Clowney? 1st round

[lancemehl]

can clowney solidify our WR corps?

I was thinking WR first round, but we saw him look great get hurt then play once and make a nice play for 20+ yards. We weren't sure if Cotch was still on the team going into his second year.

A lot depends on dumba$$ Favre, make up your mind already, if it's one of the 3 rooks I'd grab a Big bruising RB and go with a three headed monster attack, with high percentage screens and slants, and a game changing D lol

[aec4]

No Clowney does not solidify anything. He's a journeyman. He's fast, but he's still a journeyman. GB didn't see much in him either.

He impressed in the 1st preseason game. Yippee.

This team needs a WR that scares the opponent.. takes the focus off the running game.

[Lil Bit Special]

No Clowney does not solidify anything. He's a journeyman. He's fast, but he's still a journeyman. GB didn't see much in him either.

He impressed in the 1st preseason game. Yippee.

This team needs a WR that scares the opponent.. takes the focus off the running game.

BUT DOOOOOOD!!! That preseason game!!!!! WOW!!!!!! He is a sure HOF'er!!!!!

HIM and RATLIFF will lead us to the PROMISE LAND!! WOO!! I know, I saw how awesome they were in preseason!!!

F#cking Mangini doesnt know how to use either of them, or any of the guys on the practice squad...

[DMaynard]

BUT DOOOOOOD!!! That preseason game!!!!! WOW!!!!!! He is a sure HOF'er!!!!!

HIM and RATLIFF will lead us to the PROMISE LAND!! WOO!! I know, I saw how awesome they were in preseason!!!

F#cking Mangini doesnt know how to use either of them, or any of the guys on the practice squad...

What ever happened to that Derrick Ward guy who the Jets had on their practice squad? I think he is driving a UPS truck now.

[green_blood]

I'm tired of reading all this **** about the preseason heroes Clowney and Ratliff. Give them both a year and they'll be stocking shelves at Shoprite.

[NIGHT STALKER]

How tall is Clowney? Get me a WR that is at least 6'2-6'3 and can get up over a DB and catch the ball.

[lancemehl]

What ever happened to that Derrick Ward guy who the Jets had on their practice squad? I think he is driving a UPS truck now.

How did that kid Chrebet work out?

[NIGHT STALKER]

How did that kid Chrebet work out?

Very few "Chrebets" make it in this league...it's just not the norm.

[124]

How tall is Clowney? Get me a WR that is at least 6'2-6'3 and can get up over a DB and catch the ball.

We need a receiver like that but we also need a speed receiver who can stretch the field and that is what Clowney is a 6'0, 190.

I would like our starting three next season to be Jerricho Cotchery, Darius Heyward-Bey (6'3, 210) -- who I want at 17 and Clowney.

[BroadwayJoe12]

We need a receiver like that but we also need a speed receiver who can stretch the field and that is what Clowney is a 6'0, 190.

I would like our starting three next season to be Jerricho Cotchery, Darius Heyward-Bey (6'3, 210) -- who I want at 17 and Clowney.

I will second the DHB pick, as I have been talking him up since last year, however he isn't the type of receiver that is poised to come in and take over the #2 spot right away. Maybe with a full offseason of workouts and learning the jets route-tree he could come in and perform like that, but with him you are getting a type of a project.

He would definitely have an impact with his speed, leaping ability and knack for getting the big play, but i don't think he is going to come in and be a 60+ reception guy in his first year. He has all the tools to be a true #1, but it just might take a full season or so.

I mean i could 100% be wrong and the kid could be the OROY, but I just think he should be our #3 WR with Cotch and whoever performs best. Hopefully Coles if he can get his **** together.

[124]

BJoe12 if Ryan & the coaching staff feel the same way about him taking a year to develop into a starting receiever, we could always keep Coles for one more season, but I think it would be best if both sides parted ways for good this time.

[BroadwayJoe12]

BJoe12 if Ryan & the coaching staff feel the same way about him taking a year to develop into a starting receiever, we could always keep Coles for one more season, but I think it would be best if both sides parted ways for good this time.

