interested in seeing a per capita percentage of how many players at other positions make it into the NFL and have fairly long careers vs how many QBs make it.  Many wash out during or after their rookie contracts.  Some manage to hold on as journeymen backups.

Christian Hackenberg was on the Ross Tucker Podcast recently and he had this to say about the Jets: “There’s so many circumstances that go into it and and when I came out I still knew that I needed a lot that I needed to get better at but at the same token I had all these expectations and this narrative out there of this kid being really really good and like it was just this kind of battle internally and then externally with like messaging and and how things were being portrayed that I had to deal with and New York was probably the last place I should have gone to in terms of the market the expectations the way it was, and you know my rookie year we ended up keeping four quarterbacks so there was just not a lot of opportunity for me to develop and grow and no plan, kind of a up and down organization and it was just one of those things where I think just the timing and where it where it ended up just wasn't in the cards for me that position and then you know when I look at it introspectively I was young I needed a lot of help and I needed a lot of Direction and guidance and I never I never sought that out so that's where my shortcoming was is I didn't do all those things until it was ultimately too late”

It was sad to see what Hackenberg said, but not surprising. We all know how horrible Hackenberg looked.  We also know that the Jets haven't had anyone who could develop young QBs in forever, but that problem isn't just limited to the Jets. There's always these immediate expectations and pressures on young QB to put it together immediately, and often there's no plan or how to teach and develop them. I believe it to be more shotgun-like and sporadic, and that much is left to the QB himself to figure out. I think his comments are very revealing, not only about the internal and emotional struggles with which he had to contend, but also what Zach, and many other young QBs deal with upon entering into the NFL. On the one hand, they were praised, got lots of fame and accolades based on their play in college, were BMOC, had NFL teams scouting and speaking with them prior to the draft, but on the other hand, they're being expected to change, fix fundamentals that their coaches in HS and college never tried to correct or maybe only gave lip service to correcting. They get all this pressure, and often have to learn offenses that are more complex than any they've ever played in, that may not be conducive to their skill sets, try to learn to read complex NFL Ds, build chemistry with their receivers and OLs, and adjust to the speed of the NFL and facing more pressure than ever before, especially when the media views them as a franchise "savior." I'm surprised that more QBs haven't spoken about this. Hopefully, his comments will encourage others to open up, and help foster change in the NFL in the expectations of the teams that draft them, changes in the way they are coached and what they are taught, and changes in how quickly they play.   I could be wrong about this, but what if I'm right?  What if it's the way NFL teams handle rookie QBs that causes so many of them to fail unnecessarily?

The Jets certainly did not do him any favors but the reality is Hack from day one simply did not belong on a professional football field behind center.

Mccagnan loved him but the sign was there when his own coach at Penn St who was now running Houston and strong competition to Mccagnan as the worst GM passed on him in the draft.  

[Dcat]

1 hour ago, Jetkwondo said:

I know we're beyond beating a dead horse at this point but you're making a false claim about YPR's.

You are correct on TD's but beyond that they are all the same"JAG" guy, by your standards, even though they all belong in the top third of all starting TE's by their stats. Even Pitts's best 12.6 YPR is canceled out by his terrible 2.5 YAC...   

My hunch is with Rodgers throwing to Conklin he gets about 2- 3 TD's this year

Yards 2023 Season -    Conklin  621     Shultz 635      Kincaid 673     Pitts 667

Yards Per Reception -   Conklin  10        Shultz 10.8     Kincaid 9.2      Pitts 12.6   

Yards After Catch -        Conklin  4.0       Shultz 4.5       Kincaid  4.3     Pitts  2.5

Drops                           -   Conklin  2          Shultz  3          Kincaid  4        Pitts 4

TD's                              -   Conklin  0          Shultz  5          Kincaid  2         Pitts 3

Conklin has far less value than the others. 1.  He doesn't score.  2. Throughout his career, Rodgers uses TE well below average.   He had a couple of good ones too.  

Finally, when you factor snap count totals while comparing Conklin's production to that of the others mentioned, it's obvious  that Conklin is below the others.  Not far from Pitts who has been a major disappointment for his draft position.   

