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Jets & Giants should trade Baker for Shockey

ylekram

By ylekram
in NY Jets Forum

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Irish Jet

Irish Jet

Posted
Posted
IJ thinks whatever he says is law.OPINIONS are opinions I have mine he has his.He relents to name calling when hes defeated.Then pulls out a race card??????Come on man.

Shockey would benefit this team at the TE position.

My opinions are not law. I have no problem having debates with people who actually know what you're talking about.

I wonder what motivated me to pull the race card?

Originally Posted by JETSFAN5180 viewpost.gif

If thats true then what does that make you considering you are an alcoholic who probably doesnt even shower on a daily basis.

I will forgive you for the rude comments towards me based on your unfortunate circumstances.

Happy Fathers Day do you even know who your daddy is????????

:confused0058:

I'm not saying Shockey wouldn't be an upgrade at the TE position, he just wouldn't be nearly as big an upgrade as you make out. You talk of him like he's Antonio Gates or Tony Gonzalez when he's really just a slightly above average TE.

Is he better than Chris Baker? Yes, but that really isn't saying much at all. The fact of the matter is the Giants actually improved as a team when this 'great' TE went down. It turns out his 'ATTITUDE AND BALLS' were not so valuable after all and that a serviceable quiet TE like Kevin Boss helped the team to win games, even if he didn't put up Shockey numbers.

Shockey is just not a player who I rate too highly. I have no problem with the fact that you like him as a player, it's just that I think your reasoning behind it is completely wrong.

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Lil Bit Special

Lil Bit Special

Posted
Posted
IJ thinks whatever he says is law.

And so do you.

And so do I.

OPINIONS are opinions I have mine he has his.He relents to name calling when hes defeated.Then pulls out a race card??????Come on man.

It was more an ethnicity card, and not really sure what the whole daddy comment was... if he was black I can see that being a racist comment since black fathers are non-existant.

either way it was still inappropriate what you wrote.

Douchebag is one thing... what you wrote was completely different.

Shockey would benefit this team at the TE position.

again, your opinion. If it was only about talent and performance on the field, I would agree. But with Shockey its much much more than stats. Thats why he's a terrible fit on the Jets.

We've beaten Garb's horse to death already. Time to move on... the jets dont even have enough balls to even consider this trade. its not worth us getting our panties in a bunch over.

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Irish Jet

Irish Jet

Posted
Posted

It was more an ethnicity card, and not really sure what the whole daddy comment was... if he was black I can see that being a racist comment since black fathers are non-existant.

either way it was still inappropriate what you wrote.

The alcoholic comment is a regular stereotype of Irish people. Not saying I've done much to remove that reputation with some of my drunken posts here but that does not mean I'm an alcoholic, not even close.

I don't have a notion what the daddy comment was about either, or the shower thing.

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JETSFAN5180

JETSFAN5180

Posted
Posted

IJ the comment wasnt meant to be anything racial.You decided that.

Toby Keith sings a song "Whos your daddy" not racially motivated at all.

It is time to move on. We both differ in our opinions on players who would benefit this team and reach the ultimate goal.

Go Jets!

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Gainzo

Gainzo

Posted
Posted
It meant you sometimes post like you are drunk in things you say.

You post like every one of your opinions is fact. Using the word "owned" on a message board is weak.

IJ stated his opinion. You called him a drunk and said you owned him.

What's up with that?

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PeterNorth09

PeterNorth09

Posted
Posted

Talent-wise Shockey is a better Tight End than Baker. He'd make the Jets a better team on paper and probably on the field as well.

That being said there is no way him and Mangini would ever get along. Mangini values secrecy above all else and Shockey has a big mouth.

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JETSFAN5180

JETSFAN5180

Posted
Posted
No wonder it likes clowns like Shockey.

Talent-wise Shockey is a better Tight End than Baker. He'd make the Jets a better team on paper and probably on the field as well.

That being said there is no way him and Mangini would ever get along. Mangini values secrecy above all else and Shockey has a big mouth.

Pete be careful dont support Shockey here you will be attacked.

I do agree with your post and so what if he has a big mouth as long as he produces on the field.

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PeterNorth09

PeterNorth09

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Posted
Pete be careful dont support Shockey here you will be attacked.

I do agree with your post and so what if he has a big mouth as long as he produces on the field.

I'm not a Shockey fan but he is one of the best tight ends in the game. Anyone who denies that doesn't really know much about football. He makes a lot of plays and is actually an outstanding blocker. Granted, Eli is probably a better QB without him but that's more of a chemistry thing than anything else.

