Would you make this trade if you were Mike Tannenbaum?

[Barton]

Unless your business is dependent on selling Kerry Rhodes Jets jerseys and thats how you pay the bills, where's your head at right now in turning down this deal? Really, I want to f'ing know.

[#27TheDominator]

We still have major holes at QB, WR, TE, OT, OG, DE, backup NT, CB2, and SS. Forfeiting multiple draft picks in our situation is beyond stupid.

Faneca is fading fast. Woody is above average as is BMoore. Our Oline is patchwork and can hold together another year MAYBE 2, but we need top talent there if we are going to be a run dominant unit. WR is what it is, we have a very good possession guy in Cotch, who is capable of making plays with his feet but won't burn you. We lack an explosive every down threat opposite him. TE we have a glorified WR as it stands now. Maybe he progresses as a blocker, but if the game plan is to dominate TOP with a great ground attack, we need a dominant blocker there NOW. DE Ellis is about to break the bank and needs to be either renegotiated down or cut next year. Jenks can't man the NT spot every down for a full season. An suitable backup is needed immediately as well. Lito is regressed until proven differently. Leonard is not a true starter.

Even if we can address half of these problem areas this season, it will take a full draft to do it. Or we can trade all of our highest picks to Denver and hope that we hit with 100% accuracy on all our need picks in the 5th 6th and 7th rounds.

Cutler would be a final piece if this team was in a position to be sustainable long term. It's not. Dline and Oline need to be upgraded with younger franchis caliber players immediately. 1st, 2nd and 3rd rounds of the upcoming drafts should help us. Oh yeah and we still need playmakers cause we have Leon and thats it.

OH MY GOD!!! WE HAVE A "MAJOR HOLE" AT BACKUP NT!!!!!!! Don't trade for a pro bowl QB!!!! We need a backup NT!!!!!

If you don't like Cutler I can understand that. I think he might have a case of the crazies myself, but saying that you shouldn't trade multiple picks for a very good, very young QB is insane. You can dispute Cutler being that man, but you cannot possibly believe that an excellent young QB isn't worth a starting safety and a pick or the chance to draft backups. It is likely that even a first rounder isn't going to crack the Jets starting lineup at any position other than WR. Unless of course they draft a QB and go into the season with Ratliff and Clemens as the top two options.

You are worried about Woody, Faneca and Jenkins not having time left. That's why you make this move. The window isn't that big and there is a good chance it will never be big enough to heave Clemens/Ratliff out.

WTF do you call a "franchise caliber" player? Franchise = Marino, Elway, Campbell or Brady. Not Kerry Rhodes, Matthias Kiwanuka or Chris Snee.

In other words, Cutler + this defense as is can be great.

But Cutler + the defense without Rhodes or Revis will not be great.

The Jets would be closer to the Bengals than the Steelers. So what's the point? The Jets will have a franchise QB and a defense that can't get it done.

Rex Ryan & Tanny's main order of business was fixing the secondary after they got Scott. Seriously. In 2 successive moves the Jets signed Leonhard & Lito. The secondary is set, but now people what to screw it up.

The Jets D without Kerry Rhodes will become the Bengals? WTF? I thought our blitzing coach was so smart.

This is almost as ridiculous as when Brandon Moore became that irreplaceable piece of our offensive juggernaut.

[JustInFudge]

This is just silly.

[Cuff_Up]

For all you Cutler doubters read this.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80f4df92&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

After reading this I will accept all apologies.

Thank You,

Cuff_Up

[JustInFudge]

For all you Cutler doubters read this.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80f4df92&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

After reading this I will accept all apologies.

Thank You,

Cuff_Up

Thats really special for a sub .500 Qb.

[NFLs StepChild]

Huh?

How can you possible say the Jets have "major" holes at OT, CB2 and SS? The Jets just signed Leonhard and traded for Lito (giving him a new deal). The Jets are not drafting for those positions. Plus, the Jets have Woody for a multi-year deal and he was good at RT.

Please explain.

Lets be honest here and take off the green colored glasses.

For OT. Woody is a decent plug in guy - he's been doing admirably and is a solid run blocker, but he's just a guy, he was a upgrade over Clement but that's not a high bar to set. He's a good guy for a strong rotation, can play RG, RT but he needs to be upgraded with a younger cheaper better option with long term potential. After this year Woody's contract is below average and trends towards backup dollars by 2011.

