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New York Knicks' Season Opener Game Thread...and on

BroadwayJoe12

By BroadwayJoe12
in Other Sports

What Seed Will the Knicks Get?? (I say 6th)  

18 members have voted

  1. 1. What Seed Will The Knicks Get?


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Aten

Aten

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But I'd hate to trade 2 of the Jets 3 best roleplayers (Gallo, Chandler & Fields).

I don't think it'll come to that. It seems like the second piece would be Toney Douglas given all the talk about Donnie calling around about backup point guards.

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Aten

Aten

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I'd really like to see Donnie find a way to hang on to Chandler. The Guy's a borderline All-Star at this point and I think he's done an incredible job of rounding out his game in the paint this year.

Has Chandler really gotten that much better or is it just the Stoudemire effect? I think people are really overrating the supporting players in the context of a potential Anthony trade. Sure, if we just assume a dominant Amar'e, you can make a case for waiting, but that isn't automatic. He's going to get hurt, tired, into foul trouble, or just generally cool off, and we know that Chandler and Gallo are going to turn into pumpkins when he does, while Melo is good no matter what.

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RutgersJetFan

RutgersJetFan

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Has Chandler really gotten that much better or is it just the Stoudemire effect? I think people are really overrating the supporting players in the context of a potential Anthony trade. Sure, if we just assume a dominant Amar'e, you can make a case for waiting, but that isn't automatic. He's going to get hurt, tired, into foul trouble, or just generally cool off, and we know that Chandler and Gallo are going to turn into pumpkins when he does, while Melo is good no matter what.

For Gallo I'd actually disagree considering he's actually not playing as well as he did last year. Re: Chandler, he's like 6th or 7th in efficiency for forwards this season and it's not like Amare has really spiked his play that much more than it had already been increasing as per last season.

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Has Chandler really gotten that much better or is it just the Stoudemire effect? I think people are really overrating the supporting players in the context of a potential Anthony trade. Sure, if we just assume a dominant Amar'e, you can make a case for waiting, but that isn't automatic. He's going to get hurt, tired, into foul trouble, or just generally cool off, and we know that Chandler and Gallo are going to turn into pumpkins when he does, while Melo is good no matter what.

Amare has taken the true superstar role and made everyone around him better. Chandler playing with Amare has definitely made Chandler better.

Chandler is the type of roleplayer you need to win a championship. He'll never be a star, but he's the perfect garbage bucket player who can score when things aren't going right for the stars. He's the type of player who will kill an opponent because the defense is so focused on Amare and Felton.

I'm working on the premise that there is no way Melo signs an extension with another team, especially with the owners insisting on rolling back salaries. So the Knicks can get better by signing him. You brought up a good point about Chandler and his Bird rights. It will be dicey to keep them both.

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BTW, I had to chuckle because on another board a poster argued that Amare was not an MVP player because he doesn't play defense.

LeBron (2x), Kobe, Dirk, and Nash (2x) have won the last 6 MVP awards and none of them "play" defense.

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RutgersJetFan

RutgersJetFan

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Amare has taken the true superstar role and made everyone around him better. Chandler playing with Amare has definitely made Chandler better.

Chandler is the type of roleplayer you need to win a championship. He'll never be a star, but he's the perfect garbage bucket player who can score when things aren't going right for the stars.

I actually think he's a lot more than that. Things were going very well for Felton and Amare yesterday and Chandler was still fantastic. D'Antoni runs a ton of plays for him (unlike Fields, who's purely a garbage guy) He's learned the pick and roll well from Amare, there was one play where he confused Williams with it so much yesterday that he didn't even switch and left Chandler wide open behind the arc. He's really learned to master the weak side of the court for when teams double up on STAT, which isn't easy to do. Rob Mahoney had a great piece the other day about how his shots per game at the rim are down by more than a full attempt, yet his efficiency numbers have gone up due to cutting down on sloppy attempts from the field and focusing on smarter, spot-up 3's.

In regards to some of the points that Aten made, sans injuries, even if Amare cools off, teams have to account for his every move on the court because they're eventually going to have to start covering Chandler. Meaning even on his off nights, Chandler can still draw defenders to open things up for Felton and Co. Pretty sure I posted it last year and people laughed at me, but I've always thought he could eventually make an All-Star game or two and I still do. I'd hate to lose that type of threat in the frontcourt for Melo, because he's actually strong in all of the areas that Melo's weak (3-pointers, interior defense), and he's an ideal 6th man.

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RutgersJetFan

RutgersJetFan

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I don't think it'll come to that. It seems like the second piece would be Toney Douglas given all the talk about Donnie calling around about backup point guards.

