The Big Blue Screw

[Maxman]

The Big Blue Screw

Posted at 7:59 pm in Featured Editorials, Jet Moses by Max

By Jet Moses

Recently the NY Giants announced fees for “Personal Seat Licenses”. The Giants will charge one-time fees of $1,000 to $20,000 for the right to buy season tickets at the new stadium they are sharing with the NY Jets. The Jets have yet to announce any PSL fees, but you know it’s coming. The stadium, said to cost approximately $1.3 billion dollars, is scheduled for completion for the 2010 season. The co-owner of the Giants, John Mara, said that PSL’s are “necessary for paying down the debt and adhering to lender requirements.”

$1.3 billion dollars is a lot of money to borrow, especially in today’s highly volatile securities market. I wanted to learn more about the financing of this stadium, so I went to Bloomberg.com and did a word search. According to the Jets official website, the stadium is being “privately financed” by Jets Stadium LLC and Giants Stadium LLC, but that left a lot to be desired by way of information.

I searched “Jets Stadium LLC” and all the links were to Giants Stadium LLC (do you still think we wont continue to be second class citizens under this “new” arrangement?).

The story has it that both teams were allowed by the NFL to borrow about $750 million dollars. Former Jets President Jay ‘Flanders’ Cross, remarked that the financing will be bonds, “some combination of floating and fixed.”

Jay didn’t mention that there was also “some combination” of bonds that were tax-exempt, and backed by state appropriations. Indeed, no spokesperson from either team went into detail about the financing of the stadium.

Goldman Sachs Group Inc. is the underwriter for the transactions on behalf of Giants Stadium LLC.

Citigroup– their stock has dropped by more than 50% in the last year—represents the financing of Jets Stadium LLC. Combined, they issued seven series of bonds for $650 million dollars, at an interest rate of 11.5%.

Since the underwriters could not sell the bonds in their entirety, the Giants had to purchase the remaining $53 million dollars worth at a penalty rate of 22%.

The Giants are starting to feel a squeeze. As a result, they just redeemed $100 million in bonds, which means the money they borrowed only one year ago, they have already given back to the lenders. Which begs the question– where are they going to come up with the money they need to build this stadium? The Giants are counting on at least $20 million a year for naming rights. That’s the amount the Mets got from Citigroup; Their stadium, being built in Queens, will be named Citi-field.

Now keep in mind, the financial managers for Jets Stadium LLC is Citigroup. Citigroup stock a year ago was trading at 52.97 a share; today it is trading at 16.91. That’s not exactly a vote of confidence for anyone who has a vested interest in this billion-dollar venture. And if you are a fan confronted with purchasing a PSL, you have a vested interest.

Remember the ‘Big Dig’? That was the unofficial name of the Central Artery/Tunnel Project, in Boston, Massachussetts. The approximate costs of the tunnel was $2.3 billion dollars, but by the time the project was complete, it cost $14.6 billion dollars, all at the expense of state and federal taxpayers.

According to NJ Governor John Corzine, ex-Chairman and CEO of Goldman Sachs, this stadium is going to cost NJ taxpayers “over $300 million dollars”. How much over? If I had to venture a guess right now, I would say way over. NJ is building a new rail line, and financing road improvements that will triple the current amount of access roads to and from the stadium.

Corzine says that this will “create 12,000 new jobs” But how many will be low-paying dead end or part time jobs? How many will be state jobs? NJ is already going bankrupt from obscene retirement pensions and entitlements for state employees, and now the taxpayer is going to be gouged even more.

At this point, I wish I could put lipstick on this pig, but this situation is only going to get worse. NFL owners have opted out of the labor agreement with players. That’s definitely something fans have to think long and hard about while they are currently hearing all the happy talk about what “great investment” a PSL is. The Bond market, once considered “safe”, is the latest in a line of markets made toxic by the manipulation of banks. If they can woo sophisticated financial managers like Giants Stadium LLC and Jets Stadium LLC away from traditional fixed rate bonds, and to sign on with debt products like taxable auction-rate bonds, the average Joe Six-pack who’s entire retirement income depends on a 401K managed by these very same banks, doesn’t have a prayer.

The negative implications of this venture run far deeper than just the level of Jets and Giants fans—it includes all citizens of NJ who could care less about the NFL. But that doesn’t matter to Goldman Sachs, or Citigroup, and it certainly doesn’t matter to Giants Stadium LLC or Jets Stadium LLC. Everybody who pays taxes in NJ will get screwed, and any fan who buys the PSL will get screwed.