Woody: Signed a five-year, $25.5 million contract. The deal contains $11 million guaranteed, including a $2.55 million signing bonus and $400,000 in annual workout/weight clauses. 2009: $5.6 million, 2010: $3.75 million, 2011: $3.35 million, 2012: $3.1 million, 2013: Free Agent

Lito has been falling out of favor for a while and lost his job to Brown last year. He is not the high impact guy he once was. Injuries have also been a factor with this guy. We got him on the cheap and it was a good move, but a lock to be an effective starting CB he's not.

SS Leonard? Good guy, provides depth and familiarity to the defensive schemes. But if he were truly a great option at SS the Bills and Ravens would not have let him go. He's more valuable for his knowledge than his play. He perfomed admirably in spot duty for the Ravens, but he's no starter.

All this talk of elite defense is premature. Harris and Scott are a good ILB tandem. Pace still can't cover anyone and Gholston is an unknown and BT is a contract year performer who has admitted laziness and por work ethic. We have Revis and Rhodes in the secondary and a bunch of average talent. Ellis and Coleman are good solid players but not near the caliber of other impact performers at the 3-4 DE spots around the league. Jenks is a beast but can't hold up all season long.

[SMC]

The Jets D without Kerry Rhodes will become the Bengals? WTF? I thought our blitzing coach was so smart.

This is almost as ridiculous as when Brandon Moore became that irreplaceable piece of our offensive juggernaut.

With a crappy secondary, the Jets better hope Rex's blitzes work. Unfortunately, Rex has said the key to the blitzes is having a strong secondary (the very reason the Jets signed Leonhard & traded for Lito).

When are people going to actually listen to Rex when he speaks? Seriously. This is not a secret. He's spelled it out on numerous occassions. The Jets fixed the secondary so Rex's blitzes will be successful.

[Cuff_Up]

Thats really special for a sub .500 Qb.

](*,)I think your the only thing here that is special.

[neckdemon]

Let's say Kerry Rhodes' trade value is a 1st and another conditional pick. We would be essentially giving up 3 VERY valuable draft picks (or a franchise safety and a 1st round pick) for Jay Cutler. I vote no.

let's be realistic and say kerry rhodes' trade value is a 3rd round pick at best.

[SMC]

Lets be honest here and take off the green colored glasses.

For OT. Woody is a decent plug in guy - he's been doing admirably and is a solid run blocker, but he's just a guy, he was a upgrade over Clement but that's not a high bar to set. He's a good guy for a strong rotation, can play RG, RT but he needs to be upgraded with a younger cheaper better option with long term potential. After this year Woody's contract is below average and trends towards backup dollars by 2011.

Woody: Signed a five-year, $25.5 million contract. The deal contains $11 million guaranteed, including a $2.55 million signing bonus and $400,000 in annual workout/weight clauses. 2009: $5.6 million, 2010: $3.75 million, 2011: $3.35 million, 2012: $3.1 million, 2013: Free Agent

Lito has been falling out of favor for a while and lost his job to Brown last year. He is not the high impact guy he once was. Injuries have also been a factor with this guy. We got him on the cheap and it was a good move, but a lock to be an effective starting CB he's not.

SS Leonard? Good guy, provides depth and familiarity to the defensive schemes. But if he were truly a great option at SS the Bills and Ravens would not have let him go. He's more valuable for his knowledge than his play. He perfomed admirably in spot duty for the Ravens, but he's no starter.

You need to talk to Mike Tannenbaum and Rex Ryan then, because they disagree with you on every point.

They made no effort to replace Woody.

They signed Leonhard to be the starter at SS.

They traded for Lito for him to be the CB2.

[neckdemon]

In other words, Cutler + this defense as is can be great.

But Cutler + the defense without Rhodes or Revis will not be great.

The Jets would be closer to the Bengals than the Steelers. So what's the point? The Jets will have a franchise QB and a defense that can't get it done.

Rex Ryan & Tanny's main order of business was fixing the secondary after they got Scott. Seriously. In 2 successive moves the Jets signed Leonhard & Lito. The secondary is set, but now people what to screw it up.

if our defense wolud fall apart if we didn't have kerry rhodes......well then it's not gonna be a very good defense then is it? no way in hell does kerry fu*king rhodes make or break this defense.

