2009/10 NCAA basketball Thread

[nyjunc]

ND lost to Rutgers at Rutgers.

BC lost to St. Joes, N. Iowa, Harvard, Rhode Island and Maine.

UNC would have a shot to beat them, just like College of Charleston did to beat them.

As we know it is very difficult to win in Piscataway. Just ask juggernaut Vermont.

ND lost to Northwestern, LMU(no hank Gathers or Bo Kimble on this team), and lost back to back to SH and SJU- that is almost impossible to do. You have to be REALLY bad to lose to SH and SJU back to back.

[cr726]

Big East is a better league from top to bottom compared to the ACC this year, true or false?

As we know it is very difficult to win in Piscataway. Just ask juggernaut Vermont.

ND lost to Northwestern, LMU(no hank Gathers or Bo Kimble on this team), and lost back to back to SH and SJU- that is almost impossible to do. You have to be REALLY bad to lose to SH and SJU back to back.

[nyjunc]

Big East is a better league from top to bottom compared to the ACC this year, true or false?

The BE is better this year. I wouldn't say top to bottom b/c the bottom of the BE is so putrid but overall the BE is better.

[cr726]

Ok we agree the Big East is better this year.

The BE is better this year. I wouldn't say top to bottom b/c the bottom of the BE is so putrid but overall the BE is better.

[nyjunc]

Ok we agree the Big East is better this year.

The ACC will still get a higher % of teams in the Tourney, I just don't think we'll have any FF teams which is normal for the BE but very rare for the ACC.

[cr726]

The higher % matters? Normal for BE not to be in FF? What are those numbers? Or do you want to use % for that as well?

The ACC will still get a higher % of teams in the Tourney, I just don't think we'll have any FF teams which is normal for the BE but very rare for the ACC.

[nyjunc]

The higher % matters? Normal for BE not to be in FF? What are those numbers? Or do you want to use % for that as well?

Since 1990 only 7 BE teams have reached the FF, the ACC has sent 20 teams.

Since 1990 there have been 20 FFs played, only 6 were played w/ BE teams, only 4 were played WITHOUT an ACC team

So yeah it's normal for an ACC team to be in the FF and not normal for a BE team to be in the FF.

If the ACC gets 7 teams in and the BE 9(not happening but play along) it's more impresive for the ACC since 58% of it's teams make the Tourney vs. 56% for the BE.

[SouthernJet]

The higher % matters? Normal for BE not to be in FF? What are those numbers? Or do you want to use % for that as well?

u dont follow BBall much I assume,,The answer above says it all as far as FF apearances..

BE better this year, but a FF juggernaut they are not historrically

[gangreenman]

The higher % matters? Normal for BE not to be in FF? What are those numbers? Or do you want to use % for that as well?

+1

Getting a higher % of teams in the tourney doesnt mean squat.... Yeah, there will be a solid amount of 5-10 seeds from the ACC in the tournament because the competition in the ACC isnt even close to the level of competition in the Big East.

The ACC figures to have 1 team get a top 3 seed (Duke). The Big East has 5 teams (SU, Georgetown, Pitt, and WVU) all looking to earn a top 3 seed... So while the ACC may have a SLIGHTLY higher % of teams in the tournament, the BE will have a MUCH higher % of teams with a 1, 2, or 3 next to their name come tourney time. This is because those teams are five of the best in CBB this year, and beat up on the "putrid" opponents who would would probably have better records and a better shot at sneaking their way into the tourney as a lower seed if they didn't have to face those 5 teams.

As for the FF... Lets break down the #s over the past 10 years (99-09)... Lets keep in mind there was a big shift in teams switching conferences in '05...When LVIlle, Marquette, DePaul, and WVU (i think - or did they come BE earlier?) all joined the Big East, while UMiami and BC left for the ACC.

So, here we go:

2009

Big East - 2 (Nova, Connecticut)

ACC - 1 (North Carolina)

B10 - 1 (Mich St.)

2008

ACC - 1 (North Carolina)

Pac10 - 1 (UCLA)

B12 - 1 (Kansas)

CUSA - 1 (Memphis)

2007

Big East - 1 (Georgetown)

B10 - 1 (Ohio St.)

