Casserly Covering his Tracks

[Saul Goodman]

Our franchise is in the ****ed up situation that it is primarily because of Idzik's drafting.

Bowles and Maccagnan have put a terrible team out there this year (it's both of their faults) but I wouldn't make a change yet. A good draft in April and a decent QB addition, and the team could look a lot different next year. 

[RSJ]

4 hours ago, T0mShane said:

And even if you play the "rebuild" card (laughable after signing Fitzpatrick), there's still zero reason for a team to dog it. 

I agree and I said similar things last week. I don't think they buy into this system and I can't say I blame them. LB's on the Colts fastest WR's in week 14, multiple times? Blown coverage's every week of the year? 7 catches by a TE? The coaching has been nothing short of horrible. Not sure I would want to play in this system either.

[RSJ]

1 minute ago, Saul Goodman said:

Our franchise is in the ****ed up situation that it is primarily because of Idzik's drafting.

Bowles and Maccagnan have put a terrible team out there this year (it's both of their faults) but I wouldn't make a change yet. A good draft in April and a decent QB addition, and the team could look a lot different next year. 

You could get Patrick Peterson and Josh Norman this offseason and it's not going to fix this defense. The matchups and the way they are lining up their defenders is dumb.Pop Warner defenses are better coached.

[Jet Nut]

3 hours ago, Gangrene said:

What I don't like is Casserly took no ownership of his involvement before pronouncing that Bowles should not be fired. Clearly he is not objective.

Firing Bowles now says Casserly does not know anything about hiring a coach.

We have had two of the biggest bullsh*tting coaches in NFL history, Herm Edwards and Rex Ryan. We alternated with two idiot savants, Eric Mangini and Todd Bowles. Can we not hire somebody who can speak direct, in full sentences without going into nonsensical Herm/Rex hyperbole ?

 

Who cares if he takes ownership or not?  Why does it matter? 

Just because the guy was a great GM he had to be dead right making recommendations?  It's a guarantee? 

[SayNoToDMC]

4 hours ago, Gangrene said:

What I don't like is Casserly took no ownership of his involvement before pronouncing that Bowles should not be fired. Clearly he is not objective.

Firing Bowles now says Casserly does not know anything about hiring a coach.

We have had two of the biggest bullsh*tting coaches in NFL history, Herm Edwards and Rex Ryan. We alternated with two idiot savants, Eric Mangini and Todd Bowles. Can we not hire somebody who can speak direct, in full sentences without going into nonsensical Herm/Rex hyperbole ?

 

This is a dumpster fire, not a rebuild.

I'm either getting older and caring less about football or this team is just such an abortion they've drained me of my passion but I know I don't really care anymore. I changed the channel after the second Colts drive yesterday till I got an alert Petty was going in.

That list of coaches tells you everything. A bunch of cheaper rookie HC's and none of them offensive(from a football standpoint, not how I fell about them as people),. At least if they bring in an offensive guy we can maybe develop a QB or have watchable games.

[Shadetree]

5 hours ago, SAR I said:

You said the same thing about Rex Ryan and all it got us was 3 more years of wasted time.

SAR I

maybe...but I just want the turnover to stop. I think our talent is extremely lacking. I'd rather address that before we start over again....again.

[Adoni Beast]

When asked how he turned the Giants around from a 3-12-1 season into a contender, Parcells replied "cause I got rid of all those players who went 3-12-1."

Now I'm not saying this anecdote represents a need to keep Bowles. But, if Woody and Mac really believe Bowles is/was/will be the guy long term. You have stop the competitive rebuild and build up the right way. Then you fire if theres nothing. 

[JETdawg1389]

It always was a rebuild.

Credit to Mac for actually getting us a competitive roster. Vets for the now, rookies who have upside. And no long term dead money.

Shame we have a clueless head coach who can't coach up.

[Gangrene]

6 hours ago, Jet Nut said:

Who cares if he takes ownership or not?  Why does it matter? 

Just because the guy was a great GM he had to be dead right making recommendations?  It's a guarantee? 

Other than my loyalty to the Jets, I am a nihilist, so in truth nothing matters.

However, when I mess up, I take ownership. I could respect Casserly if he admitted that he was involved in the hiring process.

