Jetsfan80 Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Boston traded 2 good players for Beckett and he's making 5 million. Wang makes 500k. Thats why beckett is a dissipointment and if you don't admit that you're not being honest. Josh Beckett was a World Series MVP. He is worth the money he is being paid. What the hell has Wang done in his career? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Josh Beckett was a World Series MVP. He is worth the money he is being paid. What the hell has Wang done in his career? Scott Brosius was a world series MVP too. That award means you had a good week not that you're a good player. Beckett's never made 30 starts. He was a 500 pitcher with MAJOR injury issues before this year and he's been a dissipointment in the AL while Hanley Ramriez is gonna finish first or 2nd in the ROTY voting and Sanchez is still a decent prospect. Boston will regret this trade for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mbn007 Posted July 13, 2006 Share Posted July 13, 2006 Wang is a special type of pitcher, because of his heavy sinking fastball, the comes in at 94 even in the 8th inning. His unreal GB ratio to total outs (not his super GB/FB ratio, but his GB/TO ratio is off the charts. This makes WHIP and other "scorings" of pitchers almost useless in his case. When you give up as many GB as he does, you will give up a lot of hits, as some of those grounders get through, unless Ozzie Smith plays all 4 positions of your infield. Beckett, while he has had his share of solid starts, has not been the replacement for Pedro, or for Shilling, as the media seemed to project him to be. In this regard, he has been a disappointment. Bad pitcher? Not at all. Stud? Not yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted July 13, 2006 Author Share Posted July 13, 2006 Scott Brosius was a world series MVP too. That award means you had a good week not that you're a good player. Beckett's never made 30 starts. He was a 500 pitcher with MAJOR injury issues before this year and he's been a dissipointment in the AL while Hanley Ramriez is gonna finish first or 2nd in the ROTY voting and Sanchez is still a decent prospect. Boston will regret this trade for a while. Don't forget we also got Mike Lowell in the deal, so there are no regrets there at all. Hanley was wavering in AAA and was very up and down. He could turn into something special, but his pace has slowed since the beginning of the year. Sanchez rates out to be a bottom of the rotation starter and with all of the young guns we have it was definitely worth it to take a top of the rotation starter for years to come in Beckett. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 Good start for Lester tonight by the way LOL 5ip 5h 5walks getting that WHIP up to 2 lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFSIKH Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 Good start for Lester tonight by the way LOL 5ip 5h 5walks getting that WHIP up to 2 lol How many runs did he give up? I guess all those ground ball outs he induced means nothing seeing he did it right? Do you even try to make a valid argument? A pitcher that has over 50 career wins and as 80 pointed out a WS MVP, is not worth more then a pitcher with 17 career wins and one post season appearance? I mean, the heart of that MVP was only Beckett coming back on 3 days rest in the House that Ruth built on the Ultimate stage and shutting out the Yankees in a complete game victory. I guess using your Yankee revisionist history, that is not worth anything right? What is Wang's big moment? Major injuries? Blisters. We are talking about blisters. Blisters. Not Tommy John surgery. Blisters. Not torn rotator cuff. Blisters. 8 of his 11 trips to the DL are due to.....blisters. A .500 pitcher? That is your next best argument? Who was he a .500 pitcher for? The Marlins. In his four full seasons withthe Marlins, they were a combined 24 games over .500. He was 7. mbn It has been half a season. Look at his numbers at 26 compared to theirs. Pedro was clearly the best of the bunch, but Beckett was far ahead of Schilling at a similar point. I think we can all agree, when Pedro was at the height of his career, he was special. As in Top 5 all-time special performances. Beckett is going to be good, but probably not that good. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted July 14, 2006 Author Share Posted July 14, 2006 Good start for Lester tonight by the way LOL 5ip 5h 5walks getting that WHIP up to 2 lol And he only gave up 1 run and his stuff was at his worst tonight. That is the markings of a good pitcher. Don't even try to argue the point anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 And he only gave up 1 run and his stuff was at his worst tonight. That is the markings of a good pitcher. Don't even try to argue the point anymore. Why because you say so? So far his numbers are about 5th starter caliber. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 How many runs did he give up? I guess all those ground ball outs he induced means nothing seeing he did it right? Do you even try to make a valid argument? All those groundballs? What are you talking about. His G/F is 1.12 thats HORRIBLE. Wang's is well over 3. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 Arguing against the SOX young pitching is rediculous. Using certain stats against a young pitcher is also lame as all young pitchers have areas that need improvement.,,,,(Wang for instance with runners on base.) The Sox have 3 rookie pitchers in Papelbon, Hansen and Lester playing major roles on a 1st place team. The Sox had a brilliant off season while the media and fans blasted them and it's time to give them credit for that. Even defensive whiz Alex Gonzalez has brought his average up to the .280 range. Beckett is giving up too many long balls but calling hi a disappointment is a little much. We have all seen what he can do on the stadium mound come October. Wang, Cano, Lester and Papelbon will all be big time players for years to come. Beckett at 26, Crisp at 25 was and remains a no brainer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 Arguing against the SOX young pitching is redicolous. Using certain stats against a young pitcher is also lame as all young pitchers have areas that need improvement.,,,,(Wang for instance with runners on base.) The Sox have 3 rookie pitchers in Papelbon, Hansen and Lester playing major roles on a 1st place team. The Sox had a brilliant off season while the media and fans blasted them and it's time to give them credit for that. Even defensive whiz Alex Gonzalez has brought his average up to the .280 range. Beckett is giving up too many long balls but calling hi a disappointment is a little much. We have all seen what he can do on the stadium mound come October. Wng, Cano, Lester and Papelbon will all be big time players for years to come. Beckett at 26, Crisp at 25 was and remains a no brainer. Papelbon has been great but lumping Hansen and Lester in with him just bacuse they are young is moronic. Hansen blew another game last night and his ERA is over 5.5 and his whip and k/9 are average at best. He's gotten hit hard all year and has shown no command. Lester is only a prospect based on one good year in AA. He was mediocore in AAA this year and his numbers are VERY mediocore in the majors this year just like he's been his entire minor league carrer untill last year. Even in his good year he had bad control too 3.5BB/9. The guy is WAY overhyped. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted July 14, 2006 Author Share Posted July 14, 2006 Why because you say so? So far his numbers are about 5th starter caliber. What more do you want from a rookie? 4th/4th starter is exactly what he is. He gave up 1 run with his worst stuff of the year. Those are the makings of a great pitcher. You're just too dense to understand it I guess. Stats, opinions of baseball greats, and cold hard facts won't sway you, I guess ntohing will. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 Papelbon has been great but lumping Hansen and Lester in with him just bacuse they are young is moronic. Hansen blew another game last night and his ERA is over 5.5 and his whip and k/9 are average at best. He's gotten hit hard all year and has shown no command. Lester is only a prospect based on one good year in AA. He was mediocore in AAA this year and his numbers are VERY mediocore in the majors this year just like he's been his entire minor league carrer untill last year. Even in his good year he had bad control too 3.5BB/9. The guy is WAY overhyped. His ERA is 4.85 and the command problem you mention shows 3 BB's to date. Also the save was blown via a Loretta rare error. You wanna argue a 22 yr old top prospect pitching important innings for a 1st place team knock yourself out. I'll take his upside. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 His ERA is 4.85 and the command problem you mention shows 3 BB's to date. Also the save was blown via a Loretta rare error. You wanna argue a 22 yr old top prospect pitching important innings for a 1st place team knock yourself out. I'll take his upside. You obviously don't know the difference between control and command. Hansen has control but no command. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 What more do you want from a rookie? 4th/4th starter is exactly what he is. He gave up 1 run with his worst stuff of the year. Those are the makings of a great pitcher. You're just too dense to understand it I guess. Stats, opinions of baseball greats, and cold hard facts won't sway you, I guess ntohing will. Stats won't sway me? Are you kidding me? Every stat besides his w-l record says he's pitched like a number 5 starter. 