Clemens and Mangini.

[BUM-KNEE]

What does casino have to do with a state under emergency ? You asked where I was last week and I told you many people in the NW HAD NO ELECTRICITY and WERE FLOODED OUT ... People couldn't get from Portland to Seattle cause I-5 was busted. ... Companies were losing millions of bucks per day cause trains were out, roads were out, airports were closed....

So i do take it personally when some moron throws out claims about where people were or weren't when the reality is you don't bother to leave your freaking bedroom or watch the news....

It's not my problem your an idiot who thinks a state that got $1 Billion worth of damages isn't a serious issue... Sorry if I missed last weeks game and sorry if I missed posting on the freaking forum but I had better pressing needs to deal with.

Like I said, maybe you should leave your bedroom once in a while.

Hey JAGOFF, I never said it was a laughing matter. If you cannot comprehend what was typed, then dont come all unglued about it.

[Irish Jet]

You 2 really need to quit this childish arguing. It's not even related to the topic anymore, take it to PM's if you want to continue because your just embarrasing yourselves here.

[BUM-KNEE]

You 2 really need to quit this childish arguing. It's not even related to the topic anymore, take it to PM's if you want to continue because your just embarrasing yourselves here.

I dont see the point either..........

[pjam76]

I dont see the point either..........

The simple point was I answered your question and you had nothing but an arrogant comeback... Sorry if I got out of hand, but the reality is, I didn't watch last weeks game and didn't post about last weeks game cause I had other issues to deal with and worry about.

[Pragmatic Bus]

How's Mike McCarthy doing???

How's Brad Childress doing???

How's Gary Kubiak doing???

How's Dick Jauron???

How's Rod Marinelli doing???

Notice something about all those coaches, they all came in to their teams in 2006 in pretty bad scenarios all at least seemingly have their team headed in the right direction. Sean payton also seems to be going backwards a little but FFs last year he took his team to the NFC title game!!!!

We don't look to be going anywhere with Mangini, that's why I want him gone. There is no point in standing by this guy if he isn't offering any promise.

[JetCane]

Chad never played with this bad of an Oline in his career (outside of this season, and when he started they were not even this bad).

Worst. Post. Ever.

[Boozer76]

Agreed. Using moderator powers to trash a poster you disagree with is really lame.

It's the truth, not a disagreement.

Bullsh*t Bob. BP was just pointing out the FACT that ecrub was only showing up here to post once we lost a game. When things were going fairly well, he just lurked and never bothered to post anything bcause it didn't fit his agenda. I honestly used to like him as a poster here, but this crap is below PatsFanTx standards.

[Barton]

Worst. Post. Ever.

How so? 2002-2004 the Jets had a top 5 Oline in the league. 2005 Chad didnt even play much. and the Oline only got worse AFTER he got injured again, when guys like Mawae went down on IR. 2006 our Oline was solid.

So again, how so?

[JetCane]

How so? 2002-2004 the Jets had a top 5 Oline in the league. 2005 Chad didnt even play much. and the Oline only got worse AFTER he got injured again, when guys like Mawae went down on IR. 2006 our Oline was solid.

So again, how so?

Wasnt 2005 the year that two QBs suffered season-ending injuries because the OL couldnt protect them?

Fabini in his last season as a jet was the worst OL I ever saw play in Green and White.

The OL was just as bad last year- Mangold and Brick were rookies, which offsets having Kendall.

I never heard you use the OL excuse when CP was the QB, so dont start now.

[Barton]

Wasnt 2005 the year that two QBs suffered season-ending injuries because the OL couldnt protect them?

Fabini in his last season as a jet was the worst OL I ever saw play in Green and White.

The OL was just as bad last year- Mangold and Brick were rookies, which offsets having Kendall.

I never heard you use the OL excuse when CP was the QB, so dont start now.

The Oline in 2006 was not NEARLY as bad as it is this year. Not even close. Clement has gotten worse and Clarke has been an embarassement. And I dont even see how you can argue this, its as obvious as can be.

2005 the Oline was bad, but Chad is injury prone and Fielders injury was a fluke thing because of the way he fell. Clemens has taken massive shots time and time again so far and he has gotten up each time. He's just tougher than Chad in that regard.

[JetCane]

I never heard you use the OL excuse when CP was the QB, so dont start now.

[joewilly]

I never heard you use the OL excuse when CP was the QB, so dont start now.

& there in lies da truth

[Barton]

I never heard you use the OL excuse when CP was the QB, so dont start now.

..........because Chad never played with this bad of an Oline.......I said that already.

And I never said Chad was the problem this season. He's been a problem for years, but this season he was lesser a problem than other parts of the team (like the Oline). Like I said, how about 2002-2004, Chad had great Oline play. When Clemens gets great Oline play, let me know.

[JetCane]

..........because Chad never played with this bad of an Oline.......I said that already.