SEC - 1 (Florida)

Pac10 - 1 (UCLA)

2006

Pac10 - 1 (UCLA)

SEC - 2 (Florida, LSU)

CAA - 1 (George Mason)

2005 (merge year -not sure if these are correct)

B10 - 2 (Illinois, Mich St.)

ACC - 1 (UNC)

C-USA - 1 (Lville) --not sure if they were BE yet, but I dont think so.

2004

ACC - 2 (Duke, GTech)

Big East - 1 (Connecticut)

Big 12 - 1 (Ok. State)

2003

Big East - 1 (Syracuse)

Big 12 - 2 (Kansas, Texas)

C-USA? - 1 (Marquette) - NOT BE yet, unsure what conf they were in

2002

ACC - 1 (Maryland)

Big 12 - 2 (kansas, Oklahoma)

Big 10 - 1 (Indiana)

2001

ACC - 2 (Maryland, Duke)

Big10 - 1 (Mich. St.)

Pac10 - 1 (Arizona)

2000

Big10 - 2 (Mich St., Wisconsin)

ACC - 1 (UNC)

SEC - 1 (Florida)

1999

Big10 - 2 (Ohio St., Mich St.)

Big East - 1 (Connecticut)

ACC - 1 (Duke)

By conference total that is: (major conf's)

Big East - 6 appearances

ACC - 10 appearances

Big 10 - 10 appearances

Big 12 - 6 appearances

SEC - 4 appearances

Pac10 - 4 appearances

6 appearances to 10 appearances, and thats with the recent dynasties of UNC and Duke who have almost always been battling for 1 and 2 in the ACC, with everyone else in a race for 3rd... Something that has never been present in the Big East..

I certainly wouldn't call that rarely.

[SouthernJet]

.

yup good #s GGM..

I think NYCUNC was saying that the high # of teams in tourney didnt translate to a higher % of FF teams., while cong with less teams in got higher % of FF teams..but let him speak for himself..

good luck to Cuse this year, I will be rootin for u

[cr726]

Your FF numbers do not seem correct?

Since 1990 only 7 BE teams have reached the FF, the ACC has sent 20 teams.

Since 1990 there have been 20 FFs played, only 6 were played w/ BE teams, only 4 were played WITHOUT an ACC team

So yeah it's normal for an ACC team to be in the FF and not normal for a BE team to be in the FF.

If the ACC gets 7 teams in and the BE 9(not happening but play along) it's more impresive for the ACC since 58% of it's teams make the Tourney vs. 56% for the BE.

[cr726]

BE and the ACC are both powerhouse conferences. Obviously you do not watch anything but the ACC.

u dont follow BBall much I assume,,The answer above says it all as far as FF apearances..

BE better this year, but a FF juggernaut they are not historrically

[gangreenman]

Your FF numbers do not seem correct?

Those #s are correct since '90... the only BE team from '90-'98 to reach the FF was Syracuse in '96.

However the BE had 8 reach the FF from '82-'89... Giving the conference a total of 15 teams represented. Really, all these #s prove though is that the Big East had a big drop off in the 90's..Which pretty much everyone already knew... John Thompson left Georgetown... Calhoun was just hired at UConn from N'Eastern, Provy had just lost their coach (forget his name) who brought them to a FF and some NCAA appearances in the 80's.... "Nova was irrelevant at the time (as they alwasy were till Jay Wright arrived), Pitt was irrelevant (ditto for Jamie Dixon)... Everyone knew the Big East was down in the 90's. Hell, If I recall there was talk about disbanding the conference altogether in the late 90's and even into the 00's.

The way I look at it, is that the Big East has had 6 appearances from '99-'09, after only 1 from '90-'98. That is a notable improvement, and I think you'd be crazy to say the Big East is not a competitive conference because they were down in the '90's.

[afosomf]

ACC blows this year

UNC is an embarassment and Duke Acc's best will prob not make sweet 16

[cr726]

Here are some facts:

Uconn won the Nat'l title in '99, Nova won a Nat'l title in '85. Calhoun was hired in 1986, Thompson resigned in 1999. I do not recall any talk of the Big East ever being disbanded. Ben Howland brought Pitt back not Dixon.