Unless of course you believe that Woody Johnson and John Mara are going to be left holding the bag?

Don’t make me laugh.

[Green DNA]

Nice job jetmo. Don't you realize however, that it is a privilege to be allowed to purchase an investment that will peak in value early in the ownership period and then diminish since the PSL applies only to finite period? Nobody in their right mind would pay a premium for an "asset" that is scheduled to disappear in another 6, 7 or 8 years. But hey, such is life when you are a consumer of a "luxury" product.

[Sperm Edwards]

Good job.

[Jet Moses]

Nice job jetmo. Don't you realize however, that it is a privilege to be allowed to purchase an investment that will peak in value early in the ownership period and then diminish since the PSL applies only to finite period? Nobody in their right mind would pay a premium for an "asset" that is scheduled to disappear in another 6, 7 or 8 years. But hey, such is life when you are a consumer of a "luxury" product.

It stinks to high heaven---

Corzine, disreputable governor of NJ, is a former CEO of Goldamn Sachs, who are the underwriters for Giants Stadium LLC; Citigroup. underwriting the Jets, are obligate to pay $20 million annually to the Mets for the naming rights to Citi-field-- their stock is worth sh*t.

At this point, there is no doubt in my mind this was the master plan from the get go.

Woody and Mara decide to stay together, and build and new stadium.

Like they they couldn't just renew the current deal and use the same stadium. What a joke. And I wouldn't even put it past any of these scumbags to let that escalator collapse.

I be the damn thing was rigged.

[Bugg]

There's a point were the squeeze on the middle class regular guy is just too much. I couldn't hustify putting$5k down over fudning my kid's 529 for a year. Informally I doubt anyone I go to Jets games is going to put $5K upfront cash down. It's a crazy thing to do, and the idea that the Jets or Giants would allow the PSL to be held by the ticketholder as a capital asset creates all kinds of problems they might not even see-capital gains taxes, or losses? Are we going to get annualized statements of value that the Jets and Giants might themselves ahve to report as some kind of income or revenue?

None of these sports franchises understood that the economy was on shaky ground. But there's never been a perpetual upward graph in human history, or the Aztecs, Phonecians and Cartheginians would still be running things.

The Yankees "suddenly" realized that their new stadium is going to need another $300 million to get finished.The Mets are likely in the same boat, since once Citiigroup gets snapped up by some company or other, their naming rights deal will go in the crapper.

The Devils acknowledge that they were lucky to finish The Rock at the absolute apogee of the economic cycle, otherwise they'd still be in the Meadowlands. Bruce Ratner, owner of the Nets, has fianlly won all the eminent domain battles only to find that there may not be any demand for the "luxury condos" he wants to fill with Wall Street yuppies as part of the Nets' Brooklyn arena deal. Kinda hard to sell people on the edge of Bed Stuy when Wall Street is a. cutting costs and b. moving everything out of NYC to someplace cheaper at the same time. I would be very surprised if the Nets ever put a spade in Brooklyn earth, and if they aren't bought up by some Jersey concern on the cheap to play at the Rock as well. Without his huge taxpayer-financed condo deal, the Nets are superflous; they were just a salve to the locals to ram this down everyone's throat long enough to get tax abatements and public financing.

The Islanders are as always "exploring a new arena".Don't hold your breath.

MSG has been stopped form building a new arena.

If we could, we should get Jets and Giants season tickholders together,as well

as waiting lists. We should consolidate on this and make a stand. You will bleed us white with new ticket fees. We know you want to stop tailgating because it burns your collective arses that you get nothing more than a parking fee. We know you would rather we pay through the nose for a giant overpriced, crappy service "sports bar" sheethole.

Enough's enough. We'll play ball, but we won't let you beat us with the bat and empty our wallets in the process. We will accept an increase in ticket prices, and a small, nominal one time fee, no more that $1k. Other than that, we should tell them we, their loval fans, the morons who line their pockets with ticket and merchandise money, will let them play their:box: games in and empty stadium. I expect we will never stick together enough to make it work, but a stand has to be made. Better to try and fail than to not try.

[Maxman]

$1,000 would be a dream come true at this point in time.

[Garb]

Interesting read, Jetmo. Well done.