Definitely understandable. I would basically like an open competition at WR, so that everyone gets an equal chance and Coles doesn't get grandfathered in. I'm not sure the cap ramifications with parting ways with Coles, but if it's not too bad, I wouldn't be all to disappointed.

It's just extremely obvious that we need a receiver with size and speed on our team...this is a great year for nabbing on of them.

[Spudicus]

This may be a year to grab one, but there is only 1 WR that is ready to come in and be a starter and that's Crabtree, the rest all need work on the teachables. They all have speed and size but the route running, catching the ball in traffic, blocking, and play recognition need work. Think of Ginn gifted with speed and agility but he needed and still needs time to get the main skills of a WR. I'd rather get a WR in the second round than the first if we can't get an impact guy.

[slats]

It's just extremely obvious that we need a receiver with size and speed on our team...this is a great year for nabbing on of them.

I'd love to get a WR who's the whole package, but if I had to choose one or the other - I'd go with speed. I think Keller can handle a lot of our size issues. The Jets need a guy who can really stretch the field. I'd also try to find a big WR late or as an UFA to develop on the practice squad.

WR's are almost always projects. The guys who perform at a high level right out of college are the rarities. Once we start talking about juniors, that adds more time to develop. The team could really use Stuckey or Clowney taking a major step this year. Clowney's intriguing, but I get the feeling he's pretty breakable. Coles and Cotchery are almost certainly the starters going into the year.

[BroadwayJoe12]

This may be a year to grab one, but there is only 1 WR that is ready to come in and be a starter and that's Crabtree, the rest all need work on the teachables. They all have speed and size but the route running, catching the ball in traffic, blocking, and play recognition need work. Think of Ginn gifted with speed and agility but he needed and still needs time to get the main skills of a WR. I'd rather get a WR in the second round than the first if we can't get an impact guy.

The only comparison that Maclin has to Ginn is that they both posses extreme speed and agility; to me the similarities end right there.

Maclin runs better routes than he's given credit for, is fantastic at getting YAC and excells at catching the ball in traffic. A good deal of his routes were those crossing routes right across the middle that he just brought to the house. The thing i love the most about him is he creates consisten downfield separation, which is something we desperately lack on this team.

Ginn had 110 receptions, 1584 yds and 13 tds in his two years of starting at OSU, while playing across from another 1st round WR selection. Maclin had 182 receptions, 2315 yds and 22 tds.

I know stats don't justify how good a prospect a player is, but i just wanted to make the distinction that he far surpassed Ginn as far as production and is nothing like cribbs or hester, as those comparisons come up a lot.

He's also closer to 6'1 than he is 6' and weighs a solid 195-200lbs. Which is a big difference compared to the desean jacksons (5'9.5 169 lbs) and teddy ginns( 5"11 178lbs).

He could wind up being our #1 WR ala steve smith, or a #2 who can stretch the field and open it up for the rest of our receievers.

[BroadwayJoe12]

I'd love to get a WR who's the whole package, but if I had to choose one or the other - I'd go with speed. I think Keller can handle a lot of our size issues. The Jets need a guy who can really stretch the field. I'd also try to find a big WR late or as an UFA to develop on the practice squad.

WR's are almost always projects. The guys who perform at a high level right out of college are the rarities. Once we start talking about juniors, that adds more time to develop. The team could really use Stuckey or Clowney taking a major step this year. Clowney's intriguing, but I get the feeling he's pretty breakable. Coles and Cotchery are almost certainly the starters going into the year.

It definitely would be nice to get someone with that whole package, ala Andre Johnson, but that's such a tough thing to find. I would say DHB would be the closest thing to Andre in this draft.

Some other guys with a good size/speed ratio would definitely be Kenny Britt of course, Louis Murphy out of Florida, Brian Robiskie has shown some skills, my boy Demetrius Byrd outta LSU and then a very intriguing player out of Cal Poly in Ramses Barden (6'6 230ish). Barden absolutely dominated D1-AA and i was eager to see him in the senior bowl until he left with an injury i believe.