Those #s are correct since '90... the only BE team from '90-'98 to reach the FF was Syracuse in '96.

However the BE had 8 reach the FF from '82-'89... Giving the conference a total of 15 teams represented. Really, all these #s prove though is that the Big East had a big drop off in the 90's..Which pretty much everyone already knew... John Thompson left Georgetown... Calhoun was just hired at UConn from N'Eastern, Provy had just lost their coach (forget his name) who brought them to a FF and some NCAA appearances in the 80's.... "Nova was irrelevant at the time (as they alwasy were till Jay Wright arrived), Pitt was irrelevant (ditto for Jamie Dixon)... Everyone knew the Big East was down in the 90's. Hell, If I recall there was talk about disbanding the conference altogether in the late 90's and even into the 00's.

The way I look at it, is that the Big East has had 6 appearances from '99-'09, after only 1 from '90-'98. That is a notable improvement, and I think you'd be crazy to say the Big East is not a competitive conference because they were down in the '90's.

[gangreenman]

Here are some facts:

Uconn won the Nat'l title in '99, Nova won a Nat'l title in '85. Calhoun was hired in 1986, Thompson resigned in 1999. I do not recall any talk of the Big East ever being disbanded. Ben Howland brought Pitt back not Dixon.

Okay, you got me there. I thought for some reason Thompson resigned in '90 not '99. I knew Uconn won it in '99 and '04. Howland brought Pitt BACK? Pitt was pretty much a mediocre team at best their entire history until the Howland-Dixon era... They have still yet to reach a final four. Also didn't realize 'Nova won in '85. Maybe its my bias and my college basketball education but I always thought the Big East in the '80s was dominated by Gtown (who made 2 FF's in the 80's) and Syracuse, who made it to the Nat'l Championship game and lost on a last second Keith Smart 3 ball. I know the early 80s were the beginnings of what was one of the fiercest and most bitter rivalries the sport had ever seen throughout that entire decade.

And I definitely remember hearing talk about disbanding the Big East... It was never anything imminent or something anyone thought was actually on the cusp of happening, but I do remember some people discussing the possibility... Although it was mainly due to football problems, not basketball, if I remember correctly.

[cr726]

Football yes, basketball being disbanded no. You don't remember Villanova's perfect game to beat Georgetown? I am guess you are a younger guy?

Okay, you got me there. I thought for some reason Thompson resigned in '90 not '99. I knew Uconn won it in '99 and '04. Howland brought Pitt BACK? Pitt was pretty much a mediocre team at best their entire history until the Howland-Dixon era... They have still yet to reach a final four. Also didn't realize 'Nova won in '85. Maybe its my bias and my college basketball education but I always thought the Big East in the '80s was dominated by Gtown (who made 2 FF's in the 80's) and Syracuse, who made it to the Nat'l Championship game and lost on a last second Keith Smart 3 ball. I know the early 80s were the beginnings of what was one of the fiercest and most bitter rivalries the sport had ever seen throughout that entire decade.

And I definitely remember hearing talk about disbanding the Big East... It was never anything imminent or something anyone thought was actually on the cusp of happening, but I do remember some people discussing the possibility... Although it was mainly due to football problems, not basketball, if I remember correctly.

[gangreenman]

Football yes, basketball being disbanded no. You don't remember Villanova's perfect game to beat Georgetown? I am guess you are a younger guy?

I was born in '85... So yeah, guess so. LOL

[cr726]

No problem, I kind of assumed you were young by your memory of the BE! LOL

I was born in '85... So yeah, guess so. LOL

[gangreenman]

Football yes, basketball being disbanded no. You don't remember Villanova's perfect game to beat Georgetown? I am guess you are a younger guy?

And yes, the talk was about football, but it would be basically impossible for the conference to exist without football... And most other conferences wouldnt agree to accepting BE football teams without also having their BBall teams. Therefore if football were disbanded, bball would most likely have to go as well. Thats when the ACC decided as long as they had Maryland, Duke, and UNC, that they wanted to vamp up their football and took VTech, Miami, and BC, all primarily football schools, from us for their football despite their not-so-good basketball. The Big East then added Lville who was a decent football program and a bball program just coming off a final four, depaul, who BE officials figured would help us tap into the midwest market, and Marquette for the same reason, and also they were (and still are) a lot better than DePaul.

