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There was a ton of offensive talent in the 1st round


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#1 sirlancemehlot

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 10:05 AM

And they were Lineman.

 

It seems most on this board want it both ways.  They are tired of the big, splashy headline GM moves like trading for Favre, Tebow, etc.

They want to build a solid team with a solid foundation.

They want to rebuild from the ground up, and fill the glaring holes.

 

So they scream for Mingo and Austin...and claim guards aren't 1st round worthy.  Excuse me?

 

This fan base has been warped by the candy store shopping sprees of Mike Tannenbaum over the past several years.

Fact is, our most successful draft in recent memory also featured two first round selections.  And we took Mangold and D'brick.  Perrenial pro-bowlers and the most talented offensive players on this team right now.

 

It's time to start thinking about truly building.  Foundation first.  The thinking that "you can grab lineman anywhere" is outdated and nonsensical.  Truth is, you can grab a RB anywhere.  But solid lineman are invaluable and far less prevalent than Jets fans seem to think.  Not so with at least 9 other NFL teams according to yesterday's draft results.

Center (1)

Guard (4) Justin Pugh can be either G or OT

Tackle (4)

 

Lineman taken top 4 (3)

Lineman taken top ten (5)

 

Jets needs included G and T. 

 

We missed the boat here. And haven't improved this team.  But we could have.  Warmack was ours for the taking.  And we still had a shot at Milliner, Jones, Star, Floyd, etc.  with #13.  Swing and a miss if you ask me. But, hey, at least we didn't take a guard. 


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#2 SenorGato

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 10:38 AM

But solid lineman are invaluable and far less prevalent than Jets fans seem to think.

 

I believe this to be the case in DTs much more than I believe this to be true for guards.


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#3 Il Mostro

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 10:56 AM

There is a ton of offensive talent that was not picked in the 1st and still available.


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#4 jameso2404

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 11:50 AM

I don't post much in here but I do

 

And they were Lineman.

 

It seems most on this board want it both ways.  They are tired of the big, splashy headline GM moves like trading for Favre, Tebow, etc.

They want to build a solid team with a solid foundation.

They want to rebuild from the ground up, and fill the glaring holes.

 

So they scream for Mingo and Austin...and claim guards aren't 1st round worthy.  Excuse me?

 

This fan base has been warped by the candy store shopping sprees of Mike Tannenbaum over the past several years.

Fact is, our most successful draft in recent memory also featured two first round selections.  And we took Mangold and D'brick.  Perrenial pro-bowlers and the most talented offensive players on this team right now.

 

It's time to start thinking about truly building.  Foundation first.  The thinking that "you can grab lineman anywhere" is outdated and nonsensical.  Truth is, you can grab a RB anywhere.  But solid lineman are invaluable and far less prevalent than Jets fans seem to think.  Not so with at least 9 other NFL teams according to yesterday's draft results.

Center (1)

Guard (4) Justin Pugh can be either G or OT

Tackle (4)

 

Lineman taken top 4 (3)

Lineman taken top ten (5)

 

Jets needs included G and T. 

 

We missed the boat here. And haven't improved this team.  But we could have.  Warmack was ours for the taking.  And we still had a shot at Milliner, Jones, Star, Floyd, etc.  with #13.  Swing and a miss if you ask me. But, hey, at least we didn't take a guard. 

I don't post much in here, but I do come here to read the insight of other Jet fans. I am sorry, but I get the feeling if the Jets drafted two O-lineman you would be in here bitching about them drafting two O-lineman. The Jets need Offensive skill postions. Believe it or not, the O-line did not grade out to bad last year. As soon as Austin was gone anybody worth taking at 9 or 13 offensively was not there. I believe Idzik was trying to trade down at 13. That is why they took the whole clock, no takers=no trade. Are you trying to kill the Jets for taking the best available talent with two high picks in the draft? Really. The time to reach for need postions is later on in the draft. The idea for the early rounds is to get solid starters or as close as possible to that from day one (hopefully with luck pro-bowlers). As seen by other teams selections there just isn't a great amount of skill position players in this draft that graded out to high. The board didn't break the Jets way, Austin was taken right before them. It happens, but I am absolutely ok with not grabbing a guy way to early because of a need at a position. Tonight there is plenty of skill position players that the Jets can get that will be drafted at the position they should be drafted at.


