D'Bustashaw?

[PeterNorth09]

Two years ago our biggest need was offensive line. Today, our biggest need is still offensive line. You can say the front 7 on defense needs to be upgraded but our team's biggest weakness is offensive line. Outside of Nick Mangold I wouldn't rate any other starter above average. They stink.

So what can the Jets do? Draft Jake Long next year? Trade for Alan Faneca? I want to hear some suggestions because right now this team ain't winning at the line of scrimmage.

[KSJets]

Or maybe we can trade for Marcus McNeil...he helped LT gain all of 25 yards on 17 carries today and lead San Diego to 14 points. Of course, their defense showed up to their game.

[PeterNorth09]

Or maybe we can trade for Marcus McNeil...he helped LT gain all of 25 yards on 17 carries today and lead San Diego to 14 points. Of course, their defense showed up to their game.

D'Brick is getting beat by back-ups and cannot run-block. Unless the Jets can get a superstar OG to play next to him he's going to continue to look remarkably mediocre.

[KSJets]

That's funny because I saw your boy get beat on several blocks today as well. No one is perfect.

I was actually more concerned with Clement and Moore today, but there were a couple of sacks that Chad held the ball way too long on.

And that back-up he was beaten by had 7.5 sacks last year. Our "leader" had 8.5. He doesn't suck, he just plays behind an awesome DE in Seymour.

[PeterNorth09]

That's funny because I saw your boy get beat on several blocks today as well. No one is perfect.

I was actually more concerned with Clement and Moore today, but there were a couple of sacks that Chad held the ball way too long on.

And that back-up he was beaten by had 7.5 sacks last year. Our "leader" had 8.5. He doesn't suck, he just plays behind an awesome DE in Seymour.

D'Brick almost got Chad killed today end of story. If Seymour played in this game we might be talking right now about how Marques Tuiasosopo is our hope for the season b/c both Pennington and Clemens would have gotten raped back there by NE's d-line.

Brick is not a big, strong physical player. He was overhyped coming out of college and now we are stuck with this d*ckhead. We need to get a superstar Guard like Faneca to play on the left side with him so our QB's can survive.

[Sperm Edwards]

Or maybe we can trade for Marcus McNeil...he helped LT gain all of 25 yards on 17 carries today and lead San Diego to 14 points. Of course, their defense showed up to their game.

Oof!

True in this one case, but it's an anomaly. San Diego has a top OL & ours sucks other than Mangold. If we were dead-set on switching to a 3-4 & were equally dead-set on taking a lineman at #4 it should have been Ngata. DT's who can play the nose in a 3-4 are way harder to find than left tackles.

[PeterNorth09]

Oof!

True in this one case, but it's an anomaly. San Diego has a top OL & ours sucks other than Mangold. If we were dead-set on switching to a 3-4 & were equally dead-set on taking a lineman at #4 it should have been Ngata. DT's who can play the nose in a 3-4 are way harder to find than left tackles.

I liked Ngata a lot in that draft too. I actually liked Ngata more than Mario and AJ Hawk and still think he is a more valuable player. Big, effective NT's are hard to find.

The main point is this team is horrifically undersized at both O-line and D-line. We will never win at the line of scrimmage with undersized scrubs like who play a finesse game.

[Thai Jet]

Two years ago our biggest need was offensive line. Today, our biggest need is still offensive line. You can say the front 7 on defense needs to be upgraded but our team's biggest weakness is offensive line. Outside of Nick Mangold I wouldn't rate any other starter above average. They stink.

.

Just curious Sunshine, Do you EVER have anything positive to say? Just askin...

[PeterNorth09]

Just curious Sunshine, Do you EVER have anything positive to say? Just askin...

Hey just wait until Brodie Croyle starts. I'll have plenty of positive things to say about that debacle! (Sarcasm is amazing.)

[Thai Jet]

Hey just wait until Brodie Croyle starts. I'll have plenty of positive things to say about that debacle! (Sarcasm is amazing.)

Why would you change your MO Sunshine?

[serphnx]

Just curious Sunshine, Do you EVER have anything positive to say? Just askin...

To be fair, his complaints are valid.

[Sperm Edwards]

I liked Ngata a lot in that draft too. I actually liked Ngata more than Mario and AJ Hawk and still think he is a more valuable player. Big, effective NT's are hard to find.

