JetsFanInDenver Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Because whiners are going to whine!!! Thanks for showering your football smarts and super intellect on this conversation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Island Leprechaun Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I won't mix Idzik in this. This has nothing to do with him. I have heard various names assigned for overpaying like 'premium'. I gotta say, has a nice ring to it. I have heard various excuses for overpaying too like "no team can be in cap hell". But at the end of the day it's overpaying. And when you overpay you could possibly acquire the 6-7 players that JETS did in the is FA. But if you are paying at fair value that same dollar amount gets you probably 8-9 players. As i said the two extra talented players on the team take you from a outside pretender to a legit contender. That's the issue i have. We are not a legit contender's. While some fans are happy we will win a few games right now most realize and accept we are a wild card team. Which lowers the probability of winning it all. Now if we are wild card team with money to improve the following season I would still be ok with it. But here we blew our cap wad and all we have is a team that at best is wild card winner. So enjoy the few wins or that 10-6 season. But fans like me who are sick and tired of waiting 45 year plus would rather have a plan and a team geared towards that plan of being a legit SuperBowl contender. I understand that the draft is still ahead of us and if the new FO performs lights out than believe me i would have no problem changing my opinion. Finally any fan who bought that piece of news that a mystery team was willing to pay even more for Cromartie, i have a bridge in Brooklyn priced to sale, just for you. Let me know. So what inside information do you have that he wasn't offered a better package by a team like Oakland? And why would it be so amazing to you that he chose in any case to return to NY with a deal that was perhaps slightly less substantial? He clearly wanted to come back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanInDenver Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 So what inside information do you have that he wasn't offered a better package by a team like Oakland? And why would it be so amazing to you that he chose in any case to return to NY with a deal that was perhaps slightly less substantial? He clearly wanted to come back. You seem so confident. So answer these two basic things. 1. What did Oakland exactly offer him ? Please let me know. 2. And do you want the Oakland Raiders to be the benchmark that the JETS live by ? I don't have to point out the futility of a football organization that is Oakland Raiders and the total absurdity of some of their decision making that has got their fans teams that have occupied the cellar of their division for better part of a decade and a team that is the laughing stock of the football world. Are we talking about an offer from that Oakland Raiders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Island Leprechaun Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 You seem so confident. So answer these two basic things. 1. What did Oakland exactly offer him ? Please let me know. 2. And do you want the Oakland Raiders to be the benchmark that the JETS live by ? I don't have to point out the futility of a football organization that is Oakland Raiders and the total absurdity of some of their decision making that has got their fans teams that has occupied the cellar of their division for better part of a decade and a team that is the laughing stock of the football world. Are we talking about an offer from that Oakland Raiders. Oakland is pure speculation of course. I just posted what was in the press. I guess they might buy your bridge. You've got your opinion and you're sticking by it, based on your opinion. so be it. They got Cro for a slightly higher than average deal. Bowles knows him. Cro knows the Jets. I'm guessing they know what they are doing better than you. But then again, you have a lot of experience running a professional football team, so who knows? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanInDenver Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Oakland is pure speculation of course. I just posted what was in the press. I guess they might buy your bridge. You've got your opinion and you're sticking by it, based on your opinion. so be it. They got Cro for a slightly higher than average deal. Bowles knows him. Cro knows the Jets. I'm guessing they know what they are doing better than you. But then again, you have a lot of experience running a professional football team, so who knows? I have never seen a weaker attempt at a takedown. None of us over here on this board have any experience running a professional football team and they know better, so we should all shut up and post nothing at all. Sorry Max. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Long Island Leprechaun Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I have never seen a weaker attempt at a takedown. None of us over here on this board have any experience running a professional football team and they know better, so we should all shut up and post nothing at all. Sorry Max. Not interested in takedowns. And as to your last point, that is most often the case. We honestly more often than not are blowing hot air and don't know sh*t. That's why I'm puzzled when posters take on airs like they have inside info or like they're Bill Parcells. A little humility always makes for more interesting discussion. Bottom line: you and I don't know anything about what Cro was offered. I at least offered something from the media citing the always popular "unnamed source." You offered nothing at all except your vast knowledge and experience posting on the internet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcat Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Also with respect to the JETS what concerns me is most of the players like Revis, Cro, Harris, Marshall are close to or on the wrong side of 30. Which is why the guaranteed money for them is only for 2 years for Cro and Harris and 3 for Revis. After those 2 and 3 years respectively, they can be cut without any financial or cap liability. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 My view on contracts for most any sport is that there is no big sin on overpaying on a short term deal or a deal in which you can get out from under quickly. It sounds like some of the Jets signings that look over priced on the surface are structured so they can get away from them if things do not work out. The Sanchez and Holmes Tanny contracts were nasty in that regard, way over priced and couldn't get away from, them. This guy gets it. Tanny purposefully put us in cap Hell because we were in what he viewed as a legit superbowl window. so he kept restructuring and delaying the pain to keep window open as long as possible. it was not a horrible play at the time, but then sanchez regressed and cost him his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Savage69 Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Thanks for showering your football smarts and super intellect on this conversation. Using the Soup Nazi voice.. No camp report for you.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dcat Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 what I'm seeing of the ways these deals are structured + knowing we needed to spend cash the next 2 years, it's hard to complain. The one issue however is that players like McDougal and Miliner are unlikely to be given a chance to develop. Sure they will. Bowles very often puts 5 and sometimes even 6-7 DBs out there. Milliner coming off Achilles will not be 100% for quite some time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sourceworx Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Thanks for showering your football smarts and super intellect on this conversation. Wow you're an ass. KRL is one of the best and most knowledgeable posters on here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 I won't mix Idzik in this. This has nothing to do with him. I have heard various names assigned for overpaying like 'premium'. I gotta say, has a nice ring to it. I have heard various excuses for overpaying too like "no team can be in cap hell". But at the end of the day it's overpaying. And when you overpay you could possibly acquire the 6-7 players that JETS did in the is FA. But if you are paying at fair value that same dollar amount gets you probably 8-9 players. As i said the two extra talented players on the team take you from a outside pretender to a legit contender. That's the issue i have. We are not a legit contender's. How much do you really believe the Jets overpaid for Harris and Cromartie? $1M/year? $2M? How much? Do you honestly believe they overpaid to the tune of "two extra talented players on the team take you from a outside pretender to a legit contender"? C'mon, just zero validity there. You're nit-picking, and trying to justify your nit-picking. But you're not making a legit case. The team still has something like $14M available in cap space right now. Those two contracts aren't stopping them from adding two more free agents in the price range you're talking about. While some fans are happy we will win a few games right now most realize and accept we are a wild card team. Which lowers the probability of winning it all. Now if we are wild card team with money to improve the following season I would still be ok with it. But here we blew our cap wad and all we have is a team that at best is wild card winner. So enjoy the few wins or that 10-6 season. But fans like me who are sick and tired of waiting 45 year plus would rather have a plan and a team geared towards that plan of being a legit SuperBowl contender. I understand that the draft is still ahead of us and if the new FO performs lights out than believe me i would have no problem changing my opinion. Finally any fan who bought that piece of news that a mystery team was willing to pay even more for Cromartie, i have a bridge in Brooklyn priced to sale, just for you. Let me know. Lol. Put away the violin. Fans like you who are sick and tired, etc., etc. Too funny. Every Jet fan is in the same boat. Trying to spin that the alleged overpayment made to Cromartie and Harris could've instead been used to sign two additional players who could've pushed this team over the top is downright laughable. Seriously. And they didn't blow their entire cap, a cap that will probably go up again next year. Every contract they signed can be voided in a year or two for substantial cap savings if the player isn't living up to their deal (with the exception of Revis, but he can be cut in year three if they need to). Coincidentally, two years from now begins a new four year period of cap spending/savings that can carry over, a period that they'll be able to enter into with a clean slate should they decide to do so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jgb Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 How much do you really believe the Jets overpaid for Harris and Cromartie? $1M/year? $2M? How much? Do you honestly believe they overpaid to the tune of "two extra talented players on the team take you from a outside pretender to a legit contender"? C'mon, just zero validity there. You're nit-picking, and trying to justify your nit-picking. But you're not making a legit case. The team still has something like $14M available in cap space right now. Those two contracts aren't stopping them from adding two more free agents in the price range you're talking about. Lol. Put away the violin. Fans like you who are sick and tired, etc., etc. Too funny. Every Jet fan is in the same boat. Trying to spin that the alleged overpayment made to Cromartie and Harris could've instead been used to sign two additional players who could've pushed this team over the top is downright laughable. Seriously. And they didn't blow their entire cap, a cap that will