Gainzo Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 Your asking for that ball to be picked off if you put enough arc on that pass to get it over Colvin,Remember Cotchery is in the slot,you put too much arc on that ball and the corner on the outside could react to it.It's a risky play and sadly we got burned on it. Very true. If Chad had actually looked (he was under minimal pressure) he would have thrown the ball into the stands and not directly into Colvins hands. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 Your asking for that ball to be picked off if you put enough arc on that pass to get it over Colvin,Remember Cotchery is in the slot,you put too much arc on that ball and the corner on the outside could react to it.It's a risky play and sadly we got burned on it. NO but Chad should have managed ot have the arc to get it over Colvin and then someone with a remote controll turned up the speed on the ball so it doesnt get picked by the CB... lol Barton and others that blame this on Chad are doing it based on their blind hate for the guy... his siganture is actually more fitting to himself and his blind hatred.... What Barton and others fail to realise is that there is nothing Chad could have done here, it was a called play... he did what he was suppsed to do. He snapped the ball and threw the ball to cotch, with the same exact motion it probobly had been when the practiced it 50 times the week prior... he doesnt have time to read a LB once the ball is snapped, so the fact that Colvin flew past Dbrick is out of Chads hands, his job is to get a bullet over to Cotch so that it wont be picked by the CB running up... this is purely a timing play, so if someone misses their block it blows up in your face... nothing anyone can do about it. As for the fumble, all 11 guys are at fault here... thats just the nature of a pro-player... in HighSchool if you dont fall on that ball you would be running laps for days! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 Very true. If Chad had actually looked (he was under minimal pressure) he would have thrown the ball into the stands and not directly into Colvins hands. Yeah thats what makes guys like Brady and Manning great, sadly we dont have nor can we aquire one of them... so its up to Shotty to call the right play and Dbrick to pick up the LB... Problem is if he took the time to look, 9 out of 10 times he would get sacked... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainzo Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 NO but Chad should have managed ot have the arc to get it over Colvin and then someone with a remote controll turned up the speed on the ball so it doesnt get picked by the CB... lol Barton and others that blame this on Chad are doing it based on their blind hate for the guy... his siganture is actually more fitting to himself and his blind hatred.... What Barton and others fail to realise is that there is nothing Chad could have done here, it was a called play... he did what he was suppsed to do. He snapped the ball and threw the ball to cotch, with the same exact motion it probobly had been when the practiced it 50 times the week prior... he doesnt have time to read a LB once the ball is snapped, so the fact that Colvin flew past Dbrick is out of Chads hands, his job is to get a bullet over to Cotch so that it wont be picked by the CB running up... this is purely a timing play, so if someone misses their block it blows up in your face... nothing anyone can do about it. As for the fumble, all 11 guys are at fault here... thats just the nature of a pro-player... in HighSchool if you dont fall on that ball you would be running laps for days! There was no missed block by DBrick. Colvin lined up way outside and Chad should have seen this while calling out his signals. There was no "trickery" by Colvin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ARodJetsFan Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 Colvin wasn't touched on theplay and Chad is lucky that it wasn't a pick-6. Colvin got both hands on the ball. Terrible decision by Chad to throw that ball. Agreed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 There was no missed block by DBrick. Colvin lined up way outside and Chad should have seen this while calling out his signals. There was no "trickery" by Colvin. Must have thought he was going to drop back... in which case it is a poorly designed play by Shotty not to have a TE or RB who can pick up the OLB on that side... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainzo Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 Must have thought he was going to drop back... in which case it is a poorly designed play by Shotty not to have a TE or RB who can pick up the OLB on that side... Can you just admit it was a bad throw by Chad? He should have seen Colvin and called an audible. It was 1st down for farks sake! After the Pats got the ball back they had to settle for a FG as Brady overthrew a wide open Graham in the endzone. I was pissed at Brady for missing that throw. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted April 3, 2007 Author Share Posted April 3, 2007 That play is not designed to be a read and then throw play, it would NEVER work if that's the case because the defense would be all over it before it started. It's called a quick pass for a reason. You need to put some pads on and go play some football. No crap. Which is why I didnt agree with Arod who said the play (or pass) was not designed to be behind the LOS; it was. But Chad should still have realized Colvin was there and could have changed his arm angle to deliver the ball in a clear window. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsis Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 I'll agree he should have saw colvin, but this whole throwing window on a quick pass thing is silly. The window was slammed shut by colvin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raffyD Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 If Chad had lofted the ball then it would have been fine but he fired it directly at Colvin. It was a bad throw. Although you know I always listen to and respect what you have to say you are just flat out wrong here. In that type of play there's no chance of a high loft pass as the receiver is getting the ball literally a few feet from a number of defenders. If Chad lofts that ball at all then Cotch is in the hospital, hence the name "hospital pass" as used in Rugby. Speaking of Rugby, one would never loft the ball high to his mate when there are defenders closing in on a tackle (and only a few feet away) as all it would do would be to set up an intercept/loss of possession or death to your mate or worse, both. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainzo Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 Although you know I always listen to and respect what you have to say you are just flat out wrong here. In that type of play there's no chance of a high loft pass as the receiver is getting the ball literally a few feet from a number of defenders. If Chad lofts that ball at all then Cotch is in the hospital, hence the name "hospital pass" as used in Rugby. Speaking of Rugby, one would never loft the ball high to his mate when there are defenders closing in on a tackle (and only a few feet away) as all it would do would be to set up an intercept/loss of possession or death to your mate or worse, both. I'm very familiar with the hospital ball unfortunately! I was trying to say that even if Chad had a slight arc on the ball it would have cleared Colvin. "Loft" wasn't a good use of words. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted April 3, 2007 Author Share Posted April 3, 2007 Although you know I always listen to and respect what you have to say you are just flat out wrong here. In that type of play there's no chance of a high loft pass as the receiver is getting the ball literally a few feet from a number of defenders. If Chad lofts that ball at all then Cotch is in the hospital, hence the name "hospital pass" as used in Rugby. Speaking of Rugby, one would never loft the ball high to his mate when there are defenders closing in on a tackle (and only a few feet away) as all it would do would be to set up an intercept/loss of possession or death to your mate or worse, both. I agree. Arcing the ball (or lofting it) on this play was not an option at all. In fact, it probably would have lead to another pick six. However, Chad should have completely avoided the play as soon as Colvin was in his upfield rush and not dropping back into coverage. That is completely Chads responsbility to read the coverage, and it seems he did not. I'm sure Chad really wishes he had that play back, because it was a huge mistake on his part to throw that pass. He should have thrown it away. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raffyD Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 There was no missed block by DBrick. Colvin lined up way outside and Chad should have seen this while calling out his signals. There was no "trickery" by Colvin. This I could agree with, ie, the fact that the play should never have happened based on the look the defense was giving. Chad's fault there, no doubt. But that's about it for that play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raffyD Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 No crap. Which is why I didnt agree with Arod who said the play (or pass) was not designed to be behind the LOS; it was. But Chad should still have realized Colvin was there and could have changed his arm angle to deliver the ball in a clear window. Fine, but now you're complaining about Chad's arm angle for that throw which I'm not knowledgeable enough about to respond. I'll give you that he should have audibled out of that play (still hurts to think about it), but the execution itself was done as it was designed to be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 There was no missed block by DBrick. Colvin lined up way outside and Chad should have seen this while calling out his signals. There was no "trickery" by Colvin. The ball would of went over Colvin regardless of where he lined,the reason this play failed was because Colvin managed to jump and get his hands up not where he lined up.If Colvin continued to rush the passer then this play works but Colvin made a heads up play and burned the Jets big time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted April 3, 2007 Author Share Posted April 3, 2007 This I could agree with, ie, the fact that the play should never have happened based on the loko the defense was giving. Chad's fault there, no doubt. But that's about it for that play. Not to completely harp on this play but I was actually sick to my stomach when I saw the Jets line up for this play after Leons 19 yard run. I had a really really bad feeling that it was not going to be a good play as the Jets had run the exact play earlier in the game, and sure enough - they ran the exact same play they ran earlier in the game. Very good play by Colvin. But Chad should have avoided the whole thing if he did his job. Thats all I'm sayin here. Also, I believe Chad calls the plays at the line so it was likely his decision to run that play - big mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raffyD Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 I'm very familiar with the hospital ball unfortunately! I was trying to say that even if Chad had a slight arc on the ball it would have cleared Colvin. "Loft" wasn't a good use of words. Understood, and yes, unfortunately, I also know all too well about the hospital pass. Btw, I thought every pass in Aussie Rules was hospital like? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 Very true. If Chad had actually looked (he was under minimal pressure) he would have thrown the ball into the stands and not directly into Colvins hands. If Chad actually looked and Colvin wasn't there then Cotchery would of been covered by the time the ball arrives.It's a quick pass that doesn't give consideration to what the defense is doing,hence the risk. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainzo Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 The ball would of went over Colvin regardless of where he lined,the reason this play failed was because Colvin managed to jump and get his hands up not where he lined up.If Colvin continued to rush the passer then this play works but Colvin made a heads up play and burned the Jets big time. I just watched the play again and as soon as the ball was snapped DBrick went backwards and toward the Guard in full "pass blocking mode" even though no one was rushing him. He must have been thinking that Colvin was going to mount a rush. Instead Colvin ran straight up the field and batted down the pass. Rookie mistake by DBrick but the fault still falls on Chad for throwing the ball directly at Colvin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 Didn't you have this debate already? Or are we going to do it for each play of the season? It was a **** play, but 1. Colvin should have been cut and 2. whatever idiot was near the ball (I believe Gainzo when he suggests D'Brick) should have fallen on it. Then it would have just been a bad play and not a catastrophe. It took a lot of guys to make such a **** play. A big problem we had that day was that Dyson was not fully healed up and our top cover corner started the game giving a huge cushion to Gaffney. Once that stiff got on a roll it was hard to see where our momentum was going to come from. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
raffyD Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 Not to completely harp on this play but I was actually sick to my stomach when I saw the Jets line up for this play after Leons 19 yard run. I had a really really bad feeling that it was not going to be a good play as the Jets had run the exact play earlier in the game, and sure enough - they ran the exact same play they ran earlier in the game. Very good play by Colvin. But Chad should have avoided the whole thing if he did his job. Thats all I'm sayin here. Also, I believe Chad calls the plays at the line so it was likely his decision to run that play - big mistake. I think we agree. Good, now let's go get some beer and figure out how to get a Super Bowl win next year. Oh, and don't reply with the following: Barton: "Step 1 - Cut Chad Pennington";) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 Not to completely harp on this play but I was actually sick to my stomach when I saw the Jets line up for this play after Leons 19 yard run. I had a really really bad feeling that it was not going to be a good play as the Jets had run the exact play earlier in the game, and sure enough - they ran the exact same play they ran earlier in the game. Very good play by Colvin. But Chad should have avoided the whole thing if he did his job. Thats all I'm sayin here. Also, I believe Chad calls the plays at the line so it was likely his decision to run that play - big mistake. So it was also likely his decision to call the play the 19 yard run play? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted April 3, 2007 Author Share Posted April 3, 2007 I think we agree. Good, now let's go get some beer and figure out how to get a Super Bowl win next year. Oh, and don't reply with the following: Barton: "Step 1 - Cut Chad Pennington";) Yes, we agree. It was a designed pass behind the LOS. No question about that. Now the 1 play that completely killed us on defense was Jonathan Vilma WHIFFING on a sack on 3rd down that would have knocked the Patriots out of FG position. Vilma whiffed and Brady scampered for a 1st down and I'm not sure if the pats scored a touchdown on this drive but I believe they did (I think it was the one where Kassell effed up at the goaline biting on the playfake) but I could be wrong. I do know the pats did score on this drive and watching Vilma whiff on that 3rd down sack took the wind right out of my sails. He went for the ball in Bradys hand for a strip on 3rd down when the sack would have knocked them out of FG position! Idiot! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 Can you just admit it was a bad throw by Chad? He should have seen Colvin and called an audible. It was 1st down for farks sake! After the Pats got the ball back they had to settle for a FG as Brady overthrew a wide open Graham in the endzone. I was pissed at Brady for missing that throw. SUre it was a bad throw, I admitted above that a "great" QB like Brady or Manning would have thrown it away... Problem is, Shotty obviously had worked on this play and obviously wanted it to be a snap and throw type of play with no reaction to the play going on around them... just a quick toss... who knows why Chad didnt think Colvin would be a problem... we will never know People act like it is easy to find a QB who woudlnt do the same thing... all but 2 or 3 of the NFLs starting QBs would have done the same thing... To blame it all on Chad though is stupid... especially if you break it down making the throw with Colvin un-blocked - Chads fault for not knowing to bring someone over in motion, Shottys fault for calling the play without having strong side help for the OLB not picking up the fumble - every single player and coaches fault Chad screwed up some on that play obviously, but so did the rest of the team... and football is all about helping out your teamates and picking up their slack... nobody picked up Chad/Shotty's slack on that playcalling... so it bombed... but was it only Chads fault, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted April 3, 2007 Author Share Posted April 3, 2007 So it was also likely his decision to call the play the 19 yard run play? Could be. Too bad it was completely wiped away by the following play call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
