This Mock draft has us taking LSU Mingo at 9

[unbanmadmike1]

slats, on 01 Apr 2013 - 16:05, said:

If you replace Matt Slauson with Steve Hutchinson in his prime, the overall impact on the offense is minimal. It's certainly not worth the 9th pick in the draft.

The rookie wage scale makes making the "safe choice" less important as well. You need to swing for the fences there and take the best impact player available. A modest upgrade over Holmes or Pace makes a much more significant difference on the field than a massive upgrade at guard.

That just isn't true.

[bitonti]

If you replace Matt Slauson with Steve Hutchinson in his prime, the overall impact on the offense is minimal. It's certainly not worth the 9th pick in the draft.

 

The rookie wage scale makes making the "safe choice" less important as well. You need to swing for the fences there and take the best impact player available. A modest upgrade over Holmes or Pace makes a much more significant difference on the field than a massive upgrade at guard.

 

 

a massive upgrade at guard is better than a bust at OLB, WR etc. I know we don't go into these things looking for impact guards in the top 10 but what you are saying is pick for need. and If it doesn't work it's a cheap mistake. The Jets can't afford any type of mistake with the state of the team the way it is. This pick has to be great. And if they trade Revis 2 picks have to be great. I see the Warmack pick as a hedge against Risk, from a GM who has done nothing risky since he took the job. You and Tom might think the risk at 9 is acceptable for whoever but Idzik hasn't done a risky thing all spring. 

[slats]

That just isn't true.

 

It's 100% true.

 

a massive upgrade at guard is better than a bust at OLB, WR etc. I know we don't go into these things looking for impact guards in the top 10 but what you are saying is pick for need. and If it doesn't work it's a cheap mistake. The Jets can't afford any type of mistake with the state of the team the way it is. This pick has to be great. And if they trade Revis 2 picks have to be great. I see the Warmack pick as a hedge against Risk, from a GM who has done nothing risky since he took the job. You and Tom might think the risk at 9 is acceptable for whoever but Idzik hasn't done a risky thing all spring. 

 

There has never been, nor will there ever be, a great pick in the top ten at the guard position.

 

And they really don't need the player they take there to have an impact as a rookie. Argue against it all you like, but this is not shaping up to be a playoff year for the Jets. You can take the most potential there, and hope it develops by 2014.

[unbanmadmike1]

The risk isn't as much the money as the opportunity cost of the no 9 pick.

[unbanmadmike1]

It's 100% true.

Slausen was a mediocre to bad run blocker. A great run blocker there would make a HUGE difference.

[slats]

The risk isn't as much the money as the opportunity cost of the no 9 pick.

 

You're squandering the opportunity by taking a position of littel consequence. As soon as you take a guard there, you failed.

[bitonti]

 You can take the most potential there, and hope it develops by 2014.

 

Great players are often great right away. 

[unbanmadmike1]

slats, on 01 Apr 2013 - 16:21, said:

You're squandering the opportunity by taking a position of littel consequence. As soon as you take a guard there, you failed.

If there was a great RB, WR or QB to take there you take him but you have to let the talent that is going to be available in the draft dictate what you do. If Deon Jordan falls you have to take him there but he won't and the other pass rushers that will be there are all guys who have a high risk of being a bust.

[slats]

If there was a great RB, WR or QB to take there you take him but you have to let the talent that is going to be available in the draft dictate what you do. If Deon Jordan falls you have to take him there but he won't and the other pass rushers that will be there are all guys who have a high risk of being a bust.

 

You take the chance on greatness there, knowing you can find a starting guard in the fourth round or later if you want one.

[HessStation]

You already have a sh*tload of cash tied up in Brick and Mangold before you add another first round pick there.

 

and what will a rookie contract for say, Warmack cost? 4 for $12M with a 5th yr. option. How is this ground breaking while you could be possibly forming the most dominant interior line in the NFL for the next 4-5 years. 6 years from now Mangold and Brick will be 35. This argument is absolutely absurd, it's exactly what got Bradway fired as the GM, when he thought he could just plug players in Adrien Clarke and get by. 

[dbatesman]

I see the Warmack pick as a hedge against Risk, from a GM who has done nothing risky since he took the job. You and Tom might think the risk at 9 is acceptable for whoever but Idzik hasn't done a risky thing all spring. 

 

I still think Idzik will be loath to invest that kind of money in a guard, particularly given that we have two first-rounders on the line already, but this is the best argument I've yet heard for Warmack being the pick. Especially when paired with the Carpenter/Moffitt thing.

[unbanmadmike1]

You take the chance on greatness there, knowing you can find a starting guard in the fourth round or later if you want one.

There is no player who's going to be there with "greatness" upside. Except Warmack, Cooper and MAYBE Austin.

[slats]

There is no player who's going to be there with "greatness" upside. Except Warmack, Cooper and MAYBE Austin.

 

No one needs greatness at guard. The difference between great and decent at the guard position has a minimal impact on the field. As much as I love Mangold, the same holds true for the center position, and it's what makes his contract a problem, too.

[T0mShane]

and what will a rookie contract for say, Warmack cost? 4 for $12M with a 5th yr. option. How is this ground breaking while you could be possibly forming the most dominant interior line in the NFL for the next 4-5 years. 6 years from now Mangold and Brick will be 35. This argument is absolutely absurd, it's exactly what got Bradway fired as the GM, when he thought he could just plug players in Adrien Clarke and get by.

