Heimerdinger Talks Fitzpatrick, Hackenberg

[AFJF]

Just now, FidelioJet said:

you're really looking at mostly one run on a buffalo's bills teams that way overpaid for him and was stuck with him as their starter.  Last year he was brought to be a back-up...otherwise he's mostly been benched.  yes, he's a career back-up - with the benefit of a poor organization making a rash decision and overpay him.

Fitzpatrick is NOT a legitimate NFL starter.  he's a back-up.  

The fact that you dislike him does not change the fact that the Jets benched Geno Smith for 14 consecutive games last season in favor if Fitz, and have named him the starter again this year. 

Better get that "he's a back-up" memo to the Jets ASAP.  Could save them $10 million in cap room.

[32EBoozer]

23 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

Fidelio I think it goes way beyond just talk. They must be scrambling in the back ground looking for cap space and that's not going to be easy with what we currently have going on.

#Revis2theRescue!

[Savage69]

19 hours ago, ljr said:

Which NY Jets QB's do you think have performed better than Fitz last season since Vinnie in '98?

Chaddy cakes was pretty good in 2002..

[Villain The Foe]

1 hour ago, NYs Stepchild said:

Revis already has way too much guaranteed money, but I don't think he would say no to a little more. 

At the expense of pushing that money further down the road? At the expense of possibly getting another contract elsewhere if he wanted? 

 

Like I said, people are reaching for the stars. 

[Villain The Foe]

1 hour ago, AFJF said:

Dude, you jumping in with the teenage newbies and the name-calling?

Ugh....

Saying that people are "reaching for the stars" is now considered name-calling? 

 

lol. Sensitivity. 

[Villain The Foe]

1 hour ago, Jet Blast said:

There is no reason to "find" the cash until (or immediately before) Fitz signs. Much of the required funds would be obtained by mortgaging the future. What if the Jets clear the space and Fitz retires? Then we have mortgaged the future for nothing. You take the loan when your are ready to buy.

There's no reason to find the cash unless you want to sign Fitz. The Jets have not shown any signs that they WANT to find 12 Million dollars for Fitz. 

 

Dreamin'

[Villain The Foe]

27 minutes ago, AFJF said:

The fact that you dislike him does not change the fact that the Jets benched Geno Smith for 14 consecutive games last season in favor if Fitz, and have named him the starter again this year. 

Better get that "he's a back-up" memo to the Jets ASAP.  Could save them $10 million in cap room.

Why is it that everytime someone says something contrary to your Fitz belief you immediately go into the "the fact that you dislike Fitz" and the proceed talking about "Geno"????

 

YOU DONT LIKE GENO YOURSELF! Which is why you keep throwing in the mix instead of dealing what people are saying. What did Geno have to do with what he just told you? Nothing. 

[AFJF]

11 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Saying that people are "reaching for the stars" is now considered name-calling? 

 

lol. Sensitivity. 

Nope, not sensitive at all, but so many new teenagers doing their thing that it's cool to talk to some of the grown upa posters.

Oh, and I was talking about your comment about Fitz  supporters being stupid or making stupid suggestions or whatever it was.

Either way...I think Mac will find a way to make cap room if Fitz comes back so no need for either of us to pretend to know where it'll come from.

 

 

[Jet Nut]

21 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

There's no reason to find the cash unless you want to sign Fitz. The Jets have not shown any signs that they WANT to find 12 Million dollars for Fitz. 

 

Dreamin'

I think for 12 mil the Jets do the prudent thing, which is tell Fitz was nice almost making the playoffs with you.  We can miss them with someone else in 2016 and save money.

I have no problem bringing Fitz back at the kind of money a bottom 3rd QB 33 year old QB should be paid.  None.  But when fans want to argue that he's the best thing since Vinny, that he's a top QB blah, blah, blah and make him a playoff QB who we need because we're a win now team, you have to laugh.  We have some who really weren't paying attention to last season

[Villain The Foe]

2 minutes ago, AFJF said:

Nope, not sensitive at all, but so many new teenagers doing their thing that it's cool to talk to some of the grown upa posters.