[BurnleyJet]

6 hours ago, Saul Goodman said:

Our franchise is in the ****ed up situation that it is primarily because of Idzik's drafting.

Bowles and Maccagnan have put a terrible team out there this year (it's both of their faults) but I wouldn't make a change yet. A good draft in April and a decent QB addition, and the team could look a lot different next year. 

Only if they don't mail it in. The assumption is that the team will play. Bowles team quit while the team was still on contention.

Bowles lost the team, that's a Big no, no in my book. Vets mailing it it before the half way mark tells me the Coach must go.

If he gets a 3rd year 2017 it's going to just be a waste. I'm not buying the 3rd year only fair BS. You can either coach or you can't, regardless how poor your roster is, this guy can't coach.

Since if he's does stay, he's going to be the dead duck Head Coach. (Play offs or bust). That not what you need on a rebuild. It's mean we sign Cutler was blow more time.

The only real positive is Woody is 70. How many more years will he own the Club?

[NYJCAP2]

First sign of adversity? Bowles sucks, but let's keep him because consistency.

Yes lets fire a coach every 2 years, all the top candidates will be lining up for sure.

Coaches like Gruden, Cowher, Shannahan never even give the Jets job a thought for a reason.


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[SAR I]

3 hours ago, Shadetree said:

maybe...but I just want the turnover to stop. I think our talent is extremely lacking. I'd rather address that before we start over again....again.

I don't disagree, but I've never seen a rookie head coach rebound from a season like this to become a 10-year long-term NFL head coach.

I get that plenty of rookie head coaches have had brutal seasons and then had success on the same team.  I'm talking about an entire team quitting like this.  No head coach has ever succeeded after this type of locker room apathy.  It's why Bowles has to go.  I wish he didn't, I don't like flipping head coaches like this either, but he's done.

SAR I

[SAR I]

48 minutes ago, NYJCAP2 said:

Yes lets fire a coach every 2 years, all the top candidates will be lining up for sure.

Coaches like Gruden, Cowher, Shannahan never even give the Jets job a thought for a reason.

It's not a valid excuse for keeping Bowles after 20 of our 22 starters have quit on him.

He might succeed somewhere else, but 2017 is right around the corner and this roster isn't going to perform for the man so he has to go.  We need to bring someone in here who will get the talent we have to perform at a high level.  That's the goal.

SAR I

[drsamuel84]

Don't misconstrue what I'm saying because Idzik was not a good a GM but the reality is he did have the right idea.  Completely break it down before building it back up, this competitive rebuild situations never work and all you do is find yourself fighting to be relevant year after year with no real long term strategy.  The only problem is Idzik couldn't scout talent if his life depended on it.  Macc's the GM so he does have to fall on the sword a bit but you wonder how much is coming from Woody, I'm sure he demanded a competitive team as soon as Macc and Bowles walked through the door and now we're paying for it in year 2 as these band aid guys get older and slower.

[NYJCAP2]

It's not a valid excuse for keeping Bowles after 20 of our 22 starters have quit on him.
He might succeed somewhere else, but 2017 is right around the corner and this roster isn't going to perform for the man so he has to go.  We need to bring someone in here who will get the talent we have to perform at a high level.  That's the goal.
SAR I

Players quit for sure, but that number is not accurate. That aside, the talent we have has never won anything, why must we be so beholden to them? It must go both ways. Bowles coached and players played to 10-6 last year and this year was a bomb job, which I know you and myself saw coming, but others expected 12-4 and a deep playoff run. Expectations must be tempered and a macro approach taken. Fanatics want to fire a coach because of a punt call during a losing season. If I'm a coach, you have to earn the right from me if you want to go for it in situations like that, show me you can handle the details. They had been playing like dog meat, what would you expect for me to do? Now we must run this guy out of town, it's pathetic.






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[NYJ37/12]

13 hours ago, Matt39 said:

So the rebuild includes signing washed up players.

It does when you're coming off several bad years and you need to put butts in the seats. The fastest way to do that is with big name free agents. It creates excitement with the fan base, as it did and gives them a chance at a winning first year, as it did.

 

The got stuck having to resign Fitz after his performance last year.

