Pennington Swims With The Fish: MERGED

[Sperm Edwards]

Do I have to go look up your "they really weren't a top 5 or top 10 D in 2004" posts? I'm pretty sure you posted a few to bad mouth Herm, Donnie Henderson or DRob.

I'll agree that being better than Brooks Bollinger isn't quite a feat. For a QB not ****ing up is job 1 and until last year Pennington was excellent at that. No he wasn't going to come in a game down 21 and storm back or match Peyton Manning point for point in a shootout, but he was/is efficient and a quality player.

Just because a few delusional posters want to overstate his value and ability is no reason to bash the guy when he's gone. He never did that to any of the Jets players, coaches or fans no matter what they did to **** him over.

Their defense was overrated, and appeared better than it was due to the competition and, even in blowouts, the lack of need for a team to run up the scoreboard on us (like the 2nd NE game in '04, where the final score in hindsight makes it look a hell of a lot closer than it was).

I wouldn't say he was so much excellent at not ***ing up as he was at times excellent at not ****ing up. Quite often he was not, and there we didn't get to witness a playmaker QB's upside to balance that out. Favre will fail at the not ****ing up task often. But the very traits that cause his ****-up's are also the same ones that allow him to throw game-changing TD's on busted plays. For Pennington to do that on busted plays, we had to rely on events like Leon Washington taking a dumpoff 60 yards to the endzone.

My point was that the number of points given up is more directly related to the number of wins. Whether I think the defense was truly great or not (and it wasn't) has no bearing on it. In order to win most of those games that they did, the offense didn't need to score very much at all. No one yearns to see a repeat of the 2006 Jets defense, but they often made the offense's job very easy whether it was due to crappy competition or not.

So the idea that Pennington "led" us to the playoffs, which infers both (1) that he was the one chiefly responsible, and (2) that some other mediocre QB wouldn't have done at least as well, is baseless garbage.

Using Brooks Bollinger as a basis for comparison is just absurd since he's not even mediocre. No one (other than Fred Jetstone) would argue that Bollinger is or was a better QB than Pennington.

In the end, and I do not fault him for it, I would have been a lot more tolerant of Pennington's mediocrity if he wasn't repeatedly taking up the cap space of a superstar. But since he was taking up that space, I felt pretty justified in feeling he should have been far more of a difference-maker than he was.

And I'm not doing some 180 where I praised the guy when he was here but am only bashing him now (like some). I agree those that are doing that look pretty foolish.

[NJ]

So the idea that Pennington "led" us to the playoffs, which infers both (1) that he was the one chiefly responsible, and (2) that some other mediocre QB wouldn't have done at least as well, is baseless garbage.

Amen.

[#27TheDominator]

Their defense was overrated, and appeared better than it was due to the competition and, even in blowouts, the lack of need for a team to run up the scoreboard on us (like the 2nd NE game in '04, where the final score in hindsight makes it look a hell of a lot closer than it was).

I wouldn't say he was so much excellent at not ***ing up as he was at times excellent at not ****ing up. Quite often he was not, and there we didn't get to witness a playmaker QB's upside to balance that out. Favre will fail at the not ****ing up task often. But the very traits that cause his ****-up's are also the same ones that allow him to throw game-changing TD's on busted plays. For Pennington to do that on busted plays, we had to rely on events like Leon Washington taking a dumpoff 60 yards to the endzone.

My point was that the number of points given up is more directly related to the number of wins. Whether I think the defense was truly great or not (and it wasn't) has no bearing on it. In order to win most of those games that they did, the offense didn't need to score very much at all. No one yearns to see a repeat of the 2006 Jets defense, but they often made the offense's job very easy whether it was due to crappy competition or not.

So the idea that Pennington "led" us to the playoffs, which infers both (1) that he was the one chiefly responsible, and (2) that some other mediocre QB wouldn't have done at least as well, is baseless garbage.

Using Brooks Bollinger as a basis for comparison is just absurd since he's not even mediocre. No one (other than Fred Jetstone) would argue that Bollinger is or was a better QB than Pennington.

