ALL Mike Vick News (Merged 39X)

[Ryno the Jet]

Vick is a different situation altogether. he was at the draft in Apr representing Va Tech. the guy is an embassador for the league with no prior charges.

Ambassadors do not give their lifeblood the dirty bird, please.

Hey guys - guess what - you aren't the judges or the jury.

We are supposed to be a civilized society

what many people are advocating is essentially mob justice

This is America and Vick gets the same rights as anyone else.

Love it or leave it. Maybe you guys would be more comfortable in North Korea, China or Iran?

ya know, places where justice is swift and brutal.

Nobody is saying put him away without a trial, but most people would be suspended from their jobs upon receiving a federal indictment! Why should he get a pass. ESPN is reporting right now they are going to ask Vick to voluntarily take a leave of absence; hmmm, I wonder why. Don't call me a communist b/c I refuse to support thugs in a league I spend a good amount of time and money on.

the rights that our soldiers have sacrificed for apply to everyone,

even Mike Vick.

Are you serious with this? Our soldiers died and are dying so Vick can play in the NFL? C'mon man. His criminal punishment will come after his trial, those are his rights. It is a privilege to play in the NFL!

[bitonti]

im not talking about the right to play in the NFL.

Amendment VI

Right to a fair trialIn all criminal prosecutions, the accused shall enjoy the right to a speedy and public trial, by an impartial jury of the State and district wherein the crime shall have been committed; which district shall have been previously ascertained by law, and to be informed of the nature and cause of the accusation; to be confronted with the witnesses against him; to have compulsory process for obtaining witnesses in his favor, and to have the assistance of counsel for his defence.

[Ryno the Jet]

im not talking about the right to play in the NFL.

The title of the thread is "Vick to continue to play." Who the hell is saying that he should not have a trial?

[Ryno the Jet]

i agree with Gainzo

if the NFL suspends vick it will set a nasty precident

the NFLPA would s--t a brick

the legal process needs to run it's course

it's not the job of the NFL or the fans to hand out vigilante justice

hmmm...this was only a page ago...

[bitonti]

ryno if the NFL takes action it will be making its own judgements prior to the federal court system

imagine a situation where they suspend him and vick beats the charges

he could sue the NFL and rightfully so

this whole piling on thing is out of control

there is a justice system in this country for a reason

the NFL is not above the law

[16G-MONEY]

Nobody is saying put him away without a trial, but most people would be suspended from their jobs upon receiving a federal indictment! Why should he get a pass. ESPN is reporting right now they are going to ask Vick to voluntarily take a leave of absence; hmmm, I wonder why. Don't call me a communist b/c I refuse to support thugs in a league I spend a good amount of time and money on.

No one disagrees with that, but let's make sure he IS a thug first.

[Ryno the Jet]

ryno if the NFL takes action it will be making its own judgements prior to the federal court system

imagine a situation where they suspend him and vick beats the charges

he could sue the NFL and rightfully so

this whole piling on thing is out of control

there is a justice system in this country for a reason

the NFL is not above the law

I am sorry, but you are wrong IMO. On the contrary, if he is found guilty, the league supported a criminal. If they suspend him with pay, then he has no cause to file complaints. The NFL is a business. Their obligations lie in propagation of said business. Allowing Vick to play is bad for business, period.

[bitonti]

i was talking legal but if we want to talk business

we might not believe it but suspending Atlanta's only chance to be competative this year is actually worse for business

don't forget ATL in a major media market and plays on national TV several times this season

no one is going to want to tune into MNF to watch Joey harrington

[Ryno the Jet]

No one disagrees with that, but let's make sure he IS a thug first.

I didn't think anyone was deliberating that verdict; you mean your jury is still hung on his worthiness of the thug title? He's the king of hotlanta for god's sakes!

[#27TheDominator]

ryno if the NFL takes action it will be making its own judgements prior to the federal court system

imagine a situation where they suspend him and vick beats the charges

he could sue the NFL and rightfully so

this whole piling on thing is out of control

there is a justice system in this country for a reason

the NFL is not above the law

...yet Pacman Jones has not been convicted of any crime since joining the NFL. Seems like the NFL already decided it was "above the law". Jones got an unprecedented full year suspension-you're going to tell me a federal felony indictment with gambling implications doesn't warrant a few games? A fine?