[Spudicus]

Oh i agree fully that Maclin is a better WR than Ginn and I'd love to have Maclin at 17, but then that makes 2 of Clowney, Stuckey, Smith or Henry useless, if we get Maclin he'd be the number 3 easily unless one of those guys seriously steps up. Wright is our number 6 guy, pure special teamer and good at it. We'd need to keep Coles unless Maclin proves he can be a 2 and Cotch proves he can be the 1. So who do we cut bait on if we draft a WR?

[BroadwayJoe12]

Oh i agree fully that Maclin is a better WR than Ginn and I'd love to have Maclin at 17, but then that makes 2 of Clowney, Stuckey, Smith or Henry useless, if we get Maclin he'd be the number 3 easily unless one of those guys seriously steps up. Wright is our number 6 guy, pure special teamer and good at it. We'd need to keep Coles unless Maclin proves he can be a 2 and Cotch proves he can be the 1. So who do we cut bait on if we draft a WR?

Good point. We have a surpluss WRs who have very similar skill sets. This is definitely the year to have an open competition and to see which guys can make a contribution on Offense and just part ways with the others to make room for those who can.

I like what they all bring to the table, but it's gotten to the point where we have too much depth and haven't been able to see what some of them can offer. Hopefully we can thin it all out this year.

[Sharrow]

Coles is the same cap hit off the team as he would be on it isn't he?

[green_blood]

If we got Darius Heyward Ay Bay Bey, next year would be a nasty receiving corps. Coles, Cotchery, Bey and Keller. And if Washington gets more touches (carries and catches), the offense will be a top unit. Well, thats if we get solid QB performance. Cut Ainge (he sucks, get over it, i dont care how tall he is), say ta-ta to Brett, get a vet for insurance (which i admit is slim pickums, because Jeff Garcia is the most likely to be available on the cheap) and let Clemens and the Savior and Lord Jesus Christ of the Preseason aka Brett Ratliff have a shot. I'm banking on Clemens.

[Jerichoholic]

hey-bey at 17 seems a bit of a reach this early in things ...

even with all of the Gholston bust conversation of the past few days ... I am amazed that people still get this riled up over guys that have amazing measurables and still don't produce that much in college

[Vudu]

You guys are so quick to put someone down without seeing what they can do first.

[Spudicus]

Well most mocks have Bey going in the second round, now that's without much scouting, reports are only just now starting to come out for the seniors who went to the workouts. It is a bit premature to say if a guy is a reach or not, but Bey hasn't proven he's the second best WR out there either. We need to see what they can do at the combine before making declartions, but right now based on what we know of his production and capabilites at the college level he's a borderline guy, high second low first which at 17 would technically be a reach.

[BroadwayJoe12]

hey-bey at 17 seems a bit of a reach this early in things ...

even with all of the Gholston bust conversation of the past few days ... I am amazed that people still get this riled up over guys that have amazing measurables and still don't produce that much in college

I am not basing my like for DHB on his measurables alone, but on his play during the games. Have you ever seen him play?? Does DHB have anything to do with gholston?? Are we going to force DHB to play TE (having gholston play a new position) and play in a completely different type of system that he is ill-suited for (the read and react compared to just letting him rush the QB)?? No, we aren't.

A quick question..Would you have selected Calvin Johnson with the 17th pick if he were in this draft, knowing only what he did in college and the combine?? If you say no you are just lying.

The truth of the matter is that DHB put up fairly similar numbers to Calvin, in a run-oriented offensive scheme and with a QB that made Reggie Ball look like a solid passer.

DHB - 138 receptions, 2,089, 13

CJ- 178 Receptions, 2,927 yds and 28 tds

CJ was a 6'5 235 lb freak who ran a 4.3ish 40, but didn't completely dominate the league like someone would expect. What people were going on was his body control, great hands etc. IE. measurables. And yes he had and has phenomenal measurables.

