Who would you pick at 17 if

[JETSorDIE]

Hakeem Nicks would need a serious amount of consideration. I also believe you have to at least think about Mark Sanchez as an option. I know a lot of people don't want him but if the Organisation thinks he would be a franchise QB, I don't see how you could pass up on him.

Other players I'd consider - Wells, Heyward-Bey (Although I'm not a huge fan), Moreno etc. Something to improve the offense anyways. A weapon (Even if it's to reinforce the running game) to help our QB's.

+1

[Sperm Edwards]

I totally agree but that's why I want to trade down. You said the rules were to write in options. Let Minnesota or Tampa Bay take Sanchez.

I like this best.

Trading with Tampa (if they want Sanchez & we don't) effectively moves us down one slot from 17 to 19. If we weren't going to take Sanchez at 17 anyway, the only pick before us that could take "our guy" would be #18. Plus we'd get a "free" 4(20) & 7(8).

Trading with Minnesota drops us to #22 (but again, only puts 5 picks that we care about, not 6, between our original first-pick and our new first-pick). That would net more back in trade: 3(22) and 7(12); it would basically get us our Brett Favre 3rd-rounder back.

If the types of players we're looking are reaches at #17 and would still be there 2-6 slots later, I can't see them staying pat. We traded away 2 picks before the draft (3rd for Favre, 5th for Sheppard) & you know Tannenbaum wants at least one of them back.

[Montreal Jet]

None of the above.

Go with either Hakeem Nicks, Derius Heyward-Bey or Josh Freeman.

+ 1

[124]

tanny wont reach for a player, and the player your talking about are just not the same value

Those players are wanted in the 20's, if you want them, you can get them at 17. There is no reason to be stupid and let a player whose projected to go 5 or 6 picks later go past you because he's projected to go that far. Its how you and your team evaluates these guys and I would hope the Jets (like the Ravens) are evaluationg Darrius Heyward-Bey as a late 1st round pick.

BTW, Tanny won't reach? Are you kidding me?

The only time its a reach is if the player is projected to go at like, 30, and you're picking in the Top 10.

[slats]

I also believe you have to at least think about Mark Sanchez as an option. I know a lot of people don't want him but if the Organisation thinks he would be a franchise QB, I don't see how you could pass up on him.

The Jets are doing their due diligence on him, I suspect to make sure they really don't want him.

I'm down with the Pettigrew pick. I think a solid all around TE would start right away, as opposed to the RB's who wouldn't even see the light of day. If they see him as the better value than any WR on the board at the time, they should pull the trigger.

[124]

We don't need a TE, that would be stupid.

Mark Sanchez? Please. The Jets would be 10x better off with Josh Freeman.

A man with better mobility, height, strength, ARM strength and who played with basically nothing around him and still put up good numbers and didn't ever back down. Anyone can go play at USC and put up numbers and look good.

Sanchez is crap. If we pick him, we set this team back 3 years. It would be like Kyle Boller without the arm strength.

[slats]

We don't need a TE, that would be stupid.

It would be stupid to think that TE isn't a huge hole on the roster right now.

[124]

It would be stupid to think that TE isn't a huge hole on the roster right now.

Wrong.

BLOCKING Tight End is a huge hole in the offense. You don't take someone whose going to stay in and block at 17. Oh wait, we're the Jets, we took Kyle Brady in the first round once so you never know, do you?

Dustin Keller is going to be our receiving threat at the TE position, all we need is someone to go in there and be an effective blocker. Using the 17th overall pick on that is just ridiculous. Pettigrew doesn't even fit that mold, either.

[slats]

Wrong.

BLOCKING Tight End is a huge hole in the offense. You don't take someone whose going to stay in and block at 17. Oh wait, we're the Jets, we took Kyle Brady in the first round once so you never know, do you?

Dustin Keller is going to be our receiving threat at the TE position, all we need is someone to go in there and be an effective blocker. Using the 17th overall pick on that is just ridiculous. Pettigrew doesn't even fit that mold, either.