The main point is this team is horrifically undersized at both O-line and D-line. We will never win at the line of scrimmage with undersized scrubs like who play a finesse game.

I thought he was the most obvious pick when everyone was screaming for DBrick or one of those 3 QB's. There were too many OLmen - ones WITH talent - in that draft to take one at #4.

[Thai Jet]

To be fair, his complaints are valid.

My point was, and still is, that I have YET to actually see ONE positive post from him concerning anyone. I'm not talking just today but the entire off season too. He seems to be negative on life in general. I work with 2 equally negative people here and it just brings everone else down. People who are always negative suck.

[PeterNorth09]

My point was, and still is, that I have YET to actually see ONE positive post from him concerning anyone. I'm not talking just today but the entire off season too. He seems to be negative on life in general. I work with 2 equally negative people here and it just brings everone else down. People who are always negative suck.

People who think Brodie Croyle is the next Tom Brady suck. At least football knowledge wise.

[Scott Dierking]

Two years ago our biggest need was offensive line. Today, our biggest need is still offensive line. You can say the front 7 on defense needs to be upgraded but our team's biggest weakness is offensive line. Outside of Nick Mangold I wouldn't rate any other starter above average. They stink.

So what can the Jets do? Draft Jake Long next year? Trade for Alan Faneca? I want to hear some suggestions because right now this team ain't winning at the line of scrimmage.

Alan Faneca will be a free agent after this year.

[PeterNorth09]

Alan Faneca will be a free agent after this year.

Would be a nice pick-up. Too bad people will say he's too old. Like our young'uns aer getting the job done.

[JetCane]

Oof!

True in this one case, but it's an anomaly. San Diego has a top OL & ours sucks other than Mangold. If we were dead-set on switching to a 3-4 & were equally dead-set on taking a lineman at #4 it should have been Ngata. DT's who can play the nose in a 3-4 are way harder to find than left tackles.

This bears repeating in any discussion of the FO.

[RSJ]

I wanted D'Brick and I'm still glad we got him. However he is still young and I wonder if the best plan of action would have been to stick him at RT for a few years at first.

[gang_green03]

Can we please stop overreacting over a small sample size! Not all young players start off quickly. Just because McNeil came in and played great immediately doesn't mean Brick has to. BTW, all the other teams passed on him until the Chargers stole him in the 2nd so don't act like it was so obvious. They have nothing to do with eachother. Maybe McNeil is just better than him, does that mean D'Brick is a bust?? He showed flashes last year and for a rookie LT had a fairly solid season. He played fine this game with the exeption of a couple plays. Stop calling players busts before they've had adequate time to prove themselves. Levi Jones wasn't very good his first 3 seasons and now he's one of the top LT's in the game. This discussion shouldn't even be thought about until the end of the season, and even then he gets 1 more year to prove his worth.

I'll say it one more time, not all young players progress at the same rate.

Sperm's point about Ngata is valid since NT is the #1 position in the 3-4, while LT is more like top 3 position for the offense. But it seems Brick was a more highly graded prospect at the time by most teams and at a dire need position for us, so its difficult to really kill them for the pick anyway. I can understand that sentiment though to a degree.

[joebabyny]

D'Brick almost got Chad killed today end of story. If Seymour played in this game we might be talking right now about how Marques Tuiasosopo is our hope for the season b/c both Pennington and Clemens would have gotten raped back there by NE's d-line.

Good point, it would have been like 2005 jax all over again. It did happen to us before.

The O and D lines were both horrible and desperately need to be rebuilt, but I think I would worry about the O line first. Reason being, if the d line isn't fixed it just means we get scored on bad, but nobody really gets creamed, with a disfunctional O line we have a liability with the QB getting creamed and the RB from forcing him to run into a wall 20-30 times a game.

Looks like those who were fine with the FO playing toughguy with Kendall might have to eat a little crow, our division 2 seventh round starter wasn't even active for the game. That left side was just terrible and where the Chad injury came from.