I'm sure Mangini wants no part of Shockey. Mangini values players who fit in his "system" over players who are the most talented. That's why he drafted an absolute bum like Schlegel over about 100 players who were infinitely more talented in '06. That's why he traded a 2nd round pick and gave a big contract to Thomas Jones when he could have signed a Jamal Lewis or Travis Henry for a fraction of the price.

Only way the Jets ever get Shockey is if Mangini is gone. If the Jets don't win this year that's actually a distinct possibility.

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#27TheDominator

#27TheDominator

Posted
Posted
I wish I had the strength to compile a biggest douchebag top 10, but Im worn out from researching latin vs american ballplayers and the interleague records...

Next year's Jet Nation awards? Eh, don't bother. I wouldn't win anyway. I don't need another honorable mention!

Pete be careful dont support Shockey here you will be attacked.

I do agree with your post and so what if he has a big mouth as long as he produces on the field.

I don't think a single person here has denied that Shockey would be an upgrade in talent over Baker, so that's bull****. We have told you infinite times the "so what". He creates a problem in the lockerroom and hurts team chemistry. Can you accept that, or are you Al Davis? If he feels he isn't seeing the ball enough he starts yapping to the press. Why don't you give Keller a chance? No reason he can't be a better target than Shockey and IMO having a "two way" TE is overrated.

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Sperm Edwards

Sperm Edwards

Posted
Posted

Some players' baggage creates so much disharmony that the team suffers. But if they don't air their dirty laundry publicly then they have no "balls" or "attitude" apparently.

So it seems that people don't merely want someone with this "balls/attitude" thing; they want someone who complains about it.

For years Shockey wouldn't work out with his own team, choosing to work out at The U instead of developing chemistry with his young, rocket-armed QB.

I don't see anyone doubting Shockey's physical talent (when he's actually healthy), but he's a team player like Tiki Barber was a team player. And Shockey's not nearly the TE that Barber was as a RB. Giants lose both of them & they go to a superbowl by winning 3 road games in the playoffs. Then they beat the most dominant team in NFL history in the superbowl.

There are plenty of people who have talent & put up stats that no team (with superbowl aspirations) would - or should - want. Call it Jeff George Syndrome if you want, but that's the problem with them.

Some have a real attitude problem off the field but in the game they are all business & zip it during the game & listen to the coach & let the QB lead in the huddle. Keyshawn was a good example of someone we had like that. So is Coles. Then there are guys like Shockey who sound off in the huddle if the ball isn't thrown his way on a given play. A child acts like that.

And I disagree that not making a move for Shockey means the only alternative is an Anthony Schlegel type of talent that dooms us to having a bad offense. Let alone the receiving weapon that he is, where he gets 20 yards per game more than an average TE. That 20 yards doesn't exist in a vacuum. It means he's getting those yards instead of someone else. The Giants' #2 WR was such an extreme dropoff from their #1 that the ball went to the TE so often. Anyone who thinks that adding Shockey means everyone else's stats remain constant (or get better) and then just simply add his #'s to that of someone like Baker doesn't know sh*t. If the ball goes to Shockey it means it's not going to someone else. It's not that a pass goes to "Shockey or no one" - only Shockey thinks this.

Toomer was averaging 40-50 ypg with Shockey in there. In the playoffs he averaged 70 ypg. Steve Smith had 60 yards all season. In the playoffs he was getting 40 yards per game. The Giants didn't suddenly lose all of Shockey's yards.

The same would apply with the Jets. Shockey would likely get more yards than Baker did last year. Probably in the neighborhood of 200 more. Does that mean the Jets offense would have 200 more yards on the season? Or is it just more likely that 200 yards get taken from other players' stats?

When the Lions drafted Calvin Johnson, with the expectation that he'd be a 1300-1500 yard receiver, did they do so with the assumption that Roy Williams would have the same # of yards, and Mike Furrey would have the same # of yards, and Calvin Johnson would just add another 1400 to that total? It's Matt Millen, so you could argue they were thinking that. But more likely that they wanted a good portion of Furrey's 98 catches to get in the hands of someone who could do more with them.

Lastly, how many yards would Shockey have had here if he was asked to stay in and block on passing downs because of a piss-poor OL that the Giants didn't have to deal with? Baker may be all kinds of a whiny bitch right now, but the truth is he DID stay in to block quite a bit on passing plays. And still ended up with only 200 fewer yards than Shockey did (about 12 yards per game). And for that 12 yards per game to have to contend with his infantile me-me-me attitude?