[Blackout]

i love the jets AND the giants

i don't pay a dime and i get to watch them every week

[bitonti]

"Everybody who pays taxes in NJ will get screwed, and any fan who buys the PSL will get screwed."

Everyone who buys a popcicle in the new stadium will get screwed.

Everyone who looks at the stadium from the highway will get screwed.

Every blimp that glides above the stadium will be getting screwed.

Every seagull that eats garbage in the parking lot will be getting screwed.

[war ensemble]

Why does it say at the top of the article:

Jet Moses by Max

By Jet Moses

Max trying to steal someone's glory?

[Green DNA]

"Everybody who pays taxes in NJ will get screwed, and any fan who buys the PSL will get screwed."

Everyone who buys a popcicle in the new stadium will get screwed.

Everyone who looks at the stadium from the highway will get screwed.

Every blimp that glides above the stadium will be getting screwed.

Every seagull that eats garbage in the parking lot will be getting screwed.

Finally, you get it!

[Boozer76]

This stadium will most certainly price out the middle income fans. But to be honest, Football is really the only sport that hasn't thus far. The NBA did so long ago, the NHL (while having no right to do so as well) has as well. Want decent seats at a baseball game? You're going to pay through the nose. Football was the last sport where recently you could bring your wife and 2 kids and pay just over $200 for the affair. Baseball would easily be $400 -$500 and the NBA and NHL would nearly require you to refinance your mortgage. This time was going to come sooner or later.

[Green DNA]

This stadium will most certainly price out the middle income fans. But to be honest, Football is really the only sport that hasn't thus far. The NBA did so long ago, the NHL (while having no right to do so as well) has as well. Want decent seats at a baseball game? You're going to pay through the nose. Football was the last sport where recently you could bring your wife and 2 kids and pay just over $200 for the affair. Baseball would easily be $400 -$500 and the NBA and NHL would nearly require you to refinance your mortgage. This time was going to come sooner or later.

I would actually prefer that they just raise the ticket prices, at least that is more intellectually honest. Even with the PSL, the ticket prices will rise, Woody has done it almost every year since buying the team so why stop now? Trying to peddle a PSL as ownership is bogus. If it's ownership, then I want a profit sharing check every year.

[Maxman]

I would actually prefer that they just raise the ticket prices, at least that is more intellectually honest. Even with the PSL, the ticket prices will rise, Woody has done it almost every year since buying the team so why stop now? Trying to peddle a PSL as ownership is bogus. If it's ownership, then I want a profit sharing check every year.

That is a TERRIBLE idea. We pay for the PSL so we don't have to see the bottom line. If they go 4 and 12 after this spending spree there will be no dividend. And all PSL Owners would be asked to kick in a little extra cash.

[Jet Moses]

The best part is when there is a lockout/strike in 2011. Then you'll really be glad you made this investment!

[bitonti]

The best part is when there is a lockout/strike in 2011. Then you'll really be glad you made this investment!

Moses im kinda dissapointed in you. You have this great financial background, well educated, free market tendancies and relatively libertarian/conservative (from what I've seen on the other site a long time ago)... and here we are you sound like Karl friggin marx.

Why shouldn't Woody make money on PSLs? because he's rich enough? What loyalty exactly is the consumer owed? The goal of a corporation is to make money for it's shareholders, in this case Woody is the shareholder. He should take a bath on the stadium so that a particular segment of the population can still afford to go to games? He and I and everyone else should risk getting their legs cut off by reject escalators because John Q Public can't handle the extra coin?

It all seems kinda commie to me. Every seat should be subsidized and the 50 yard line lowers should be the same price as the end zone lowers? that's not capitalism, comrade.

[Jet Moses]

Moses im kinda dissapointed in you. You have this great financial background, well educated, free market tendancies and relatively libertarian/conservative (from what I've seen on the other site a long time ago)... and here we are you sound like Karl friggin marx.

Marx would have said that the team, the stadium, and the fans all belong to the government. I'm not saying that at all.

But since you brought it up, what exactly is revenue sharing? Why do they have a salary cap? What is a collective bargaining agreement anyway?

Why shouldn't Woody make money on PSLs? because he's rich enough? What loyalty exactly is the consumer owed? The goal of a corporation is to make money for it's shareholders, in this case Woody is the shareholder.

Bad analogy. A football team is a monopoly, indeed, the entire league is. But you are right obviously, he owns it and he can do whatever he wants with it. Fine. Dont use any taxpayer money.