1.61 WHIP is HORRIBLE and pitchers who have WHIP's like that ALWAYS collapse. And don't tell me rookie pitchers can't get people out. Ever heard of Liriano? Verlander? Both have MUCH better stuff then lester and as a result they have much better numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted July 14, 2006 Author Share Posted July 14, 2006 Stats won't sway me? Are you kidding me? Every stat besides his w-l record says he's pitched like a number 5 starter. 1.61 WHIP is HORRIBLE and pitchers who have WHIP's like that ALWAYS collapse. And don't tell me rookie pitchers can't get people out. Ever heard of Liriano? Verlander? Both have MUCH better stuff then lester and as a result they have much better numbers. The day they start admitting teams to the playoffs for WHIP, BAA, OPS, etc is the day you'll get your props. Until then your argument hold no water. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted July 14, 2006 Share Posted July 14, 2006 The day they start admitting teams to the playoffs for WHIP, BAA, OPS, etc is the day you'll get your props. Until then your argument hold no water. LOL you really are a complete moron arn't you. You think beckett has pitched as well as mussina or johan santana yet he has more wins so he MUST be better right? You probably think calon deserved the cy young last year don't you. LMAO Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PFSIKH Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 All those groundballs? What are you talking about. His G/F is 1.12 thats HORRIBLE. Wang's is well over 3. Jackass, go look at the recap of those walks you want to use. He induced groundball outs, forced a couple of double plays and struckout to get out of his jams. Why are we talking about Liriano and Verlander? I am pretty sure no Sox fan has said Lester is better then Liriano. You are right Liriano is better then Lester. Dumbass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 Jackass, go look at the recap of those walks you want to use. He induced groundball outs, forced a couple of double plays and struckout to get out of his jams. Why are we talking about Liriano and Verlander? I am pretty sure no Sox fan has said Lester is better then Liriano. You are right Liriano is better then Lester. Dumbass. LOL....Madmike after a Yankee win, "we may have won tonight but I am not happy with what I saw with our hitters OPS". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 Jackass, go look at the recap of those walks you want to use. He induced groundball outs, forced a couple of double plays and struckout to get out of his jams. Why are we talking about Liriano and Verlander? I am pretty sure no Sox fan has said Lester is better then Liriano. You are right Liriano is better then Lester. Dumbass. You said "he's great becuase he got all those groud ball outs" I showed you that his g/f is BAD Fact > Your Opinion In fact the only way to defend Lester is with opinion based statments. You have no hard evidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted July 15, 2006 Author Share Posted July 15, 2006 LOL you really are a complete moron arn't you. You think beckett has pitched as well as mussina or johan santana yet he has more wins so he MUST be better right? You probably think calon deserved the cy young last year don't you. LMAO No, it's quite evident Beckett hasn't pitched as well as either of them. And I don't know what a calon is. My last post was about Lester, and not Beckett. And he has exceeded all expectations. Even your Yankee buddies have admitted he has pitched well. You're just a homer until you die. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 No, it's quite evident Beckett hasn't pitched as well as either of them. And I don't know what a calon is. My last post was about Lester, and not Beckett. And he has exceeded all expectations. Even your Yankee buddies have admitted he has pitched well. You're just a homer until you die. If the yankees had a pitcher who was 4-0 but had lester's awful stats i'd be saying the exact same thing. He's clearly not as good as his w-l record. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted July 15, 2006 Author Share Posted July 15, 2006 If the yankees had a pitcher who was 4-0 but had lester's awful stats i'd be saying the exact same thing. He's clearly not as good as his w-l record. Neither is Contreras. And yes, Lester is as good as his W-L record or else he wouldn't have it. And no you wouldn't because you're a Yankee fan. Hughes could be 20-0 with the sames stats and you wouldn't say a word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 Neither is Contreras. And yes, Lester is as good as his W-L record or else he wouldn't have it. And no you wouldn't because you're a Yankee fan. Hughes could be 20-0 with the sames stats and you wouldn't say a word. Aaron Small was 10-0 last year. Keep that in mind. Lester has a tuff road ahead of him. He has no dominant secondary pitch, and no real good 3rd pitch either. And he has no good control of any pitch in his arsenal. He's very lucky to be 4-0. I think I heard he's had something like 65 baserunners in 43 innings? Horrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted July 15, 2006 Author Share Posted July 15, 2006 Aaron Small was 10-0 last year. Keep that in mind. Lester has a tuff road ahead of him. He has no dominant secondary pitch, and no real good 3rd pitch either. And he has no good control of any pitch in his arsenal. He's very lucky to be 4-0. I think I heard he's had something like 65 baserunners in 43 innings? Horrible. You keep saying he has no other pitches. Just thought I'd share this. "Very athletic lefty. 