Casserly Covering his Tracks

[NYJCAP2]

New York market can be great when winning. No playoffs in 6 years. No place to go but up really. Can gut the roster rather easily and shape it the way you want to. There are no untouchable players here right now. Those are all positives. 

Any place is great if you're winning. The only positive is shaping the roster and that job belongs to MacCagnan. None of what you said sells me if I'm a coach and the burdens far out weigh any others you can bring forth.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RSJ]

Just now, NYJCAP2 said:

Any place is great if you're winning. The only positive is shaping the roster and that job belongs to MacCagnan. None of what you said sells me if I'm a coach and the burdens far out weigh any others you can bring forth.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Many more endorsement deals and opportunities in NY area. Mac shaping the roster is the same issue whether the previous coach was here two years or 50 years.

[Beerfish]

1 hour ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

I think Casserly is right. It's to early to pull the plug on Bowles. If the team was awful last year as well I'd be more open to doing it after 2 years.

But I have to see if Bowles can learn from the mistakes made this off season and this year and fix this mess.

I just believe that you'll never know what you have if you fire somebody at the first sign things aren't going well. This season was a huge disappointment. But I want to see if Maac and Bowles can fix it.

This off season will tell us every thing we need to know about both of them, mostly Mac and by the end of next year we will know about Bowles.  As you mentioned the key is to see if they learn from mistakes this year.  If they don't then No reason to hang on to them.  Much like my feelings on Rex, he showed he has about 1/2 of the attributes to be a good head coach but he never even tried to get better at his weak points.

[ScarletKnight89]

3 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

This off season will tell us every thing we need to know about both of them, mostly Mac and by the end of next year we will know about Bowles.  As you mentioned the key is to see if they learn from mistakes this year.  If they don't then No reason to hang on to them.  Much like my feelings on Rex, he showed he has about 1/2 of the attributes to be a good head coach but he never even tried to get better at his weak points.

Agreed.

I really want to see if they can learn. When you sign a HC and GM who are in their new roles for the first time in their careers I think it's just important to give them some time. 3 years I think is fair.

I get why people want Bowles and Maac gone, it's very frustrating watching the team get beat up every week. But people have to realize that their isn't anything they can do now that the season is underway. The team is what the team is. Maac and Bowles overrated some key areas of the team like the secondary and O-Line and were hoping they could get another good year out of Fitz. All 3 failed them. But I wanna see if they can make the fixes.

[NYJCAP2]

This off season will tell us every thing we need to know about both of them, mostly Mac and by the end of next year we will know about Bowles.  As you mentioned the key is to see if they learn from mistakes this year.  If they don't then No reason to hang on to them.  Much like my feelings on Rex, he showed he has about 1/2 of the attributes to be a good head coach but he never even tried to get better at his weak points.

Beer I'm with but you say that with a sound mind, remember if this team goes 7-9 to no large fault of Bowles next year, the banners will be flying over the stadium.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[joewilly12]

23 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

This off season will tell us every thing we need to know about both of them, mostly Mac and by the end of next year we will know about Bowles.  As you mentioned the key is to see if they learn from mistakes this year.  If they don't then No reason to hang on to them.  Much like my feelings on Rex, he showed he has about 1/2 of the attributes to be a good head coach but he never even tried to get better at his weak points.

Todd Bowles hasn't earned another chance his coaching is horrendous his pressers are Jekyl and Hyde changing each day this man is way  in over his head. 

[Beerfish]

1 minute ago, NYJCAP2 said:

 

Beer I'm with but you say that with a sound mind, remember if this team goes 7-9 to no large fault of Bowles next year, the banners will be flying over the stadium.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

No doubt but for me records are never Independent of actually what is happening on a team and what you should be doing.

If the Jets go 7-9 next year and have cleaned house of most of the lazy, dumb ass deadwood, are in a true rebuild and Bowles cleans up some of his dumb stuff I'll be happy enough.

 

If the Jets go 7-9 and do not go total rebuild I'll be pissed and see that record for what it is.