[Ryno the Jet]

i was talking legal but if we want to talk business

we might not believe it but suspending Atlanta's only chance to be competative this year is actually worse for business

don't forget ATL in a major media market and plays on national TV several times this season

no one is going to want to tune into MNF to watch Joey harrington

The NFL is much bigger than Atlanta, please. The NFL has grown to the juggernaut that it is while the Falcons camped out in the basement. The only reason they have peaked their dreary heads out is b/c they drafted this scumbag who appeals to the mentality of their city.

[DMaynard]

I think when all is said and done on this, Michael Vick is going to be so unpopular he will not be able to get elected Dog Warden.

[jetophile]

I think when all is said and done on this, Michael Vick is going to be so unpopular he will not be able to get elected Dog Warden.

I'm thinking he gets impounded.

[Ryno the Jet]

I'm thinking he gets impounded.

Oh finally, you're back...have you read the transcripts of today?

[joewilly]

Oh finally, you're back...have you read the transcripts of today?

I did. I can't get my head around precedent............... why is the pacman case different from the vick case. be it fair or not vick has stained the nfls brand moreso than pacman because of his popularity

[Ryno the Jet]

I did. I can't get my head around precedent............... why is the pacman case different from the vick case. be it fair or not vick has stained the nfls brand moreso than pacman because of his popularity

agreed...like it or not, Vick's name is now synonymous with thug...the NFL's new creed is out with thugs...well, then he's outta here, or f'ing should be!

[joewilly]

agreed...like it or not, Vick's name is now synonymous with thug...the NFL's new creed is out with thugs...well, then he's outta here, or f'ing should be!

yeah, it was pretty easy for goodell to put his stamp on the new office with a crushing message at pacman's expense. noone really cared or defended pacman.

not so easy with vick though & the lines have now been blurred.

[Jet Moses]

I think it was friends and family that lived in the house. Any chance any of them come from Newport News?

So if it were ****fighting you'd be fine with it?

No. Eating meat does not = condoning animals being tortured. Maybe by PETA's standards, yes. But lets not get into a moral equivalency that suggests eating a McChiken sandwich puts you in the same category as what vick was doing.

[penguini 15]

He has one of the biggest salaries in the NFL and should be suspended for a year maximum.

[StraightCash]

He has one of the biggest salaries in the NFL and should be suspended for a year maximum.

Year MAXIMUM? I was more thinking year minimum...

[Jet Moses]

There is a world of difference between slashing a chickens throat, defeathering, butchering and cooking and eating it, because you were hungry. As opposed to slashing it up with a razor, cutting its eyes out, avulsing its flesh, and then burying it in a ditch in your yard, because it amused you.

You have to be a sicker f*ck to do that to a dog.

[#27TheDominator]

There is a world of difference between slashing a chickens throat, defeathering, butchering and cooking and eating it, because you were hungry. As opposed to slashing it up with a razor, cutting its eyes out, avulsing its flesh, and then burying it in a ditch in your yard, because it amused you.

You have to be a sicker f*ck to do that to a dog.

That's all true, but you tried to condemn Vick compared to people eating chicken because a chicken never pulled a man from a burning building. That's not the ****ing difference. The difference is that the dog fighting dude is killing and abusing animals for sport. Not for food. **** fighting would be horrible as well, even if you and I like dogs better than chickens. You'd have to be a sick ****er to do that to a chicken too. My only point with the comment.

[Gainzo]

This is probably the best option for Vick, the Falcons, and the NFL.

From espn.com

ATLANTA -- In what has quickly evolved into a collaborative effort that includes input of officials from the NFL, NFL Players Association and Atlanta Falcons, embattled quarterback Michael Vick could be urged to take a voluntary leave of absence to focus his energy on the legal challenges from a federal dogfighting indictment confronting him, sources said.

There are, however, two critical components that must be resolved: Falcons owner Arthur Blank must be on board with a plan that has generated considerable discussion at the league level the past two days. And Vick, who might be reluctant to accept even a paid hiatus from the game, might have to be convinced that the leave could be his best option.

Blank and the Falcons might also be considering other options.

