piney Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 So, I remember in the late 90's the argument was "Wo is the best SS, Jeter, A-rod, Nomar, or Tejada." It was always asserted by most Yankee fans I know that they would take Jeter over any of the other three players, which was normally treated with laughter from detractors. A-Rod was considered hands down the best of the four, Nomar was second, Tejada was the one with the potential to be the best at the time and Jeter was an overrated guy who was lucky enough to be on the Yankees during their run of championships. Heck, I remember even when Renteria came up he was said to be the next great SS to enter that class, and be yet another player many would consider better than Jeter. Now, 10 years have gone by... Nomar faded and couldn't stay healthy or kepp up his numbers, Tejada and A-rod are steroid users and considered cheaters by many. So, is Jeter again the best of the four? He has had really no noticeable decline offensively, putting up rather steady and reliable numbers. He plays hard, is seemingly PED free, and for all of his detractors, is the perfect citizen on and off the field. So, was Jeter overrated in the 90's by Yankees fans? Underrated by Yankee haters? Will his numbers loom larger when his career is over, if in fact, he never gets either suspected of or proven to have used PEDs? Does his ability to outlast Nomar and Tejada with consistant production elevate him above those two players? Does Jeter's playoff and big game performances overshadow A-rod and his lack thereof in addition to A-rods steroid use? Where does Jeter stand now, 10 years later, with everything we know? Is Nomar a Steroid suspect? Is Renteria? If so, how does that impact Jeter's career standing and his stature among his peers? food for thought Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jetkid94 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 jeter is flatout one of the best shortstops of all time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Irish Jet Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 It's tough to presume any individual player hasn't taken steroids in baseball. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Otter Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 I'm so happy that Jeter has been the cornerstone of my favorite team since 1995. The guy comes to play every night and cares more about winning than any individual glory. Out of the players listed above Jeter isn't the flashiest, offensively or defensively, but I'd rather have him than any of them. The guy is clutch. Here is a clip of maybe the best defensive play I have ever seen. ndaiqhTLuTQ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrissey Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 So, I remember in the late 90's the argument was "Wo is the best SS, Jeter, A-rod, Nomar, or Tejada." It was always asserted by most Yankee fans I know that they would take Jeter over any of the other three players, which was normally treated with laughter from detractors. A-Rod was considered hands down the best of the four, Nomar was second, Tejada was the one with the potential to be the best at the time and Jeter was an overrated guy who was lucky enough to be on the Yankees during their run of championships. Heck, I remember even when Renteria came up he was said to be the next great SS to enter that class, and be yet another player many would consider better than Jeter. Now, 10 years have gone by... Nomar faded and couldn't stay healthy or kepp up his numbers, Tejada and A-rod are steroid users and considered cheaters by many. So, is Jeter again the best of the four? He has had really no noticeable decline offensively, putting up rather steady and reliable numbers. He plays hard, is seemingly PED free, and for all of his detractors, is the perfect citizen on and off the field. So, was Jeter overrated in the 90's by Yankees fans? Underrated by Yankee haters? Will his numbers loom larger when his career is over, if in fact, he never gets either suspected of or proven to have used PEDs? Does his ability to outlast Nomar and Tejada with consistant production elevate him above those two players? Does Jeter's playoff and big game performances overshadow A-rod and his lack thereof in addition to A-rods steroid use? Where does Jeter stand now, 10 years later, with everything we know? Is Nomar a Steroid suspect? Is Renteria? If so, how does that impact Jeter's career standing and his stature among his peers? food for thought No, not even close. A-Rod is head and shoulders better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piney Posted February 19, 2009 Author Share Posted February 19, 2009 No, not even close. A-Rod is head and shoulders better. My point isn't to say that Jeter is better, obviously you would have to be an idiot to think he was, my point is that he is better than his detractors claim, and maybe he hasn't been overrated. That his standing, when all is said and done, will be deserved rather than Jeter being the product of his team. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrissey Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 My point isn't to say that Jeter is better, obviously you would have to be an idiot to think he was, my point is that he is better than his detractors claim, and maybe he hasn't been overrated. That his standing, when all is said and done, will be deserved rather than Jeter being the product of his team. People who have said Jeter is overrated have always been wrong. He's probably going to be the fastest player to 3,00 hits, his career numbers speak for them self. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piney Posted February 19, 2009 Author Share Posted February 19, 2009 People who have said Jeter is overrated have always been wrong. He's probably going to be the fastest player to 3,00 hits, his career numbers speak for them self. Well, of course Yankee fans think that, but I wonder if this entire Steroid Era Fiasco will force his detractors to reconsider Jeter's place in the pantheon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AdropOFvenom Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Steroids or not, Alex Rodriguez could still go down as one of the 10 best hitters of all time. Derek Jeter isn't on that level. Ironically though, Jeter might end up being the only Hall of Famer among that class of Shortstops. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
adb280z Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 So, I remember in the late 90's the argument was "Wo is the best SS, Jeter, A-rod, Nomar, or Tejada." It was always asserted by most Yankee fans I know that they would take Jeter over any of the other three players, which was normally treated with laughter from detractors. A-Rod was considered hands down the best of the four, Nomar was second, Tejada was the one with the potential to be the best at the time and Jeter was an overrated guy who was lucky enough to be on the Yankees during their run of championships. Heck, I remember even when Renteria came up he was said to be the next great SS to enter that class, and be yet another player many would consider better than Jeter. Now, 10 years have gone by... Nomar faded and couldn't stay healthy or kepp up his numbers, Tejada and A-rod are steroid users and considered cheaters by many. So, is Jeter again the best of the four? He has had really no noticeable decline offensively, putting up rather steady and reliable numbers. He plays hard, is seemingly PED free, and for all of his detractors, is the perfect citizen on and off the field. So, was Jeter overrated in the 90's by Yankees fans? Underrated by Yankee haters? Will his numbers loom larger when his career is over, if in fact, he never gets either suspected of or proven to have used PEDs? Does his ability to outlast Nomar and Tejada with consistant production elevate him above those two players? Does Jeter's playoff and big game performances overshadow A-rod and his lack thereof in addition to A-rods steroid use? Where does Jeter stand now, 10 years later, with everything we know? Is Nomar a Steroid suspect? Is Renteria? If so, how does that impact Jeter's career standing and his stature among his peers? food for thought ARod is the best of the 4. Jeter is 2nd due to longevity over Garciaparra. For all the credit Jeter gets as being a "winner" how many rings would ARod have if had been on those teams and how many would Jeter have if he had been on the teams Arod was on? To me Arod would have 4 and Jeter would have 0. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaded Green Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 No, not even close. A-Rod is head and shoulders better. Who has been better in the cluthch, and when it counts most in the playoffs? Again, not even close. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
piney Posted February 19, 2009 Author Share Posted February 19, 2009 Who has been better in the cluthch, and when it counts most in the playoffs? Again, not even close. what about the steroid use? Will that affect how some people view these SS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaded Green Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 what about the steroid use? Will that affect how some people view these SS?Alex is definitely better, who knows how long he used roids, or anything else and if he ever stopped. Regardless I'd say he is better, but either way, I'd rather have Jeter. When all is said and done, Jete is going to be respected more than any of them for what he did in his career, and how he conducted himself. Jeter is mostly likely going to be the first Yankee ever to reach 3,000 hits, sure Gehrig and Dimaggio would have if not for health and war but they were robbed. Hopefully Jeter will see it through and as a Yankee. He is on a good pace to catch Rose even, but he's still got a long way to go and I doubt he will play long enough to catch him, I also think his pace is going to drop off some. All four were great players, but they all were also a disgrace compared to Jeter. #2 is clutch, after all is said and done, I want him over the rest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsMetsRangers Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Alex is definitely better, who knows how long he used roids, or anything else and if he ever stopped. Regardless I'd say he is better, but either way, I'd rather have Jeter. When all is said and done, Jete is going to be respected more than any of them for what he did in his career, and how he conducted himself. Jeter is mostly likely going to be the first Yankee ever to reach 3,000 hits, sure Gehrig and Dimaggio would have if not for health and war but they were robbed. Hopefully Jeter will see it through and as a Yankee. He is on a good pace to catch Rose even, but he's still got a long way to go and I doubt he will play long enough to catch him, I also think his pace is going to drop off some. All four were great players, but they all were also a disgrace compared to Jeter. #2 is clutch, after all is said and done, I want him over the rest. +1......Jeter is a class act and a proven big game player and above all a winning player.......A-rod is classless and so far a loser....Tejada is a disgrace and Nomar faded into mediocrity..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Eckstein > Jeter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaded Green Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Eckstein > Jeter.Yeah they certainly have had comparable careers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