Oh, and I was talking about your comment about Fitz  supporters being stupid or making stupid suggestions or whatever it was.

Either way...I think Mac will find a way to make cap room if Fitz comes back so no need for either of us to pretend to know where it'll come from.

 

 

Who's calling who teenagers now????

 

Sensitivity. lol.

And yeah, I was talking specifically about Fitz lovers making stupid suggestions. I thought you'd know the difference between a stupid person and a stupid suggestion. But sometimes people associate their suggestions with their beings. Thats not my problem. 

 

Its getting overrated seeing these stupid, over the top, reaching for the star suggestions about Fitz yet when someone brings up a valid point/question those same Fitz supports will respond with "its because you like Geno" then proceed to do math on Geno, completely sidestepping what was just asked. 

 

I dont do that. Someone asks me a question about Fitz, I rebuttal that he loses 92% of the time when a team scores 21pts or more. Someone brings up the point about Geno, I respond with what Geno had around him as a coaching staff (terrible) talent (which is a fraction of what this team currently is) and the fact that he's still on a rookie contract which means that he's still a young developing QB. Not an 11 year vet that still melts down with the playoffs on the line. 

 

Stay on topic and quit it with the teenager sensitivity crap. 

[Villain The Foe]

2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

I think for 12 mil the Jets do the prudent thing, which is tell Fitz was nice almost making the playoffs with you.  We can miss them with someone else in 2016 and save money 

I think so as well. 

 

People talking about how "easy" it would be to raise 12 million. Sure, it could theoretically be easy, but is it smart? 

Hey, we just cut Mo Wilkerson so now we can sign Ryan Fitzpatrick. Yeah. Macc just freed up 12 million, but how stupid is he for doing such a thing? 

[Jet Nut]

Just now, Villain The Foe said:

I think so as well. 

 

People talking about how "easy" it would be to raise 12 million. Sure, it could theoretically be easy, but is it smart? 

Hey, we just cut Mo Wilkerson so now we can sign Ryan Fitzpatrick. Yeah. Macc just freed up 12 million, but how stupid is he for doing such a thing? 

Why not take that 12 mil and use it towards another player where we get more bang for the buck over what little, if any, benefit we get over another QB?

How about using that 12 mil towards Mo's contract?  You know, someone who is actually worth what he wants 

[ljr]

2 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

I think we would both assume that Ryan Fitzpatrick is better than Brian Hoyer. 

 

With that said, why would Macc bring in Hoyer to start over Geno yet last year he brought in Fitz to be Geno's back up? It makes no sense. Macc didnt want Hoyer and he figured that if he had to go that route then why not draft a QB with some potential that you can mold yourself? 

 

Geno Smith is being heavily underrated with that type of approach. Though I disagree about Fitz being worth 7-12 million to come back because I think Geno could match or surpass what Fitz did last year, I can totally understand why Jets fans would want Fitz back. At the end of the day he had a solid season overall. However, what has Hoyer ever done to get the nod over Geno? I cant find a thing. 

You accept the fact that Geno was meant to be the starter in 2015

i believe once Fitz was able to play after recovering from the broken foot Mac would have decided on him to start.

A persons view on those options will be based on how they judge Geno.

 

[Savage69]

3 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

I think so as well. 

 

People talking about how "easy" it would be to raise 12 million. Sure, it could theoretically be easy, but is it smart? 

Hey, we just cut Mo Wilkerson so now we can sign Ryan Fitzpatrick. Yeah. Macc just freed up 12 million, but how stupid is he for doing such a thing? 

If Mo holds out and misses camp he's sure to get hurt in season like Revis did in 2010..

[AFJF]

6 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

Who's calling who teenagers now????

 

Sensitivity. lol.

And yeah, I was talking specifically about Fitz lovers making stupid suggestions. I thought you'd know the difference between a stupid person and a stupid suggestion. But sometimes people associate their suggestions with their beings. Thats not my problem. 