[DoubleDown]

With a crappy secondary, the Jets better hope Rex's blitzes work.

I'm sorry, but I just don't see how a secondary with Revis, Sheppard, Leonhard, and Elam can be considered "crappy."

Downgraded? Of course. But we are picking up a young franchise QB in the process.

[SMC]

I'm sorry, but I just don't see how a secondary with Revis, Sheppard, Leonhard, and Elam can be considered "crappy."

Downgraded? Of course. But we are picking up a young franchise QB in the process.

Because Elam is a backup and his backup shouldn't be in the NFL? Leonhard is a complimentary S with no one to compliment without Rhodes.

Hence, crappy. The Jets just went from having their secondary be a strength to a weakness.

Teams don't improve that way.

This is what boggles the mind here. Every other team which is rumored to be in the Cutler mix are not trading any starters from other positions.

But, somehow, the Jets should give up a starter on defense. Makes no sense.

[JustInFudge]

](*,)I think your the only thing here that is special.

Thank you.

[NFLs StepChild]

OH MY GOD!!! WE HAVE A "MAJOR HOLE" AT BACKUP NT!!!!!!! Don't trade for a pro bowl QB!!!! We need a backup NT!!!!!

If you don't like Cutler I can understand that. I think he might have a case of the crazies myself, but saying that you shouldn't trade multiple picks for a very good, very young QB is insane. You can dispute Cutler being that man, but you cannot possibly believe that an excellent young QB isn't worth a starting safety and a pick or the chance to draft backups. It is likely that even a first rounder isn't going to crack the Jets starting lineup at any position other than WR. Unless of course they draft a QB and go into the season with Ratliff and Clemens as the top two options.

You are worried about Woody, Faneca and Jenkins not having time left. That's why you make this move. The window isn't that big and there is a good chance it will never be big enough to heave Clemens/Ratliff out.

WTF do you call a "franchise caliber" player? Franchise = Marino, Elway, Campbell or Brady. Not Kerry Rhodes, Matthias Kiwanuka or Chris Snee.

The Jets D without Kerry Rhodes will become the Bengals? WTF? I thought our blitzing coach was so smart.

This is almost as ridiculous as when Brandon Moore became that irreplaceable piece of our offensive juggernaut.

If you don't see the need for a capable rotational guy for Jenks you need to go back and watch the difference between this defense with him and without him. Jenks IS the defense at this point. Not having an impactful guy at NT in the 3-4 (maybe 2 guys in the whole draft at that position this year which is the average.) will KILL your defense. Jenks is a monster but he has problems staying healthy and at his size and age you'd be stupid to play him every snap. Where do you get one of those guys? 1st and 2nd rounds seem to be the answer this year with Raji and Brace. Next year Cody will likely be gone top of draft and then maybe we will see LSU's Al Woods or Wake's Robinson in the 2nd or 3rd. Early to project but those are the only big bodied true NTs I can see coming out. And with all the new 3-4 teams coming out, NT will be a huge priority next year when these newcomers see how badly a legitimate one is needed. So yeah spending a 2nd or 3rd on backup NT for a defense predicated almost entirely on that lynchpin type of position is needed. But we won't have those picks available if we were to give up this years 1 and next years 2 and 3. Or whatever the rumor is now.

And just because I don't want to overpay for Cutler doesn't mean I dont want him. The physical skills he offers makes me drool. But he needs to be kept in check and on a leash. Offering up a 1st rounder for him hurts that power balance equation. Offering 2 kills it. Getting him for less doesn't attach this coaching staffs success entirely on a guy I think is a 50/50 shot at failing based entirely on his mental makeup.

If I were the GM I would definitely be worried about Faneca, Jenks and Woody not having time left so I look to make adjustments and get in talent to replace them and continue building this team up the right way for the long haul. Not hope and pray they last for long enough to get a new QB up to speed in a new system with no playmakers to throw to, find a way to then aquire those playmakers and have them develop and become inpactful (3 years is the rule of thumb for WRs remember) just so maybe at that point Faneca and woody are on their last legs, Jenks is healthy and strong enough to go a full season, and we have a 1 shot window to make a legitimate run at a SB for that year before the team falls apart and we need to rebuild.