DHB is 6'3 205 lbs with blazing speed, possibly sub 4.3 40, and incredible leaping ability. He has shown to not only be a deep threat, but runs good crossing routes, can catch in traffic.

It also fulfills an area of great need for us. A WR with size and someone who can get consistent downfield separation.

You are definitely entitled to your opinion and even given this information many people would still feel he is not a solid pick for us. But, you have to watch the player, understand what was holding him back in college and make an evaluation that way. Also, as we all know, stats and production isn't the end all be all of a prospect.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Well most mocks have Bey going in the second round, now that's without much scouting, reports are only just now starting to come out for the seniors who went to the workouts. It is a bit premature to say if a guy is a reach or not, but Bey hasn't proven he's the second best WR out there either. We need to see what they can do at the combine before making declartions, but right now based on what we know of his production and capabilites at the college level he's a borderline guy, high second low first which at 17 would technically be a reach.

We also have to realize that most mocks should be taken with a grain of salt, considering the owners aren't NFL scouts, GMs etc. NFLDC is probably the best mock out there, considering Scott Wright has won best draft site and one of the most accurate mockers out there the last handful of years.

Our draft history has been pretty solid the last 3 years, albeit never picking high on skill positions besides keller, it's tough to tell how they do in that department.

[Spudicus]

I agree I usually check NFLDC, Walter Football and McShay then go off that. I like what Bey Brings to the table but want to see more of him first, as I do with all the WR. Also given the fact that they were smart enough to take Keller over all the other WR was a smart move, had the offense not broken down the last 6 games of the season Keller could have had 3-4 more touchdowns and close to 800 yards. So I trust our scouts and Tanny to draft offense well, they'e made good decisions in the mid and late first round..heck thay's where all of our great picks come from Mangold, Revis, and Keller.

[villain_the_foe]

I'm tired of reading all this **** about the preseason heroes Clowney and Ratliff. Give them both a year and they'll be stocking shelves at Shoprite.

thats all we're asking for though. Lets do that, lets give them a year. Its not like we have a solidified QB right now. We have Clemens...thats it. Coles is halfway out the window right now too. Cotch is great but he's slower and cant really stretch the field. Stuckey is a slot. I dont see why we cant just put Clowney and Ratliff on the field and see what they can do without people making a big deal about it. We always want talent that some other team developed, and we wonder why when people leave this team they end up going other places and doing great...its because we leave them on the damn practice squad.

[Spudicus]

We always want talent that some other team developed, and we wonder why when people leave this team they end up going other places and doing great...its because we leave them on the damn practice squad.

Amen brother I've been saing that for weeks now the Jets have a poor history of developing talent they draft, run them out there and see what happens. They thought enough to sign them and keep them on the team as long as they have now let them play. Cotch, Clowney, Stuckey, Henry looks a lot like what the Steelers have in Ward, Holmes, Washington and Sweed.

[shodan9999]

can clowney solidify our WR corps?

I was thinking WR first round, but we saw him look great get hurt then play once and make a nice play for 20+ yards. We weren't sure if Cotch was still on the team going into his second year.

A lot depends on dumba$$ Favre, make up your mind already, if it's one of the 3 rooks I'd grab a Big bruising RB and go with a three headed monster attack, with high percentage screens and slants, and a game changing D lol

Keep this guy and see what he can do over the course of a season..I think it will be nice !

[Jbro22]

Don't even get me started on this one.

Edit: Not to mention, we'd have the shortage average starting 3 WR's of all time. Not sure if thats true, but I'm pretty confident I'm right.

[villain_the_foe]

Amen brother I've been saing that for weeks now the Jets have a poor history of developing talent they draft, run them out there and see what happens. They thought enough to sign them and keep them on the team as long as they have now let them play. Cotch, Clowney, Stuckey, Henry looks a lot like what the Steelers have in Ward, Holmes, Washington and Sweed.