We also got USF to be a cheap replacement to UMiami to keep the Florida market open...Now the two football programs seem to have swapped places. USF is a perennial powerhouse, and Miami is pretty much stuck in mediocrity. Funny how things work, I guess.

BTW, I have a feeling the conference is about to get raided again by the B-12 and B-10 unless something is done. This one 16 team league-most of which have no football teams, is starting to get ridiculous. Hopefully something is figured out before these talks start up again.

[cr726]

Talk of Texas going to the Big 10.

And yes, the talk was about football, but it would be basically impossible for the conference to exist without football... And most other conferences wouldnt agree to accepting BE football teams without also having their BBall teams. Therefore if football were disbanded, bball would most likely have to go as well. Thats when the ACC decided as long as they had Maryland, Duke, and UNC, that they wanted to vamp up their football and took VTech, Miami, and BC, all primarily football schools, from us for their football despite their not-so-good basketball. The Big East then added Lville who was a decent football program and a bball program just coming off a final four, depaul, who BE officials figured would help us tap into the midwest market, and Marquette for the same reason, and also they were (and still are) a lot better than DePaul.

We also got USF to be a cheap replacement to UMiami to keep the Florida market open...Now the two football programs seem to have swapped places. USF is a perennial powerhouse, and Miami is pretty much stuck in mediocrity. Funny how things work, I guess.

[nyjunc]

+1

Getting a higher % of teams in the tourney doesnt mean squat.... Yeah, there will be a solid amount of 5-10 seeds from the ACC in the tournament because the competition in the ACC isnt even close to the level of competition in the Big East.

The ACC figures to have 1 team get a top 3 seed (Duke). The Big East has 5 teams (SU, Georgetown, Pitt, and WVU) all looking to earn a top 3 seed... So while the ACC may have a SLIGHTLY higher % of teams in the tournament, the BE will have a MUCH higher % of teams with a 1, 2, or 3 next to their name come tourney time. This is because those teams are five of the best in CBB this year, and beat up on the "putrid" opponents who would would probably have better records and a better shot at sneaking their way into the tourney as a lower seed if they didn't have to face those 5 teams.

As for the FF... Lets break down the #s over the past 10 years (99-09)... Lets keep in mind there was a big shift in teams switching conferences in '05...When LVIlle, Marquette, DePaul, and WVU (i think - or did they come BE earlier?) all joined the Big East, while UMiami and BC left for the ACC.

So, here we go:

2009

Big East - 2 (Nova, Connecticut)

ACC - 1 (North Carolina)

B10 - 1 (Mich St.)

2008

ACC - 1 (North Carolina)

Pac10 - 1 (UCLA)

B12 - 1 (Kansas)

CUSA - 1 (Memphis)

2007

Big East - 1 (Georgetown)

B10 - 1 (Ohio St.)

SEC - 1 (Florida)

Pac10 - 1 (UCLA)

2006

Pac10 - 1 (UCLA)

SEC - 2 (Florida, LSU)

CAA - 1 (George Mason)

2005 (merge year -not sure if these are correct)

B10 - 2 (Illinois, Mich St.)

ACC - 1 (UNC)

C-USA - 1 (Lville) --not sure if they were BE yet, but I dont think so.

2004

ACC - 2 (Duke, GTech)

Big East - 1 (Connecticut)

Big 12 - 1 (Ok. State)

2003

Big East - 1 (Syracuse)

Big 12 - 2 (Kansas, Texas)

C-USA? - 1 (Marquette) - NOT BE yet, unsure what conf they were in

2002

ACC - 1 (Maryland)

Big 12 - 2 (kansas, Oklahoma)

Big 10 - 1 (Indiana)

2001

ACC - 2 (Maryland, Duke)

Big10 - 1 (Mich. St.)

Pac10 - 1 (Arizona)

2000

Big10 - 2 (Mich St., Wisconsin)

ACC - 1 (UNC)

SEC - 1 (Florida)

1999

Big10 - 2 (Ohio St., Mich St.)

