New York Knicks' Season Opener Game Thread...and on

[Gainzo]

The refs just handed boston that game. The knicks are for real though.

WTF?

To the rational Knicks fans I apologize for that pricks comment.

[Blackout]

HANDED B OSTON THE GAME? THE BUZZER SOUNDED AND THE BALL ARE IN AMARE'S HANDS

[madmikeisback]

HANDED B OSTON THE GAME? THE BUZZER SOUNDED AND THE BALL ARE IN AMARE'S HANDS

Not talking about that play. The last knicks possession before that Amare had the ball in the lane and was MUGGED by 2 celtics on a shot. No call.

[Blackout]

WTF?

To the rational Knicks fans I apologize for that pricks comment.

hahaha thank you I'm glad I'm not the only one who was liike WTF

[SMC]

The refs were calling a loose game on both sides. So I don't blame the refs at all.

Great game. Oh well. See how they match up with the Heat.

[madmikeisback]

The refs were calling a loose game on both sides. So I don't blame the refs at all.

Great game. Oh well. See how they match up with the Heat.

They were calling ticky tack fouls against Pierce and Allen all night. Whatever happened to getting calls at home?

[SMC]

The encouraging thing is that the Celtics hold opponents to 91 ppg and the Knicks scored 116. The Heat are a good defensive team as well (also holding opponents to 91 ppg). Will be interesting to see if the Knicks can make the Heat beat them at their game as well.

[RutgersJetFan]

Win or lose, Knicks can ball with anyone in the league.

[Blackout]

Win or lose, Knicks can ball with anyone in the league.

when that team is missing it's 3rd, 4th and 5th best big-men yes

but when we had a full roster Rondo dropped 24 assists on NYK

[RutgersJetFan]

when that team is missing it's 3rd, 4th and 5th best big-men yes

but when we had a full roster Rondo dropped 24 assists on NYK

Oooooh burn.

[Falcon63]

They were calling ticky tack fouls against Pierce and Allen all night. Whatever happened to getting calls at home?

Obviously you did not watch the game. If anything, the refs were calling everything in favor of the Knicks. Like you can't even ATTEMPT to say that the play where the Knicks player ran into the ref out of momentum and the ref rushed to call an official timeout that it was the Knicks' ball. It was CLEARLY out on the Knicks, seeing as no Celtic player even came near touching the ball.

[SMC]

when that team is missing it's 3rd, 4th and 5th best big-men yes

but when we had a full roster Rondo dropped 24 assists on NYK

Uhm the reason the Celtics were missing them is because they're old and broken down, dick.

And STFU you became a Celtic fan when Garnett arrived. You're a tool of tools.

[RutgersJetFan]

Uhm the reason the Celtics were missing them is because they're old and broken down, dick.

And STFU you became a Celtic fan when Garnett arrived. You're a tool of tools.

With the exception of Shaq, they were also missing during Rondo's 24-assist game, but shhhhhh, don't tell him.

[RutgersJetFan]

Well, SMC arguing with high school kids aside, I think last night's game was almost a win even in the face of a loss. The pressure last night was all on Boston, and give credit to Pierce and Allen for once again coming through in the clutch. On another note, Robinson's become quite a ridiculous person to watch interact on the court. You watch his antics now and you can't even get mad at D'Antoni for not wanting to deal with that BS toward the end of Robinson's tenure here. I think he acted like an absolute idiot last night, especially in a building that cheered the living crap out of him every time he stepped on that court when he was a Knick. But I guess that's the difference between a David Lee and a Nate Robinson.

What a game for STAT though. That was basically a giant middle finger to everyone who said he wasn't worth that type of money on national TV. Friday should be incredible to watch. Miami's a true rival historically and the crowd should be nuts with Lebron in town. If you think Knick fans wanted that game last night, just wait until Friday.

[Aten]

If anything, the refs were calling everything in favor of the Knicks.

This is why the whole idea of the refs looking to call a certain kind of game is idiotic. A foul is a foul is a foul, and while I understand the idea of erring on the side of letting them play, it just looks terrible when they make a phantom call in a so-called loose game. I only saw one ridiculous call -- ten hours later and Robinson still doesn't have his feet set from that charge they called on Douglas -- but it sticks out like a sore thumb because it was the kind of thing they had been no-calling all game.

[Falcon63]

At least we didn't have that skin-headed-looking ref. He is the absolute worst ref in the history of all sports. No one can even disagree.