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#5 sirlancemehlot

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 12:53 PM

I don't post much in here but I do

 

I don't post much in here, but I do come here to read the insight of other Jet fans. I am sorry, but I get the feeling if the Jets drafted two O-lineman you would be in here bitching about them drafting two O-lineman. The Jets need Offensive skill postions. Believe it or not, the O-line did not grade out to bad last year. As soon as Austin was gone anybody worth taking at 9 or 13 offensively was not there. I believe Idzik was trying to trade down at 13. That is why they took the whole clock, no takers=no trade. Are you trying to kill the Jets for taking the best available talent with two high picks in the draft? Really. The time to reach for need postions is later on in the draft. The idea for the early rounds is to get solid starters or as close as possible to that from day one (hopefully with luck pro-bowlers). As seen by other teams selections there just isn't a great amount of skill position players in this draft that graded out to high. The board didn't break the Jets way, Austin was taken right before them. It happens, but I am absolutely ok with not grabbing a guy way to early because of a need at a position. Tonight there is plenty of skill position players that the Jets can get that will be drafted at the position they should be drafted at.

How would drafting chance Warmack at 9 have been a reach when he went at #10?  The second guard taken, BTW.  I would not be bitching about two OL.  But I would have preferred one.  The Oline that did not grade out out too bad last year, as you mention?  It doesn't exist.  Slauson is a Bear and we never resigned Moore.  And our RT is crap.  So basically there is nothing in the above post that stands up.  Just my opinion.


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#6 j4jets

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 01:12 PM

The only OL I was ok with the Jets to take in the first round was Chance. However, Dee Milliner was rated much higher than Chance and NOBODY expected him to fall to us. He did and it was a no brainer. Jets had Austin as #1, Milner as #2, and Richardson as #4 rated players on the board. Not sure of the 3rd rated guy (Jordan?). According to the Jets board, we got picks worth 2nd overall and 4th overall.

 

As for OL pro bowl starters can be found in later rounds. Someone on ESPN pointed out, that in recent years, about 80% of guards selected in the 2nd round panned out as expected, highest of any position in the NFL. As for skill players, Austin was already off the board. EJ Manuel was drafted much higher than he should have. Eifert was a pick I would have been ok with but at 13, he seemed a reach as he went 21, where he should have. Hopkins and Patterson also would have been reaches at #13. So unless Jets made a 'reach' selection, they drafted the board.

 

I know we need offensive firepower, but you always draft BPA. You consider you need and if there are two guys you rate a 95 and a 92, with 92 being a need, you go with 92. But if your need rated 88 while the BPA rated 95, you absolutely take BPA. If you don't, your team gets weaker in the long run. You can always trade your guys if you have too many good players at one spot. Is there a team that would complain about having two pro bowl caliber CBs or three pro bowl caliber DLs?


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#7 LAD_Brooklyn

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 02:10 PM

^^^Mingo, Millner, Austin, Richardson (or swap Millner and Austin)

 

Edit: Jets would not have taken Mingo at 9, and did not like the risk involved in Jarvis Jones. Per Cimini

 

Cooper, Millner/Austin, Richarson


Edited by LAD_Brooklyn, 26 April 2013 - 02:13 PM.

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#8 JiF

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 02:12 PM

I'd just like to also point out, that in the history of the NFL, there has never been a good offensive lineman or skills position player taken after the 1st round.

 

Ever. 


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#9 Sperm Edwards

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 02:48 PM

It isn't that guards aren't 1st round worthy.  They aren't top 9 in the country worthy.  Neither are centers.