Big East - 1 (Connecticut)

ACC - 1 (Duke)

By conference total that is: (major conf's)

Big East - 6 appearances

ACC - 10 appearances

Big 10 - 10 appearances

Big 12 - 6 appearances

SEC - 4 appearances

Pac10 - 4 appearances

6 appearances to 10 appearances, and thats with the recent dynasties of UNC and Duke who have almost always been battling for 1 and 2 in the ACC, with everyone else in a race for 3rd... Something that has never been present in the Big East..

I certainly wouldn't call that rarely.

BE teams played in 4 of the 10 FFs in the 00s

ACC teams played in 7 of 10 FFs in the 00s

4 of 10 is rare and when you go back to the previous decade and realize that BE teams have particpated in only 6 of the last 20 FFs I would call that rare compared to 16 of 20 for the ACC you begin to see the difference.

The BE is better THIS year and really it's been better for a few years but it's more impressive to get a higher % of teams in. We all know teams like WVU, Pitt, GU are frauds and not really worthy of top 3 seeds but they beat up on weak bottom feeders in the BE(or are great at home like GU) and they fatten their records.

After the top 2 teams of SU and Nova the rest of the top 10 of the BE is very similar to the ACC and again the ACC dosn't have the # of bad teams that the BE has- we also don't have the amount of good teams at the top.

Your FF numbers do not seem correct?

They are, please look them up.

Those #s are correct since '90... the only BE team from '90-'98 to reach the FF was Syracuse in '96.

However the BE had 8 reach the FF from '82-'89... Giving the conference a total of 15 teams represented. Really, all these #s prove though is that the Big East had a big drop off in the 90's..Which pretty much everyone already knew... John Thompson left Georgetown... Calhoun was just hired at UConn from N'Eastern, Provy had just lost their coach (forget his name) who brought them to a FF and some NCAA appearances in the 80's.... "Nova was irrelevant at the time (as they alwasy were till Jay Wright arrived), Pitt was irrelevant (ditto for Jamie Dixon)... Everyone knew the Big East was down in the 90's. Hell, If I recall there was talk about disbanding the conference altogether in the late 90's and even into the 00's.

The way I look at it, is that the Big East has had 6 appearances from '99-'09, after only 1 from '90-'98. That is a notable improvement, and I think you'd be crazy to say the Big East is not a competitive conference because they were down in the '90's.

That stretch in the 80s the BE was great sending 8 teams to the FF, of course the ACC also sent 8:p

The BE didn't get bad in the 90s b/c Calhoun just arrived, he had them in the elite 8 in 1990. John thompson didn't retire until the late 90s-early 00s, 'Nova wasn't irrelevant they just choked in the Tourney undre Steve Lappas. They had some really good teams w/ Kittles and co. in the mid 90s.

No one said the BE wasn't a competitive conference but it's foolish to compare them to the ACC over the last 30 years. yes the BE has had great years and been better at times but consistently the ACC has been better.

[cr726]

If you think Georgetown is a fraud, how do you explain the 20 point beating of Duke?

BE teams played in 4 of the 10 FFs in the 00s

ACC teams played in 7 of 10 FFs in the 00s

4 of 10 is rare and when you go back to the previous decade and realize that BE teams have particpated in only 6 of the last 20 FFs I would call that rare compared to 16 of 20 for the ACC you begin to see the difference.

The BE is better THIS year and really it's been better for a few years but it's more impressive to get a higher % of teams in. We all know teams like WVU, Pitt, GU are frauds and not really worthy of top 3 seeds but they beat up on weak bottom feeders in the BE(or are great at home like GU) and they fatten their records.

After the top 2 teams of SU and Nova the rest of the top 10 of the BE is very similar to the ACC and again the ACC dosn't have the # of bad teams that the BE has- we also don't have the amount of good teams at the top.

They are, please look them up.

That stretch in the 80s the BE was great sending 8 teams to the FF, of course the ACC also sent 8:p

The BE didn't get bad in the 90s b/c Calhoun just arrived, he had them in the elite 8 in 1990. John thompson didn't retire until the late 90s-early 00s, 'Nova wasn't irrelevant they just choked in the Tourney undre Steve Lappas. They had some really good teams w/ Kittles and co. in the mid 90s.