 

Its getting overrated seeing these stupid, over the top, reaching for the star suggestions about Fitz yet when someone brings up a valid point/question those same Fitz supports will respond with "its because you like Geno" then proceed to do math on Geno, completely sidestepping what was just asked. 

 

I dont do that. Someone asks me a question about Fitz, I rebuttal that he loses 92% of the time when a team scores 21pts or more. Someone brings up the point about Geno, I respond with what Geno had around him as a coaching staff (terrible) talent (which is a fraction of what this team currently is) and the fact that he's still on a rookie contract which means that he's still a young developing QB. Not an 11 year vet that still melts down with the playoffs on the line. 

 

Stay on topic and quit it with the teenager sensitivity crap. 

LOL...well, that pretty much answers my question about acting like an adult or not.

It's not that I'm sensitive at all, I just prefer respectful exchanges on here but that's just me.

 

[Villain The Foe]

2 minutes ago, Jet Nut said:

Why not take that 12 mil and use it towards another player where we get more bang for the buck over what little, if any, benefit we get over another QB?

How about using that 12 mil towards Mo's contract?  You know, someone who is actually worth what he wants 

^^^^^

Why pay Ryan Fitzpatrick 12 million for one year of play and not resign Wilk? Now I never been a fan of paying Wilk Watt-type money. But if I had to decide between locking up Wilk to Watt money or giving 12 Million to Fitzpatrick, im giving that money to Wilk for the next 4-5 years and take my chances with Geno. 

The first thing any defense will do is play the short to intermediate game. Fitz cant stretch a field at all, and his only true weapon is play design which is a credit of our OC. 

[Villain The Foe]

5 minutes ago, ljr said:

You accept the fact that Geno was meant to be the starter in 2015

i believe once Fitz was able to play after recovering from the broken foot Mac would have decided on him to start.

A persons view on those options will be based on how they judge Geno.

 

I accept that fact because Bowles made Geno the starter. 

 

You accept the fact that this may have changed....but in reality thats not what occurred. 

My view on this is based on what the Jets are actually doing, not what their saying. For example: "We want Fitz back (talk)". Reality: "They havent spoken to Fitz in weeks and have not made any moves to free up any money. They drafted a QB in the 2nd and named Geno the Starter (doing)". 

[AFJF]

48 minutes ago, ljr said:

You accept the fact that Geno was meant to be the starter in 2015

i believe once Fitz was able to play after recovering from the broken foot Mac would have decided on him to start.

A persons view on those options will be based on how they judge Geno.

 

I think we had our answer once Fitz started weeks 3-17 before being named the starter again next year, but right...Geno is the better QB. 

[Warfish]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

Why not take that 12 mil and use it towards another player where we get more bang for the buck over what little, if any, benefit we get over another QB?

Presumes you're correct in your analysis of Geno Smith, and that he will be as good or better than Fitz was last year.

The reason to put the money into Fitz is that some of us strongly disagree with your presumption, and believe Smith will be markedly inferior to 2015 Fitzpatrick.

Although again, I think most fans who prefer Fitz and loathe the idea of Geno still feel there is a <12mil/year solution to this issue.

[ljr]

4 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

I accept that fact because Bowles made Geno the starter. 

 

You accept the fact that this may have changed....but in reality thats not what occurred. 

My view on this is based on what the Jets are actually doing, not what their saying. For example: "We want Fitz back (talk)". Reality: "They havent spoken to Fitz in weeks and have not made any moves to free up any money. They drafted a QB in the 2nd and named Geno the Starter (doing)". 

Don't believe he was officially named starter while Fitz was able to play ... But that doesn't matter ... As you say, what the FO does is much more important than what they say.

what they did was have Fitz the starter & Geno on the bench .. Through thick & thin! (Can you accept that this is what they actually did?)