I think the Douglas talk has more to do with the Mayo rumors. But he could always be looking to swing Mayo to ship off to Denver in order to avoid giving up Fields.

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RutgersJetFan

RutgersJetFan

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BTW, I had to chuckle because on another board a poster argued that Amare was not an MVP player because he doesn't play defense.

LeBron (2x), Kobe, Dirk, and Nash (2x) have won the last 6 MVP awards and none of them "play" defense.

No doubt his lack of ability to body up on bigs when the court shrinks hurts the team. Kept the Nets and Raptors in both games. The turnovers are killer too. But I just don't see how he isn't MVP through the first 1/4 of the season. He's won player of the week twice. He's completely flipped a franchise and a city around in one offseason. I think Lebron and Wade cancel each other out, ditto for Gasol with Kobe, Duncan with Parker/Manu, and Rondo with Garnett. At this point I think the top candidates are Durant and Amare, and you have to take in to account the stage that Amare's done it on and the situation he acquired. IMO it's a no brainer thus far.

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BroadwayJoe12

BroadwayJoe12

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No doubt his lack of ability to body up on bigs when the court shrinks hurts the team. Kept the Nets and Raptors in both games. The turnovers are killer too. But I just don't see how he isn't MVP through the first 1/4 of the season. He's won player of the week twice. He's completely flipped a franchise and a city around in one offseason. I think Lebron and Wade cancel each other out, ditto for Gasol with Kobe, Duncan with Parker/Manu, and Rondo with Garnett. At this point I think the top candidates are Durant and Amare, and you have to take in to account the stage that Amare's done it on and the situation he acquired. IMO it's a no brainer thus far.

Anyone who doesn't include STAT in the MVP talk is either outside their mind or just hasn't seen his play this year. The only other player I really think is having a type of MVP-caliber season is Dirk; he's averaging 25 and 8 while leading his team to a 19-4 record in the west and amidst a 12 game winning streak.

You're spot on that a lot of the usual guys are on teams with other players who will cancel them out;

-Lebron/Wade/Bosh

-Pau/Kobe

-Duncan/Parker/Manu

-Rondo/Pierce/KG

-Durant/Westbrook.....Westbrook is playing at a higher level that KD right now, what's he averaging, 23-9-5?? impressive

The guys who I personally feel deserve it besides Amar'e, who are the lone superstar on their team, are Derrick Rose (has been playing superbly with a very tough schedule), Deron Williams, Dwight Howard and CP3. The other guys mentioned above like Westbrook, Kobe etc. are all great, but I think the other superstar on their team will take away from their votes.

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I actually think he's a lot more than that. Things were going very well for Felton and Amare yesterday and Chandler was still fantastic. D'Antoni runs a ton of plays for him (unlike Fields, who's purely a garbage guy) He's learned the pick and roll well from Amare, there was one play where he confused Williams with it so much yesterday that he didn't even switch and left Chandler wide open behind the arc. He's really learned to master the weak side of the court for when teams double up on STAT, which isn't easy to do. Rob Mahoney had a great piece the other day about how his shots per game at the rim are down by more than a full attempt, yet his efficiency numbers have gone up due to cutting down on sloppy attempts from the field and focusing on smarter, spot-up 3's.

In regards to some of the points that Aten made, sans injuries, even if Amare cools off, teams have to account for his every move on the court because they're eventually going to have to start covering Chandler. Meaning even on his off nights, Chandler can still draw defenders to open things up for Felton and Co. Pretty sure I posted it last year and people laughed at me, but I've always thought he could eventually make an All-Star game or two and I still do. I'd hate to lose that type of threat in the frontcourt for Melo, because he's actually strong in all of the areas that Melo's weak (3-pointers, interior defense), and he's an ideal 6th man.

Don't get me wrong, I like Chandler, but while he should be commended for working on improving his game he has also benefitted tremendously by playing with Amare.

My first choice is to keep all 3 (Gallo, Chandler, Fields) and if 1 has to go I would depart with Gallo.

That said, I think the Knicks will wait for the summer on Melo.

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RutgersJetFan

RutgersJetFan

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Don't get me wrong, I like Chandler, but while he should be commended for working on improving his game he has also benefitted tremendously by playing with Amare.

My first choice is to keep all 3 (Gallo, Chandler, Fields) and if 1 has to go I would depart with Gallo.

That said, I think the Knicks will wait for the summer on Melo.

Pretty cool having all this homegrown talent isn't it?

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BroadwayJoe12

BroadwayJoe12

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Yep. You have to go back to the 80s for something like this. Isiah tried it but the "superstar" he had then was Marbury and that was doomed to failure.