 

For all the fluff about the Giants knowing what they're doing by appropriately valuing OL, Pugh was the first round 1 offensive lineman they took in almost 15 years.  In that span of time NOT taking offensive linemen in round 1, they've gone to 3 superbowls, winning two of them.  And he was a reach by about 20 picks, just like the last time they went OL in round 1 with Pettigout.  Their stud guard they took in the top 10 of round 2, not the top 10 of round 1, and they never would even with shtupping Coughlin's daughter.

 

That center Dallas took was arguably - if not likely - the single worst pick of the draft so far.  

 

Jacksonville taking a RT at the top of the draft is another move that's questionable at best.  They'd have been better off taking a pass rusher and going tackle at the top of round 2.  Last team to take a "sure thing" RT towards the top of round 1 was Arizona.  A left tackle you can argue taking that high.  But drafting one to play RT? Jacksonville sucks and you're seeing why.


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#10 #27TheDominator

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 03:19 PM

Based the OP a lot of offensive linemen went in the first, but half went before the Jets pick?  A real indictment of our FO for not getting those guys. 


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#11 Sperm Edwards

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 03:28 PM

Based the OP a lot of offensive linemen went in the first, but half went before the Jets pick?  A real indictment of our FO for not getting those guys. 

 

Took the best CB, who many thought would be off the board in the top 5, instead of the 2nd best guard, who no one thought that about. Nincompoops.  


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#12 #27TheDominator

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 03:53 PM

Took the best CB, who many thought would be off the board in the top 5, instead of the 2nd best guard, who no one thought that about. Nincompoops.  

 

Don't be a dick.  The third and fourth best guards were still available when they made the 13th pick!  All that offensive talent gone in the first and they didn't pick any!


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#13 dickkotite

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 04:25 PM

And they were Lineman.

 

It seems most on this board want it both ways.  They are tired of the big, splashy headline GM moves like trading for Favre, Tebow, etc.

They want to build a solid team with a solid foundation.

They want to rebuild from the ground up, and fill the glaring holes.

 

So they scream for Mingo and Austin...and claim guards aren't 1st round worthy.  Excuse me?

 

This fan base has been warped by the candy store shopping sprees of Mike Tannenbaum over the past several years.

Fact is, our most successful draft in recent memory also featured two first round selections.  And we took Mangold and D'brick.  Perrenial pro-bowlers and the most talented offensive players on this team right now.

 

It's time to start thinking about truly building.  Foundation first.  The thinking that "you can grab lineman anywhere" is outdated and nonsensical.  Truth is, you can grab a RB anywhere.  But solid lineman are invaluable and far less prevalent than Jets fans seem to think.  Not so with at least 9 other NFL teams according to yesterday's draft results.

Center (1)

Guard (4) Justin Pugh can be either G or OT

Tackle (4)

 

Lineman taken top 4 (3)

Lineman taken top ten (5)

 

Jets needs included G and T. 

 

We missed the boat here. And haven't improved this team.  But we could have.  Warmack was ours for the taking.  And we still had a shot at Milliner, Jones, Star, Floyd, etc.  with #13.  Swing and a miss if you ask me. But, hey, at least we didn't take a guard. 

Ive been saying this forever. O LINE is more important than rb, te and wr. Think about it.....if an Oline never allows a single pass rush, the qb has tons of time and even fag maxman could score. If the Oline blocks and dominates, even peglegs could move the chains. the opposite is also true. a great bq, rb and wr mean nothing if they are getting sacks and opening no holes. god damn all you to hell


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#14 stoicsentry

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 05:21 PM

Don't be a dick.  The third and fourth best guards were still available when they made the 13th pick!  All that offensive talent gone in the first and they didn't pick any!


This. How do you let a guard who is top 3 in his class slip by you at #13 overall? Ridiculous. Guard is a premium position. It's not like you can find an adequate guard in the 5th round from Nebraska or anything...


Edited by stoicsentry, 26 April 2013 - 05:22 PM.