[Villain The Foe]

2 minutes ago, ljr said:

Don't believe he was officially named starter while Fitz was able to play ... But that doesn't matter ... As you say, what the FO does is much more important than what they say.

what they did was have Fitz the starter & Geno on the bench .. Through thick & thin! (Can you accept that this is what they actually did?)

Today? Oh. lol

[Jet Nut]

8 hours ago, Warfish said:

Presumes you're correct in your analysis of Geno Smith, and that he will be as good or better than Fitz was last year.

The reason to put the money into Fitz is that some of us strongly disagree with your presumption, and believe Smith will be markedly inferior to 2015 Fitzpatrick.

Although again, I think most fans who prefer Fitz and loathe the idea of Geno still feel there is a <12mil/year solution to this issue.

Start with missing my analysis.  I never said Geno would be as good or better than Fitz.  I said that there isn't enough of a difference to make up for the 10-12 mil Fitz wants to play for the Jets.  Huge difference.  

It's like all the Fitz talk that presumes Fitz will be able to duplicate what he accomplished once in his career.  I tend to agree with Polian who thinks Fitz had a career year and weak armed QBs in their 30's fade fast and hard.  He could be wrong.  But this  is a HOF GM, personnel guy talking.  Has to be considered.  

That said, I'm not against signing Fitz, but at our price.  If not I don't think we'll lose enough to make up for the crazy money he's looking for.  If there's a <12 mil solution, Fitz needs to back off and take it.

  

[BrickzNY]

I'm not touching Fitzpatrick for anything more than 8 mil. In reality he's always been garbage and everything he did right last year was thrown out the window in the last Buffalo game where he choked like he always has. I rather sign Wilkerson long term, see what we have in these young QBs and finally find a franchise QB and stop with these garbage journeymen.

Sent from my SM-G935T using Tapatalk

[ljr]

3 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Start with missing my analysis.  I never said Geno would be as good or better than Fitz.  I said that there isn't enough of a difference to make up for the 10-12 mil Fitz wants to play for the Jets.  Huge difference.  

It's like all the Fitz talk that presumes Fitz will be able to duplicate what he accomplished once in his career.  I tend to agree with Polian who thinks Fitz had a career year and weak armed QBs in their 30's fade fast and hard.  He could be wrong.  But this  is a HOF GM, personnel guy talking.  Has to be considered.  

That said, I'm not against signing Fitz, but at our price.  If not I don't think we'll lose enough to make up for the crazy money he's looking for.  If there's a <12 mil solution, Fitz needs to back off and take it.

  

How many games better do you think we finish 2016 with Fitz at QB instead of Geno?

i'd say probably 4 ... And definitely 2 .  JMO.  (Where do you weigh in?)

[Snell41]

Fitz tested the market and got nothing. Nothing. Not because he's old and would have to learn a new scheme. That's nonsense, old QBs get cut and singed to start for teams all the time. It's because he's old, have to learn scheme, and teams just don't think he's that good.

For that reason alone Fitz is only worth slightly more than a very good backup. He had no other offers. His only leverage is retirement. You pay him market value based on demand. What he did or might do for the team is irrelevant. The argument of whether people think he'll succeed or not is irrelevant. You do not hand w guy millions more than the market bears for that players services "just because". That goes against all principles of Free Agrncy. That's sh*t the Raiders used to do when they sucked balls.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[SoFlaJets]

On 5/21/2016 at 8:56 AM, ljr said:

Why would you shorten the word locker room ???? Lol

Well it's actually a long story...Once upon a time on a Jets Message Board far, far, away there was a place called Jets Insider. Now Jets Insider was owned and operated by the same person who started up The International House Of Pancakes and the day to day operations were ruled with an iron fist by another culinary expert/terrorist who created a dish called Green Eggs and ham. Now having had so much power and pancake powder crammed into his nasal passages for all of those years, well let's just say it sort of made him even more power (and pancake) hungry. After that happened there were two Mariel-like boat-lifts of refugees and on a pilgrimage to try and find another island to crash their boats onto-that's when this first group discovered JetNation an island that was pretty much safer, as long as you had a slab of bacon and let's just say it didn't "hurt" if you happened to be in possession of some bacon grease. So these pilgrims all decided that they would shorten their names and some even changed them or shortened them all in an effort as to not be found by the tyrant GJ&H. 