I used to love Marbury, he was so insanely talented and could have been the best pg in the league if he wasn't a complete moroon who guzzles vaseline all over the interwebz. It just bothers me that he didn't get it together, the kid was from Coney Island, it couldn't have been a more perfect fit. GAhH it still bothers me.

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I used to love Marbury, he was so insanely talented and could have been the best pg in the league if he wasn't a complete moroon who guzzles vaseline all over the interwebz. It just bothers me that he didn't get it together, the kid was from Coney Island, it couldn't have been a more perfect fit. GAhH it still bothers me.

Me too!

What a waste of talent. The guy averaged 20 ppg and 10 apg for a couple of seasons in a row. Only a few players in history had done that at the time and they were all in the HOF.

Yes, Marbury had HOF ability but he completely wasted it by being an idiot. The fact that he couldn't co-exist with Kevin Garnett was most telling.

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RutgersJetFan

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I used to love Marbury, he was so insanely talented and could have been the best pg in the league if he wasn't a complete moroon who guzzles vaseline all over the interwebz. It just bothers me that he didn't get it together, the kid was from Coney Island, it couldn't have been a more perfect fit. GAhH it still bothers me.

Man I totally agree. I have never in my life seen the Garden try THAT hard to love somebody.

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Nets make a trade to get 2 more 1st rounders. Like I've said earlier, the Nets have always had the best package to get Melo. I don't think that's really debatable considering that the Nets are willing to give up 2 1st rounders.

But the point for me is, there is no way in hell Melo is signing an extension with a 6-19 team stuck in NJ for the next 2-3 yrs. Seriously. On a personal level, how does that make ANY sense to him?

The Nets spin people keep saying he'll agree, but that is just that, spin.

I understand the Nets wanting to do it because they're desperate. But for Melo? It makes no sense.

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Outstanding analysis!

LOL

The Celtics are tied with the Heat with the fewest ppg allowed at 91 and they score about 100 ppg. The first half will be the key. If the Knicks are in the 50s by halftime they'll have a good chance to win. The Knicks play better defensively in the second half. It seems like they pace themselves in the 1st half because D'Antoni's offense tasks them physically.

So that means the Knicks would be able to keep it close in the second half and be able to win the game. If the Knicks succumb to the Celtics' defense early and are in the 40s by halftime they'll have a tough time coming back. Yes, the Celtics are known for blowing 4th quarter leads, but I don't know if the Knicks have enough firepower to do that.

Yes, that might not make sense at first take since the Knicks do lead the NBA is scoring. But that's mainly by system rather than haveing great shooters. If a team has great shooters they can go on a hot streak and it doesn't matter what type of defense the other team plays.

Also, pay attention to FTs. The Knicks are a great FT shooting team (2nd in the NBA in FT% and 6th in attempts). Boston is one of the worst, ranked 21 in FT% and 22nd in attempts.

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Gainzo

Gainzo

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LOL

The Celtics are tied with the Heat with the fewest ppg allowed at 91 and they score about 100 ppg. The first half will be the key. If the Knicks are in the 50s by halftime they'll have a good chance to win. The Knicks play better defensively in the second half. It seems like they pace themselves in the 1st half because D'Antoni's offense tasks them physically.

So that means the Knicks would be able to keep it close in the second half and be able to win the game. If the Knicks succumb to the Celtics' defense early and are in the 40s by halftime they'll have a tough time coming back. Yes, the Celtics are known for blowing 4th quarter leads, but I don't know if the Knicks have enough firepower to do that.

Yes, that might not make sense at first take since the Knicks do lead the NBA is scoring. But that's mainly by system rather than haveing great shooters. If a team has great shooters they can go on a hot streak and it doesn't matter what type of defense the other team plays.

Also, pay attention to FTs. The Knicks are a great FT shooting team (2nd in the NBA in FT% and 6th in attempts). Boston is one of the worst, randed 21 in FT% and 22nd in attempts.

Semih Erden is going to rip you guys to shreds :lol:. MSG should be rocking tonight as this has to be one of the biggest games played at MSG in the last few years.

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JohnnyHector

JohnnyHector

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Also, pay attention to FTs. The Knicks are a great FT shooting team (2nd in the NBA in FT% and 6th in attempts). Boston is one of the worst, randed 21 in FT% and 22nd in attempts.

It's amazing how Shaq and Rondo can bring down the average so much when Allen, KG, and Pierce are collectively at 85%+.

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It's amazing how Shaq and Rondo can bring down the average so much when Allen, KG, and Pierce are collectively at 85%+.

Yep, but those 3 are the only ones over 80%. The rest of the team are in the mid 70s or worse. Collectively, the Big 3's teammates are 64% from the line.

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