[Aten]

Win or lose, Knicks can ball with anyone in the league.

Except at the beginning of the second quarter. We lost to a great team with great players playing great in the clutch but it never should have come to that. We curl up and die every time Amare comes out and it's keeping teams in games we should be winning going away.

[JohnnyHector]

This is why the whole idea of the refs looking to call a certain kind of game is idiotic. A foul is a foul is a foul, and while I understand the idea of erring on the side of letting them play, it just looks terrible when they make a phantom call in a so-called loose game. I only saw one ridiculous call -- ten hours later and Robinson still doesn't have his feet set from that charge they called on Douglas -- but it sticks out like a sore thumb because it was the kind of thing they had been no-calling all game.

That's the call I was going to bring up... you can't swallow your whistle when Gallo repeatedly hits the deck on the Knicks end and then turn around and call Douglas for that nonsense.

[JohnnyHector]

Except at the beginning of the second quarter. We lost to a great team with great players playing great in the clutch but it never should have come to that. We curl up and die every time Amare comes out and it's keeping teams in games we should be winning going away.

It's like they don't know what to do on offense when he's not on the floor. Turiaf should not be handling the ball - at the 3-point stripe no less - 2-3 times in a possession.

[Aten]

That's the call I was going to bring up... you can't swallow your whistle when Gallo repeatedly hits the deck on the Knicks end and then turn around and call Douglas for that nonsense.

Would have been bad enough if they had swallowed the whistle. That blocking call (on Boston's possession right after his second three in the third quarter, I think) was ******* terrible.

[RutgersJetFan]

quote name='JohnnyHector' timestamp='1292512423' post='1739394']

It's like they don't know what to do on offense when he's not on the floor. Turiaf should not be handling the ball - at the 3-point stripe no less - 2-3 times in a possession.

Lack of depth in the frontcourt and nobody to run the offense when Felton's out. Chandler's the only other player on the team who can run the pick and roll (further reason why I don't think you trade him by any means). They run the pop well with Gallo at times but if he's off like he was in the first half then you're screwed.

Yeah, they're still a few guys short. We knew this already,

[Aten]

Lack of depth in the frontcourt and nobody to run the offense when Felton's out. Chandler's the only other player on the team who can run the pick and roll (further reason why I don't think you trade him by any means). They run the pop well with Gallo at times but if he's off like he was in the first half then you're screwed.

Yeah, they're still a few guys short. We knew this already,

I dunno. It's weird because it's only a problem when Amare is actually on the bench. When he's on the floor, obviously we mostly run the offense through him but there are also stretches when he's conspicuously not involved. The rest of the team doesn't struggle during those stretches like they do when he's out, and you can't really explain that with the fact that the other team has to account for him because it's pretty obvious when they're in that mode and the defense lays off him accordingly.

[SMC]

Foul issues, I agree with Aten on the Douglas call. That was ridiculous. Nate was NEVER set. But NBA refs are horrible, much worse than NFL officials so I expect calls like that on either side. That said, it wasn't really a badly called game.

Amare on the bench. It's crazy how the team goes into a shell when he's not there. Sheridan posted a link to a study that showed that the the difference between Amare on the floor and when he's off is an insane figure like close to 20 point swing.

The Knicks are still a work in progress. This year was about being playoff contenders and building toward being a championship contender. They need more bench help. Also, it's unfortunate that Randolph hasn't contributed/D'Antoni has exiled him to the bench. He's an extra big who could guard bigs, at least theoretically because of his shot blocking ability.

[Aten]

The Knicks are still a work in progress.

There's no such thing as progress in basketball. There's just quantum leaps and stagnation. Look at Dallas, look at Phoenix. Building a foundation, putting a system in place, and developing chemistry are all well and good but it's superior firepower that seals deals. If last night failed to convince anybody that it's time to move on Melo I dunno what to say.

[SMC]

There's no such thing as progress in basketball. There's just quantum leaps and stagnation. Look at Dallas, look at Phoenix. Building a foundation, putting a system in place, and developing chemistry are all well and good but it's superior firepower that seals deals. If last night failed to convince anybody that it's time to move on Melo I dunno what to say.

Uhm, I used the phrase "work in progress" to mean that the Knicks still need to add more pieces. I didn't mean it to say that, "oh, they just need to play together more, etc." The Knicks need some more players without question. Whether get Melo now is a different debate.

[Aten]

Whether get Melo now is a different debate.