In the end, and I do not fault him for it, I would have been a lot more tolerant of Pennington's mediocrity if he wasn't repeatedly taking up the cap space of a superstar. But since he was taking up that space, I felt pretty justified in feeling he should have been far more of a difference-maker than he was.

And I'm not doing some 180 where I praised the guy when he was here but am only bashing him now (like some). I agree those that are doing that look pretty foolish.

I can agree with this. Pennington was a good player and he gave his all for the team. He restructured his deal any time they asked. Just like DRob, it's not his fault that he got a huge contract and high (ridiculous?) expectations. I don't think the guy ever says the wrong thing.

Too many people have this "every other QB will get a safety out of the box" attitude and obviously it's simply not true. Otherwise they would have done a hell of a lot better under Clemens. Favre sure ought to get the safeties playing back but he's a first ballot HOF.

[Sperm Edwards]

I can agree with this. Pennington was a good player and he gave his all for the team. He restructured his deal any time they asked. Just like DRob, it's not his fault that he got a huge contract and high (ridiculous?) expectations. I don't think the guy ever says the wrong thing.

Too many people have this "every other QB will get a safety out of the box" attitude and obviously it's simply not true. Otherwise they would have done a hell of a lot better under Clemens. Favre sure ought to get the safeties playing back but he's a first ballot HOF.

That part is was overblown last year. I don't recall too many "8 or 9 men in the box" situations being the cause of screwing things up for the ground game. There simply was no need to bring a safety (let alone two) in when the Jets had Clarke & Clement (or Montgomery/Clement) and either Barnes or Tutt or no FB at all.

[Jade Green]

I just got in. I should have checked what thread I was responding to. I realized while I was eating that I am nitpicking with you when I am 100% with you on Chad. IMO, the guy gets a bum rap. He played hard and did what he could to help the team. I don't think people appreciate how could he's been or how much his leadership helped in '06. The proof that he's not that bad is that Parcells (who most people on this site respect more than I do) chose to give him $11.5M over two. I guess nine in the box isn't such a big deal.

I thought you were on board with that.

[Ghost]

I don't want to hear this 'Chad Pennington is class' **** anymore, because it's not true. Pennington just wants revenge, he doesn't care about winning or not.

He would of had a better chance with Minny, a SB contender and a team that has a easy schedule.

[#27TheDominator]

I don't want to hear this 'Chad Pennington is class' **** anymore, because it's not true. Pennington just wants revenge, he doesn't care about winning or not.

He would of had a better chance with Minny, a SB contender and a team that has a easy schedule.

Revenge? You're silly. He doesn't give two ****s about revenge. It's the $11.5M he wants. As for the Vikings, they weren't interested. If he wanted revenge and a super bowl ring I'm sure he could have signed with the Pats for the vet minimum.

Pennington not part of the plan

August 8th, 2008 – 11:32 AM by Judd Zulgad While Chad Pennington’s agent said a half-dozen teams have contacted him about the recently-released quarterback, the Vikings are not believed to be one of those clubs. Pennington was released by the Jets on Thursday after the team acquired Brett Favre.

http://blogs.startribune.com/vikingsblog/?p=1794

[Ghost]

Revenge? You're silly. He doesn't give two ****s about revenge. It's the $11.5M he wants. As for the Vikings, they weren't interested. If he wanted revenge and a super bowl ring I'm sure he could have signed with the Pats for the vet minimum.

http://blogs.startribune.com/vikingsblog/?p=1794

11.5 Million?

I'm pretty sure he could of got a contract close to that. He knows the Dolphins aren't going to win for another two decades, he just wants to beat the Jets twice a year so we can regret cutting the guy.

[Jade Green]

Revenge? You're silly. He doesn't give two ****s about revenge. It's the $11.5M he wants. As for the Vikings, they weren't interested. If he wanted revenge and a super bowl ring I'm sure he could have signed with the Pats for the vet minimum.

http://blogs.startribune.com/vikingsblog/?p=1794

Exactly, the fact that he signed with the Fins shows more that he wanted to start than it does anything else.