Why should NJ taxpayers subsidize Woody's enterprise that provides a "luxury" service?

He should take a bath on the stadium so that a particular segment of the population can still afford to go to games?

He's taking a bath, now? He's losing money? Not following your argument. Buying the team wasn't a bad investment, he's made money on the team. But the stadium very well may have been a poor decision by both the Jets and Giants.

What I resent and think is total BS is the fact that the Jets and Giants can turn around and make the fans pay for their poor decision.

If things work out...

Woody is going to make money off the infrastructure financed and perpetually paid for by NJ taxpayers. Legally, you are correct, he can charge whatever the market commands, and I'm not saying he can't, nor am I doing anything to impede him. Just calling a spade a spade.

I think it's a pretty sh*tty thing to do to make an investment with little or no risk simply because you can pass your losses off on NJ taxpayers and season ticket holders. And if the venture is successful, not to share in the bounty one iota with those people, but to continue to gouge them and ***** them. That's what Woody is doing, Bit.

He and I and everyone else should risk getting their legs cut off by reject escalators because John Q Public can't handle the extra coin?

Now you are being ridiculous. There is nothing wrong with the stadium the Jets currently play in. Nothing. Any idea how much that stadium has cost NJ taxpayers thus far?

It all seems kinda commie to me. Every seat should be subsidized and the 50 yard line lowers should be the same price as the end zone lowers? that's not capitalism, comrade

You are injecting nonsense into a legitimate argument.

Look, I think you missed the entire point of my article. I was simply pointing out the financial arangements and the movers and shakers involved, and I expressed an opinion that PSL purchasers should beware of the consequences of what they are doing. Maybe the story will have a happy ending, maybe it won't.

[Bugg]

The best part is when there is a lockout/strike in 2011. Then you'll really be glad you made this investment!

In a lookout or strike, especially a long one, the PSL becomes a worthless asset to it's holder. Can't wait for the IRS to deal with that, season ticketholders taking a capital loss on a realized devaluation of PSL. Would like to see how the Jets or the NFL would deal with that.

[nj meadowlands]

What a pic

[Lil Bit Special]

Moses im kinda dissapointed in you. You have this great financial background, well educated, free market tendancies and relatively libertarian/conservative (from what I've seen on the other site a long time ago)... and here we are you sound like Karl friggin marx.

Why shouldn't Woody make money on PSLs? because he's rich enough? What loyalty exactly is the consumer owed? The goal of a corporation is to make money for it's shareholders, in this case Woody is the shareholder. He should take a bath on the stadium so that a particular segment of the population can still afford to go to games? He and I and everyone else should risk getting their legs cut off by reject escalators because John Q Public can't handle the extra coin?

It all seems kinda commie to me. Every seat should be subsidized and the 50 yard line lowers should be the same price as the end zone lowers? that's not capitalism, comrade.

Yep. commie.

You got it.

Nobody ever said 50 yard line seats should cost as much as less desirable seats. You made that up.

Woody has every right to charge what he wants. But if he is a good businessman he should lower his price to guarantee he continues to have customers buying his product. If he tries to price his product at the top end, he limits the customer base. For him it would be better to appeal to more customers and gradually raising the prices rather than topping out a a high price and hoping that 10% continues to support your product.

And the escalators suck because of poor maintenance. They should build a new stadium because they cant maintain something as simple as that? Why should I trust them with 120,000 of my money when they cant keep the escalators working. For the amount of money both teams make per game there is no reason that place should have any problems...

[Lil Bit Special]

I would actually prefer that they just raise the ticket prices, at least that is more intellectually honest. Even with the PSL, the ticket prices will rise, Woody has done it almost every year since buying the team so why stop now? Trying to peddle a PSL as ownership is bogus. If it's ownership, then I want a profit sharing check every year.

Right now, my tickets are just over 100 a game. With a PSL they will be 165. If you factor in the $30,000 for the psl for my seat, it breaks down to about $1,000 a year or an extra 100 a game. So the ticket would be $265.

Without a PSL, the ticket price would probably still be in the 265 range and I have no rights to transfer. I cant decide what happens to my seats. In the short term, you might be able to resell for a profit, but in the long run you hopefully keep the price of the ticket down.

Either way the fan gets to pay for a stadium that isnt needed.

[Jet Moses]

What a pic

GOODNESS GRACIOUS!!!