I don't think it will ultimately take both Gallo and Chandler, but even if it does we're better off with Carmelo and somebody who doesn't need the ball. Having two tweeners instead of one legit third option and one role player is just grossly inefficient.

[madmikeisback]

I don't think it will ultimately take both Gallo and Chandler, but even if it does we're better off with Carmelo and somebody who doesn't need the ball. Having two tweeners instead of one legit third option and one role player is just grossly inefficient.

The guy they need to make sure they keep is Fields because his defense and rebounding would be an awesome complement to Melo. I would try to do something like Gallo, Randolph, Eddy Curry's contract and a 1st.

[SMC]

I don't think it will ultimately take both Gallo and Chandler, but even if it does we're better off with Carmelo and somebody who doesn't need the ball. Having two tweeners instead of one legit third option and one role player is just grossly inefficient.

I get that, but my problem is that I'm 100% confident that Melo would sign as a FA.

I think based on reports that Melo's camp understands that the owners intend to roleback salaries so signing a $65 million extension won't be worth $65 million at the end of the day. So there is no real threat of Melo being traded somewhere else and signing there. I think he goes to the Mavs as a mercenary.

Adding Melo as a FA puts the Knicks on better championship contention than trading for him now. Wouldn't trading for Melo now just increase the workload on Amare and Felton minute wise? Or do you think D'Antoni would be comfortable with Douglas and Melo out there alone with scrubs while Amare and Felton rest?

The bottom line for me is that I don't think trading for Melo makes the Knicks a championship contender this season. Hollinger had an article on it that based on the players the Knicks would give up, adding Melo would hurt the team's offensive efficiency.

[Aten]

Adding Melo as a FA puts the Knicks on better championship contention than trading for him now.

How? We're going to cap out and lose guys whether we trade for him or wait. What specifically do we gain by conceding the best season of Amare's career?

[RutgersJetFan]

How? We're going to cap out and lose guys whether we trade for him or wait. What specifically do we gain by conceding the best season of Amare's career?

He's been playing like this since last season dude. It's not an anomaly and he'll be fine. You don't really gain anything and you don't lose anything either. The year you're really risking is next year in that there isn't going to be basketball.

[Aten]

He's been playing like this since last season dude. It's not an anomaly and he'll be fine.

I understand that it's not an anomaly, but he's 28 years old. He's not getting any better and he's not going to maintain this level of play for five years.

You don't really gain anything and you don't lose anything either.

You don't gain anything and you lose a season of Amare and Carmelo together in their prime. Whether we move on Melo now or wait for the summer we're locked in to the same plan. Trade Curry or let him expire. Trade Chandler or let him go to sign Melo as a FA. Move Randolph while he has some kind of value or don't. It's not like any trade is going to decimate the rotation. It's gonna be two of Chandler, Gallo, and Fields at worst, Melo replaces one of them, and we can patch something together with Walker, Williams, and maybe (probably not) Azubunotgonnaworkhereanymore even if the trade leaves us without the ammo to do another.

The year you're really risking is next year in that there isn't going to be basketball.

All the more reason, no? Next year is for Jets fans. Fortune favors the bold.

[RutgersJetFan]

I understand that it's not an anomaly, but he's 28 years old. He's not getting any better and he's not going to maintain this level of play for five years.

You're basing this on knee problems which aren't inevitable considering they haven't affected him at all since 2006. I can see the point, but guys like Kidd who've lasted through the surgery didn't get better after it. Amare has.

Whether we move on Melo now or wait for the summer we're locked in to the same plan. Trade Curry or let him expire. Trade Chandler or let him go to sign Melo as a FA. Move Randolph while he has some kind of value or don't.

We're two months away from the trade deadline. The Knicks have gotten absolutely raped over the past ten years in rushing in to things like this. It's exactly why we don't have the picks that Denver wants.

It's not like any trade is going to decimate the rotation. It's gonna be two of Chandler, Gallo, and Fields at worst, Melo replaces one of them, and we can patch something together with Walker, Williams, and maybe (probably not) Azubunotgonnaworkhereanymore even if the trade leaves us without the ammo to do another.

I think if that were the case then Melo would have been a Knick by now. You're discounting the fact that Denver simply doesn't want to deal with NY. They don't want these players with the exception of Fields kind of. On top of that the Knicks don't even have the picks to entice them into taking a few players like LA did with Memphis or Boston had with Minnesota. Dallas was able to pull off the Butler deal last season because they had players that Washington wanted. So Donnie has to swing some picks and then actually decimate the rotation on top of that. Therefore we're left with no picks for the next 6-7 years and stuck with no bench and a 3-man lineup that would be thinner than Miami's on their worst day. I don't think it's remotely possible to win a championship if Toney Douglas is your 5th best player.