Last year the OL gave up 35 sacks.

In 2005, the OL gave up 30 sacks.

this year so far...22.

Just stop.

[PaJetFan]

This is a bad post. If you can't see the real problem with this team, I just don't think you understand football. We have a patchwork O-line this year. It must be upgraded THIS offseason. There are no excuses for not doing it immediately. Clemens, Mangini and even Pennington are not totally to blame.

The line has just not worked out. It's not for lack of effort. But Adrien Clarke and Anthony Clement are no better than back ups. Period. You can't evaluate a quarterback or head coach without a good O-line.

Just look at the Browns this year. THey sucked until adding Joe Thomas and Eric Steinbach. Now they are protecting their QB and running well. It's pretty easy to see.

[Barton]

Last year the OL gave up 35 sacks.

In 2005, the OL gave up 30 sacks.

this year so far...22.

Just stop.

How many have they given up with Clemens at QB? Prorate that over 16 games and come back to me. Its more than 30 I bet. And sacks is a not the end-all-be-all, because if your QB does nothing but a quick step drop and a 3 yard pass or a checkdown 90% of the time your Oline isnt going to give up alot of sacks (common sense), which is exactly what Chad had been doing (checkdowns and 3 yard passes), which is why he didnt get sacked as often as Clemens has this season.

Clemens has come in, and has tried to stay in the pocket longer looking for a play downfield instead of the checkdown (like Chad) and the Oline cant hold their blocks (because they suck) and he's getting killed. This is common sense stuff.

Oline play is related to the QB. And when you have a QB who doesnt look downfield, only settles for the checkdown and the short passes he'll make the Oline look better because he wont be getting sacked as often as the QB behind the same poorous Oline that does try to make plays downfield and NOT settle for the checkdown 90% of the time.

[JetCane]

I'm not getting back to you after this. You and ecurb are the most biased and annoying posters here, and I have no intention of having a drawn out debate with you about your ridiculous post.

Clemens holds the ball too long and is also responsible for being sacked a lot. That's your boy's fault.

The OL has been bad from 2005-2007, so dont give us any of that "this is the worst OL' ever crap.

It's not my fault if this FO and CS is too stupid to rebuild their lines in two off-seasons.

[Barton]

Not to mention, I was not judging Pennington on this season behind this Oline. I was judging him on his entire career, and the majority of his career he played behind some fantastic Olines and offensive weapons. Yet, still couldnt get the job done. You cant compare what Clemens has and what Chad had, its not the same team or offensive unit in any way, shape or form.

[joewilly]

I'm not getting back to you after this. You and ecurb are the most biased and annoying posters here, and I have no intention of having a drawn out debate with you about your ridiculous post.

Clemens holds the ball too long and is also responsible for being sacked a lot. That's your boy's fault.

The OL has been bad from 2005-2007, so dont give us any of that "this is the worst OL' ever crap.

It's not my fault if this FO and CS is too stupid to rebuild their lines in two off-seasons.

fault them for last offseason for gettin revis & harris instead of d line studs if ya want jetcane but they went after mangold & d'brick 2 offseasons ago. You are gettin way to focused on finding fault with a cs that doesn't deserve the terrible status you brand them with

[Barton]

I'm not getting back to you after this. You and ecurb are the most biased and annoying posters here, and I have no intention of having a drawn out debate with you about your ridiculous post.

Clemens holds the ball too long and is also responsible for being sacked a lot. That's your boy's fault.

The OL has been bad from 2005-2007, so dont give us any of that "this is the worst OL' ever crap.

It's not my fault if this FO and CS is too stupid to rebuild their lines in two off-seasons.

First of all, your 22 sack total this year is completely wrong.

Clemens has started 6 games this year. He has been sacked 23 times in 6 games! Not sure where you got 22 from, but Clemens alone in just 6 games has been sacked 23 times! Prorate that over a 16 game schedule (a complete season) and it comes out to 61 sacks! 61 sacks!

Dont tell me this Oline hasnt been completely terrible this year, and worse than any other year. It is a fact. And Clemens is just trying to make plays downfield instead of being a wuss and settling for the checkdown each time. If anyone is biased and annoying, it is probably you.

http://www.nfl.com/players/kellenclemens/gamelogs?id=CLE075538

[Irish Jet]

How many have they given up with Clemens at QB? Prorate that over 16 games and come back to me. Its more than 30 I bet. And sacks is a not the end-all-be-all, because if your QB does nothing but a quick step drop and a 3 yard pass or a checkdown 90% of the time your Oline isnt going to give up alot of sacks (common sense), which is exactly what Chad had been doing (checkdowns and 3 yard passes), which is why he didnt get sacked as often as Clemens has this season.

Clemens has come in, and has tried to stay in the pocket longer looking for a play downfield instead of the checkdown (like Chad) and the Oline cant hold their blocks (because they suck) and he's getting killed. This is common sense stuff.