Blocking TE is a BS position. You don't want to telegraph your offense's intentions by which TE you send into the huddle. You want a complete TE who's both a solid blocker and a threat to catch the ball. That's how you create mismatches with the player.

We have inexperienced QB's who'll benefit from both the blocking ability and a large target to throw the ball to.

I think the Jets were foolish to let Chris Baker go, but now they need to fill that spot. They don't have to fill it with a first round pick, but if the value's there they shouldn't be afraid to pull the trigger.

[Bachelors3]

I like this best.

Trading with Tampa (if they want Sanchez & we don't) effectively moves us down one slot from 17 to 19. If we weren't going to take Sanchez at 17 anyway, the only pick before us that could take "our guy" would be #18. Plus we'd get a "free" 4(20) & 7(8).

Trading with Minnesota drops us to #22 (but again, only puts 5 picks that we care about, not 6, between our original first-pick and our new first-pick). That would net more back in trade: 3(22) and 7(12); it would basically get us our Brett Favre 3rd-rounder back.

If the types of players we're looking are reaches at #17 and would still be there 2-6 slots later, I can't see them staying pat. We traded away 2 picks before the draft (3rd for Favre, 5th for Sheppard) & you know Tannenbaum wants at least one of them back.

This is the truly obvious decison. I mean someone like Crabtree or Stafford could fall to 17 and then you grab him. But if the draft goes as suggested, I see no choice other than trading down. Tanny is a known wheeler-dealer on draft day. Tampa needs a QB and Minnesota's QB is a one or two year stop gap. The draft will be interesting this year because there is really no obvious choice at 17 and the Jets have several needs on offense. And who will the BPA be at that point. If they are all defensive players, look for a trade down and recovering a draft pick or two, as well.

[Jetlag]

If they don't take Moreno there, I'll dig Tanny's eyeballs out with a spoon and then force feed them to him.

Thomas Jones has a year left of being a franchise back and Leon is an x-factor type, not a feature back. What would effectively happen is, in a year or 2 we will not only be asking "Who's going to be our QB?" but "Who's going to carry the rock 20 times a game?" It'd be nice to fill holes preemptively instead of waiting until it's a need. Crazy idea right??

[Jetlag]

BTW this idea of drafting a TE on the first day this year is the most absurd thing I've ever heard. Who in there right mind drafts a TE 2 years in a row in the first round? Especially if it seems the first one panned out. The type of TE we need can be found in a Harlem Alleyway, NOT in the first round of a draft where there could be some true talent available.

[Bachelors3]

BTW, this is off of Gil Brandt's Pro Day Blog:

Kansas State QB Freeman is a hot prospect

Posted: March 14th, 2009 | NFL.com Staff | Tags: Josh Freeman, Kansas State, New York Jets

A number of teams are showing significant interest in Kansas State QB Josh Freeman. He is the biggest quarterback in this year

[AdropOFvenom]

Try and trade down, but if not I'm taking Darrius Heyward-Bey and not thinking twice about it.

It's a high risk pick, but the potential rewards are outstanding and worth gambling on.

[slats]

BTW this idea of drafting a TE on the first day this year is the most absurd thing I've ever heard. Who in there right mind drafts a TE 2 years in a row in the first round? Especially if it seems the first one panned out. The type of TE we need can be found in a Harlem Alleyway, NOT in the first round of a draft where there could be some true talent available.

Right. Much wiser to draft your third string RB.

I'm no huge Thomas Jones fan, but I don't understand why people think he's going to fall off a cliff after this year. He's a pretty low mileage back who keeps himself in amazing physical condition.

[Ghost]

Knowshon Moreno is going to be a nasty F'ing player.

[will]

Blocking TE is a BS position. You don't want to telegraph your offense's intentions by which TE you send into the huddle. You want a complete TE who's both a solid blocker and a threat to catch the ball. That's how you create mismatches with the player.

We have inexperienced QB's who'll benefit from both the blocking ability and a large target to throw the ball to.