One day a pirate ship landed on Insiders Island and coerced the owner of The IHofP with a treasure chest filled with trinkets and jewels tabs of butter and bottles of the best Maple syrup that money could buy and they sold the tropical paradise to the pirates and told the remaining tenants that they could join up and set sail with these new desperados and take their chances there, or construct rafts and follow their earlier brethren over to the not quite as dangerous (after the initiation period) JN. So that's what many of them decided to do.

Now you asked me why shorten the words Locker Room to LR. well there was this member at the original Insider who went by the name of another in a long line of Jets' draft busts, that players' name you ask? Lamont Jordan "L j R". Now you may remember the Three Stooges bit "Niagara Falls"....well this displaced and disillusioned former member of the JI group (who thought that he had a place to rest his weary head upon until the team finally displaces the hated Patriots at the top of the football world) would react in a similar fashion any time words that started with the letters 'L' and 'R' were spoken and as his mania grew-written...to be continued

[Tinstar]

The thing I find interesting about this Heimerdinger cat with regard to player acquisition is interesting . He came to the Jets from Chicago who had Marshall, Forte and Bennett all on their offensive unit . The Jets moved quickly to acquire Marshall and Forte, but with the desperate need for a TE, Bennett  wasn't a consideration ?  What does this tell us about Bennett ?  

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

7 hours ago, ljr said:

How many games better do you think we finish 2016 with Fitz at QB instead of Geno?

i'd say probably 4 ... And definitely 2 .  JMO.  (Where do you weigh in?)

4 is a lot. 2 is a lot. Of the six wins we picked up last year, half can be chalked up to normal variance and probably about half the rest to Fitzpatrick. 1.5 seems reasonable. Still a lot.

[jetrider]

10 hours ago, ljr said:

How many games better do you think we finish 2016 with Fitz at QB instead of Geno?

i'd say probably 4 ... And definitely 2 .  JMO.  (Where do you weigh in?)

That's because you blindly convinced yourself Fitz will always do better than Geno by comparing Geno's stint with Mornhinweg/Rex/Idzik to Fitz's career best with Gailey/Bowles/Maccagnan and a schedule that was butter.

If you're gonna use Fitz's best then you gotta use Geno's best. Let's say Geno goes 8-8 again. That's a break even .500 - not a winner, not a loser.

At his current 2016 price tag of $1,597,146 that translates to $199,643.25 per win.

If Fitz duplicates his 'miracle' season, his 10 wins at Geno's starter salary would be worth $1,996,432.50 total or call it $2M.

Twelve wins equals $2.4M. Sixteen equals $3.2M.

How much money is this prima donna career backup holding the Jets ransom for?

 

[Jet Nut]

12 hours ago, ljr said:

How many games better do you think we finish 2016 with Fitz at QB instead of Geno?

i'd say probably 4 ... And definitely 2 .  JMO.  (Where do you weigh in?)

Maybe two.  Don't think four, think that's too much.  Of course it's hard to prove either way.  Don't think we're a contender with either at QB though so to waste 10 mil just to wind up pretty much in the same boat seems pointless.  

[ljr]

9 hours ago, SoFlaJets said:

Well it's actually a long story...Once upon a time on a Jets Message Board far, far, away there was a place called Jets Insider. Now Jets Insider was owned and operated by the same person who started up The International House Of Pancakes and the day to day operations were ruled with an iron fist by another culinary expert/terrorist who created a dish called Green Eggs and ham. Now having had so much power and pancake powder crammed into his nasal passages for all of those years, well let's just say it sort of made him even more power (and pancake) hungry. After that happened there were two Mariel-like boat-lifts of refugees and on a pilgrimage to try and find another island to crash their boats onto-that's when this first group discovered JetNation an island that was pretty much safer, as long as you had a slab of bacon and let's just say it didn't "hurt" if you happened to be in possession of some bacon grease. So these pilgrims all decided that they would shorten their names and some even changed them or shortened them all in an effort as to not be found by the tyrant GJ&H. 