[Jade Green]

Revenge? You're silly. He doesn't give two ****s about revenge. It's the $11.5M he wants. As for the Vikings, they weren't interested. If he wanted revenge and a super bowl ring I'm sure he could have signed with the Pats for the vet minimum.

http://blogs.startribune.com/vikingsblog/?p=1794

G you're crazy, nobody was giving him that kind of scratch to play back up.

[#27TheDominator]

Revenge? You're silly. He doesn't give two ****s about revenge. It's the $11.5M he wants. As for the Vikings, they weren't interested. If he wanted revenge and a super bowl ring I'm sure he could have signed with the Pats for the vet minimum.

http://blogs.startribune.com/vikingsblog/?p=1794

11.5 Million?

I'm pretty sure he could of got a contract close to that. He knows the Dolphins aren't going to win for another two decades, he just wants to beat the Jets twice a year so we can regret cutting the guy.

Did you read the quote? The Vikings didn't even call his agent. Don't you think that makes it unlikely they'd be willing to give him more than $5M per season? The teams allegedly interested included the Giants, Chiefs and Pats all as a backup. Doubt any were going to offer him $11.5M and I'm sure you'd be complaining just as loud if he'd picked any of those three.

G you're crazy, nobody was giving him that kind of scratch to play back up.

Re-read my post. I said the vet minimum and only to get a ring.

[Ghost]

Did you read the quote? The Vikings didn't even call his agent. Don't you think that makes it unlikely they'd be willing to give him more than $5M per season? The teams allegedly interested included the Giants, Chiefs and Pats all as a backup. Doubt any were going to offer him $11.5M and I'm sure you'd be complaining just as loud if he'd picked any of those three.

Re-read my post. I said the vet minimum and only to get a ring.

Your not understanding me, the Dolphins are prolly the worst team in the NFL. I'm pretty sure another team besides MINNY could of given him a contract.

[#27TheDominator]

Your not understanding me, the Dolphins are prolly the worst team in the NFL. I'm pretty sure another team besides MINNY could of given him a contract.

Maybe I'm not understanding you. The guy wants a chance to start. The Dolphins offered him that opportunity. The other teams mentioned did not. Minny didn't want him, I don't think Chicago did either. Other teams mentioned wanted him as a backup. Even KC said they were only interested in him to backup crappy ass Brodie Croyle. Remember that contract we've been complaining about for years? He is making about the same amount. I don't see how he had a choice. It's nice to think you can refuse to play for a team because you don't like the jersey color, but it doesn't really work like that.

[PeterNorth09]

Your not understanding me, the Dolphins are prolly the worst team in the NFL. I'm pretty sure another team besides MINNY could of given him a contract.

Pennington is better than these starting QB's:

Kyle Boller

Tarvaris Jackson

Kyle Orton

Brodie Croyle

Alex Smith

Chris Redman

Surprised Miami is the only team that went after him but some NFL GM's seem to be comfortable with their heads stuck in their ass.

[serphnx]

Pennington is better than these starting QB's:

Kyle Boller

Tarvaris Jackson

Kyle Orton

Brodie Croyle

Alex Smith

Chris Redman

Surprised Miami is the only team that went after him but some NFL GM's seem to be comfortable with their heads stuck in their ass.

The only person that is starting or will be starting by mid season on that list is Jackson, and there is no question that his potential is much greater than Pennington's. He may not put it together this year, but he also might, so they're better off letting him start and finding out. Pennington would be a backup for the first half of the season at best.

[Ghost]

Maybe I'm not understanding you. The guy wants a chance to start. The Dolphins offered him that opportunity. The other teams mentioned did not. Minny didn't want him, I don't think Chicago did either. Other teams mentioned wanted him as a backup. Even KC said they were only interested in him to backup crappy ass Brodie Croyle. Remember that contract we've been complaining about for years? He is making about the same amount. I don't see how he had a choice. It's nice to think you can refuse to play for a team because you don't like the jersey color, but it doesn't really work like that.