Nope I look to use the draft to get 2 elite lines in place by throwing top talent at them and develop young players the right way and make this team is sustainable and strong for years to come. Keep taking shots at QB through the draft and actually play them to see if they are any good, and stop hiring every veteran castoff like a Garcia or whoever. When you find your guy the rest of the team is established and you are ready to make a real run for several years. The last thing I do is keep burning draft picks to go get other peoples players and overspending in FA. All that does is keep up the need to bring in new peices cause the old ones are too expensive. Keep drafting, keep developing and then be selective and spend at critical spots in FA. The fact that we had to go and overpay by a mile for Faneca and Woody just to get them here is a huge failure on the Jets part. Ignoring your lines and failing to bring in good young players via the draft is a recipe for failure every time. Just like changing schemes and coaches every couple years.

[SMC]

NFLs StepChild, I definately agree with you that NT depth is a priority.

But your other points on Woody, Lito & Leonhard are groundless because they are entrenched starters for 2009.

You may think they need to be replaced, but Tanny & Rex don't.

[#27TheDominator]

Lets be honest here and take off the green colored glasses.

For OT. Woody is a decent plug in guy - he's been doing admirably and is a solid run blocker, but he's just a guy, he was a upgrade over Clement but that's not a high bar to set. He's a good guy for a strong rotation, can play RG, RT but he needs to be upgraded with a younger cheaper better option with long term potential. After this year Woody's contract is below average and trends towards backup dollars by 2011.

Woody: Signed a five-year, $25.5 million contract. The deal contains $11 million guaranteed, including a $2.55 million signing bonus and $400,000 in annual workout/weight clauses. 2009: $5.6 million, 2010: $3.75 million, 2011: $3.35 million, 2012: $3.1 million, 2013: Free Agent

Lito has been falling out of favor for a while and lost his job to Brown last year. He is not the high impact guy he once was. Injuries have also been a factor with this guy. We got him on the cheap and it was a good move, but a lock to be an effective starting CB he's not.

SS Leonard? Good guy, provides depth and familiarity to the defensive schemes. But if he were truly a great option at SS the Bills and Ravens would not have let him go. He's more valuable for his knowledge than his play. He perfomed admirably in spot duty for the Ravens, but he's no starter.

All this talk of elite defense is premature. Harris and Scott are a good ILB tandem. Pace still can't cover anyone and Gholston is an unknown and BT is a contract year performer who has admitted laziness and por work ethic. We have Revis and Rhodes in the secondary and a bunch of average talent. Ellis and Coleman are good solid players but not near the caliber of other impact performers at the 3-4 DE spots around the league. Jenks is a beast but can't hold up all season long.

I actually agree with most of this. You homers see an "elite D", I see a good D that can hopefully grow into something. OTOH, so what? That D was good enough that they were well in line for a playoff spot when Favre **** the bed. The only players the team has lost are Coles and Favre. IMO Cutler to Cotchery & Clowney/Smith + Elam/Smith and Leonhard at S is considerably better than Ratliff/Favre to Nicks/Harvin & Cotchery + Leonhard and Rhodes at S. The only way I don't make this deal is if I think the guy is nutty, will be bad for the lockerroom and/or will constantly be looking for new contracts.

With a crappy secondary, the Jets better hope Rex's blitzes work. Unfortunately, Rex has said the key to the blitzes is having a strong secondary (the very reason the Jets signed Leonhard & traded for Lito).

When are people going to actually listen to Rex when he speaks? Seriously. This is not a secret. He's spelled it out on numerous occassions. The Jets fixed the secondary so Rex's blitzes will be successful.

Since when did Kerry Rhodes become the difference between having a dominating defense and "a crappy secondary"? They can play the 3 safeties they have now and be fine. Revis, Shepherd, Leonhard and Smith/Elam is probably an improvement over last year. If not, they can pay Samari Rolle or a FA S and not lose much. I like Rhodes, but S is probably one of the positions of least impact on the field.

PS: Rex is a coach. He is not informing you of his complete plan for the franchise with every stupid press conference and sound bite. I'll start listening to coaches when they stop being full of ****.

[NFLs StepChild]

You need to talk to Mike Tannenbaum and Rex Ryan then, because they disagree with you on every point.

They made no effort to replace Woody.

They signed Leonhard to be the starter at SS.

They traded for Lito for him to be the CB2.