[Maxman]

80 leave Jet Moses alone. Leave Jet Moses ALONE.

Sorry Jet Mo. This attack on you is just another casualty of your own success. Many haters out there.

Anyhow back to the stadium. Anyone have info on the cup holders? Will they hold the 32oz sodas? I am so excited.

[Jet Moses]

80 leave Jet Moses alone. Leave Jet Moses ALONE.

Sorry Jet Mo. This attack on you is just another casualty of your own success. Many haters out there.

Anyhow back to the stadium. Anyone have info on the cup holders? Will they hold the 32oz sodas? I am so excited.

The restrooms will have troughs. Not sure how the women are going to pee standing up, though.

[Maxman]

The restrooms will have troughs. Not sure how the women are going to pee standing up, though.

I don't want to miss any of the action. If I pay the $20,000 PSL can I just pee in my cup holder?

Please look into this and get back to me. Thanks.

[Jet Moses]

I don't want to miss any of the action. If I pay the $20,000 PSL can I just pee in my cup holder?

Please look into this and get back to me. Thanks.

For $20 grand they should give you a lazyboy and a box of depends.

[bitonti]

Why should NJ taxpayers subsidize Woody's enterprise that provides a "luxury" service?

The only contributions state of NJ is plunking down is the land (free and useless otherwise) and the infrastructure. This is very different then other municipalities, for example the Eagles got the city to put up 100 mill for the stadium construction. NO NJ funds are being used for the stadium construction. The Jets and Giants are taking the money out from financial insitutions like Citi who need the money back ASAP.

But to answer your question the state benefits GREATLY by having the Jets in NJ because of the taxes raised on tickets, parking passes and everything else sold in that stadium. Over time the infrastructure investment will pay off handsomely with built in tax revenues. Corzine might be many things but stupid and a bad businessmen are not among those things. Over the long haul NJ will make money on the Jets, just as they have made money on the Jets for the last 20 plus years.

But the stadium very well may have been a poor decision by both the Jets and Giants.

What I resent and think is total BS is the fact that the Jets and Giants can turn around and make the fans pay for their poor decision.

What other options did Woody have? He tried WSS, he wasted alot of money trying - probably more money than a guy like me makes in his whole life. What other options did the Jets have? LI, Brooklyn, Queens would be just as much a political mess as Manhattan would have been but the difference is that Manhattan was worth the trouble.

Now you are being ridiculous. There is nothing wrong with the stadium the Jets currently play in. Nothing. Any idea how much that stadium has cost NJ taxpayers thus far?

Again the NJ Tax payer MAKES money on the whole deal. To say there is nothing wrong with the stadium is wishful thinking. It's degrading, faster as it gets older. This is not a Fenway Park or Yankee Stadium situation where the building was constructed strongly and using turn of the century standards. These flying saucer buildings from the 70s have a finite life, and judging by similar structures like Busch stadium and Veterans Stadium that life is about 40 years. Giants Stadium might be "fine" now but I'd bet money as time passes we will see more escalator incidents. It is not fine, it is on the brink.

Look, I think you missed the entire point of my article. I was simply pointing out the financial arangements and the movers and shakers involved, and I expressed an opinion that PSL purchasers should beware of the consequences of what they are doing. Maybe the story will have a happy ending, maybe it won't.

You called the article the Big Blue Screw but we should be THANKING the Giants! They set a reasonable price point where the Jets cannot surpass. For those who have 50 yard line lower level seats for 40 years, well 20k per seat isn't "reasonable" but for everyone else it's doable. The legacy "great seats" people have enjoyed an inequal situation that should have been addressed earlier. Seniority shouldn't trump the free market. They had a nice ride but the ride is over.

One more thing let me add, Giants Stadium hasn't been a good place for the Jets... or even the Giants who had to win 11 on the road to get their title last year. Will a new stadium change the luck? Make the crowd better?

It couldn't hurt.

[bitonti]

If you factor in the $30,000 for the psl for my seat

where are you getting that number? the survey?

The Giants max PSL is 20k, JEts can't charge 50% more for the same (or worse) product.

[Maxman]

You called the article the Big Blue Screw but we should be THANKING the Giants! They set a reasonable price point where the Jets cannot surpass.

This is a very good point. The Giants proposed plan does seem reasonable. Yes the 20k 50 yard line people won't think that. But it does strike a balance so they can raise money and not everyone is paying out the nose. Sucks for the people who have had great seats. But it is fair for those in the uppers.