No one said the BE wasn't a competitive conference but it's foolish to compare them to the ACC over the last 30 years. yes the BE has had great years and been better at times but consistently the ACC has been better.

[nyjunc]

If you think Georgetown is a fraud, how do you explain the 20 point beating of Duke?

Duke is not a grat team and GU is a different team at home. They have no big wins on the road but they have beaten some good teams at home.

The ACC has zero legit FF contenders this year, the BE has 2.

[cr726]

But that goes against what you are saying about the top vs. bottom teams of each league.

Duke is not a grat team and GU is a different team at home. They have no big wins on the road but they have beaten some good teams at home.

The ACC has zero legit FF contenders this year, the BE has 2.

[nyjunc]

But that goes against what you are saying about the top vs. bottom teams of each league.

How so? Is GU in the bottom of the BE?

[cr726]

Duke is currently the top of the ACC and got crushed by Georgetown. According to you G'town is not in the top of the BE.

How so? Is GU in the bottom of the BE?

[nyjunc]

Duke is currently the top of the ACC and got crushed by Georgetown. According to you G'town is not in the top of the BE.

GU is on the next level after 'Nova and SU but they are at the top of the BE.

GU also crushed duke at home, that series is a home court series. When they play in Cameron duke wins, at the MCI Center GU wins. That's the way it has gone.

[billybroome]

Holy s**t. Kentucky just got HUGE revenge against South Carolina for knocking them out of the #1 spot by an 82 to 61 margin.

This is one team you do not want to face when they get pissed off. The defensive pressure and rebounding ability on this extremely young team is incredible!

I'm just disappointed Nick Ferraro didn't put a a betting line in the gambling forum for this matchup. I could have made some easy Vcash!

[nyjunc]

Holy s**t. Kentucky just got HUGE revenge against South Carolina for knocking them out of the #1 spot by an 82 to 61 margin.

This is one team you do not want to face when they get pissed off. The defensive pressure and rebounding ability on this extremely young team is incredible!

I'm just disappointed Nick Ferraro didn't put a a betting line in the gambling forum for this matchup. I could have made some easy Vcash!

UK is good not great, they are lucky there aren't any great teams in CBB this year. This is the weakest year I think I have seen in my 25 years or so of watching CBB.

[PS17]

Trevor Cooney and Michael Carter-Williams coming to the Cuse in '11.

This team will be stacked for years to come.

[SouthernJet]

Trevor Cooney and Michael Carter-Williams coming to the Cuse in '11.

This team will be stacked for years to come.

they look pretty good..not super 5 star stud high ranked, but very solid and probably will stay 4 years which is always great.

[gangreenman]

they look pretty good..not super 5 star stud high ranked, but very solid and probably will stay 4 years which is always great.

Thats what makes Boeheim great. Hes a good enough recruiter to get the occasional 5 star superstar (Jonny Flynn, Donte Greene, Carmelo Anthony, etc)... But he recruits so well into his system so that he can develop players that were overlooked by many and ended up as 3 or 4 star recruits into being very productive players by the time they leave. Thats something that is extremely important when you coach in a place like Syracuse, where there is not exactly a hotbed of talent in the CNY area to recruit from. The reason he has been successful despite that fact is because he has in some cases, found talent that others missed which fit his system perfectly (Gerry McNamara is the 1st player that comes to mind)... Or develops players their frosh and soph years so that they can contribute their jr and sr years (Andy Rautins is a prime example there)...

I just hope Mike Hopkins can do it just as effectively when he takes over as Boeheim has done it the past 30+ years..

[PS17]

they look pretty good..not super 5 star stud high ranked, but very solid and probably will stay 4 years which is always great.

More importantly, they fit the system. They are tall and long guards and will be PERFECT at the top of JB's zone. Cooney has a sweet outside shot, and is a good slasher. I'm not too familiar with MCW's game, but I am definitely happy they got them both.

And I don't pay attention to the star ratings. Andy Rautins, who was a one-star recruit, has really developed his game, and now he's probably 2nd Team All Big East. Syracuse is recruiting very good players who will fit their system, and their next two recruiting classes are stacked.

This team will be at the top of the Big East for a while.

[nyjunc]

Congrats on the big win over 'Nova 'Cuse fans.