One day a pirate ship landed on Insiders Island and coerced the owner of The IHofP with a treasure chest filled with trinkets and jewels tabs of butter and bottles of the best Maple syrup that money could buy and they sold the tropical paradise to the pirates and told the remaining tenants that they could join up and set sail with these new desperados and take their chances there, or construct rafts and follow their earlier brethren over to the not quite as dangerous (after the initiation period) JN. So that's what many of them decided to do.

Now you asked me why shorten the words Locker Room to LR. well there was this member at the original Insider who went by the name of another in a long line of Jets' draft busts, that players' name you ask? Lamont Jordan "L j R". Now you may remember the Three Stooges bit "Niagara Falls"....well this displaced and disillusioned former member of the JI group (who thought that he had a place to rest his weary head upon until the team finally displaces the hated Patriots at the top of the football world) would react in a similar fashion any time words that started with the letters 'L' and 'R' were spoken and as his mania grew-written...to be continued

???????

 

best post ever!

[ljr]

5 hours ago, jetrider said:

That's because you blindly convinced yourself Fitz will always do better than Geno by comparing Geno's stint with Mornhinweg/Rex/Idzik to Fitz's career best with Gailey/Bowles/Maccagnan and a schedule that was butter.

If you're gonna use Fitz's best then you gotta use Geno's best. Let's say Geno goes 8-8 again. That's a break even .500 - not a winner, not a loser.

At his current 2016 price tag of $1,597,146 that translates to $199,643.25 per win.

If Fitz duplicates his 'miracle' season, his 10 wins at Geno's starter salary would be worth $1,996,432.50 total or call it $2M.

Twelve wins equals $2.4M. Sixteen equals $3.2M.

How much money is this prima donna career backup holding the Jets ransom for?

 

So what would your answer be to my question?

[jetrider]

41 minutes ago, ljr said:

So what would your answer be to my question?

Your last question? How many games Jets finish better with Fitz?

Geno got the job when Sanchez got hurt. Fitz got the job when Geno got hurt. I think this year more whammy voodoo happens.

I think Hackenberg takes over when Geno tweaks an ankle at Pittsburgh. Fitz is on IR after blowing out a shoulder at Buffalo Week 2 with one win and a bloated contract.

Geno returns for Miami Week 9 and wins 7 games to finish 10-6 and clinch a berth.

 

[ljr]

3 minutes ago, jetrider said:

Your last question? How many games Jets finish better with Fitz?

Geno got the job when Sanchez got hurt. Fitz got the job when Geno got hurt. I think this year more whammy voodoo happens.

I think Hackenberg takes over when Geno tweaks an ankle at Pittsburgh. Fitz is on IR after blowing out a shoulder at Buffalo Week 2 with one win and a bloated contract.

Geno returns for Miami Week 9 and wins 8 straight games to finish 10-6 and clinch a berth.

 

Lololololoolololol ... It's like having a discussion with my wife.

let me rephrase it to hopefully make it easy for you to answer simply.

 

"In the hypothetical world that either Geno or Fitz would be our 2016 starting QB for the entire 16 games & everything else remains equal ... Which of these 2 do you believe would win more games & how many fewer games do you believe the other choice would win?"

[jetrider]

26 minutes ago, ljr said:

Lololololoolololol ... It's like having a discussion with my wife.

let me rephrase it to hopefully make it easy for you to answer simply.

 

"In the hypothetical world that either Geno or Fitz would be our 2016 starting QB for the entire 16 games & everything else remains equal ... Which of these 2 do you believe would win more games & how many fewer games do you believe the other choice would win?"

I already answered. Maybe your wife can figure it out for you.