Screw that. There's a reason not one team offered up the 2nd-rounder the Giants were seeking for him.

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Jade Green

Jade Green

Posted
Posted
Pete be careful dont support Shockey here you will be attacked.

I do agree with your post and so what if he has a big mouth as long as he produces on the field.

Nobody attacked you for stating your opinion to support Shockey.

In fact you attacked people for disagreeing with your opinion.

If you were attacked at all, and believe me I did not attack you, it was because you showed very little class and piss poor character by calling IJ a drunk and asking him if he knew his Daddy.

Now go stick your head back in the sand, so you can continue to be oblivious to what is really going on here and to what you actually did...

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JETSFAN5180

JETSFAN5180

Posted
Posted
Nobody attacked you for stating your opinion to support Shockey.

In fact you attacked people for disagreeing with your opinion.

If you were attacked at all, and believe me I did not attack you, it was because you showed very little class and piss poor character by calling IJ a drunk and asking him if he knew his Daddy.

Now go stick your head back in the sand, so you can continue to be oblivious to what is really going on here and to what you actually did...

Ahhhh that was way after he called me an IDIOT numerous times and then the latest a DOUCHEBAG.

For stating my OPINION about Shockey.

Now go stick your head back where ever it is you stick it.

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Jade Green

Jade Green

Posted
Posted
Ahhhh that was way after he called me an IDIOT numerous times and then the latest a DOUCHEBAG.

For stating my OPINION about Shockey.

Now go stick your head back where ever it is you stick it.

That is why you quoted me right?

Let me guess you were trying to "own" me. :clown:

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Jade Green

Jade Green

Posted
Posted
No thanks.............get your facts straight before you ridicule and choose sides.

Have a nice day! :)

Typical, you are the one with your facts all messed up.

Now you refuse to acknowlege that, SHOCKER!!!

You quoted me saying I "attacked" you, then you say IJ called you names first.

Like a little child, and everybody knows it.

Go get laid, and then maybe "owning" people on a internet froum will not seem like such an accomplishment.

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JETSFAN5180

JETSFAN5180

Posted
Posted
Typical, you are the one with your facts all messed up.

Now you refuse to acknowlege that, SHOCKER!!!

You quoted me saying I "attacked" you, then you say IJ called you names first.

Like a little child, and everybody knows it.

Go get laid, and then maybe "owning" people on a internet froum will not seem like such an accomplishment.

My facts are correct if can read, go review the posts leading up to the name calling incident. IJ has been ridiculimg my posts for quite some time as far as im concerned you and him can drop dead!

Sticks and stones may break my bones but internet insults wont hurt me. :)

When was the last time YOU got laid????????

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Jade Green

Jade Green

Posted
Posted
My facts are correct if can read, go review the posts leading up to the name calling incident. IJ has been ridiculimg my posts for quite some time as far as im concerned you and him can drop dead!

Sticks and stones may break my bones but internet insults wont hurt me. :)

When was the last time YOU got laid????????

Again what does that have to do with you quoting me saying I "attacked" you because you liked Shockey.

As for me getting laid, I know you would love to here all about it, but the more appropriate question would be when was the last time I did not get laid.

I'll just leave it at this, it's obvious I have way less time on my hands to post here than your sorry ass.

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drago

drago

Posted
Posted

I'll just leave it at this, it's obvious I way less time on my hands to post here than your sorry ass.

battle of the titans! i'm guessing you were not laid about 5 minutes ago and about 15 minutes ago. Ok! My turn!!! guess!!! guess!!!

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JETSFAN5180

JETSFAN5180

Posted
Posted
ah, the perfect ending to a highly intelectual debate. You are a god among men. Tell us about your thoughts on the economy professor.

The economy SUCKS. Fuel prices are at an all time high,home sales are sluggish.Many say a recession is looming.I tend to agree.

Hope this helps.Have a nice day :)

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drago

drago

Posted
Posted
The day I start caring about anything you have to say, is the day I am really in trouble.

Keep me posted on your sexual adventures and let me know if curtis ever has a good game in the playoffs.

The economy SUCKS. Fuel prices are at an all time high,home sales are sluggish.Many say a recession is looming.I tend to agree.

Hope this helps.Have a nice day :)

i agree. although i think we are already in a recession. :cool:

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