 

It's like last rex 8-8 year which was a total aberration.  The team was getting destroyed in their loses and won a couple of games on dumb luck, they were a lousy 8-8 team with a lousy coach trending downward, people did not see if for what it was.

[Beerfish]

3 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Todd Bowles hasn't earned another chance his coaching is horrendous his pressers are Jekyl and Hyde changing each day this man is way  in over his head. 

You should know by now that earned has nothing to do with it.  I know that Bowles has replaced Fitz for you and you will post nothing but anti bowles crap for the next 9 months making off season a horror show but you better look at the team as if he is indeed going to be here because he is not getting fired yet.

[joewilly12]

8 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

You should know by now that earned has nothing to do with it.  I know that Bowles has replaced Fitz for you and you will post nothing but anti bowles crap for the next 9 months making off season a horror show but you better look at the team as if he is indeed going to be here because he is not getting fired yet.

The fact is Todd Bowles is a terrible head coach we are one of the worst teams in the NFL because of him. 

What I post is my business and my opinion of the Jets. 

The circus left town when Rex was fired only to return with Bowles I've had enough of slacker head coaches. 

 

[SAR I]

3 hours ago, NYJCAP2 said:

Players quit for sure, but that number is not accurate. That aside, the talent we have has never won anything, why must we be so beholden to them? It must go both ways. Bowles coached and players played to 10-6 last year and this year was a bomb job, which I know you and myself saw coming, but others expected 12-4 and a deep playoff run. Expectations must be tempered and a macro approach taken. Fanatics want to fire a coach because of a punt call during a losing season. If I'm a coach, you have to earn the right from me if you want to go for it in situations like that, show me you can handle the details. They had been playing like dog meat, what would you expect for me to do? Now we must run this guy out of town, it's pathetic.

Since it took about 10 years to build the roster as it's construed, it's a far better risk to bring in a new head coach and see if they would respond to him as opposed to keep the current head coach and nuke the roster.

We have enough young talent on D and certain positions on O to become competitive if they respond to a more experienced and respected head coach.  If someone can get Mo Wilkerson, Sheldon Richardson, Quincy Enunwa, Calvin Pryor, etc. to play with passion and focus again that puts us light years ahead of having to find their replacements simply because they don't respond to Bowles.

SAR I

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, SAR I said:

Since it took about 10 years to build the roster as it's construed, it's a far better risk to bring in a new head coach and see if they would respond to him as opposed to keep the current head coach and nuke the roster.

We have enough young talent on D and certain positions on O to become competitive if they respond to a more experienced and respected head coach.  If someone can get Mo Wilkerson, Sheldon Richardson, Quincy Enunwa, Calvin Pryor, etc. to play with passion and focus again that puts us light years ahead of having to find their replacements simply because they don't respond to Bowles.

SAR I

Great post and I agree 110% with SAR I 

[SAR I]

2 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

2015 Ryan Fitzpatrick good quarterback 2016 Ryan Fitzpatrick weak quarterback? 

Absolutely.

He threw 31 touchdowns last year.  Same as Aaron Rodgers, only 4 less than Cam Newton, only 5 fewer than Tom Brady.

Good quarterback.  Best quarterback play we've seen in New York since 1998.

You should use the internet.  It's pretty cool.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj/single-season-passing.htm

SAR I

[SAR I]

2 hours ago, drsamuel84 said:

Agreed, I think he's done a decent job of trying to implement a "competitive rebuild"  the problem becomes replacing the Deckers, Marshall's, Forte's and Mangold's next year and from a drafting perspective the jury is still out.  Not ready to fire the guy but next year will be huge for this FO and I don't even mean from a record standpoint but moreso from a player development standpoint

I don't see why we need to lose any of those 4 players.  If we pick up an experienced quarterback, say a Romo or a Cutler or a Bridgewater, we can be downright scary on offense with Enunwa, Powell, Decker, Forte, Marshall, Mangold, etc.

Let me remind you that if Ryan Fitzpatrick played like he did last year and Decker didn't get hurt, we'd be headed for a 9-7 season right now.  Not good enough to make the playoffs, but not bad enough to blow up.