Exactly. I tend to understand where alot of fellow Jet fans come from. But seriously, we're looking to put EVERYTHING on a 40 year old arm that hasnt been great in the month of December in the last 3+ years (dont get me wrong, as a football fan, I love what Favre has done for the sport). However, as a Jet fan, I simply want to see what our talent can really, REALLY do. I can care less what anyone says, Brett Ratliff showed flashes of greatness,...not that he "is" great, but that he's a promising talent that just needs to be put in position to flourish. Why do we hate developing talent I will never know. Brett Ratliff should be taken more seriously. Many people (including myself) talk about the games that Ratliff played and the passing yards that he's gotten on "one play". I go a bit further than that. I recorded on my DVR those preseason games that he played in. There were many things outside of him throwing the football that makes him a great cosideration for the job.

Example: during one of these games I remember that he was getting blitzed from an end linebacker on his right side while receiving presure a bit up the middle-left, what Ratliff did to get out of that situation was absolutely amazing for an undrafted QB trying to display is talent on the grand stage. Instead of Ratliff tucking the ball and running, he made a very good QB decision. He displayed an incredible pump fake...not just moving the ball with his arm but it was his entire body motion. Well, the Linebacker bit and jumped right out of the play. Then Ratliff having pressure on his middle left simply took a little QB "hop step" towards his right side while at the same time putting his body and feet into position that once he landed back on the floor he could throw a pass to the WR's left shoulder because the defender was coming to his right.

THIS IS JUST ONE OF MANY PLAYS THAT RATLIFF MADE VERY MINDFUL DECISIONS ON. and if you have lost your feeling on this guy I suggest that you find those games that he played and just watch him. This kid isnt a 3rd string QB.

Im not saying that this dude is the next Tom Brady, What Im saying is that he is the first Brett Ratliff and maybe we should be paying more attention to him because he makes WR's like Clowney look hella awesome as well. The kid has skills.

Yet, time and time again the Jets do not take the time out to develop their talent...unless they're Vernon Gholston and even with Gholston, he was deactivated at some time last year.

Im just saying that this is probably the most overall talented Jet team this organization has EVER had...maybe with Rex Ryan (understanding what it is to develop talent) We can have our David Clowney's, Vernon Gholston, Dwight Lowery, Brett Ratliff, Kellen Clemens (wont forget him) of this team really step up and have that impact.

for the record. The three guys that I think will be insane in this league if given a chance....

Dwight Lowery (with time, because he has the brains)

Vernon Gholston (if geared towards is abilities)

Brett Ratliff (Another Steve Young sitting on the bench...I put my heart on that one).

[BroadwayJoe12]

I gotta agree with you VOF. There is nothing that Flacco has that Ratliff doesn't. I don't see how an open competition of Clemens and Ratliff could be any worse than what Flacco did with the Ravens. These two QBs have been a couple years in our system and will play behind an awesome oline, with a great running game and hopefuly en elite defense.

I don't care if it's clemens or ratliff in '09, but I just think they should be given the opporunity to show who is the best QB for the job.

[villain_the_foe]

I gotta agree with you VOF. There is nothing that Flacco has that Ratliff doesn't. I don't see how an open competition of Clemens and Ratliff could be any worse than what Flacco did with the Ravens. These two QBs have been a couple years in our system and will play behind an awesome oline, with a great running game and hopefuly en elite defense.

I don't care if it's clemens or ratliff in '09, but I just think they should be given the opporunity to show who is the best QB for the job.

And I agree with you. Think about this. We have D'Brick coming into his own because he's able to do his job and not worry anyone else because he has probowler Alan Faneca on his right. We have Nick Mangold who's a probowler and has been great since coming out of college. We also have a pretty solid right side of the O-line as well here.

Now, this is where things get real crazy. We have TJ that just had possibly the best year as an RB in Jets history, mixed in with one of the best "change of pace" RB's in the game today. We have a TRUE possessions WR in Cotchery (this dude has hands) as well as a Hybrid TE with hands and one of the better blocking TE's in Chris Baker. Match that with Stuckey coming up as a dependable target and Coles still being recognized as out main threat (he still has his speed which makes him a threat).