3/3/2009: Signed a three-year, $5.875 million contract. The deal included a $1 million signing bonus. 2009-2011: Under Contract

That's not a starters contract imo. He may start, but if they thought he was a real option long term, he'd have a better deal than that. If he proves himself they can renegotiate, but dollars tell me he's considered a backup for someone to be named later.

[#27TheDominator]

If you don't see the need for a capable rotational guy for Jenks you need to go back and watch the difference between this defense with him and without him. Jenks IS the defense at this point. Not having an impactful guy at NT in the 3-4 (maybe 2 guys in the whole draft at that position this year which is the average.) will KILL your defense. Jenks is a monster but he has problems staying healthy and at his size and age you'd be stupid to play him every snap. Where do you get one of those guys? 1st and 2nd rounds seem to be the answer this year with Raji and Brace. Next year Cody will likely be gone top of draft and then maybe we will see LSU's Al Woods or Wake's Robinson in the 2nd or 3rd. Early to project but those are the only big bodied true NTs I can see coming out. And with all the new 3-4 teams coming out, NT will be a huge priority next year when these newcomers see how badly a legitimate one is needed. So yeah spending a 2nd or 3rd on backup NT for a defense predicated almost entirely on that lynchpin type of position is needed. But we won't have those picks available if we were to give up this years 1 and next years 2 and 3. Or whatever the rumor is now.

And just because I don't want to overpay for Cutler doesn't mean I dont want him. The physical skills he offers makes me drool. But he needs to be kept in check and on a leash. Offering up a 1st rounder for him hurts that power balance equation. Offering 2 kills it. Getting him for less doesn't attach this coaching staffs success entirely on a guy I think is a 50/50 shot at failing based entirely on his mental makeup.

If I were the GM I would definitely be worried about Faneca, Jenks and Woody not having time left so I look to make adjustments and get in talent to replace them and continue building this team up the right way for the long haul. Not hope and pray they last for long enough to get a new QB up to speed in a new system with no playmakers to throw to, find a way to then aquire those playmakers and have them develop and become inpactful (3 years is the rule of thumb for WRs remember) just so maybe at that point Faneca and woody are on their last legs, Jenks is healthy and strong enough to go a full season, and we have a 1 shot window to make a legitimate run at a SB for that year before the team falls apart and we need to rebuild.

Nope I look to use the draft to get 2 elite lines in place by throwing top talent at them and develop young players the right way and make this team is sustainable and strong for years to come. Keep taking shots at QB through the draft and actually play them to see if they are any good, and stop hiring every veteran castoff like a Garcia or whoever. When you find your guy the rest of the team is established and you are ready to make a real run for several years. The last thing I do is keep burning draft picks to go get other peoples players and overspending in FA. All that does is keep up the need to bring in new peices cause the old ones are too expensive. Keep drafting, keep developing and then be selective and spend at critical spots in FA. The fact that we had to go and overpay by a mile for Faneca and Woody just to get them here is a huge failure on the Jets part. Ignoring your lines and failing to bring in good young players via the draft is a recipe for failure every time. Just like changing schemes and coaches every couple years.

There are eight ****ing threads of you making the same point. Respond to this thread, not the others. The deal (for purposes of this thread) is Rhodes and #17 for Cutler. Do you make it or not? Don't tell me that will be "impactful" on getting a decent backup NT because there is almost no way on God's green earth they are picking a backup NT at #17. Rotational help along the D line is important, but compared to having a good to great QB it is a pimple on an elephant's ass.

[afosomf]

There are eight ****ing threads of you making the same point. Respond to this thread, not the others. The deal (for purposes of this thread) is Rhodes and #17 for Cutler. Do you make it or not? Don't tell me that will be "impactful" on getting a decent backup NT because there is almost no way on God's green earth they are picking a backup NT at #17. Rotational help along the D line is important, but compared to having a good to great QB it is a pimple on an elephant's ass.

i am starting to believe that many here would not trade rhodes straight

up for cutler!!!

[NFLs StepChild]

NFLs StepChild, I definately agree with you that NT depth is a priority.

But your other points on Woody, Lito & Leonhard are groundless because they are entrenched starters for 2009.

You may think they need to be replaced, but Tanny & Rex don't.