We do hope the Jets can't surpass what the Giants did. But the Jets are pretty good at proving us wrong. Time will tell.

[bitonti]

We do hope the Jets can't surpass what the Giants did. But the Jets are pretty good at proving us wrong. Time will tell.

If the Jets charge more than the Giants I reserve the right to go bananas and revoke all previous "pro-PSL" comments. It would be outlandish.

[Lil Bit Special]

where are you getting that number? the survey?

The Giants max PSL is 20k, JEts can't charge 50% more for the same (or worse) product.

Yes the survey... And if Woody is the businessman that everyone says he is, why cant he charge more than the Giants if people are willing to pay? As long as there is a market, he can charge what he wants.

I expect it to be between 20,000-30,000 per seat.

[Lil Bit Special]

This is a very good point. The Giants proposed plan does seem reasonable. Yes the 20k 50 yard line people won't think that. But it does strike a balance so they can raise money and not everyone is paying out the nose. Sucks for the people who have had great seats. But it is fair for those in the uppers.

We do hope the Jets can't surpass what the Giants did. But the Jets are pretty good at proving us wrong. Time will tell.

It does suck, but its not like I didnt expect it to happen. I have no problem with them charging ridiculous prices for the best seats. Every other sports team does it. Time for the Jets to follow suit.

I am just against the idea of paying for the right to buy tickets. I understand it, I just dont like it. I just hope someone in the uppers wants to swap seats with me so they can have the great investment opportunity... all I ask is pay for my psl's...

[Jet Moses]

The only contributions state of NJ is plunking down is the land (free and useless otherwise) and the infrastructure.

Not true. "NJ taxpayers will be paying over $300 million pay for the infrastructure.." -Corzine

NJ taxpayers will also pay the salaries of the state troopers and all the hack jobs another NJSEA beauracracy will cost.

This is very different then other municipalities, for example the Eagles got the city to put up 100 mill for the stadium construction. NO NJ funds are being used for the stadium construction.

I never said otherwise.

The Jets and Giants are taking the money out from financial insitutions like Citi who need the money back ASAP.

Actually the financing isn't public information so we really don't know the details of how this is getting paid for, or who is footing the bill. I got most if not all my info from bloomberg.com and the Jets official site. Where are you getting your information from?

Citibank isn't lending the Giants or Jets money, they simply were the underwriters for a series of bonds--- who bought those bonds I don't know. I'd like to find out.

But to answer your question the state benefits GREATLY by having the Jets in NJ because of the taxes raised on tickets, parking passes and everything else sold in that stadium. Over time the infrastructure investment will pay off handsomely with built in tax revenues.

Bit, the people of NJ aren't going to see any of that money.

Corzine might be many things but stupid and a bad businessmen are not among those things.

I never said he was stupid, I did suggest he is a crook.

Over the long haul NJ will make money on the Jets, just as they have made money on the Jets for the last 20 plus years.

Just like Atlantic City and the NJ lottery was supposed to pay for our schools, right? But everybody's property taxes keep going up.

If we aint seeing anything from the lottery, we damn sure aint seeing anything from that stadium.

What other options did Woody have? He tried WSS, he wasted alot of money trying - probably more money than a guy like me makes in his whole life. What other options did the Jets have? LI, Brooklyn, Queens would be just as much a political mess as Manhattan would have been but the difference is that Manhattan was worth the trouble.

Woody can do whatever he wants, and I can call him a scumbag for it. It's that simple.

Again the NJ Tax payer MAKES money on the whole deal.

No they don't. NJ Politicians make money on the deal, and dole it out on pet projects to buy votes.

To say there is nothing wrong with the stadium is wishful thinking. It's degrading, faster as it gets older.

Oh please. They aint building a new one out of necessity, they are building it out of greed.

You called the article the Big Blue Screw but we should be THANKING the Giants! They set a reasonable price point where the Jets cannot surpass.

A reasonable price for who?

If Woody can replace all of the loyal Jets fans who are going to be priced out of the new stadium, more power to him. He's a scumbag but he achieved his goal--- make more money.

I hope he doesn't. I hope the stadium is empty.

For those who have 50 yard line lower level seats for 40 years, well 20k per seat isn't "reasonable" but for everyone else it's doable. The legacy "great seats" people have enjoyed an inequal situation that should have been addressed earlier. Seniority shouldn't trump the free market. They had a nice ride but the ride is over.