Offensive snaps and % of offensive snaps:
Conklin - 772, 70.1%
Pitts - 728, 64.4%
Schultz - 739, 65.2%
Kincaid - 699, 60.1%

If you run a poll of which TE one would want on his NFL team, Kincaid is the clear winner in this group.  I'll give Pitts an asterisk because of the chaos that has been the Atlanta offense, but give me Kincaid.

 

[bicketybam]

The Great Conky Debate 2024!

[56mehl56]

On 6/5/2024 at 5:25 PM, Doggin94it said:

That's correct - Rodgers has never had a gamebreaking TE. That doesn't mean he wouldn't put one to good use. "TE is not a featured position for this offense" - I promise you that if Ruckert were looking like Travis Kelce or Sam LaPorta in practices, it would be. 

It wasn't a featured position in Kyle Shanahan's offenses - until the 9ers got Kittle, and then it was

This is sort of like the chicken/egg argument - does the offense create the player or does the player create the offense. I'd argue that to date Rodgers offenses have been predicated on getting the ball downfield , if he had a great TE like you mentioned would that have changed their approach. Or did guys like Kelce , LaPorta etc benefit from the system the team was running. I'm sure in reality its somewhere in between . 

[Jetkwondo]

2 hours ago, Dcat said:

Conklin has far less value than the others. 1.  He doesn't score.  2. Throughout his career, Rodgers uses TE well below average.   He had a couple of good ones too.  

Finally, when you factor snap count totals while comparing Conklin's production to that of the others mentioned, it's obvious  that Conklin is below the others.  Not far from Pitts who has been a major disappointment for his draft position.   

Offensive snaps and % of offensive snaps:
Conklin - 772, 70.1%
Pitts - 728, 64.4%
Schultz - 739, 65.2%
Kincaid - 699, 60.1%

If you run a poll of which TE one would want on his NFL team, Kincaid is the clear winner in this group.  I'll give Pitts an asterisk because of the chaos that has been the Atlanta offense, but give me Kincaid.

 

I think we agree on most of all this as I put Conklin last amongst these 4 TE's, who I think all rate in the top 25 of TE's in recent articles rating them. Also Conklin has proved he can score 3 TD"s in a season which he did in both 2021 & 2022 which is why I think it is probable with Rodgers. Kincaid is a rising player while I think Conklin has platued so I would take Kincaid as well.

The whole "JAG" opinion thing is what forced this off the rails and to perpetuate, I focus only on data driven facts .

[Jimmy 2 Times]

On 6/5/2024 at 10:23 AM, bicketybam said:

No look pass!

I saw him peek.

 

 

[Joe W. Namath]

4 hours ago, bicketybam said:

The Great Conky Debate 2024!

Give me Conky or give me death.

[Joejet]

11 minutes ago, Joe W. Namath said:

Give me Conky or give me death.

B

[Jetkwondo]

Nice finish to OTA's this week...

 

[Jetkwondo]

3 hours ago, Jetkwondo said:

I think we agree on most of all this as I put Conklin last amongst these 4 TE's, who I think all rate in the top 25 of TE's in recent articles rating them. Also Conklin has proved he can score 3 TD"s in a season which he did in both 2021 & 2022 which is why I think it is probable with Rodgers. Kincaid is a rising player while I think Conklin has platued so I would take Kincaid as well.

The whole "JAG" opinion thing is what forced this off the rails and to perpetuate, I focus only on data driven facts .

I just want to add that I just read my 2nd article highlighting Conklin since we started this discussion coming out of these OTA's . This time Conklin is listed as one of two Hidden gems on the Jets. I think they read our threads....LOL

https://clutchpoints.com/2-hidden-gems-jets-2024-roster

 

Look: I get that Bowers is a phenomenal prospect, but it's not like the Jets needed a tight end. They already have a good one in Tyler Conklin.

These days, it's like everyone expects your tight end to play like Travis Kelce or George Kittle. That's just not realistic for the vast majority of tight ends in the league. You can still be a good tight end and not do things like set NFL records. A happy medium exists.

That's where Conklin sits.

 

[bicketybam]

In two years with the Jets, he (Conklin) ranks seventh among tight ends in receptions (119) and 10th in receiving yards (1,173). And that happened with no stability at quarterback. If Rodgers stays healthy, it should raise everyone's numbers.

https://www.espn.com/nfl/story/_/id/40299618/new-york-jets-prep-mandatory-minicamp-haason-reddick