SAR I

[joewilly12]

1 minute ago, SAR I said:

Absolutely.

He threw 31 touchdowns last year.  Same as Aaron Rodgers, only 4 less than Cam Newton, only 5 fewer than Tom Brady.

Good quarterback.  Best quarterback play we've seen in New York since 1998.

You should use the internet.  It's pretty cool.

http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/nyj/single-season-passing.htm

SAR I

So basically according to you he went from good QB to bad QB. 

This is why MANY OF US tried to tell all you Fitzpatrick supporters this was going to happen. 

6 teams in 12 years a weak armed gypsy journeyman who never made the playoffs. 

As far as I'm concerned he's been a bad QB his entire NFL career. 

[SAR I]

10 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

Great post and I agree 110% with SAR I 

Exactly.

The only way you hold onto Bowles and destroy the roster to build around him is if you think Bowles is going to be a world-class head coach.

There is no suggestion that he would be, so this is no different than quarterback or running back-  after 2 seasons they either flash or they don't and they're either resigned or cut and Bowles has not flashed at all.

SAR I

[Beerfish]

13 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Since it took about 10 years to build the roster as it's construed, it's a far better risk to bring in a new head coach and see if they would respond to him as opposed to keep the current head coach and nuke the roster.

We have enough young talent on D and certain positions on O to become competitive if they respond to a more experienced and respected head coach.  If someone can get Mo Wilkerson, Sheldon Richardson, Quincy Enunwa, Calvin Pryor, etc. to play with passion and focus again that puts us light years ahead of having to find their replacements simply because they don't respond to Bowles.

SAR I

The problem is that the team is built poorly as it is  Interior Dlineman are so less valuable than a dominant edge rusher it is not even close and we have 3 interior guys.  A guy like Richardson is a problem and will be for any coach, he has shown what he is like since he has been here.  Both he and Wilks one desire was/is to get paid. Enunwa is already a good, pryor is simply not that good.

We have secondary that is in tatters, an oline that needs a total rebuild and no QB at all.  The team needs to be torn down and totally rebuilt.

Hey if they fired Bowles tomorrow I would not be upset at all but any new coach will face the same hard realities, this team is not close to doing anything at all.

[SAR I]

4 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

So basically according to you he went from good QB to bad QB. 

This is why MANY OF US tried to tell all you Fitzpatrick supporters this was going to happen. 

6 teams in 12 years a weak armed gypsy journeyman who never made the playoffs. 

As far as I'm concerned he's been a bad QB his entire NFL career. 

First, I am NOT a Ryan Fitzpatrick supporter.  I was ambivalent if we resigned him or just let Petty get the reins.  What I didn't want was Geno Smith.  Whether Fitz or Petty or Hack didn't matter to me so long as Glassjaw wasn't under center.

Next, NO ONE IS SURPRISED that Fitzpatrick is an up and down performer.  He's on his 6th team in 11 years for a reason.

Lastly, he had a great season last year, 31 TD's and 15 INT's is stellar by Jets standards, and it's the reason why we won 10 games.  This year with a  hard schedule and eroding skills of a 34 year old journeyman, he's contributed to our lousy record.  This ain't rocket science.

SAR I

[Beerfish]

Just now, SAR I said:

Exactly.

The only way you hold onto Bowles and destroy the roster to build around him is if you think Bowles is going to be a world-class head coach.

There is no suggestion that he would be, so this is no different than quarterback or running back-  after 2 seasons they either flash or they don't and they're either resigned or cut and Bowles has not flashed at all.

SAR I

Destroy the roster?  What does this mean?  Our roster clearly sucks.  Our 'skilled' guys you do not want to get rid of are lazy malcontents.  Our Rb is old and not a huge factor, our WR vets played poorly this year.  The oline is in need of a big rebuild, our secondary might be the worst in football.

Sure bring in a new coach and sure, best case scenario he gets the slouchs to play better but this team is still so full of holes you are back to spinning your wheels.  Or hey they might get really lucky and like many of our other coaches over achieve and win 9 or 10 games.