I hardly think $85 per game was "free ride" but in any event, it is over. Now it will be like $200 a game.

For people who buy $25 shots of vodka and play blackjack at the $500 hand table, 200 bucks is pocket change. I'm just not sure there are that many people like that who are interested in watching a football game in the freezing rain on a Sunday afternoon.

We shall soon see.

[bitonti]

Bit, the people of NJ aren't going to see any of that money.

Just like Atlantic City and the NJ lottery was supposed to pay for our schools, right? But everybody's property taxes keep going up.

If we aint seeing anything from the lottery, we damn sure aint seeing anything from that stadium.

Seems like your problem is with the elected officials - the revenue is coming in, whether you see it or not, whether your property taxes rise or not.

Oh please. They aint building a new one out of necessity, they are building it out of greed.

tell it to the poor sap who lost half a leg at the Giants game. These incidents will get worse not better as an aging stadium continues to age. You can deny that but that's all it is Moses, denial.

I hardly think $85 per game was "free ride" but in any event, it is over. Now it will be like $200 a game.

When a 50 yard lower costs the same as an EZ corner lower, that's a free ride. The quality of viewpoint is vastly different.

For people who buy $25 shots of vodka and play blackjack at the $500 hand table, 200 bucks is pocket change. I'm just not sure there are that many people like that who are interested in watching a football game in the freezing rain on a Sunday afternoon.

I don't think it's quite as bad as that - corporations can write these tickets off, that's a consideration - but only for seats that are good enough to impress potential clients or other big timers. (i.e. lower level between the 30s) - For all the other seats the PSL will be nominal. Is $1000 extra for an upper level corner seat too much to ask? I don't think it is for most fans. Maybe I'm wrong. But Maybe if you are that close to the line you shouldn't be buying Jets tickets in the first place.

Jets tickets have become a luxury item, that's not surprising considering there are millions of people in the tri state area and only 80k seats.

[Jet Moses]

Seems like your problem is with the elected officials - the revenue is coming in, whether you see it or not, whether your property taxes rise or not.

And who's in bed with those elected officials?

I don't think it's quite as bad as that - corporations can write these tickets off, that's a consideration - but only for seats that are good enough to impress potential clients or other big timers. (i.e. lower level between the 30s) -

These tax laws encourage corporations who can give two sh*ts about football to buy the tickets for the write-off and little else. So maybe the seats are empty, maybe their filled with out of towners who got the tickets for "free".

I think that is what Woody wants, 25,000 first timers visiting the stadium. Those are the people who spend the money on all the BS. It'll be like Disneyworld, they can ride the big Pepsi roller coaster.

If it works out for Woody, great. He got what he wanted, more money. But if it don't, alot of loyal Jets fans are going to go away on not come back.

For all the other seats the PSL will be nominal. Is $1000 extra for an upper level corner seat too much to ask?

Bit, it's a shakedown. And for the mom and pop season ticket holders where that $1,000 bucks will break them--- that's a real shame. A real shame. But Woody will get the $1,000 bucks from somebody else so c'est le vie.

I don't think it is for most fans. Maybe I'm wrong. But Maybe if you are that close to the line you shouldn't be buying Jets tickets in the first place.

You know what Bit? Jet fans are passionate, and some are a little crazy. People spend money all the time on ridiculous sh*t they really have no business buying. Jet fans are no different.

I just think that when you have a stadium that holds 85,000 people---

that the 25,000 or so who have been loyal to this team through all that misery who won't be able to afford a PSL, or refuse on principle, well---

Something very real has died here, Bit.

Jets tickets have become a luxury item, that's not surprising considering there are millions of people in the tri state area and only 80k seats

Well, they are conveniently a luxury item now and this is a calculated move by Woody. The old saying "better get while the getting is good" is applied. For Woody anyway.

Let's accept the fact that their is a certain breed out there --- a generation of swine I think Hunter S. Thompson called them--- who only find things as tres chic when it costs alot of money. For these types, the high price tag is the draw. You know, like those ugly purses that sell for $25,000 dollars. And idiots will buy them.

That's the mentality you are going to have in the stadium. Maybe not the majority, but enough to ruin the experience.

And once the novelty wears out? Well, Woody has his fingers crossed it never will.

But I really don't see these types putting up with even months of lousy Jets football the way that the loyal fans who will no longer be able to afford the tickets did for decades.