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#15 Sperm Edwards

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 05:26 PM


This. How do you let a guard who is top 3 in his class slip by you at #13 overall? Ridiculous. Guard is a premium position. It's not like you can find an adequate guard in the 5th round from Nebraska or anything...

 

LOL!!!!


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#16 Jetsfan80

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 05:27 PM


This. How do you let a guard who is top 3 in his class slip by you at #13 overall? Ridiculous. Guard is a premium position. It's not like you can find an adequate guard in the 5th round from Nebraska or anything...

 

6th.  6th round.  Too bad those don't exist though, like you say.


Edited by Jetsfan80, 26 April 2013 - 05:28 PM.

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#17 unbanmadmike1

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 05:29 PM

6th.  6th round.  Too bad those don't exist though, like you say.

Thats the path to Vlad Ducasse, starting LG. 


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#18 sirlancemehlot

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 10:10 PM

It isn't that guards aren't 1st round worthy.  They aren't top 9 in the country worthy.  Neither are centers.
 
For all the fluff about the Giants knowing what they're doing by appropriately valuing OL, Pugh was the first round 1 offensive lineman they took in almost 15 years.  In that span of time NOT taking offensive linemen in round 1, they've gone to 3 superbowls, winning two of them.  And he was a reach by about 20 picks, just like the last time they went OL in round 1 with Pettigout.  Their stud guard they took in the top 10 of round 2, not the top 10 of round 1, and they never would even with shtupping Coughlin's daughter.
 
That center Dallas took was arguably - if not likely - the single worst pick of the draft so far.  
 
Jacksonville taking a RT at the top of the draft is another move that's questionable at best.  They'd have been better off taking a pass rusher and going tackle at the top of round 2.  Last team to take a "sure thing" RT towards the top of round 1 was Arizona.  A left tackle you can argue taking that high.  But drafting one to play RT? Jacksonville sucks and you're seeing why.


So your saying that the giants picking OL is dumb because they won superbowls before when they didn't. Dude. Cut it out.
5 OL taken with the top ten picks including two guards. Warmack still available at 9. And that pick is somehow ridiculous? Dude. Cut it out.
When the draft is heavily weighted towards a particular position, and you need that position, it's better to draft a banged up CB and d tackle listed by most as third best available?

And you guys are calling my premise of drafting oline foolish. Chance warmack will be a perennial pro bowler and likely add 20 yds per game or more to any rushing attack. I believe that and that's why I'm disappointed we left him on the board for the very next team to grab.
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#19 #27TheDominator

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Posted 26 April 2013 - 11:48 PM

So your saying that the giants picking OL is dumb because they won superbowls before when they didn't. Dude. Cut it out.
5 OL taken with the top ten picks including two guards. Warmack still available at 9. And that pick is somehow ridiculous? Dude. Cut it out.
When the draft is heavily weighted towards a particular position, and you need that position, it's better to draft a banged up CB and d tackle listed by most as third best available?

And you guys are calling my premise of drafting oline foolish. Chance warmack will be a perennial pro bowler and likely add 20 yds per game or more to any rushing attack. I believe that and that's why I'm disappointed we left him on the board for the very next team to grab.

 

The bold I can accept.  I assume that Idzik does not feel that way. I don't think he is looking at this as a need draft and I'm glad he isn't. I don't believe Warmack would be adding 20 yards to this teams rush offense. 


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#20 sirlancemehlot

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Posted 27 April 2013 - 08:13 AM

The bold I can accept.  I assume that Idzik does not feel that way. I don't think he is looking at this as a need draft and I'm glad he isn't. I don't believe Warmack would be adding 20 yards to this teams rush offense. 


Well I guess that's the rub. The way warmack dominated te'o and others absolutely proved he could add major yardage to a teams game total. Two or three solid blocks can gain you 20 per play, forget 20 per game. Superior line talent gives a team an incredible advantage. If you dont think warmack offers the kind of production I foresee, then we simply differ in opinion. And that's fine.
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