Under the leave-of-absence scenario, and given the projected timeline of any trial that could ensue from the federal indictments brought against the quarterback Tuesday, all parties would enter into the agreement, if it is consummated, with the expectation that Vick would probably miss the entire 2007 season.

While the concept of a leave has been broached conceptually to associates and advisors of Vick, it has not yet been formally presented to the Falcons' star. Vick, 27, could be briefed about the possibility of a paid leave of absence as early as Friday. He would likely be granted time to consider the suggestion, which would almost certainly have to be communicated by Blank, with a decision not coming until early next week.

It has become clear, as high-level discussions have progressed, that all the parties involved in the talks are desperately seeking a resolution to a potential public relations disaster before the Falcons begin training camp Thursday. A league source acknowledged Thursday that "something one way or the other is going to have to happen ... by the start of training camp."

As incentive for Vick to consider a leave, the union is hopeful that Blank will offer to guarantee the player's $6 million base salary for 2007. That could be a sticking point in negotiations. No one will try to bully Vick into accepting the leave, but he might be reminded that while the league and Falcons are inclined for now to allow due process to play out in the courts, that stance is not an unalterable one, and unfolding events could possibly change the approach of Blank and commissioner Roger Goodell.

Sources said that NFLPA executive director Gene Upshaw spoke directly with Vick late Thursday. A union official did not divulge details of the conversation but Upshaw was expected to counsel Vick on the wisdom on a paid leave of absence.

Multiple sources at various levels of the ongoing discussions acknowledged that a consensus was beginning to galvanize that nobody, including Vick, will benefit by the quarterback playing the 2007 season under a cloud of suspicion and burden of the federal indictment. In the indictment, Vick is alleged to have conspired in an illegal dogfighting venture conducted on property he owns in Surry County, Va.

Intensive talks continued Thursday with Goodell, Blank, Falcons team president and general manager Rich McKay and Upshaw. They discussed the various options available to them, and those discussions are expected to continue Friday. If convicted on all counts, Vick could face a prison sentence of six years.

Neither Vick nor his attorney or agent could be reached for comment Thursday night. Blank also was unavailable for comment, and a Falcons spokesman referred to the owner's statement released earlier Thursday in which he expressed that "we are working diligently on exploring our options."

"The commissioner is concerned about the seriousness of the charges, and he wants to make sure Vick focuses on putting up the most appropriate defense," a source said. "Vick has to be convinced that it is in his best interests to take a leave of absence ... I think it's fair to say nobody's really comfortable with him playing under these circumstances."

Even a close Vick associate acknowledged early Friday that is the case.

Said the associate: "There's been a lot of stuff going on the last day or so, but the one thing that keeps getting clearer and clearer is that they don't want [Vick] around. The Falcons, the league, they know it's a mess and it's only going to get uglier if camp starts and he's on the field. If he's not [present for camp], at least there's a little bit of 'out of sight, out of mind,' you know? It removes the source of distraction. Otherwise, it's just [untenable]."

A leave of absence would at least temporarily address several possible dilemmas for the Falcons, including how to handle Vick's contract if he does not report to camp on time. And it would enable the franchise, even if Vick doesn't play in 2007, to retain his contractual rights. Vick is scheduled for a bond hearing and his arraignment hearing Thursday, the same day the Falcons hold their initial camp practice under first-year coach Bobby Petrino.

Without an excused absence, Vick could technically be in default of his contract if he does not report to camp on time, perhaps providing the Falcons the right to attempt to recover bonus money already paid to him. There are default provisions, described by one source with close knowledge of Vick's contract as "very tight language," written into the lucrative 10-year extension he signed in December 2004. Vick advisors spent time Thursday discussing the potential default ramifications with NFLPA officials.

Members of the NFL management council, the labor arm of the league, earlier this week began closely reviewing Vick's contract to see what options might be available to Blank and the Falcons if they try to recover any bonus payments.

The 2004 extension has long been advertised as a 10-year, $130 million contract. In reality, because the final season of the contract voided as soon as Vick reached minimum playing-time thresholds, it is a nine-year deal worth about $118 million. Vick has banked more than $40 million, but $37 million of that was in bonuses -- an initial signing bonus of $7.5 million and then subsequent roster bonuses of $22.5 million and $7 million. But for salary-cap purposes, the Falcons exercised an option to convert the roster bonuses into signing bonuses.