They may very well be the starters for this year. But I also think the JEts are trying to go into the draft with no glaring needs. Lito for a 5th and then conditional pick based on PT (85% - thanks for the lesson Shannahan) is a good move. And the extension for 4 yrs for 27 million, Lito gets nothing guaranteed until next year with a 10 mill roster bonus. This deal is a basically 1 year tryout to see if he can return to form.

http://www.thejetsblog.com/2009/03/03/the-lito-sheppard-trade-a-work-of-art/

WoodyI agree, and I think he deserves to have the starting gig locked up for this year. He was very effective last season. But he's getting on and to be honest we can do better for cheaper. I think most would agree there. It's not a priority right now, but why should you let your lines wait until they become a priority to make them better?

[DoubleDown]

This is what boggles the mind here. Every other team which is rumored to be in the Cutler mix are not trading any starters from other positions.

But, somehow, the Jets should give up a starter on defense. Makes no sense.

I don't think we should give up a starter either. Just saying that I would do it if that's what it came down to.

I just don't see the logic in passing up on a young franchise QB because of a safety. It's a sacrifice I'd be willing to make.

[SMC]

3/3/2009: Signed a three-year, $5.875 million contract. The deal included a $1 million signing bonus. 2009-2011: Under Contract

That's not a starters contract imo. He may start, but if they thought he was a real option long term, he'd have a better deal than that. If he proves himself they can renegotiate, but dollars tell me he's considered a backup for someone to be named later.

That's ridiculous. The dollars don't tell you anything because Leonhard has said he was offered more by Denver (to be the starter) but turned it down because he wanted to play for Rex.

Who cares whether you think he's a starter since both Rex & Tanny surely thinks he is? That's the point. You may think it's a hole, but they don't.

[#27TheDominator]

i am starting to believe that many here would not trade rhodes straight

up for cutler!!!

Brandon Moore either.

[CobraVerde]

Cutler blows goats.

[NFLs StepChild]

There are eight ****ing threads of you making the same point. Respond to this thread, not the others. The deal (for purposes of this thread) is Rhodes and #17 for Cutler. Do you make it or not? Don't tell me that will be "impactful" on getting a decent backup NT because there is almost no way on God's green earth they are picking a backup NT at #17. Rotational help along the D line is important, but compared to having a good to great QB it is a pimple on an elephant's ass.

I already voted no and said no. And you are just being an provocative ass. Where did I say use the 17 pick on a backup NT? If you want to revise what I have said to try and make your points valid, try not using extreme reaches, try to at least be credible in your fabrications.

Yes QB> backup NT. But that was never in question. You are just trying to make it seem that way.

[NFLs StepChild]

That's ridiculous. The dollars don't tell you anything because Leonhard has said he was offered more by Denver (to be the starter) but turned it down because he wanted to play for Rex.

Who cares whether you think he's a starter since both Rex & Tanny surely thinks he is? That's the point. You may think it's a hole, but they don't.

That's fair, and we are ALL specualting here all the time.

I think he'll have every chance to win the starters job. And I'm sure Rex would be comfortable enough having him there. But he's upgradable and his contract does not prohibit that. In the NFL numbers game, that's never good news. Dollars always = respect and job security in the NFL.

I'd expect that the Jets will look to bring in a SS via the draft.

[Iceman88]

For all you Cutler doubters read this.

http://www.nfl.com/news/story?id=09000d5d80f4df92&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true

After reading this I will accept all apologies.

Thank You,

Cuff_Up

That doesn't change the fact that Cutler is as mature as Ryan Leaf. If Cutler is crying this much about almost being traded in Denver there is no chance he succeeds in NY. The media here will absolutely eat him alive, and the first time he gives an interview after a multi-pick game and doesn't seem to care much (he's done it before) the fans will all turn on him too. Bringing Cutler to NY would be the worst decision ever.

[#27TheDominator]

If you don't see the need for a capable rotational guy for Jenks ...Where do you get one of those guys? 1st and 2nd rounds seem to be the answer this year with Raji and Brace. Next year Cody will likely be gone top of draft and then maybe we will see LSU's Al Woods or Wake's Robinson in the 2nd or 3rd. <snip>But we won't have those picks available if we were to give up this years 1 and next years 2 and 3. Or whatever the rumor is now.