Oline play is related to the QB. And when you have a QB who doesnt look downfield, only settles for the checkdown and the short passes he'll make the Oline look better because he wont be getting sacked as often as the QB behind the same poorous Oline that does try to make plays downfield and NOT settle for the checkdown 90% of the time.

So basically your saying Chad is the smarter QB for looking for the checkdown instead of getting sacked???

Clemens has to throw the ball away more, he does hold onto the ball too long. His ability to scramble should help him out but he just needs to use it more effectively. You went on and on about how chad wasn't going downfield this season and how Clemens would fix it. Well, you just admitted that even if Chad wanted to go downfield he couldn't because the OL wouldn't hold up.

Chad looked downfield a lot more than you make out and he could execute as well. See the play vs Cincinatti.

[Irish Jet]

First of all, your 22 sack total this year is completely wrong.

Clemens has started 6 games this year. He has been sacked 23 times in 6 games! Not sure where you got 22 from, but Clemens alone in just 6 games has been sacked 23 times! Prorate that over a 16 game schedule (a complete season) and it comes out to 61 sacks! 61 sacks!

Dont tell me this Oline hasnt been completely terrible this year, and worse than any other year. It is a fact. And Clemens is just trying to make plays downfield instead of being a wuss and settling for the checkdown each time. If anyone is biased and annoying, it is probably you.

http://www.nfl.com/players/kellenclemens/gamelogs?id=CLE075538

Chad was 'settling' for the checkdown????

If the play can't develop downfield then surely there are no other options, your criticisng Chad picking up short yardage instead of getting sacked??? WTF??

Clemens needs to start checking down or throwing the ball away more whether you like it or not. A lot of the sacks on him he's actually gotten good protection.

[Barton]

So basically your saying Chad is the smarter QB for looking for the checkdown instead of getting sacked???

Clemens has to throw the ball away more, he does hold onto the ball too long. His ability to scramble should help him out but he just needs to use it more effectively. You went on and on about how chad wasn't going downfield this season and how Clemens would fix it. Well, you just admitted that even if Chad wanted to go downfield he couldn't because the OL wouldn't hold up.

Chad looked downfield a lot more than you make out and he could execute as well. See the play vs Cincinatti.

Read my last post, Clemens has been sacked 23 times in 6 games. That prorates to 61 sacks over a 16 game season. 61 sacks!

And Chad wasnt going downfield this seasonfor 2 seasons:

1. He never does

2. The Oline was terrible this year.

I already said that. The thing is, I have been calling for him to hit the bench for year(s). So if I just started to be anti-Chad this season, you'd have a point because that would be slightly unfair considering the Oline he's playing with. But that is not the case. I have seen Chad play behind great and good Olines in his career, and thats what i base my judgement of him on, not on this season with this mess of a team, its over his entire career that I judge him on.

[CobraVerde]

Are not the future of this team. We need Cower......Thanks for nothing Woody.

Wow im amazed you can make this assumption after one bad season. You were probably the many a year before sucking on Mangini's left nut. Be a man and take this season like one. If not go be a Baltimore Raven's fan and cry everywhere.

[Barton]

Chad was 'settling' for the checkdown????

If the play can't develop downfield then surely there are no other options, your criticisng Chad picking up short yardage instead of getting sacked??? WTF??

Clemens needs to start checking down or throwing the ball away more whether you like it or not. A lot of the sacks on him he's actually gotten good protection.

You and I both know that Chad settled for the checkdown far too often when he had plenty of time in the pocket (in those occasions). And we both know he would often not even look downfield, instead settling directly for the checkdown.

Clemens in the 4th Q of the Ravens game completed more passes over 20 yards than Chad did the entire season this year. That really tells you all you need to know.

Chad and Kellen have completely different games. The problem is Kellens game is a horrible fit for this team because this Oline cant protect him for any signifciant time, while Chads game was a good fit for this team and this poor Oline because he didnt need significant time in the pocket (because he doesnt throw the ball downfield, only checkdowns). Understand???

[Irish Jet]

You and I both know that Chad settled for the checkdown far too often when he had plenty of time in the pocket (in those occasions). And we both know he would often not even look downfield, instead settling directly for the checkdown.

Clemens in the 4th Q of the Ravens game completed more passes over 20 yards than Chad did the entire season this year. That really tells you all you need to know.

I agree that Chad did checkdown too often, but he Clemens needs to learn that they are required sometimes. He can't continue to get sacked 4 times a game, it's only a matter of time before he gets hurt if that keeps up.

[RSJ]

I agree that Chad did checkdown too often, but he Clemens needs to learn that they are required sometimes. He can't continue to get sacked 4 times a game, it's only a matter of time before he gets hurt if that keeps up.

I agree that this is the knock on him at this point. I also think that if we can get him a weapon it will cut down on sacks. Right now our WR's are getting handled easily by the other teams DB's.