That might seem incidental because Vick got all the money coming to him anyway. But if the Falcons attempt at some point to force Vick into paying back part of the bonus money, how the conversions are interpreted might be a point of contention. A ruling in a grievance case involving former Denver first-round wide receiver Ashley Lelie last year made it more difficult for teams to seek repayment of option or roster bonuses.

Atlanta officials might contend that the two most recent bonuses paid Vick, totaling $29.5 million, were converted to signing bonuses, and that they should be permitted to pursue a prorated share of that money. The Vick camp would likely counter that, while the money was paid as signing bonuses, it was actually earned as roster bonuses.

But any contentiousness, and a possible arbitration hearing, could be avoided if Vick accepts a proposal for a leave of absence, one in which all parties agree he will miss camp.

"It would certainly give everyone some much-needed breathing room," said one league source late Thursday night. "People could get on with their business."

Make no mistake, for both the Falcons and the NFL, there is clearly a business component attached to the Vick case.

The league faces a backlash, not only from animal-rights groups but from others, as well. And in the statement Blank released Thursday, he noted his responsibility to his sponsors. The team recently entered into an agreement with Russell Athletic in which the apparel maker will pay $1 million to $2 million annually to sponsor the Falcons' training camp. It could be a camp disrupted by protests if Vick attends.

In another Vick-related matter, the quarterback's camp has begun interviewing candidates to beef up his legal defense team in the event he goes to trial. Vick's longtime personal attorney, Lawrence Woodward, is expected to remain part of the defense team, but advisors have urged that the Falcons' star to consider adding counsel with experience in federal courts.

The Vick camp has solicited recommendations and is believed to have interviewed at least one prominent defender from the prestigious Washington, D.C., firm of Wilmer Hale.

Len Pasquarelli is a senior NFL writer for ESPN.com. Television reporter Chris Mortensen covers the NFL for ESPN.

[jetophile]

Yeah, I heard that on the radio earlier, G. In all honesty, I don't think he'd be able to survive the barrage of verbal abuse during games that surely awaits him. It wouldn't surprise me if he's getting death threats. I certainly do not condone any such thing, just saying it wouldn't surprise me. And, I would think his personal safety has also got be an issue of growing concern. While I think the whole thing he's accused of is repulsive by its very nature, there a lot of loose cannons out there. I think this is how the union and the league is covering itself, by 'asking' him to voluntarily walk away. Not to be confused with how much of a Class A sc*mbag I think he is.

[Gainzo]

Yeah, I heard that on the radio earlier, G. In all honesty, I don't think he'd be able to survive the barrage of verbal abuse during games that surely awaits him. It wouldn't surprise me if he's getting death threats. I certainly do not condone any such thing, just saying it wouldn't surprise me. And, believe it or not, I would think his personal safety has also got be an issue. While I think the whole thing he's accused of is repulsive by its very nature, there a lot of loose cannons out there. I think this is how the union and the league is covering itself, by 'asking' him to voluntarily walk away. Not to be confused with how much of a Class A sc*mbag I think he is.

I agree.

For everyone's sake this is the best way to go. The sticking point is probably going to be his salary. Will Blank pay it?

[war ensemble]

I agree.

For everyone's sake this is the best way to go. The sticking point is probably going to be his salary. Will Blank pay it?

That's the best way to go. Technically Vick is innocent until proven guilty, so there would also be an uproar that it's unfair to suspend him before trial. So the league took the safe route, although your article has an even better plan. Pacman is a totally different story, he had multiple prior offenses and was warned that one more time and he'd face discipline, so when that happened he was suspended immediately.

[Jet Moses]

That's all true, but you tried to condemn Vick compared to people eating chicken because a chicken never pulled a man from a burning building. That's not the ****ing difference. The difference is that the dog fighting dude is killing and abusing animals for sport. Not for food. **** fighting would be horrible as well, even if you and I like dogs better than chickens. You'd have to be a sick ****er to do that to a chicken too. My only point with the comment.