4HCrew Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 the missed sack by Vilma was huge and could have changed the game Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainzo Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 Yes, we agree. It was a designed pass behind the LOS. No question about that. Now the 1 play that completely killed us on defense was Jonathan Vilma WHIFFING on a sack on 3rd down that would have knocked the Patriots out of FG position. Vilma whiffed and Brady scampered for a 1st down and I'm not sure if the pats scored a touchdown on this drive but I believe they did (I think it was the one where Kassell effed up at the goaline biting on the playfake) but I could be wrong. I do know the pats did score on this drive and watching Vilma whiff on that 3rd down sack took the wind right out of my sails. He went for the ball in Bradys hand for a strip on 3rd down when the sack would have knocked them out of FG position! Idiot! That was the play. Vilma went for the strip, Brady evaded it, and the Pats scored at the end of the half when Kassell bit on the play action fake. If anything you blokes should be pissed at Kassell for being an idiot on that play! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 I just watched the play again and as soon as the ball was snapped DBrick went backwards and toward the Guard in full "pass blocking mode" even though no one was rushing him. He must have been thinking that Colvin was going to mount a rush. Instead Colvin ran straight up the field and batted down the pass. Rookie mistake by DBrick but the fault still falls on Chad for throwing the ball directly at Colvin. Make no mistake about it,Colvin was trying to go around D'Bricks shoulder expecting a 5 step drop,which to be fair is what D'Brick was defending for and was probably meant to do as I'd imagine you'd want the DE in the backfield so he can't persue the WR. Again you fail to be grasping how this play meant to work,it's not a read and react play,it'snot even a read play,it's a do play.Asking Chad to read the coverage is like asking him to read the coverage on a toss play. Also to those people who said this play was to parallel along the line of scrimmage, Cotchery(who wasn't on the line of scrimmage to begin with) took a steep back and then ran towards the sideline,it was probably designed to be a backwards pass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pragmatic Bus Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 Which players do you think held up their end of the bargain or at least were bright spots? I'd say Bryan Thomas and Kerry Rhodes. Cant think of anyone else...... I know the game was a couple months ago, but I actually just went through it on tape the other night before I went to bed and the game could have turned on just a few inches. So anyways, which players were bright spots for you? Pennington? Coles? Leon? are u really throwing penny boy's name out there as a bright spot. you've got to be kidin me Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted April 3, 2007 Author Share Posted April 3, 2007 are u really throwing penny boy's name out there as a bright spot. you've got to be kidin me Try reading a few pages of the thread first......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ten Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 Could be. Too bad it was completely wiped away by the following play call. I'm quite surprised that you hate Chad despite believing he was behind our inventive playcalling this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 If anything you blokes should be pissed at Kassell for being an idiot on that play! Why single out that play? I'm pretty much pissed at Kassell for 2006. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gainzo Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 Make no mistake about it,Colvin was trying to go around D'Bricks shoulder expecting a 5 step drop,which to be fair is what D'Brick was defending for and was probably meant to do as I'd imagine you'd want the DE in the backfield so he can't persue the WR. Again you fail to be grasping how this play meant to work,it's not a read and react play,it'snot even a read play,it's a do play.Asking Chad to read the coverage is like asking him to read the coverage on a toss play. Also to those people who said this play was to parallel along the line of scrimmage, Cotchery(who wasn't on the line of scrimmage to begin with) took a steep back and then ran towards the sideline,it was probably designed to be a backwards pass. I understand how the play is meant to work as the Pats have been running the same play since 2001. Chad didn't make the correct read at the line of scrimmage and decided to run the called play. He should have called an audible or thrown the ball into the stands. Nothing ticks me off more than QB's making boneheaded plays on 1st down. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ECURB Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 I'm quite surprised that you hate Chad despite believing he was behind our inventive playcalling this year. :rl::rl: Clasic Chad hater material... now watch he will claim that Chad only called the bad plays... none fo the good oens that got us to 10 wins... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pragmatic Bus Posted April 3, 2007 Share Posted April 3, 2007 Try reading a few pages of the thread first......... i'm too tired to read 8 pages I'm quite surprised that you hate Chad despite believing he was behind our inventive playcalling this year. and what the hell was brian schotenhiemer doin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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