[ScarletKnight89]

I think Casserly is right. It's to early to pull the plug on Bowles. If the team was awful last year as well I'd be more open to doing it after 2 years.

But I have to see if Bowles can learn from the mistakes made this off season and this year and fix this mess.

I just believe that you'll never know what you have if you fire somebody at the first sign things aren't going well. This season was a huge disappointment. But I want to see if Maac and Bowles can fix it.

[SAR I]

3 minutes ago, drsamuel84 said:

Don't misconstrue what I'm saying because Idzik was not a good a GM but the reality is he did have the right idea.  Completely break it down before building it back up, this competitive rebuild situations never work and all you do is find yourself fighting to be relevant year after year with no real long term strategy.  The only problem is Idzik couldn't scout talent if his life depended on it.  Macc's the GM so he does have to fall on the sword a bit but you wonder how much is coming from Woody, I'm sure he demanded a competitive team as soon as Macc and Bowles walked through the door and now we're paying for it in year 2 as these band aid guys get older and slower.

What Maccagnan is trying to do, and I support this, is "rebuild on the fly".

Last year, with an easy schedule and a good quarterback, we won 10 games, it worked.  This year, with a hard schedule and a weak quarterback, it didn't work.  I can't say he's doing a bad job. 

If you look at his 2-year body of work, we'll have a record of 15-17, we're a .500 team, it's about what one would have expected after Idzik and Ryan killed us offensively.

SAR I

[joewilly12]

6 minutes ago, SAR I said:

What Maccagnan is trying to do, and I support this, is "rebuild on the fly".

Last year, with an easy schedule and a good quarterback, we won 10 games, it worked.  This year, with a hard schedule and a weak quarterback, it didn't work.  I can't say he's doing a bad job. 

If you look at his 2-year body of work, we'll have a record of 15-17, we're a .500 team, it's about what one would have expected after Idzik and Ryan killed us offensively.

SAR I

2015 Ryan Fitzpatrick good quarterback 2016 Ryan Fitzpatrick weak quarterback? 

[NYJCAP2]

2015 Ryan Fitzpatrick good quarterback 2016 Ryan Fitzpatrick weak quarterback? 

Where is the question?


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[rex-n-effect]

You look at what Bowles did in Arizona and what he has done here and it's night and day. He is clearly out of his depth. You see this in management a lot. Somebody is a good employee or good at selling themselves into jobs but then they get themselves one position too far and the house of cards collapses. They get really conservative with their decision-making and think they can just plod through until things get better. That's exactly what Bowles is doing here. A third year doesn't do anything different because he will just put his head down and plod through doing all the same things he did this year.

If Bowles tried some things and they didn't work I could at least understand it's a coach in his second year trying to get his footing against a tough schedule and deserves additional time. He isn't and he's surrounded himself with coordinators who are fine working in his lazy and conservative system.

[joewilly12]

Just now, NYJCAP2 said:

 

Where is the question?


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The question is the statement that was made by SAR I good QB/weak QB. 

[joewilly12]

Just now, rex-n-effect said:

You look at what Bowles did in Arizona and what he has done here and it's night and day. He is clearly out of his depth. You see this in management a lot. Somebody is a good employee or good at selling themselves into jobs but then they get themselves one position too far and the house of cards collapses. They get really conservative with their decision-making and think they can just plod through until things get better. That's exactly what Bowles is doing here. A third year doesn't do anything different because he will just put his head down and plod through doing all the same things he did this year.

If Bowles tried some things and they didn't work I could at least understand it's a coach in his second year trying to get his footing against a tough schedule and deserves additional time. He isn't and he's surrounded himself with coordinators who are fine working in his lazy and conservative system.

What exactly did he do in Arizona?  He was the assistant head coach by name. Do you know for sure Arians allowed him to do anything other than get him coffee. 

Please provide us some proof as to what he specifically did in Arizona and what his responsibilities were. 

[De-Jet-Erate/Duane]

11 hours ago, Shadetree said:

I'm really really down on Bowles, but I'm STILL leaning towards keeping the staff intact.