neckdemon Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 well as a yankee hater.........i'll say that out of the 4, yes i consider jeter the best. i'm assuming jeter hasn't cheated like aroid and tejada. jeter really doesn't fit the steroids bill, and i'd be terribly surprised if he did take them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsis Posted February 19, 2009 Share Posted February 19, 2009 Jeter isn't flashy and gets a lot of hate because of all the hot chicks he banged and all the women who loved him. However, he is one heck of a consistent ball player. A-rod is a better player but I would take Jeter on my team over him any day of the week. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Who has been better in the cluthch, and when it counts most in the playoffs? Again, not even close. That's not true and SI documented it a few years ago. Jeter clutch in the post season is just something many grew up hearing Buck and McCarver say over and over. Some blogger and SI as well did a in depth statistical study of his post seasons and Jeter came off far from a player deserving the clutch label he had been given. ARod has been bad as well but the gap is not what you are implying. I did love the fact that Jeter said yesterday he was sick of everyone(and that includes fans) saying well it's no big deal (roids) everyone was doing it. That statement has been used as a excuse making it ok for a player to cheat as long as he apologizes once caught. Jeter may have gave his best presser ever yesterday. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Morrissey Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 It depends on how you define clutch. Most people think clutch is when you are better when it counts the most. That isn't the case with Jeter. In his case, Jeter just doesn't let the moment get the better of him. He doesn't get better, he just stays the same. It's obvious with A-Rod, he lets the big moments get the better of him, but I still have hope for him. Bonds finally got over that. PS. This was my favorite presser Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GimmeShelter Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Agree in that Jeter stays the same player statistic wise.....310 or so average but in clutch post season spots he actually gets worse. This guy did some research back after the 2003 post season and the numbers were suprising. http://www.aarongleeman.com/2003_10_26_baseballblog_archive.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 ^^^ and we all know stats ALWAYS tell the whole story thanks, mets fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 ^^^ and we all know stats ALWAYS tell the whole story thanks, mets fan. Always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barton Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Always. No question GS has that link saved on his computer, but does he have a backup file just in case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 Jeter in the playoffs from 96- to 2001(after the A's series he got hurt) was one of the best post season players of all time. Jeter will go down as a top 5 SS of all time. 4 rings first, Yankee to 3,000 hits etc. I forgot to add though. Carlos Guillen > Jeter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arsis Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 That link was dumb. Did you actually read it? The guy made no ****ing sense in what he was writing and took some random sample size of information for no apparent reason. Why was he only looking at Jeter's post season stats from 00-03? Makes no ****ing sense to me. Putting up all star numbers in the post season doesn't make you clutch it makes you really good? That was the argument here? Really? pathetic. I'd also like to see how you would put things like the flip play into stats? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aten Posted February 20, 2009 Share Posted February 20, 2009 That link was dumb. Did you actually read it? The guy made no ****ing sense in what he was writing and took some random sample size of information for no apparent reason. Why was he only looking at Jeter's post season stats from 00-03? Makes no ****ing sense to me. Putting up all star numbers in the post season doesn't make you clutch it makes you really good? That was the argument here? Really? pathetic. I'd also like to see how you would put things like the flip play into stats? Hence the clutch myth. I don't think I've ever seen somebody so proud at failing a litmus test. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted February 22, 2009 Share Posted February 22, 2009 ARod > Jeter > Nomar > Tejada Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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