Who was the "most dominant interior line" in the NFL over the past five years?

[HessStation]

Let's take a look at the major dynasties in the past 30 years. 

 

80's Redskins- Russ Grimm, Mark May

90's Cowboys- Nate Newton, Stepnoski C

00's Pats- Koppen, Compton, Woody, Andruzzi, Mankins

09 Saints- Nicks, Goodwin, Evans

12 49ers- Iupati, Goodwin, Boone

 

etc etc..

[unbanmadmike1]

slats, on 01 Apr 2013 - 16:43, said:

No one needs greatness at guard. The difference between great and decent at the guard position has a minimal impact on the field. As much as I love Mangold, the same holds true for the center position, and it's what makes his contract a problem, too.

That isn't true either. Great interior linemen can make a running game and since we know the jets' passing game is going to suck next year, why not make the running game a big positive?

[HessStation]

Who was the "most dominant interior line" in the NFL over the past five years?

 

hard to say, Pats,  Saints, 49ers, Ravens, Texans would all be highly ranked. 

[slats]

That isn't true either. Great interior linemen can make a running game and since we know the jets' passing game is going to suck next year, why not make the running game a big positive?

 

It is true. Go look up some advanced stats.

[unbanmadmike1]

slats, on 01 Apr 2013 - 16:48, said:

It is true. Go look up some advanced stats.

You also haven't made any affirmative argument for taking any other player which is pretty much the crux of it.

[SenorGato]

Remember when Goodwin backed up Mawae? 

[HessStation]

Who plays guard in front of Aaron Rodgers and Adrian Peterson?

Josh Sitton plays G in front of Aaron Rodgers and just missed making All Pro. 

 

Peterson runs behind who John Sullivan had 5 more votes than Mangold at Center while both of their Tackles received votes.

[#27TheDominator]

Remember when Goodwin backed up Mawae? 

 

But we still had to trade Abraham and burn a first rounder on a center!

[T0mShane]

Josh Sitton plays G in front of Aaron Rodgers and just missed making All Pro.

Peterson runs behind who John Sullivan had 5 more votes than Mangold at Center while both of their Tackles received votes.

Where were those guys drafted? Where was Carl Nicks drafted?

[Il Mostro]

Here's the thing: the O-line doesn't need fixing. Everything else does.

 

 

With Vlad and Colon currently penciled in as starters, there are definite problems that need to be addressed as much as any position we have a shot at filling via the draft.  Unless, of course, they have been strategically placed there in order to get our QB decapitated.

[unbanmadmike1]

But we still had to trade Abraham and burn a first rounder on a center!

You can keep Abraham and his playoff gagging. The Jets haven't missed him.

[Il Mostro]

No one needs greatness at guard. The difference between great and decent at the guard position has a minimal impact on the field. As much as I love Mangold, the same holds true for the center position, and it's what makes his contract a problem, too.

 

 

You only notice what those guys bring when they are gone.  Remember the game old "whathisname" started in place of Mangold and couple of years ago?  What a disaster. Another reason to like Cooper, since he can be plugged in at center.

[#27TheDominator]

You can keep Abraham and his playoff gagging. The Jets haven't missed him.

 

 

Exactly.  What use did the Jets have for an elite pass rusher.  Pace and Thomas have really been getting after the QB!

[HessStation]

Where were those guys drafted? Where was Carl Nicks drafted?

 

What's your point? And Brady was picked in the 6th and Stevie Johnson was taken in the 7th. Mankins, Iupati, Grubbs, Faneca were all taken in the first round. 

[unbanmadmike1]

#27TheDominator, on 01 Apr 2013 - 17:08, said:

Exactly. What use did the Jets have for an elite pass rusher. Pace and Thomas have really been getting after the QB!

Those are two different issues. The fact that Pace and Thomas were mediocre doesn't change that Abraham is a soft gutless player who sat out playoff games with the sniffles.

[Il Mostro]

You can keep Abraham and his playoff gagging. The Jets haven't missed him.

 

 

I don't this is something we need to worry about for quite a while.  Poise under pressure..

[T0mShane]

Exactly. What use did the Jets have for an elite pass rusher. Pace and Thomas have really been getting after the QB!

Revisionist. Abraham was a pariah after voluntarily sitting out the playoffs. The Jets couldn't have brought him back if they wanted to.

[T0mShane]

What's your point? And Brady was picked in the 6th and Stevie Johnson was taken in the 7th. Mankins, Iupati, Grubbs, Faneca were all taken in the first round.

The point being that you're as likely to get really good guards in the fourth round as you are in the first.

[T0mShane]

If you get #13 and want to draft Warmack, fine. But to bang the table for Warmack and Cooper because they'll "both be Pro Bowlers" is silly. The same logic holds for drafting the top punter at 9 and the top kicker at 13.

[HessStation]

The point being that you're as likely to get really good guards in the fourth round as you are in the first.

 

Ok, Robert Mathis was in the 5th so why not take a passrusher then? 

[HessStation]

If you get #13 and want to draft Warmack, fine. But to bang the table for Warmack and Cooper because they'll "both be Pro Bowlers" is silly. The same logic holds for drafting the top punter at 9 and the top kicker at 13.

 

Yeah b/c guys like Faneca, Mankins, Iupati, and Grubbs haven't been instrumental in their teams success.