2-seam and 4-seam fastballs sit in the low 90's, top out in the mid-90s, and have good movement. Lester also utilizes an above-average change-up, an 11-to-5 curveball which sits in the low 70s, and in 2005 worked on developing a cutter. Easy delivery motion with good explosion, similar to Andy Pettitte. Power strikeout pitcher, uses his fastball and occasionally his curve as his out pitch. While Lester typically has top notch control, occasionally he will have games where his control of certain pitchers is off. Very hard worker, prepares well for each game. Has also been compared to Mark Mulder. Great pickoff move." He has a fastball which runs in on righties and out on lefties. So if you could just do a little research. He's not as one dimensional as you think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 You keep saying he has no other pitches. Just thought I'd share this. "Very athletic lefty. 2-seam and 4-seam fastballs sit in the low 90's, top out in the mid-90s, and have good movement. Lester also utilizes an above-average change-up, an 11-to-5 curveball which sits in the low 70s, and in 2005 worked on developing a cutter. Easy delivery motion with good explosion, similar to Andy Pettitte. Power strikeout pitcher, uses his fastball and occasionally his curve as his out pitch. While Lester typically has top notch control, occasionally he will have games where his control of certain pitchers is off. Very hard worker, prepares well for each game. Has also been compared to Mark Mulder. Great pickoff move." He has a fastball which runs in on righties and out on lefties. So if you could just do a little research. He's not as one dimensional as you think. That scouting report is copyed from soxprospects.com a boston fan site LMAO. Not bias AT ALL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
madmike1 Posted July 15, 2006 Share Posted July 15, 2006 Neither is Contreras. And yes, Lester is as good as his W-L record or else he wouldn't have it. And no you wouldn't because you're a Yankee fan. Hughes could be 20-0 with the sames stats and you wouldn't say a word. Contreras isn't as good as his numbers either but he's closer to them then lester is to his. Contreras still has a great WHIP h/9. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyCarl40 Posted July 19, 2006 Author Share Posted July 19, 2006 8 IP 1 H 4 BB... now 5-0 2.38 ERA. I'm pretty sure this settles the argument. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainzo Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 8 IP 1 H 4 BB... now 5-0 2.38 ERA. I'm pretty sure this settles the argument. You beat me to the punch. Lester threw a 1 hitter for christ sakes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shawn306 Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Lester was real good tonight and the Sox needed it since their bats were asleep all night. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonEJet Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Lets see Lester do it in September, against the best team in the AL. He'll fold like the Sawx always do Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainzo Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Lets see Lester do it in September, against the best team in the AL. He'll fold like the Sawx always do I don't think it is possible for Lester to pitch against his own team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jet/BosoxFan Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Lets see Lester do it in September, against the best team in the AL. He'll fold like the Sawx always do There ya go...Jon Lester is bound to have a great September thanks in large part to JonEJinx Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonEJet Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 Qho the **** are you kiding Go back in you hole...go hide, it's what you do best Sawx squeek a couple out against a AAA team, and there you are tooting your horn Old Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JonEJet Posted July 19, 2006 Share Posted July 19, 2006 I don't think it is possible for Lester to pitch against his own team. Don't kid yourself It hurts more in September.....k Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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