And just because I don't want to overpay for Cutler doesn't mean I dont want him. The physical skills he offers makes me drool. But he needs to be kept in check and on a leash. Offering up a 1st rounder for him hurts that power balance equation. Offering 2 kills it. Getting him for less doesn't attach this coaching staffs success entirely on a guy I think is a 50/50 shot at failing based entirely on his mental makeup.

These are the points I'm talking about. If we want a Nose better than Pouha we're probably going to have to use our 1st. You also make several comments about other picks being thrown in which really aren't relevant to the current (Kerry Rhodes equals Ronnie Lott + Jack Tatum all rolled into one) discussion.

I already voted no and said no. And you are just being an provocative ass. Where did I say use the 17 pick on a backup NT? If you want to revise what I have said to try and make your points valid, try not using extreme reaches, try to at least be credible in your fabrications.

Yes QB> backup NT. But that was never in question. You are just trying to make it seem that way.

Leave my "provocative ass" out of this. It seems to me you said it in the post above. Maybe not quite, if we are willing to gamble on Brace being around for our #2.

The deal was #17 + Rhodes. You won't take it? Fine. I don't see how one pick and one player amounts to mortgaging our future for a QB. Especially since I am sure we will spend all season listening to posts about how it isn't fair to judge TJ, Washington or the O line because team's are stacking the box against the amazing array of QB talent we are trotting out there.

[Aten]

There are eight ****ing threads of you making the same point. Respond to this thread, not the others. The deal (for purposes of this thread) is Rhodes and #17 for Cutler. Do you make it or not? Don't tell me that will be "impactful" on getting a decent backup NT because there is almost no way on God's green earth they are picking a backup NT at #17.

That doesn't matter. Assuming this were an actual rather than a hypothetical trade, it would impact backup NT and anything else you can think of just based on the hit.

[#27TheDominator]

That doesn't matter. Assuming this were an actual rather than a hypothetical trade, it would impact backup NT and anything else you can think of just based on the hit.

Sure, I guess that having that #1 pick last year really helped the NT situation. They have already addressed the backup NT. I'm sure they would like to get better at the spot, but the purpose of having no glaring holes is so that you can pull the trigger if something special comes along, not so you can sit with your thumb up your ass moaning that you can't break up your "elite" secondary or lose picks that might help for line depth if somebody gets hurt.

[lancemehl]

i voted no. i want to trade for Cutler, but i think a first round and Kerry is too steep a price. grow clemens or ratliff if thats what their asking for.

Change that to a second OR NEXT YEAR's FIRST and where do I sign.

I just really want that #17 WR to go with Jay Cutler, although this IS the draft to find talent in rd two at WR.

Kerry Rhodes......it's been fun...no...really.....I'll call you, I promise.

FS Free Agents:

Brian Dawkins-PHI- hopefully more Ronnie Lott than Steve At Water

Mike Brown Bears- injury prone, good full year last year

Another Rex Raven,FS-Dawan Landry- he's restricted and Ravens want him, great upside,

How about Lawyer Milloy or Rodney Harrison, anyone? lol

Bottomline

I'm not comparing a QB to a FS but as far as importance to a franchise and ALL the other variables, including Rhodes slow decline. (No offense, we love Rhodes in Jetland, but, let's take of the green colored glasses, Rhodes and picks(just 2 2nds, not #17,lol, )for Cutler is a No- Brainer. Even if Rhodes was 2006 Rhodes which he hasn't benn since,ummm,yeah,2006.

I'm actual ecstatic that the rumors are Rhodes. Look, we have to get Cutler, to do that we have to give up someone good that we like and picks.

Whatta u guys think? This is what I don't want to give up:

Picks:

Only this years first- I feel like we can land a stud at #17, this is the perfect draft to be in our WR position. I feel like Cutler and a WR at #17( plus, I'd load the draft with Wrs RBs and TE's or sign a few serviceable guys to give Cutler some weapons.)

p.s. If a first had to be included, I'd still be content somewhat picker a WR in 2nd, that's how deep the draft is, but......

Players:

1. Leon and Cothery- who wants to give up Leon? and if they aren't talking about him, don't say his name.Cutler is an excellant scrambler, his ability to wiggle free on a busted play and flip it to Leon in space will turn many negatives to positives. Every QB wants a Leon Washington.Cotch goes nowhere.

2. Offensive Lineman hopefully wouldn't be in the discussion bybut they would have to be evaluated one by one. No Mangold, probably noone but moore.Faneca's a damnn tough call, looking at age.