No QB at all.

Oline on the down side

Porous secondary

2 out of our 3 high profile dlineman are total dogs

Unproven young WR prospects

No youth at RB

No tight ends

This team has young promising backers and that is about it.

We could hire a new guy, he could do what bowles did last year and we will be back to where we are now in a few years.

fire bowles?  By all means the sooner the better, have any illusion that the team will be great once he is gone?  Fantasy, just like the fantasy of blaming Fitz for all the teams ills.

[SAR I]

5 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

The problem is that the team is built poorly as it is  Interior Dlineman are so less valuable than a dominant edge rusher it is not even close and we have 3 interior guys.  A guy like Richardson is a problem and will be for any coach, he has shown what he is like since he has been here.  Both he and Wilks one desire was/is to get paid. Enunwa is already a good, pryor is simply not that good.

We have secondary that is in tatters, an oline that needs a total rebuild and no QB at all.  The team needs to be torn down and totally rebuilt.

Hey if they fired Bowles tomorrow I would not be upset at all but any new coach will face the same hard realities, this team is not close to doing anything at all.

Good points, but in the end we aren't going to get some gold star replacement head coach with gobs of experience, we simply don't have the talent on the roster to attract a premium head coach.

So just like we do at QB, we're going to roll the dice on another up and coming coordinator, give him 2 years, and keep moving on if we don't.  There is nothing that tells a bone in my body that Todd Bowles is the next Bill Belichick, a guy who failed in his first job and was masterful in his second.  The guys who might fit that bill-  say Josh McDaniels for example-  would never come here.  Second chance head coaches go to teams that already have established front offices, already have established quarterbacks.  Think Dan Reeves going to the Giants, think Bill Belichick going to the Patriots, think John Fox going to the Broncos, etc.

SAR I

[SAR I]

5 minutes ago, Beerfish said:

Destroy the roster?  What does this mean?  Our roster clearly sucks.  Our 'skilled' guys you do not want to get rid of are lazy malcontents.  Our Rb is old and not a huge factor, our WR vets played poorly this year.  The oline is in need of a big rebuild, our secondary might be the worst in football.

Sure bring in a new coach and sure, best case scenario he gets the slouchs to play better but this team is still so full of holes you are back to spinning your wheels.  Or hey they might get really lucky and like many of our other coaches over achieve and win 9 or 10 games.

No QB at all.

Oline on the down side

Porous secondary

2 out of our 3 high profile dlineman are total dogs

Unproven young WR prospects

No youth at RB

No tight ends

This team has young promising backers and that is about it.

We could hire a new guy, he could do what bowles did last year and we will be back to where we are now in a few years.

fire bowles?  By all means the sooner the better, have any illusion that the team will be great once he is gone?  Fantasy, just like the fantasy of blaming Fitz for all the teams ills.

It took me a day to calm down after the Indianapolis fiasco.

I could list all the names, but we have enough talent on O and D to be competitive during a rebuild and under the right head coach that the players respond to we might actually thrive.

Bill Belichick and the NEP coaching staff could win 11 games with this roster.  We have a cultural problem brought on by the wrong head coach and a brutal schedule under a journeyman quarterback.  This can be corrected with a new coaching staff.  We don't need to overreact and cut players.  Last year we adored Sheldon Richardson.  This year he is a dog.  Find the reason, restore the passion, save the player.  Multiply this by 52, goes a long way.

SAR I

[rangerous]

35 minutes ago, SAR I said:

Since it took about 10 years to build the roster as it's construed, it's a far better risk to bring in a new head coach and see if they would respond to him as opposed to keep the current head coach and nuke the roster.

We have enough young talent on D and certain positions on O to become competitive if they respond to a more experienced and respected head coach.  If someone can get Mo Wilkerson, Sheldon Richardson, Quincy Enunwa, Calvin Pryor, etc. to play with passion and focus again that puts us light years ahead of having to find their replacements simply because they don't respond to Bowles.