I think the Jets were foolish to let Chris Baker go, but now they need to fill that spot. They don't have to fill it with a first round pick, but if the value's there they shouldn't be afraid to pull the trigger.

This conversation spans all threads

I think Rex is a straight ahead kind of guy. One of those coaches who says "Here's my double TE set, now try to stop us." So, I think he will add a pure blocker, someone like Ryan or Becht. I just dont think TE will be a priority.

[Pragmatic Bus]

Knowshon Moreno is going to be a nasty F'ing player.

i agree but a lot of great RBs will be available in the 2nd even the third round. a big bruiser like shonn greene could really help us and he will be available in the 2nd round

OrWZwH9VVJU

[Pragmatic Bus]

well my mock is done for now. i'll make changes as the board changes between now and the draft

I'm just taking an initial stab at it. i'll refine it, edit it and change it as the draft process moves along and my board changes.

ROUND 1

1- DET- Aaron Curry LB Wake Forrest (I dont have staford that high on my board so Lions will be happy with a playmaker like curry)

2- STL - Jason Smith OT Baylor (For now this pick will do but Eugene Monroe is climbing up the boards fast)

3- KC - Eugene Monroe OT Virginia (They just got their franchise QB, now they need to protect his blind side)

4- SEA - BJ Raji DT B.C. (I was tempted to take an OT here but they desparately need some DL help, i might change my mind later)

5- CLE - Brian Orakpo DE/OLB TEXAS (Browns need a pass rusher badly)

6- CIN - Malcolm Jenkins CB OHIO STATE (i wouldn't be surprised if cinci reaches for Ray maleluga here, they desparately need LB help but if they are smart they will pick Jenkins)

7- OAK - Micheal Oher OT Missi (Knowing Al Davis he will pick Measurables over everything and micheal Oher who is 6-5 309 fits the mold)

8- JAX - Micheal Crabtree WR T.Tech (He is too much of a value to pass up)

9- GB - Everette Brown DE/OLB F.S.U. (GB wants to switch to 3-4 and Everette Brown can help)

10- SF - Matthew Stafford QB Georgia (I dont know if 49ers are brave enough to take another shot at drafting a franchise QB after the Alex smith Failiure but for now they get Matt)

11- BUF - Jeremy Macklin WR Missouri ( TO is a one year Deal and they need a WR for the future)

12- DEN - Tyson Jackson DE/DT L.S.U. (assuming that jay cutler and JM patch things up)

13- WAS - Brian Cushing OLB U.S.C. (Just a perfect fit here)

14- NO - Clay Matthews OLB U.S.C. (They just signed Vilma to secure the middle/ Clay will be an immediate starter next to vilma)

15- HOU - Vontae Davis CB Illinois (Vontae will come in and improve that Pass defense right away)

16- SD - Rey Maualuga ILB U.S.C. (BPA)

17- NYJ - Mark Sanchez QB U.S.C. (Knowshon sounds good here too but we have 2 probowl RBs but no QB. Kellen, Ratty and Erik could turn out great but there is a chance that we dont have a franchise QB on the roster and Mark sanchez can fill the void)

18- CHI - Peria Jerry DT Ole Miss (Great 4-3 DT, he will start right away next to Tommy Harris instantly upgrading the bears defense)

19- TB - James Laurinaitis LB Ohio State (Derrick brooks and cato june are gone and Laurinaitis is a bargain at this position)

20- DET(DAL) - Josh Freeman QB Kansas St (Freeman is rising up the charts, he went from a mid 2nd round pick to 20th overall, luck works in Det's favor for a change)

21- PHI - Andre Smith OT Alabama (Andy Ried loves the big uglys, and Donovan is injury prone, NFC east is filled with great pass rushers and Andre Smith is a beast)

22- MIN - Alex Mack C Cal. (Matt Birk is gone and Alex Mack is the Best center available, Adrian peterson will apreciate this pick)

23- NE - Brandon Pettigrew TE Oklahoma St (Ben Watson is a bust, NE needs LBers but belly wont pass on this monster)