probably go up again next year. Every contract they signed can be voided in a year or two for substantial cap savings if the player isn't living up to their deal (with the exception of Revis, but he can be cut in year three if they need to). Coincidentally, two years from now begins a new four year period of cap spending/savings that can carry over, a period that they'll be able to enter into with a clean slate should they decide to do so. great post but she is too committed to her opinion at this point so even God Himself could not get her to admit it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 You aren't. In 2016 Cro is 0 in dead money and 8M in cap savings if cut he updated it. it was reversed last night Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Do we know how much everyone else was willing to pay them. I understand your point. But i do not think the market would have paid Cro what he is getting paid here. Harris never saw the market. So without competing with anyone we handed him a very rich contract. I understand we had to spend a certain percentage. But can anyone tell me how much we spend as compared to how much he we were forced to spend. I would appreciate specific figures. Now i am not against spending. Spend away. But at the end of the day you have to get the best bang for your buck. You have to try to get the best value. Because that could mean the difference between ending up 9 new talented players rather than over paying and getting just 7 players. That extra two players may end up pushing the team from an outside pretender to a proper contender. That's why i am not a big fan of overpaying. Also with respect to the JETS what concerns me is most of the players like Revis, Cro, Harris, Marshall are close to or on the wrong side of 30. I really hope this does not happen now that they are in green and white. But players at the age do tend to sometimes lose their speed or have trouble staying on the field. So after spending all that money we still have a huge risk factor. Now i haven't had the chance to see these contract details but the impression i am getting is it's a 2 year window and if it does not work out we walk away scot free (not sure how true that is). I could elaborate more on this some other day. I gotta go. All in all does not give me a high level of comfort. We will see. cro said he took less to come here. I don't have all the offer sheets in front of me but I will take him at his word. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Charlie Brown Posted March 23, 2015 Share Posted March 23, 2015 Because whiners are going to whine!!! This!!!! 10000% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanatic Posted March 24, 2015 Share Posted March 24, 2015 I won't mix Idzik in this. This has nothing to do with him. I have heard various names assigned for overpaying like 'premium'. I gotta say, has a nice ring to it. I have heard various excuses for overpaying too like "no team can be in cap hell". But at the end of the day it's overpaying. And when you overpay you could possibly acquire the 6-7 players that JETS did in the is FA. But if you are paying at fair value that same dollar amount gets you probably 8-9 players. As i said the two extra talented players on the team take you from a outside pretender to a legit contender. That's the issue i have. We are not a legit contender's. While some fans are happy we will win a few games right now most realize and accept we are a wild card team. Which lowers the probability of winning it all. Now if we are wild card team with money to improve the following season I would still be ok with it. But here we blew our cap wad and all we have is a team that at best is wild card winner. So enjoy the few wins or that 10-6 season. But fans like me who are sick and tired of waiting 45 year plus would rather have a plan and a team geared towards that plan of being a legit SuperBowl contender. I understand that the draft is still ahead of us and if the new FO performs lights out than believe me i would have no problem changing my opinion. Finally any fan who bought that piece of news that a mystery team was willing to pay even more for Cromartie, i have a bridge in Brooklyn priced to sale, just for you. Let me know. Mac undid the damage that Idzik did last season, oh and BTW, we are contenders. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanInDenver Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 How much do you really believe the Jets overpaid for Harris and Cromartie? When you start asking by how much did the JETS overpay what you are implicitly admitting is the JETS overpaid. Than you start making arguments about why it is okay to overpay and why overpaying does not hurt in team building. To me at the point the argument ends right there. I mean once someone starts making the point that crystal meth is not so bad for you and always keeps your weight in check so what if you get a few fenced in teeth than essentially at that point of time there is not much left to say. So keep justifying the overpayment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanInDenver Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Because whiners are going to whine!!! Wow you're an ass. KRL is one of the best and most knowledgeable posters on here. That post above is a pure display of super intellect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanatic Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 When you start asking by how much did the JETS overpay what you are implicitly admitting is the JETS overpaid. Than you start making arguments about why it is okay to overpay and why overpaying does not hurt in team building. To me at the point the argument ends right there. I mean once someone starts making the point that crystal meth is not so bad for you and always keeps your weight in check so what if you get a few fenced in teeth than essentially at that point of time there is not much left to say. So keep justifying the overpayment. WTF are you talking about? All you do is whine about contracts. With all the great move the Jets have made, you sound like a real fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanInDenver Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 WTF are you talking about? All you do is whine about contracts. With all the great move the Jets have made, you sound like a real fool. Wow..that is so enlightening oh great one. Thanks for putting me in my place with comments that reflect your football smarts and superior intellect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanatic Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Wow..that is so enlightening oh great one. Thanks for putting me in my place with comments that reflect your football smarts and superior intellect. It wasn't meant to put you in your place, just pointing out the stupidity of your whining. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanInDenver Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 It wasn't meant to put you in your place, just pointing out the stupidity of your whining. GFY! (is that clear enough) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanatic Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 GFY! (is that clear enough) What a fool you are. I guess I did put you in your place! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanInDenver Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 What a fool you are. I guess I did put you in your place! wow....just wow. Stare at a piece of wood or something. May increase your IQ points back to double digits. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 When you start asking by how much did the JETS overpay what you are implicitly admitting is the JETS overpaid. Than you start making arguments about why it is okay to overpay and why overpaying does not hurt in team building. To me at the point the argument ends right there. I mean once someone starts making the point that crystal meth is not so bad for you and always keeps your weight in check so what if you get a few fenced in teeth than essentially at that point of time there is not much left to say. So keep justifying the overpayment. I didn't say they overpaid. I asked you how much you think they overpaid to justify your argument that instead of "overpaying" Cromartie and Harris, they instead could've signed two players in addition to them who would've ended 47 years of futility and brought a Lombardi trophy home. So how much do you believe it was, and who could they've signed with that money that would've put the team over the top? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanInDenver Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I didn't say they overpaid. I asked you how much you think they overpaid to justify your argument that instead of "overpaying" Cromartie and Harris, they instead could've signed two players in addition to them who would've ended 47 years of futility and brought a Lombardi trophy home. So how much do you believe it was, and who could they've signed with that money that would've put the team over the top? Yes, they paid a premium for these two players. No doubt about it. You can call it a premium. But essentially what does premium stand for......overpaying. Now i keep hearing that JETS had to spend some amount of money. But how much did they have to spend. And how much did they actually spend. I would love someone to throw absolute numbers there. And no matter what I am not paying Cro the 8 mill per year contract, whether it's essentially a 2 years or 4 years. That was the boneheaded thing this team could do. Period. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 You can call it a premium. But essentially what does premium stand for......overpaying. Now i keep hearing that JETS had to spend some amount of money. But how much did they have to spend. And how much did they actually spend. I would love someone to throw absolute numbers there. And no matter what I am not paying Cro the 8 mill per year contract, whether it's essentially a 2 years or 4 years. That was the boneheaded thing this team could do. Period. You can stop deflecting anytime you want. It's this argument I want to hear more about: I won't mix Idzik in this. This has nothing to do with him. I have heard various names assigned for overpaying like 'premium'. I gotta say, has a nice ring to it. I have heard various excuses for overpaying too like "no team can be in cap hell". But at the end of the day it's overpaying. And when you overpay you could possibly acquire the 6-7 players that JETS did in the is FA. But if you are paying at fair value that same dollar amount gets you probably 8-9 players. As i said the two extra talented players on the team take you from a outside pretender to a legit contender. That's the issue i have. We are not a legit contender's. While some fans are happy we will win a few games right now most realize and accept we are a wild card team. Which lowers the probability of winning it all. Now if we are wild card team with money to improve the following season I would still be ok with it. But here we blew our cap wad and all we have is a team that at best is wild card winner. So enjoy the few wins or that 10-6 season. But fans like me who are sick and tired of waiting 45 year plus would rather have a plan and a team geared towards that plan of being a legit SuperBowl contender. I understand that the draft is still ahead of us and if the new FO performs lights out than believe me i would have no problem changing my opinion. Finally any fan who bought that piece of news that a mystery team was willing to pay even more for Cromartie, i have a bridge in Brooklyn priced to sale, just for you. Let me know. So again, what was this fair value that the Jets should've paid in free agency for Cromartie and Harris, and who are the two players they could've signed with that money that would've transformed the team team from outside pretender to legitimate contender? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanatic Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 You can stop deflecting anytime you want. It's this argument I want to hear more about: So again, what was this fair value that the Jets should've paid in free agency for Cromartie and Harris, and who are the two players they could've signed with that money that would've transformed the team team from outside pretender to legitimate contender? You actually try to reason with him? Who cares what he thinks? The Jets are much better team with Cro and Harris, and in Cro's contract there is no guaranteed money after this season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanatic Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 wow....just wow. Stare at a piece of wood or something. May increase your IQ points back to double digits. Very maturer and intelligent post.I guess the air is a little thin where you live. Ha! Ha! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flgreen Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 I agree the structure of these big money contracts is excellent. Matches up real well with how the 4 year cap window works. Think a big tip of the hat should go to Jackie Davidson. She is Rod Graves asst., who in the Jets current cap expert. Think she carries the title Manager of football administration Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanInDenver Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 Very maturer and intelligent post.I guess the air is a little thin where you live. Ha! Ha! I am just a reflection of the person I am responding to. Below is an example of a not so mature and a very unintelligent post. WTF are you talking about? All you do is whine about contracts. With all the great move the Jets have made, you sound like a real fool. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JetsFanInDenver Posted March 27, 2015 Share Posted March 27, 2015 You can stop deflecting anytime you want. It's this argument I want to hear more about: That is not a deflection. It is the core of my argument. Overpaying is not acceptable is you want to consistently build solid contenders. If a team has the right philosophy and approach more often than not it would be a contender. That's why franchises like the Steelers succeed more often than not. They let guys like MIke Wallace walk away, even if it's a position of need and do not overpay guys. I would love to see that approach on the JETS and not the Trader Mike way of paying money off like it was going out of style and overpaying players who are on the wrong side of the age curve like he did with Cro and Harris. So again, what was this fair value that the Jets should've paid in free agency for Cromartie and Harris, and who are the two players they could've signed with that money that would've transformed the team team from outside pretender to legitimate contender? Why should i have to sign two players. Its a subjective solution not an objective one. It depends on parameter's whose specifics i am not aware about. I have not seen specific numbers on this. Everyone loves to throw the argument that the JETS had to spend. But how much did they really have to spend in absolute numbers this year in FA and how much did they really end up spending. But here is what i would have like to see happen. I won't have signed Cro at all anywhere close to the price he is being paid. Unless he was bargain basement option I would have not done that. The draft prospects we have on the team in Milliner and MacDougle did show potential to be able to play up there. I think there was enough depth after all the FA signing at that position to give young players with potential a chance. I would grade the Cro trade at F. I would not have traded for Marshall (although I like that trade better because we got a 7th round pick out of it as well). And didn't he have injury issues last season and isn't he on the wrong side of 30. I would have waited to pick two veteran WR's in the FA market because it was a buyer's market and if the new GM was so sold on Brandon Marshall he could have been one of them when he was cut. When i look at the JETS signing veterans at a position with very little starting potential on the roster (because i think after Decker and Kerley there is sharp downfall in talent level) I am looking at not one but two WR's because from what we saw of the two remaining draft picks from last season did not seem they were ready for primetime. Not saying one of these guys cannot step on the field and perform but based on what we saw last season I won't bank on them. And that is with the understanding that the JETS would draft atleast one WR in the Top 4 rounds. Harris, I would have let him test the market. If someone was ready to overpay him I would let him go. But unless there is a fool who was in decision making position out there ready to overpay a LB with the wear and tear of what 8-9 seasons in the league who is on the wrong side of the age curve there was a high chance of getting him back at a better price. And if he was lost too bad, so sad I would have drafted one in Top 3 rounds. I understand the player coming in would have been raw but young players tend to have speed which a guy after 8-9 seasons in the league usually tends to lose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYJetsVets91 Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 I don't know how the dead money thing works, but 2 years is fair for those guys. none of them are so old that you could expect them to just drop off skill wise. it's really very interesting to see how it works, mangold becomes cuttable in 2016 and brick in 2017. Only 7 players and currently under contract through 2018. Really amazing what goes into all of these contracts and planning the roster and jalen saunders is $360,000 in dead money, what a catastrophe that pick was That 99 yard return thoooo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted March 28, 2015 Share Posted March 28, 2015 Heard MACC interview on moving the chains...... very impressive the anti Iddy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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