[joebabyny]

Can we please stop overreacting over a small sample size! Not all young players start off quickly. Just because McNeil came in and played great immediately doesn't mean Brick has to. BTW, all the other teams passed on him until the Chargers stole him in the 2nd so don't act like it was so obvious. They have nothing to do with eachother. Maybe McNeil is just better than him, does that mean D'Brick is a bust?? He showed flashes last year and for a rookie LT had a fairly solid season. He played fine this game with the exeption of a couple plays. Stop calling players busts before they've had adequate time to prove themselves. Levi Jones wasn't very good his first 3 seasons and now he's one of the top LT's in the game. This discussion shouldn't even be thought about until the end of the season, and even then he gets 1 more year to prove his worth.

I'll say it one more time, not all young players progress at the same rate.

Sperm's point about Ngata is valid since NT is the #1 position in the 3-4, while LT is more like top 3 position for the offense. But it seems Brick was a more highly graded prospect at the time by most teams and at a dire need position for us, so its difficult to really kill them for the pick anyway. I can understand that sentiment though to a degree.

That is fine, but then he shouldn't be a full time starting player then from day one like he is. Also, I am pretty sure Brick was the guy who played turnstile that got Chad injured.

[gang_green03]

That is fine, but then he shouldn't be a full time starting player then from day one like he is. Also, I am pretty sure Brick was the guy who played turnstile that got Chad injured.

There's nothing wrong with him starting from day 1 unless he was just plain bad or we had a much better option. He's not been great by any stretch but he hasn't been bad either. You can't kill him for being average unless he was 3 or 4 years in the league.

[will]

There's nothing wrong with him starting from day 1 unless he was just plain bad or we had a much better option. He's not been great by any stretch but he hasn't been bad either. You can't kill him for being average unless he was 3 or 4 years in the league.

You cant kill HIM for being average but you can certainly criticize the FO for taking him so high because his faults seem to have been evident from the outset: ie, he is not fierce (by NFL standards) and he plays light.

I remember when Walton picked players because they were upstanding citizens. It wasnt smart then and its no smarter now, despite the Pacman Jones of the league. At the end of the day you have to play nasty and with brute force if you're gonna be a successful OL in the NFL. And there is no indication so far that Ferguson can do it.

Me, I wasnt posting on this site but I was posting on thejetsblog and favored Hawk or a trade down for Cutler. But in all honestly I am wrong as often as i am right, if not more often. And when they drafted Ferguson I was cool with it, so this is all hindsight.

Its a bit of a bummer because the AFC is very tough (and young) and if Ferguson was a mistake then it will be a significant setback for the Jets.

[gang_green03]

You cant kill HIM for being average but you can certainly criticize the FO for taking him so high because his faults seem to have been evident from the outset: ie, he is not fierce (by NFL standards) and he plays light.

I remember when Walton picked players because they were upstanding citizens. It wasnt smart then and its no smarter now, despite the Pacman Jones of the league. At the end of the day you have to play nasty and with brute force if you're gonna be a successful OL in the NFL. And there is no indication so far that Ferguson can do it.

Me, I wasnt posting on this site but I was posting on thejetsblog and favored Hawk or a trade down for Cutler. But in all honestly I am wrong as often as i am right, if not more often. And when they drafted Ferguson I was cool with it, so this is all hindsight.

Its a bit of a bummer because the AFC is very tough (and young) and if Ferguson was a mistake then it will be a significant setback for the Jets.

I don't like criticizing value when the conventional wisdom among teams was that he was worth the pick. Its not like the defied common knowledge and took Brick when there was much better value elsewhere. Every team considered him a top 5 pick despite his weaknesses, so if he doesn't pan out then every team was wrong. If they had reached for him than it'd be a different story.

It is reasonable to criticize the pick itself IMO, but I think he deserves more time because most rookies don't come in and play lights out from the start and he hasn't been bad thus far. This is a conversation for next season if he doesn't show significant improvement.

[#90]

As Parcells would say, "If they don't bite as puppies, they will probably never bite"

D'Brick is reminding me of the offense's version of Dorian Boose. PU!

[Barton]

Get a QB who doesnt force the Oline to block 7 pass rushers at a time.

[Mistalava]

D'brick & D'Fat. Da busts! What abject wastes of high draft picks.

[nyjetsjetsjets]

its WAYYYYYYYY too eraly to call him a bust. It was only his first game of his second season...

[joebabyny]

Get a QB who doesnt force the Oline to block 7 pass rushers at a time.