24- ATL - Max Unger C Oregon (McClure is getting old but Ryan is a young QB, Max and Ryan can grow old together)

25- MIA - D.J. Moore CB Vandy (i like alphonso smith better but alphoso is only 5-8 and parcell likes big CBs)

26- BAL - Alphonso Smith CB Wake Forrest (Chris Mcalister is gone, Ivy left and now role is rolling out/ i have a feeling that ravens would be picking DBs early)

27- IND - Evander Hood DT Missouri (BPA)

28- PHI(CAR) - Kenny Britt WR Rutgers (Iggles will pick a WR here, i have Kenny Britt higher but Percy harvin, heyward and Hakeem Nicks are not far behind)

29- NYG - Hakeem Nicks WR NC (Plax is unreliable and toomer is getting old)

30- TEN - Darrius Heyward-Bey WR Maryland (Tennessee needs a down the field threat to stretch the field and Darrius is Fast)

31- ARI - Chris Wells RB Ohio State (Too Much Value here, they can pick percy harvin here too but wells can play)

32- PIT - Brian Robiskie WR Ohio State (The Most polished route runner in this Draft he is tall and Big Ben will love throwing to him)

[BroadwayJ667]

knowshon becasue he's quicker than Wells, and in his college career he's caught 60 plus passes, Wells has caught 15, a running back that can catch is essential.

Sanchez is too much of a risk, there are a few things Pete Carrol knows, if he thinks Sanchez isn't ready i'm inclined to believe him.

as far as Andre Smith, the guy produced in college, who cares if he can't do any of the junk needed at the combine or a pro day, when a lineman has to run 40 yards every play or bench weights on a football field, i'll care

[Mistalava]

Sanchez or Freeman. Then trade him plus pick(s) for Cutler. Best available WR in Rd. 2.

[StraightCash]

well my mock is done for now. i'll make changes as the board changes between now and the draft

No Harvin in the first round?...

[Jetlag]

Right. Much wiser to draft your third string RB.

I'm no huge Thomas Jones fan, but I don't understand why people think he's going to fall off a cliff after this year. He's a pretty low mileage back who keeps himself in amazing physical condition.

It's called drafting for value. That is what perennial playoff teams do. Moreno has the potential to be a Top 10 RB in this league. So we shouldn't draft him because we won't need him for one year? Aye yi yi. Thomas Jones is going to wear down, RB's have proven to grind down after 30. Hell look at Priest Holmes, he didn't carry the load until he was 27-28 and only went 4 seasons. Forward thinking is a good thing.

[Sperm Edwards]

It's called drafting for value. That is what perennial playoff teams do. Moreno has the potential to be a Top 10 RB in this league. So we shouldn't draft him because we won't need him for one year? Aye yi yi. Thomas Jones is going to wear down, RB's have proven to grind down after 30. Hell look at Priest Holmes, he didn't carry the load until he was 27-28 and only went 4 seasons. Forward thinking is a good thing.

So you're suggesting we draft someone in round 1 because he might be great when his initial contract is over?

First round RB's are supposed to pan out right away. You don't want them on their 2nd contract where they're eating up cap room into their 30's.

Top 10 RB's don't impress me. Most of them are top 10 because of the situation they're in rather than their own innate talent. A great example is Joseph Addai. First round pick. But when the OL blocking for him isn't so special anymore, then neither is he. You really think Addai has progressively become a worse football player since he was a rookie? Please. His situation was worse. Put him on the Vikings or Giants or Panthers and (provided he played the whole season) he'd have 1500+ yards no problem as an "every down" back & would miraculously be a top-10 RB again.

The one good thing about Thomas Jones' contract is that he's dirt-cheap in 2009 & then becomes a cap casualty in 2010.

Meaning this: use Jones in 2009. Use someone else in 2010.

And perennial playoff teams have more luxury than ones who aren't. The Steelers can draft a Mendenhall in round 1 because they were good enough to win a superbowl even if they (effectively) drafted no one there.