I understand where your coming from, but he signed with the Dolphins just hours before being released.

IMO, I just see him going for revenge.

[Ghost]

Pennington is better than these starting QB's:

Kyle Boller

Tarvaris Jackson

Kyle Orton

Brodie Croyle

Alex Smith

Chris Redman

Surprised Miami is the only team that went after him but some NFL GM's seem to be comfortable with their heads stuck in their ass.

Pennington is not a starter in this league, but the players your naming aren't either.

Is Pennington better than them? Absolutely.

[JETSFAN5180]

I understand where your coming from, but he signed with the Dolphins just hours before being released.

IMO, I just see him going for revenge.

He was a QB without a job.He went to Miami because of Bill Parcells who drafted him they have a connection. Revenge was the last thing on his mind.He wanted a team that wanted him.Give the guy a break already.

[Ghost]

He was a QB without a job.He went to Miami because of Bill Parcells who drafted him they have a connection. Revenge was the last thing on his mind.He wanted a team that wanted him.Give the guy a break already.

Parcells drafted him, okay, and? That means that's automatically what's best for Chad?

And how can you say revenge is the last thing on his mind, we waited this long to cut Chad, don't you thin he's a little mad? Ughhh..YEAH!

[JETSFAN5180]

Parcells drafted him, okay, and? That means that's automatically what's best for Chad?

And how can you say revenge is the last thing on his mind, we waited this long to cut Chad, don't you thin he's a little mad? Ughhh..YEAH!

That means Parcells wanted him as a QB he was familiar with him and Miami needed a QB badly.

Have you ever met Chad or even talked to the guy. I doubt he had revenge on his mind. Kellen Clemens is on SNY right now said it the best about Chad.Did you see it.

[Ghost]

That means Parcells wanted him as a QB he was familiar with him and Miami needed a QB badly.

Have you ever met Chad or even talked to the guy. I doubt he had revenge on his mind. Kellen Clemens is on SNY right now said it the best about Chad.Did you see it.

No, I missed it.

IMO all I think he's trying to do is make us feel guilty. If I was him I would went to Minny for free, that's the absolute perfect place for Pennington.

[JETSFAN5180]

No, I missed it.

IMO all I think he's trying to do is make us feel guilty. If I was him I would went to Minny for free, that's the absolute perfect place for Pennington.

Im guessing Minny showed no interest.Or maybe Pennington jumped at the first offer. He may have been thinking the longer he sits out of a training camp the less his odds are to be an opening day starter some where.Miami was waiting for teams to make cuts or something like this to happen.They were desperate.

[#27TheDominator]

I understand where your coming from, but he signed with the Dolphins just hours before being released.

IMO, I just see him going for revenge.

Yes, if that Brett Favre circus showed us anything, it showed us how wonderful it is to wait for a decision.

[Sperm Edwards]

Maybe I'm not understanding you. The guy wants a chance to start. The Dolphins offered him that opportunity. The other teams mentioned did not. Minny didn't want him, I don't think Chicago did either. Other teams mentioned wanted him as a backup. Even KC said they were only interested in him to backup crappy ass Brodie Croyle. Remember that contract we've been complaining about for years? He is making about the same amount. I don't see how he had a choice. It's nice to think you can refuse to play for a team because you don't like the jersey color, but it doesn't really work like that.

Really? A $6M cap number on Miami's $121M adjusted cap limit is a little different than Pennington's impact on the Jets caps:

2003: Cap limit $75M. CP cap # = $6,898,467

2004: Cap limit $80.5M. CP cap # = $5,073,431

2005: Cap limit $85.5M. CP cap # = $6,000,000

2006: Cap limit $102M. CP cap # = $15,000,000

2007: Jets' adjusted cap limit $106.3M. CP cap # = $7,000,000

Claiming he's making the same amount doesn't mean he affects Miami's cap the same as he did with us. It may be US dollars and US dollars, but that doesn't make it apples & apples.