SAR I

here's the thing, it isn't just about monday night.  it's the whole season.  i remember when a couple of seasons back when richie incognito got tagged for bllying on the doltfins.  philbin was just so mamby pamby about the whole scene that it was plenty clear he wasn't taking that team anywhere.  he lasted one more season before getting launched.  it's the same thing with the jets and bowles.  things have regressed too far to give anyone confidence that he will be able to turn things around for next season and beyond.  and this is in spite of not having good talent at key positions.  this team just flat out blows coverage assignments left and right.  they get a lot of penalties. this is all on coaching.

[SAR I]

11 minutes ago, rangerous said:

here's the thing, it isn't just about monday night.  it's the whole season.  i remember when a couple of seasons back when richie incognito got tagged for bllying on the doltfins.  philbin was just so mamby pamby about the whole scene that it was plenty clear he wasn't taking that team anywhere.  he lasted one more season before getting launched.  it's the same thing with the jets and bowles.  things have regressed too far to give anyone confidence that he will be able to turn things around for next season and beyond.  and this is in spite of not having good talent at key positions.  this team just flat out blows coverage assignments left and right.  they get a lot of penalties. this is all on coaching.

I think we're on the same page here.

While not a solid playoff team by any stretch, our problem is motivation/discipline and not raw ability/talent.

So it's the head coach that needs to go, not a roster housecleaning.

SAR I

[NYJ37/12]

14 minutes ago, SAR I said:

I think we're on the same page here.

While not a solid playoff team by any stretch, our problem is motivation/discipline and not raw ability/talent.

So it's the head coach that needs to go, not a roster housecleaning.

SAR I

The rookie coach hall of shame is growing....

No coach can recover from that loss on Monday. Rex had a similar loss against Buffalo in Detroit.

[section314]

14 minutes ago, SAR I said:

I think we're on the same page here.

While not a solid playoff team by any stretch, our problem is motivation/discipline and not raw ability/talent.

So it's the head coach that needs to go, not a roster housecleaning.

SAR I

Then for God's sake, let the GM pick the coach, have the coach report to the GM, and not let each one have their own secret door to the principal's office. 

[Shadetree]

This is so sad. I pretty much agree with sh*t-canning Bowles, yet I continue to hope the HC turnover stops. I can't even fight for/against with you guys with any type of passion anymore. 

it will never stop. 

It will never. Ever. Stop. 

This team has taken more time off the top of my life than I care to know. 

**** this team.

**** em all. 

 

[SAR I]

32 minutes ago, NYJ37/12 said:

The rookie coach hall of shame is growing....

No coach can recover from that loss on Monday. Rex had a similar loss against Buffalo in Detroit.

Sad, but true.

SAR I

[SAR I]

32 minutes ago, section314 said:

Then for God's sake, let the GM pick the coach, have the coach report to the GM, and not let each one have their own secret door to the principal's office. 

I don't really care who picks the head coach as long as it's someone on the offensive side of the ball, preferably a good quarterback coach, and someone who can relate to spoiled players.  Prior head coaching experience is a plus.

SAR I

[RSJ]

51 minutes ago, SAR I said:

I think we're on the same page here.

While not a solid playoff team by any stretch, our problem is motivation/discipline and not raw ability/talent.

So it's the head coach that needs to go, not a roster housecleaning.

SAR I

I agree. A roster cleaning would turn this into a 5 year project. There is no reason for this, If they get the right head coach they could be in the playoffs next year.

[NYJCAP2]

Since it took about 10 years to build the roster as it's construed, it's a far better risk to bring in a new head coach and see if they would respond to him as opposed to keep the current head coach and nuke the roster.
We have enough young talent on D and certain positions on O to become competitive if they respond to a more experienced and respected head coach.  If someone can get Mo Wilkerson, Sheldon Richardson, Quincy Enunwa, Calvin Pryor, etc. to play with passion and focus again that puts us light years ahead of having to find their replacements simply because they don't respond to Bowles.
SAR I

You have made many enticing arguments, this is not one of them. Wilk is established, earned a big contract, been around, if he quits that's on him. Time for him to step up.