[Jetlag]

So you're suggesting we draft someone in round 1 because he might be great when his initial contract is over?

First round RB's are supposed to pan out right away. You don't want them on their 2nd contract where they're eating up cap room into their 30's.

Top 10 RB's don't impress me. Most of them are top 10 because of the situation they're in rather than their own innate talent. A great example is Joseph Addai. First round pick. But when the OL blocking for him isn't so special anymore, then neither is he. You really think Addai has progressively become a worse football player since he was a rookie? Please. His situation was worse. Put him on the Vikings or Giants or Panthers and (provided he played the whole season) he'd have 1500+ yards no problem as an "every down" back & would miraculously be a top-10 RB again.

The one good thing about Thomas Jones' contract is that he's dirt-cheap in 2009 & then becomes a cap casualty in 2010.

Meaning this: use Jones in 2009. Use someone else in 2010.

And perennial playoff teams have more luxury than ones who aren't. The Steelers can draft a Mendenhall in round 1 because they were good enough to win a superbowl even if they (effectively) drafted no one there.

Sperm, what the f***?!? How come you can't ever agree with me, god damn it?

Well Top 10 RB's might not impress you, but they sure as hell impress me. BTW, Joseph Addai blew last year. He was on my fantasy team so I made sure to watch him a lot. He played like he didn't even want the ball. He didn't fight through tackles, he didn't catch the ball well out of the backfield, and overall Dominic Rhodes looked better. Joseph Addai single-handedly lost me $360 and a FF Championship, he can go eat the biggest **** on the planet for all I care. Even when the Colts offense got back on track Addai was no where to be found and it showed. So I strongly disagree.

I'm not saying that Knowshon should be the Jets target. I'm saying if we're left with that crap, he is far and away the best talent available. I'm not buying the Nicks/DHB propaganda. Mark Sanchez should have stayed in school. Andre Smith looks like a world class dumbass right now. Percy Harvin is a Florida WR, with injury problems to boot. And Beanie Wells is not the playmaker that Moreno is. I really want Maclin, but it's clear that he won't be around. In fact I think the Jets are going to get stuck at 17. Overall this draft class is unimpressive.

[Pragmatic Bus]

No Harvin in the first round?...

sorry but for now harvin is out, unless steelers and philly think they can use another 5-11 wr

[Jetlag]

i agree but a lot of great RBs will be available in the 2nd even the third round. a big bruiser like shonn greene could really help us and he will be available in the 2nd round

OrWZwH9VVJU

He has a little LT in him. What are his weaknesses? I read he was only a 1 year starter, which doesn't really bother me. I wouldn't mind this kid in the 2nd.

[Pragmatic Bus]

He has a little LT in him. What are his weaknesses? I read he was only a 1 year starter, which doesn't really bother me. I wouldn't mind this kid in the 2nd.

he is a big bruiser with a lot of power and balance, he has deceptive speed but he wasn't featured as a pass receiver

[Sperm Edwards]

Sperm, what the f***?!? How come you can't ever agree with me, god damn it?

Well Top 10 RB's might not impress you, but they sure as hell impress me. BTW, Joseph Addai blew last year. He was on my fantasy team so I made sure to watch him a lot. He played like he didn't even want the ball. He didn't fight through tackles, he didn't catch the ball well out of the backfield, and overall Dominic Rhodes looked better. Joseph Addai single-handedly lost me $360 and a FF Championship, he can go eat the biggest **** on the planet for all I care. Even when the Colts offense got back on track Addai was no where to be found and it showed. So I strongly disagree.

I'm not saying that Knowshon should be the Jets target. I'm saying if we're left with that crap, he is far and away the best talent available. I'm not buying the Nicks/DHB propaganda. Mark Sanchez should have stayed in school. Andre Smith looks like a world class dumbass right now. Percy Harvin is a Florida WR, with injury problems to boot. And Beanie Wells is not the playmaker that Moreno is. I really want Maclin, but it's clear that he won't be around. In fact I think the Jets are going to get stuck at 17. Overall this draft class is unimpressive.