Why wouldnt Clowney and Ratliff NOT succeed? they have targets. Both Clowney and Coles could put pressure on the safeties, Keller opening up the run because LB's are forced to pay attention, Cotch being a fav target under the safties and having TJ and Washington getting the majority of the first downs needed to keep drives alive.

Look, we dont need Brett Favre. What we need is cap space for another Corner, WR and DE.

Get us those three positions covered with talent...I say that the Jets with this coaching staff could really go far.

Oh, and to quickly address what you added. You're on point, to further elaborate. Joe Flacco doesnt have the talent on Offense as what Ratliff has right now. We know we have the talent on defense, its just that we didnt have the correct tools on the coaching end. We have it now.

If this team were to see ANY team in the playoffs next year...our Defense will be feared because they can defend the offensive points put up.

Joe Flacco lived off that Ravens defense....but he's not a Matt Ryan...or a Brett Ratliff. If Joe can go that far with that Ravens team. Just imagine if given a chance to what Ratliff can do. Thats where you're so right because no one on an indiviual bases can tell me that Joe Flacco is better than Brett Ratliff with what we seen in Ratliff.

We have our superbowl sitting on the damn bench. Rex hopefully will see the talent and change that.

The Superbowl Bound Arizona Cardinals are not as talented as the "missed playoff" Jets. We are in a situation where we're in one tough division and are a few plays away from competing for dominance of the AFC.

WR, DE, CB and the passion for the game that Rex will bring. I smell it in the air fellas!

[Spudicus]

Don't even get me started on this one.

Edit: Not to mention, we'd have the shortage average starting 3 WR's of all time. Not sure if thats true, but I'm pretty confident I'm right.

Coles is our shortest at 5'11"

Cotch is 6'

Stuckey is 6'

Clowney is 6'

Smith is 6'2"

Wright is 6'1"

Henry is 6'4"

TE

Keller 6'2"

Baker 6'3"

Franks 6'6"

Lets add the 4 confrence championship teams for comparison

Steelers:

Ward 6'

Holmes 5'11"

Washington 6'1

Sweed 6'4"

Ravens:

Clayton 5'10"

Mason 5'10"

Copper 6'

Smith 6'1"

Figurs 5'11"

Eagles

Avant 6'

Baskett 6'4"

Brown 6'1"

Curtis 6'

Jackson 5'10"

Lewis 6'

Cardinals:

Fitzy 6'3"

Boldin 6'1"

Breaston 6'0"

Doucet 6'

Urban 6'3"

Morey 5'11"

Gee I dunno maybe it looks like the best thing is having WR's who know the system and PLAY TOGETHER AS A G** D*** TEAM spreading the ball around. When you have one big target at WR and refuse to develop the talent around him you know what you become....THE GIANTS!!!

Look where it got them this year when the lost Plaxico.

[Jbro22]

Coles is our shortest at 5'11"

Cotch is 6'

Stuckey is 6'

Clowney is 6'

Smith is 6'2"

Wright is 6'1"

Henry is 6'4"

TE

Keller 6'2"

Baker 6'3"

Franks 6'6"

Lets add the 4 confrence championship teams for comparison

Steelers:

Ward 6'

Holmes 5'11"

Washington 6'1

Sweed 6'4"

Ravens:

Clayton 5'10"

Mason 5'10"

Copper 6'

Smith 6'1"

Figurs 5'11"

Eagles

Avant 6'

Baskett 6'4"

Brown 6'1"

Curtis 6'

Jackson 5'10"

Lewis 6'

Cardinals:

Fitzy 6'3"

Boldin 6'1"

Breaston 6'0"

Doucet 6'

Urban 6'3"

Morey 5'11"

Gee I dunno maybe it looks like the best thing is having WR's who know the system and PLAY TOGETHER AS A G** D*** TEAM spreading the ball around. When you have one big target at WR and refuse to develop the talent around him you know what you become....THE GIANTS!!!

Look where it got them this year when the lost Plaxico.

The superbowl 42 Giants?

Your right man, I don't what I was thinking. God forbid the Jets win a championship.