I agree. You have to be a lowlife engaged in co*ckfighting or dogfighting. It's the same depravity. If that was your point, I agree. In terms of human activity, both groups are one rung above Ed Gein on the food chain. But in terms of animals, I put a dog above a chicken. Just like I'd put a chicken above a rat, and a rat above a worm etc.

Maybe I expanded the horizon to much on the topic, as I was thinking about PETA setting the standards on this. PETA is extremist to other degree.

If Mike Vick was doing c*ckfighting, I'd still think he was a scumbag, but no way would I think this was as big a deal as I do if it was roosters, but it's dogs.

Dogs have been awarded medals by our military.

Dogs respond to fear, love, kindness et al. We have all had dogs that were our friends. We've made friends through dogs. Dogs are family. This hits close when a sick bastard takes these beatiful animals and tortures and kills them, and chucks them in a ditch like a peice of sh#t.

If somebody was hungry, and killed a dog, OK. We can accept that.

Maybe 'cos I eat chickens I don't think as highly of them, or maybe it's 'cos chickens have never helped a blind person cross a road or dragged somebody out of a burning building. I don't think they have the mental capacity and I've never felt any emotional attachment to a chicken. That isn't to say I would condone torturing and mutilating chickens for amusement.

But I've felt an emotional attachment to a dog.

Dogs express unconditional love and loyalty. There isn't too many human beings you can say that about. In fact, I don't think you say that about any of us.

It's just the essence of vulgarity and depravity to violate the trust of those dogs- and Vick had them as puppies- and turn them into vicious killers trained to rip each other to shreds.

Again, how anyone could defend this lowlife POS is beyond me.

[crackbackblock]

This is just my opinion but personally, I hope Vick decides he is going to play and forces either Blank, Goodell or both to handle this. If Vick was accused of this and was a HD employee he would already be collecting unemployment. Ditto if Vick worked in the NFL offices. I want the league to have to make the call. I want the Birds to make this call. I don't want them to do this behind the scenes and make Vick look like he understands the gravity of what has happened. Because he doesn't. He never has and never will. If that had been the case he would have known what was going on on HIS property in the first place. The only thing Vick understands is that he is in trouble. He doesn't care why. As for the NFLPA. If they had REAL power then all contracts would be guaranteed. What is that POS Upshaw going to do? Take Mike Vick's cause to the press? The only people they can take poor Vick's case to are Vick's fellow dogfighting and associated thug-life scum. The union has absolutely no good defense of Vick that I can see. I am sure Blank has conduct provisions in Vick's contract. We know the NFL has rules of conduct. I want them to enforce them. Vick should not be paid. Again he has made plenty of money and he will survive. If things get tight he call sell some of his Thug mobiles (Hummers/Escalades, etc.).

[jetophile]

JM: Can't say I disagree with what you said. Here's my take. Folks eat dogs and cats out of necessity in other countries, and how in Hell can anyone ever have an attitude with that when people are starving? Grain seems to be a larger issue as to starvation in many places, but anyone who would begrudge the dog/cat for food and sustenance in desperate straits is a moron.

Still, there are ways - and then there are ways - to assuage suffering in order to FEED oneself. Not happy with what happened recently in China as an aside. Can't you just SHOOT the dogs in the head? People were run over with tanks in Tiananmen Square, so far be it from them to give a street dog a slug in the head (and let us not forget China was rewarded with Free Trade Status in the aftermath of that). Beating dogs to death with bats takes longer, even though it works. I'd love to know if anyone was fed, even though the SARS scare was the supposed catalyst. Tyranny, and no-one will call it as it is.

I live in the greatest country the world has ever seen, this our United States, where I can CHOOSE what I WANT to eat. How many times have I said that here and elsewhere. So, I choose not to eat meat or poultry - because I can. That being said, I don't demonize anyone who chooses to do so. It's a huge part of our economy (beef, pigs, lambs, chickens), and who am I to take away someone's living? The only thing I DO diss is method, which is why I no longer eat meat. Because again, I live in the greatest country in the world and I can freely choose not to.

This conversation could leech out everywhere. I don't feed my dogs cornflakes. My shoes are made of leather. This county's economy lived on whaling, extremely cognizant mammals. I'm thinking my final thought is torture on any level is wrong, and human beings should know better. But we don't, and never will.