I will start agreeing with you when you make smarter posts.

So is it your impression that Addai was a worse football player this year than last year, and that he was a worse football player last year than he was as a rookie? Or did his line just make it look easier?

Was Priest Holmes really an all-time talent that went unnoticed by all the teams on draft day AND the team that picked him up as an UDFA (Baltimore)? And did the Chiefs also miss out on what a great talent he was for the entire off-season and first month of the season? Or did he just eventually get the opportunity to get all the carries behind an all-time OL?

Our OL is good enough to suffer through a season of Jones & Leon. We need a 1st round WR or CB or whatever this year a hell of a lot more than we need a 1st round RB. RB's who perform come out every year & can be found in almost every round & perform as rookies. Not so at all other positions, particularly like the two I mentioned, which typically take time to develop.

[Pragmatic Bus]

had to make a change

ROUND 1

1- DET- Aaron Curry LB Wake Forrest (I dont have staford that high on my board so Lions will be happy with a playmaker like curry)

2- STL - Jason Smith OT Baylor (For now this pick will do but Eugene Monroe is climbing up the boards fast)

3- KC - Eugene Monroe OT Virginia (They just got their franchise QB, now they need to protect his blind side)

4- SEA - BJ Raji DT B.C. (I was tempted to take an OT here but they desparately need some DL help, i might change my mind later)

5- CLE - Brian Orakpo DE/OLB TEXAS (Browns need a pass rusher badly)

6- CIN - Malcolm Jenkins CB OHIO STATE (i wouldn't be surprised if cinci reaches for Ray maleluga here, they desparately need LB help but if they are smart they will pick Jenkins)

7- OAK - Micheal Oher OT Missi (Knowing Al Davis he will pick Measurables over everything and micheal Oher who is 6-5 309 fits the mold)

8- JAX - Micheal Crabtree WR T.Tech (He is too much of a value to pass up)

9- GB - Everette Brown DE/OLB F.S.U. (GB wants to switch to 3-4 and Everette Brown can help)

10- SF - Matthew Stafford QB Georgia (I dont know if 49ers are brave enough to take another shot at drafting a franchise QB after the Alex smith Failiure but for now they get Matt)

11- BUF - Jeremy Macklin WR Missouri ( TO is a one year Deal and they need a WR for the future)

12- DEN - Tyson Jackson DE/DT L.S.U. (assuming that jay cutler and JM patch things up)

13- WAS - Brian Cushing OLB U.S.C. (Just a perfect fit here)

14- NO - Clay Matthews OLB U.S.C. (They just signed Vilma to secure the middle/ Clay will be an immediate starter next to vilma)

15- HOU - Vontae Davis CB Illinois (Vontae will come in and improve that Pass defense right away)

16- SD - Rey Maualuga ILB U.S.C. (BPA)

17- NYJ - Mark Sanchez QB U.S.C. (Knowshon sounds good here too but we have 2 probowl RBs but no QB. Kellen, Ratty and Erik could turn out great but there is a chance that we dont have a franchise QB on the roster and Mark sanchez can fill the void)

18- CHI - Peria Jerry DT Ole Miss (Great 4-3 DT, he will start right away next to Tommy Harris instantly upgrading the bears defense)

19- TB - Knowshon Moreno RB Georgia (they can pick josh freeman too but they can't pass up on a talent like moreno)

20- DET(DAL) - Josh Freeman QB Kansas St (Freeman is rising up the charts, he went from a mid 2nd round pick to 20th overall, luck works in Det's favor for a change)

21- PHI - Andre Smith OT Alabama (Andy Ried loves the big uglys, and Donovan is injury prone, NFC east is filled with great pass rushers and Andre Smith is a beast)

22- MIN - Alex Mack C Cal. (Matt Birk is gone and Alex Mack is the Best center available, Adrian peterson will apreciate this pick)