There's still the chance that Orlando or Dallas just say eff it and bring him in as a mercenary, which is probably a big part of why Denver still isn't in a rush to ship him to NY.

All the more reason, no? Next year is for Jets fans. Fortune favors the bold.

I think it depends. Does this team look like a team that can win a championship this season if they lose 2-3 of the existing contributors and add Carmelo? Probably not. It's great to be bold but you also can't be stupid. Bold moves like LA's with Gasol and Boston with Garnett didn't leave the teams completely top-heavy. That would however be the case with the Knicks. They'd have no bench. They'd still be without a legit 5, a pure 2, and short now an extra swingman and garbage guy. Miami certainly has a shot with a thin lineup, but that's because Lebron is an alien and I can't say that a trifecta of Felton/Melo/Amare would have as good a shot carrying a shoddy lineup to a title. In the end they have a better shot at a championship by keeping this team in tact and adding him along with someone like Crawford or Redd, or even (fingers crossed), Roy.

[BroadwayJoe12]

Last night's win basically shows that as long as our starters are fresh, we can hang with and beat anyone.

- Gallo played phenomenal defense on Durant. Yes, KD got his, but Gallo's defense was very underrated and at just 22/23 the only thing stopping him from being an 18-20 ppg player is maintaining his intensity throughout an entire game. It's a matter of taking his 2nd half against boston and first half against Miami and translating it into an entire season, because when he plays at that level, we are a completely different team.

For those who watched the game, his passing was out of this world, as was our entire team; 30 assists??

- Our defense really stepped up yesterday, hopefully that's something that's around to stay. When we play good defense, it leads to quick transition buckets and really fuels our offense.

- I know everyone is eager to get melo, who wouldn't be. However, the one guy that really interests me that I've heard rumors about is Anderson Verajo. He is exactly the type of dirty-work, good rebounder, play off the ball type of Center we need to play against Amar'e. He kept STAT in check when we played them and his passion has let him body-up against the other bigs in the east. I think it's an absolutely perfect fit, as it would than slide Chandler back to the 6th man role, where he would be able to provide that spark off the bench, while still getting starter minutes, and our offense hopefully wouldn't stagnate when STAT leaves the game.

If we could get Verajo and a backup PG, I think those would be the exact type of small moves, while still maintaining some cap flex, that we haven't made in the last decade.

Should be interesting to see what happens, but these types of games show that once the playoffs come, we can hang with anyone.

[RutgersJetFan]

Lot of great performances last night, but IMO Fields played out of his mind. Pretty cool stat, the kid's actually leading all guards in boards right now. Not rookie guards, all guards.

[JohnnyHector]

Last night's win basically shows that as long as our starters are fresh, we can hang with and beat anyone.

- Gallo played phenomenal defense on Durant. Yes, KD got his, but Gallo's defense was very underrated and at just 22/23 the only thing stopping him from being an 18-20 ppg player is maintaining his intensity throughout an entire game. It's a matter of taking his 2nd half against boston and first half against Miami and translating it into an entire season, because when he plays at that level, we are a completely different team.

For those who watched the game, his passing was out of this world, as was our entire team; 30 assists??

- Our defense really stepped up yesterday, hopefully that's something that's around to stay. When we play good defense, it leads to quick transition buckets and really fuels our offense.

- I know everyone is eager to get melo, who wouldn't be. However, the one guy that really interests me that I've heard rumors about is Anderson Verajo. He is exactly the type of dirty-work, good rebounder, play off the ball type of Center we need to play against Amar'e. He kept STAT in check when we played them and his passion has let him body-up against the other bigs in the east. I think it's an absolutely perfect fit, as it would than slide Chandler back to the 6th man role, where he would be able to provide that spark off the bench, while still getting starter minutes, and our offense hopefully wouldn't stagnate when STAT leaves the game.

If we could get Verajo and a backup PG, I think those would be the exact type of small moves, while still maintaining some cap flex, that we haven't made in the last decade.

Should be interesting to see what happens, but these types of games show that once the playoffs come, we can hang with anyone.

Pass on Varejao. I can't see committing to that long of a contract for a role player, especially not for the money he's making (7m+ per).