Ive had enough of the coaching merry go round w this franchise.

jack del rio is 10-2. It's not because he's a genius.

jeff fisher, IMO, is a good coach, yet he's had mediocre record for ages and there's an Eric Dickerson-led mutiny going on out west.

id rather let Mac continue to be the above average GM I consider him to be and hope Bowles can grow. 

If you keep Bowles he has to replace his pal DC and at least get some one on O who can groom and bring along the young Qb's.

[joewilly12]

Just now, De-Jet-Erate/Duane said:

If you keep Bowles he has to replace his pal DC and at least get some one on O who can groom and bring along the young Qb's.

Keeping Bowles accomplishes nothing. This team needs a real head coach. 

[68JET11]

Not time to get rid of Macc, but Bowles has to go. Even last year at 10-6 the man didn't know what he was doing out there. So many bad decisions. I would have said fine if he learned from them this year, but he's making the same ones over again. That's not a good sign.

Regarding Macc, None of us knows what he gets fed to him from Woody. He may have been told, not to rebuild from scratch, and bring in Vets last year to be competitive. What we need is a good Offensive minded HC, and draft OL. You win football games in the trenches that keeps your QB upright. It's been proven he doesn't have to be the best to win a SB, but he has to be protected.

[drsamuel84]

22 minutes ago, SAR I said:

What Maccagnan is trying to do, and I support this, is "rebuild on the fly".

Last year, with an easy schedule and a good quarterback, we won 10 games, it worked.  This year, with a hard schedule and a weak quarterback, it didn't work.  I can't say he's doing a bad job. 

If you look at his 2-year body of work, we'll have a record of 15-17, we're a .500 team, it's about what one would have expected after Idzik and Ryan killed us offensively.

SAR I

Agreed, I think he's done a decent job of trying to implement a "competitive rebuild"  the problem becomes replacing the Deckers, Marshall's, Forte's and Mangold's next year and from a drafting perspective the jury is still out.  Not ready to fire the guy but next year will be huge for this FO and I don't even mean from a record standpoint but moreso from a player development standpoint

[NYJCAP2]

Keeping Bowles accomplishes nothing. This team needs a real head coach. 

Real coaches want real opportunities, something we don't offer


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[joewilly12]

Just now, NYJCAP2 said:

 

Real coaches want real opportunities, something we don't offer


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32 job opportunities in the NFL for a head coaching position. 

Job opening, they will come. 

[#27TheDominator]

12 hours ago, joewilly12 said:

Casserly is a clueless old coot who still thinks the players wear leather helmets.

Is that what he has on his head?

[NYJCAP2]

32 job opportunities in the NFL for a head coaching position. 
Job opening, they will come. 

That's not what's happening anymore, REAL coaches, as you put it are very selective, they certainly will not choose a reactionary culture like the Jets. Thus, they end up with a rookie head coach, they wouldn't even be able to get a long time assistant at this point.


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[RSJ]

2 minutes ago, NYJCAP2 said:

 

That's not what's happening anymore, REAL coaches, as you put it are very selective, they certainly will not choose a reactionary culture like the Jets. Thus, they end up with a rookie head coach, they wouldn't even be able to get a long time assistant at this point.


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There is actually lots of upside to coaching the Jets too. I don't think they would have problems getting a good coach. I do think they possibly would have problems getting a good coordinator to come in and work for Bowles.

[NYJCAP2]

There is actually lots of upside to coaching the Jets too. I don't think they would have problems getting a good coach. I do think they possibly would have problems getting a good coordinator to come in and work for Bowles.

Lots of upside? If you elaborate I'll listen...


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[RSJ]

Just now, NYJCAP2 said:

Lots of upside? If you elaborate I'll listen...


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New York market can be great when winning. No playoffs in 6 years. No place to go but up really. Can gut the roster rather easily and shape it the way you want to. There are no untouchable players here right now. Those are all positives. 

[rex-n-effect]

56 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

What exactly did he do in Arizona?  He was the assistant head coach by name. Do you know for sure Arians allowed him to do anything other than get him coffee. 

Please provide us some proof as to what he specifically did in Arizona and what his responsibilities were. 

You're so desperate to find a reason to argue that you want me to defend a point I didn't make while completely ignoring that you agree with my point that Bowles has done a poor job here.