23- NE - Brandon Pettigrew TE Oklahoma St (Ben Watson is a bust, NE needs LBers but belly wont pass on this monster)

24- ATL - Max Unger C Oregon (McClure is getting old but Ryan is a young QB, Max and Ryan can grow old together)

25- MIA - D.J. Moore CB Vandy (i like alphonso smith better but alphoso is only 5-8 and parcell likes big CBs)

26- BAL - Alphonso Smith CB Wake Forrest (Chris Mcalister is gone, Ivy left and now role is rolling out/ i have a feeling that ravens would be picking DBs early)

27- IND - Evander Hood DT Missouri (BPA)

28- PHI(CAR) - Kenny Britt WR Rutgers (Iggles will pick a WR here, i have Kenny Britt higher but Percy harvin, heyward and Hakeem Nicks are not far behind)

29- NYG - Hakeem Nicks WR NC (Plax is unreliable and toomer is getting old)

30- TEN - Darrius Heyward-Bey WR Maryland (Tennessee needs a down the field threat to stretch the field and Darrius is Fast)

31- ARI - Chris Wells RB Ohio State (Too Much Value here, they can pick percy harvin here too but wells can play)

32- PIT - Brian Robiskie WR Ohio State (The Most polished route runner in this Draft he is tall and Big Ben will love throwing to him)

[lancemehl]

the Draft went like this

Nicks or PercyHarvin from FL or Heyward-Bey or Britt pick one, but it wouldn't go like that. I don't think Buf takes a WR among other things.

Taking Sanchez is not smart IMO.

WR or RB, simple.TJ isn't getting younger and last year was his best ever.He can easily give us 800 yards next year,no offense, T, but look at his stat sheet.

[Jetlag]

I will start agreeing with you when you make smarter posts.

So is it your impression that Addai was a worse football player this year than last year, and that he was a worse football player last year than he was as a rookie? Or did his line just make it look easier?

Was Priest Holmes really an all-time talent that went unnoticed by all the teams on draft day AND the team that picked him up as an UDFA (Baltimore)? And did the Chiefs also miss out on what a great talent he was for the entire off-season and first month of the season? Or did he just eventually get the opportunity to get all the carries behind an all-time OL?

Our OL is good enough to suffer through a season of Jones & Leon. We need a 1st round WR or CB or whatever this year a hell of a lot more than we need a 1st round RB. RB's who perform come out every year & can be found in almost every round & perform as rookies. Not so at all other positions, particularly like the two I mentioned, which typically take time to develop.

Joseph Addai, was a bum last year and it showed. He was the equivalent of Robinson Cano, a guy with all-world talent, would walk up to the plate take his hacks and then go right back to the dugout without giving a crap. He was a complete bum, plus he had an injury which didn't help. I get your point about O-lines and yes clearly they make RB's better, I would never argue against that but Addai is not a good example.

My point is this, I don't view any value being there at 17 for WR or CB. To me Moreno would far and away be the BAP. I actually agree with your premise, but if there's a RB who IMO is much more talented than whatever else is available, then there's no shame in taking the RB. Especially if RB is a position that we're going to need in a year.

[Sperm Edwards]

Joseph Addai, was a bum last year and it showed. He was the equivalent of Robinson Cano, a guy with all-world talent, would walk up to the plate take his hacks and then go right back to the dugout without giving a crap. He was a complete bum, plus he had an injury which didn't help. I get your point about O-lines and yes clearly they make RB's better, I would never argue against that but Addai is not a good example.

My point is this, I don't view any value being there at 17 for WR or CB. To me Moreno would far and away be the BAP. I actually agree with your premise, but if there's a RB who IMO is much more talented than whatever else is available, then there's no shame in taking the RB. Especially if RB is a position that we're going to need in a year.

I never said there was "shame" in taking a RB.

And Addai is a GREAT example. Most people were sucking off his knob after his rookie season where he was getting 5 ypc. He was a 3rd round draft pick who had a good combine to vault up to a 2nd round prospect & then Indy took him in round 1. But there was still the cooing about what a shrewd pick he was because of how much easier his job was behind a good OL and Rhodes taking the first half dozen runs or so.