3.Our Core defensive guys- I feel they would want a QB(probably Clemens) or another offensive guy and picks, BUT they sucked on D so....The defensive guys I wouldn't part with are:

Darelle Revis - this guys special, you don't give up special guys. He shuts down half the field, sorry.

Kris Jenkins- no Jenkins, no Defense, untouchable, all 350.

On the bubble are David Harris, based on what he's capable of, not what he does consistently, and if it was him or forget it, I'd have to send him packing.

and also Bart Scott, who hasn't played a down for us, but i can't get enough of his sound bytes on ESPN radio. I love when he describes this years defense(paraphrasing,):" It will be extremely violent ans suffocating "........"We will make it not worth it to them to fight for a yard because they know the longer they stay up, they will be hit repeatedly"

and finally Lito Shepard, don't want to unlock lock down corners. Finally,I'd add Keller to that list but i heard him rumored and would have to do it.

This is Jay Cutler.

A couple guys who are curiously off:

TJ- sorry 25 year old good-great QB beats out 30 year old average-good RB anyday.

Calvin Pace- This was tough, CP is our pass rush! But, 25 year old good-great QB beats out good pass rusher.

Gholston or BT-We would be so lucky if they went for this. A promising #6 pick who is a beast out of Ohio Stae but just played out of position behind two lock starters or a veteren who has gotten to the QB in this league when he 's felt like it. lol

That's enough. Tell me what you think. I hope we all agree that Cutler HAS to be a Jet!

The debate is how,who,what,when.!

[Aten]

Sure, I guess that having that #1 pick last year really helped the NT situation. They have already addressed the backup NT. I'm sure they would like to get better at the spot, but the purpose of having no glaring holes is so that you can pull the trigger if something special comes along, not so you can sit with your thumb up your ass moaning that you can't break up your "elite" secondary or lose picks that might help for line depth if somebody gets hurt.

Try again.

[NFLs StepChild]

These are the points I'm talking about. If we want a Nose better than Pouha we're probably going to have to use our 1st. You also make several comments about other picks being thrown in which really aren't relevant to the current (Kerry Rhodes equals Ronnie Lott + Jack Tatum all rolled into one) discussion.

Leave my "provocative ass" out of this. It seems to me you said it in the post above. Maybe not quite, if we are willing to gamble on Brace being around for our #2.

The deal was #17 + Rhodes. You won't take it? Fine. I don't see how one pick and one player amounts to mortgaging our future for a QB. Especially since I am sure we will spend all season listening to posts about how it isn't fair to judge TJ, Washington or the O line because team's are stacking the box against the amazing array of QB talent we are trotting out there.

Please read it again. The point was losing a 2nd and 3rd next year is a big deal. The backup NT was part of the equation, as is the other spots we need to address. NT is important because Woods and Robinson likely go somewhere there and then there is nothing relevant after that imo. That combined with the increasing # of teams moving tot he 3-4 forces teams to reach higher for those players. But even if we somehow pull a rabbit out of our ass and get a legitimate NT beyond the draft, where do we get our WR, DE, LG, TE from? It won't be through the draft, so we'll have to spend big in FA, after Cutlers new contract that is, and Ellis will have to be cut cause he's gonna make something like 11 or 13 mill next year and we'll be in worse shape by overpaying for guys like Antonio Bryant or Steve Breaston and further digging ourselves into a hole. When maybe we could get a WR this year at 17, or Tyson Jackson and go WR in rd 2 and actually be ahead of the game for once. The more picks we have to use the better.

17+Rhodes? No. I completely agree that we basically go from good to bad in our secondary by doing that. Elam, Leonard, Lito et al are average players and Rhodes is one of the better young safeties in the game. Is he replaceable? Sure. But why do that?

17+a player I am ok with. Leon or TJ I would move. RBs are easier to replace and TJ is 31 and has a very tradeable contract with another productive year left in him, and if Leon wants Sproles money he can take a walk as well. If we can get something from them and draft a new RB to replace them, all the better. Ellis and the 17 could be an option if we can draft a replacement for Ellis this year, cause he's gonna be an issue with his contract next year and Denver needs a 3-4 DE to help with their new defensive front, so let them get him and he can renegotiate with them.

[SenorGato]

No.

Sports radio sucks.