A there is a novel idea, lets grab a qb who will make the o-lines job easier. lolsc

That is absurd to say even for someone with such a heavy bias against CP

[Barton]

A there is a novel idea, lets grab a qb who will make the o-lines job easier. lolsc

That is absurd to say even for someone with such a heavy bias against CP

You cant be serious, joebaby.

football 101 man. Defenses dont respect Chads arm or ability to beat them deep. They stack the box with 8 guys or more, they stuff the run easily and they rountinely send 5 or more on the blitz when its a pass play, dropping the rest into zone. The Oline sometimes has trouble knowing who to protect because the defense disguises who is rushing and they send more pass rushers than we have blockers. It is directly related to our pass limited liability QB behind the center.

A great QB makes it 10x easier on an Oline, see Brady, Manning, Marino etc etc. Even guys like Brees and Palmer make it easier for their Olines to pass protect, (and run block for that matter).

[ThisYearsModel]

Brick is a bust. We passed over numerous skill position players to take him. I don't see how this can be seen any other way.

Kendall is surely laughing his *ss off this morning.

[joebabyny]

You cant be serious, joebaby.

football 101 man. Defenses dont respect Chads arm or ability to beat them deep. They stack the box with 8 guys or more, they stuff the run easily and they rountinely send 5 or more on the blitz when its a pass play, dropping the rest into zone. The Oline sometimes has trouble knowing who to protect because the defense disguises who is rushing and they send more pass rushers than we have blockers. It is directly related to our pass limited liability QB behind the center.

A great QB makes it 10x easier on an Oline, see Brady, Manning, Marino etc etc. Even guys like Brees and Palmer make it easier for their Olines to pass protect, (and run block for that matter).

The reverse is just as true, How can the QB get anything done if the line constantly collapses, or the qb is wondering if a freight train just got let through his blind side on the left? Look at carr in Houston, that guy would get knocked on his ass before he could even get the ball above his shoulder(and things looked like they still need work with their line, schaub got sacked 2 times yesterday).

At the end of the day, the qb needs protection to get anything going, and the oline needs to provide that and also open up a few holes for the run to set up the pass and chads play action.

Look at Brady yesterday, his line gave him all the time in the world and he was able to pick us apart. It was in stark contrast to what our line did not give Chad.

[DHJF]

Look at Brady yesterday, his line gave him all the time in the world and he was able to pick us apart. It was in stark contrast to what our line did not give Chad.

True, but I don't remember seeing the Jets blitz very often yesterday. In fact, I'd have to watch the game again in order to find a single play where they sent any more than 4.

The Pats, on the other hand, blitzed plenty, especially in the first half.

[serphnx]

You cant be serious, joebaby.

football 101 man. Defenses dont respect Chads arm or ability to beat them deep. They stack the box with 8 guys or more, they stuff the run easily and they rountinely send 5 or more on the blitz when its a pass play, dropping the rest into zone. The Oline sometimes has trouble knowing who to protect because the defense disguises who is rushing and they send more pass rushers than we have blockers. It is directly related to our pass limited liability QB behind the center.

A great QB makes it 10x easier on an Oline, see Brady, Manning, Marino etc etc. Even guys like Brees and Palmer make it easier for their Olines to pass protect, (and run block for that matter).

Well you will see if Clemens can improve the line, but I don't think you should hold your breath. Great QBs can make good O-lines look great, but I don't think guys like Bender, Clark, Clement or Moore will ever look great. Guys like Brick and Mangold however could benefit. Look at the O-lines on those teams though, outside of Marino they all already have better players than us at each of those positions to begin with.

This was a very poorly planned team construction.

[Barton]

The reverse is just as true, How can the QB get anything done if the line constantly collapses, or the qb is wondering if a freight train just got let through his blind side on the left? Look at carr in Houston, that guy would get knocked on his ass before he could even get the ball above his shoulder(and things looked like they still need work with their line, schaub got sacked 2 times yesterday).

At the end of the day, the qb needs protection to get anything going, and the oline needs to provide that and also open up a few holes for the run to set up the pass and chads play action.

Look at Brady yesterday, his line gave him all the time in the world and he was able to pick us apart. It was in stark contrast to what our line did not give Chad.

Its the chicken and the egg argumenent, joebaby.