SAR, you are established, earned everything you've got, you are at the point in your career where you are a self motivator and don't need a boss to ride you to get production. The pressure, motivation from bosses put you over the top, not get you going.

Sheldon is misguided and Pryor can't play.

Enunwa was has progressed nicely, he's a damn good player.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[RSJ]

1 minute ago, NYJCAP2 said:

 

You have made many enticing arguments, this is not one of them. Wilk is established, earned a big contract, been around, if he quits that's on him. Time for him to step up.

SAR, you are established, earned everything you've got, you are at the point in your career where you are a self motivator and don't need a boss to ride you to get production. The pressure, motivation from bosses put you over the top, not get you going.

Sheldon is misguided and Pryor can't play.

Enunwa was has progressed nicely, he's a damn good player.



Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

These players are not in a scheme that fits them. They know it and its why they put forth no effort. These guys aren't dumb. They know what they do well and what they don't do well.

[SAR I]

1 minute ago, RSJ said:

I agree. A roster cleaning would turn this into a 5 year project. There is no reason for this, If they get the right head coach they could be in the playoffs next year.

We agree on head coaching strategy, and I don't want to rain on your parade this close to Christmas, but next year's schedule is almost as bad as this years if you can believe it, we play the AFC West and the NFC South:

Home	Away
Kansas City Chiefs	Denver Broncos
San Diego Chargers	Oakland Raiders
Atlanta Falcons	New Orleans Saints
Carolina Panthers	Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Jacksonville Jaguars*	Cleveland Browns*
New England Patriots (Div.)	New England Patriots (Div.)
Miami Dolphins (Div.)	Miami Dolphins (Div.)
Buffalo Bills (Div.)	Buffalo Bills (Div.)

SAR I

[RSJ]

Just now, SAR I said:

We agree on head coaching strategy, and I don't want to rain on your parade this close to Christmas, but next year's schedule is almost as bad as this years if you can believe it, we play the AFC West and the NFC South:

Home	Away
Kansas City Chiefs	Denver Broncos
San Diego Chargers	Oakland Raiders
Atlanta Falcons	New Orleans Saints
Carolina Panthers	Tampa Bay Buccaneers
Jacksonville Jaguars*	Cleveland Browns*
New England Patriots (Div.)	New England Patriots (Div.)
Miami Dolphins (Div.)	Miami Dolphins (Div.)
Buffalo Bills (Div.)	Buffalo Bills (Div.)

SAR I

It looks daunting for sure - but a lot can happen in a year. Coaching changes, injuries, free agency, etc.

[SAR I]

4 minutes ago, NYJCAP2 said:

You have made many enticing arguments, this is not one of them. Wilk is established, earned a big contract, been around, if he quits that's on him. Time for him to step up.

SAR, you are established, earned everything you've got, you are at the point in your career where you are a self motivator and don't need a boss to ride you to get production. The pressure, motivation from bosses put you over the top, not get you going.

Sheldon is misguided and Pryor can't play.

Enunwa was has progressed nicely, he's a damn good player.

Wilk and Sheldon used to be dominant, I believe a new coach that they can relate to can restore them to greatness.

Pryor is out of position or out of scheme if you want to look at it that way, Enunwa can be even more effective if we have a new head coach who values the tight end as a passing option.

SAR I

[SAR I]

1 minute ago, RSJ said:

It looks daunting for sure - but a lot can happen in a year. Coaching changes, injuries, free agency, etc.

Yeah, the 12-4 guys told me that this August, told me that as a 7-9 guy I was being too pessimistic and giving too much credence to prior years performance.

SAR I

[RSJ]

Just now, SAR I said:

Yeah, the 12-4 guys told me that this August, told me that as a 7-9 guy I was being too pessimistic and giving too much credence to prior years performance.

SAR I

Yeah well you probably saw some of the coaching things before they unfolded. Where I made a mistake is just looking at the talent on the roster. I didn't realize that they were such bad scheme fits and the coaching was so inept that it wouldnt adapt.