[Jet Moses]

JM: Can't say I disagree with what you said. Here's my take. Folks eat dogs and cats out of necessity in other countries, and how in Hell can anyone ever have an attitude with that when people are starving? Grain seems to be a larger issue as to starvation in many places, but anyone who would begrudge the dog/cat for food and sustenance in desperate straits is a moron.

Still, there are ways - and then there are ways - to assuage suffering in order to FEED oneself. Not happy with what happened recently in China as an aside. Can't you just SHOOT the dogs in the head? People were run over with tanks in Tiananmen Square, so far be it from them to give a street dog a slug in the head (and let us not forget China was rewarded with Free Trade Status in the aftermath of that). Beating dogs to death with bats takes longer, even though it works. I'd love to know if anyone was fed, even though the SARS scare was the supposed catalyst. Tyranny, and no-one will call it as it is.

I live in the greatest country the world has ever seen, this our United States, where I can CHOOSE what I WANT to eat. How many times have I said that here and elsewhere. So, I choose not to eat meat or poultry - because I can. That being said, I don't demonize anyone who chooses to do so. It's a huge part of our economy (beef, pigs, lambs, chickens), and who am I to take away someone's living? The only thing I DO diss is method, which is why I no longer eat meat. Because again, I live in the greatest country in the world and I can freely choose not to.

This conversation could leech out everywhere. I don't feed my dogs cornflakes. My shoes are made of leather. This county's economy lived on whaling, extremely cognizant mammals. I'm thinking my final thought is torture on any level is wrong, and human beings should know better. But we don't, and never will.

That is a deep and profound post.

I'm reading God Is Not Great by Christopher Hitchens. A poignant excerpt:

...this fine beast is one of our fairly close cousins. It shares a great deal of our DNA, and there have lately been welcome transplants of skin, heart valves, and kidneys from pigs to humans. If--which I heartily trust does not happen--a new Dr. Moreau could corrupt recent advances in cloning and create a hybrid, a "pig-man" is widely feared as the most probable outcome. Meanwhile, almost everything about the pig is useful, from its nutritious and delicious meat to its tanned hide for leather and its bristles for brushes. In Upton Sinclair's graphic novel of the Chicago slaughterhouse, The Jungle, it is agonizing to read about th way that pigs are borne aloft on hooks, screaming as their throats are cut. Even the strongest nerves of the most hardened workers are shaken by the experience. There is something about that shriek...

I've contemplated vegetarianism (and you are right, I am afforded that luxury and convenience because I live in a country with an abundance of food and choices), but have concluded it just isn't practical. Morally, I wish I could hunt and kill my own meat, but this too, is impractical.

Life is a journey, not a destination. Let the voyage continue.

[jetophile]

That is a deep and profound post.

I'm reading God Is Not Great by Christopher Hitchens. A poignant excerpt....

I dig Hitchens. He's a mix of left and right. He flogged Michael Moore and set him on fire in the past. Gotta respect that.

[Gainzo]

Lets get back on track.

Vick has been accused of a crime(s) and has already been convicted in the court of public opinion.

Due process people.

[jetophile]

Lets get back on track.

Vick has been accused of a crime(s) and has already been convicted in the court of public opinion.

Due process people.

Methinks you're off the beaten path again.

[JetCane]

Interesting point, gainzo, but the general public, and me, and you, are entitled to form an opinion about the activities he was allegedly participating in while he was an NFL player and a public figure.

My opinion doesnt have to be beyond a reasonable doubt unless I am sitting on a jury. If the allegations are proven in a court of law, then he'll be convicted and sentenced.

But i can freely form an opinion based on the current news footage and the circumstantial evidence that has been discussed in the media.

Impound him!

[Gainzo]

Interesting point, gainzo, but the general public, and me, and you, are entitled to form an opinion about the activities he was allegedly participating in while he was an NFL player and a public figure.

My opinion doesnt have to be beyond a reasonable doubt unless I am sitting on a jury. If the allegations are proven in a court of law, then he'll be convicted and sentenced.

But i can freely form an opinion based on the current news footage and the circumstantial evidence that has been discussed in the media.

Impound him!

No worries mate as I respect you and your opionions. We just happen to disagree on this one.