Priest Holmes = nothing special on Baltimore. Goes to KC and for a time becomes one of the most productive RB's in NFL history.

Clinton Portis 1500 yds & 15 TD's & 5.5ypc in 12-13 starts per season with Denver. Leaves there for Washington & averages almost a full yard & a half less on every touch & gets into the endzone half as often.

Did Edgerrin James hit the wall a month after his 28th birthday? Or did he just go from Indy's OL to Arizona's?

There are lots of names I could throw out there:

Dominic Rhodes

Mike Anderson

Olandis Gary

Rudi Johnson

Derrick Ward

Pierre Thomas

Chester Taylor

Mewelde Moore

Earnest Graham

Ryan Grant

Willie Parker

Bunch of nobodies that are/were downright dangerous at times in the right situation. I'm sure I can effortlessly make an even bigger list of major talents who looked like garbage in bad team situations.

Hell, look at the difference in Thomas Jones from '07 to '08. You're not going to get a much better example than that.

[Jetlag]

I never said there was "shame" in taking a RB.

And Addai is a GREAT example. Most people were sucking off his knob after his rookie season where he was getting 5 ypc. He was a 3rd round draft pick who had a good combine to vault up to a 2nd round prospect & then Indy took him in round 1. But there was still the cooing about what a shrewd pick he was because of how much easier his job was behind a good OL and Rhodes taking the first half dozen runs or so.

Priest Holmes = nothing special on Baltimore. Goes to KC and for a time becomes one of the most productive RB's in NFL history.

Clinton Portis 1500 yds & 15 TD's & 5.5ypc in 12-13 starts per season with Denver. Leaves there for Washington & averages almost a full yard & a half less on every touch & gets into the endzone half as often.

Did Edgerrin James hit the wall a month after his 28th birthday? Or did he just go from Indy's OL to Arizona's?

There are lots of names I could throw out there:

Dominic Rhodes

Mike Anderson

Olandis Gary

Rudi Johnson

Derrick Ward

Pierre Thomas

Chester Taylor

Mewelde Moore

Earnest Graham

Ryan Grant

Willie Parker

Bunch of nobodies that are/were downright dangerous at times in the right situation. I'm sure I can effortlessly make an even bigger list of major talents who looked like garbage in bad team situations.

Hell, look at the difference in Thomas Jones from '07 to '08. You're not going to get a much better example than that.

I'm not really sure who you're arguing with.

My point always was that I don't see better value at 17 with that draft than Moreno. That's it. I watched Joseph Addai play last year and Dominic Rhodes with the same O-line actually looked like a RB who was willing to get yards. Joseph Addai looked like he couldn't care less.

[slats]

I'm not really sure who you're arguing with.

My point always was that I don't see better value at 17 with that draft than Moreno. That's it. I watched Joseph Addai play last year and Dominic Rhodes with the same O-line actually looked like a RB who was willing to get yards. Joseph Addai looked like he couldn't care less.

My interpretation would be that he's telling you that OL's make the RB. The team around him makes him. That's why for a while anyone who suited up in the backfield in Denver looked like a superstar, why Rhodes and Addai are interchangeable...

Or why first round RB's in general are not a great value. They're less of a value when you spend a number one on them, pay 'em that first round pick bonus, then have them be the third back off the bench. When it's time to get another back, there will be quality backs available throughout the draft in 2010. In the meantime, every other position on the offense is probably more important to the Jets running game.

And I still don't get this concept that Jones is toast waiting to be burned. Yeah, he's 30. I got the memo on RB's, but it's not automatic that the guy's done at that age. He didn't see a lot of action in his first few years in the league, and keeps himself in impeccable shape. Some RB's last beyond 30, and he would seem to fit the mold that does. Cut into his workload a little more with Leon, and he probably has a couple serviceable years left. They can make a decision on his contract year - he probably knows that, too. Think he wants to keep earning?