slats Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 This is true if the offense is actually doing what you described, which the Jets offense clearly did not last year. This is an interesting debate though. I wonder if the Jets defense agree's with you. Me thinks not. Me thinks they wish that the offense scored a bit more so they could actually make a push for the division one of these years. Last year's crap offense held the ball 30:49. In 2010, they held it 32:37 (3rd best in NFL). The offense is doing exactly what I described - including, unfortunately, not scoring many points so that opposing offenses don't need to score as many points. Of course the defense would prefer the offense score more. Pretty dumb brain statement right there. But they would suffer statistically if the Jets had a quick strike attack, and opposing teams had to overcome 25 or more points a game like the league's top offenses put up. The powerhouse offenses of NE and GB have defenses that gave up the most yards in the league last year. There's a direct correlation, make no mistake. Its amazing the Jets win a single Football game in a season with such a horrible roster. Its amazing the Jets have only had 3 losing seasons since 1997 with their inability to acquire talent the right way. Before last season, the Jets were very fortunate injury-wise. Last year we saw a couple players get hurt, and the result was losses. Good teams can overcome the loss of their starting center, the Jets couldn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Last year's crap offense held the ball 30:49. In 2010, they held it 32:37 (3rd best in NFL). The offense is doing exactly what I described - including, unfortunately, not scoring many points so that opposing offenses don't need to score as many points. Thats a surprising stat considering all the 3 and outs and they were also 25th in total yards. So maybe they held the ball for a long time, but the werent moving. My response was in the mind that you meant, grind it out, move the chains and score. Of course the defense would prefer the offense score more. Pretty dumb brain statement right there. But they would suffer statistically if the Jets had a quick strike attack, and opposing teams had to overcome 25 or more points a game like the league's top offenses put up. My dumb brain comment was in response to you saying - the Jets defense "benefits" - from having an offense you described like they actually would prefer having an offense that doesnt score because its easier on them. The powerhouse offenses of NE and GB have defenses that gave up the most yards in the league last year. There's a direct correlation, make no mistake. Of course their is, dumb brains. Nobody ever said different. Before last season, the Jets were very fortunate injury-wise. Last year we saw a couple players get hurt, and the result was losses. Good teams can overcome the loss of their starting center, the Jets couldn't. I dont think it was fortunate losing Kris Jenkins and Leon Washington for the season and staring the first 4 games without Calvin Pace in 09. Nor did I think it was fortunate when Kris Jenkins got hurt again and Calvin Pace missed 4 games to start the season again in 2010. Definitely wasnt fortunate losing Revis for a couple of games or Leonhard for the year or Woody for 4 games or Holmes missing the first 4 games or Cotchery for 2 games in 2010. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Larz Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 the jets need to shut their mouths and win if they want respect from the media Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 It's funny how you say you can go on and on yet you choose to mention the Tebow drive as if the defense didn't give up twelve points that game travelling across the country to that stadium on a VERY short week and being on the field all the time for three freaking hours because the offense was so horrendous. Sorry in crunch time the D failed Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 I get what you're saying, and I didn't mean that in terms of the long-term building of a team, my point was really more about the current makeup of each team (with the exception of obviously one extraordinarily important position). The fact that the Giants with an excessively better QB only managed to pick up just one more win than the Jets (their head-to-head matchup) says something. I don't know, their team just doesn't impress me all that much despite their big win. As far as loading up on receivers goes, you do realize their best WR last year was an UDFA, right? It's not exactly like that's where they've been spending all of their draft picks, and don't think that the play of the QB doesn't play it's own fairly important part in that. Let's not fool ourselves into thinking that there's a snowballs chance in hell that Cruz puts up that kind of season playing for the Jets. Get what you were saying about just swapping QBs. Their team does impress me, because they make the playoffs, and then deliver. Yes I realize Cruz was undrafted, doesn't change the fact that they have drafted/acquired a lot of WRs since drafting Eli. See, the reason they have the liberty to do that is because they got Eli. Once you have a QB, you break the cycle of using early draft picks on QBs... which opens the door to build around a QB. We've never really seen the Jets do this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Honestly, I think the pass rush think has gotten blown out of proportion regarding the Jets. Sure they'd do great to have an elite level rusher in their group, but their defense has been pretty damn impressive for 3 years running without it and frankly, if the offense kept up it's end of the bargain this would not be on anyone's mind. The truth is, at this point if the light suddenly comes on for Sanchez the Jets are instant contenders for the foreseeable future. If not, then there's only so much upside until they find their answer at QB. Without a true pass rush the Jets defense is pretty good. With it, they have the chance to be special. Championship special. I think that is what most of us are betting on when we talk about the need for natural pass rushers... also think that's what Rex sees. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Every thread devolves into, "Sanchez sucks." It's boring. Fvck the jints. Don't care. The Jets trade away way too many draft picks. It's not any one deal (although Sanchez or DRob may come to mind for some), it's the cumulative effect of all those trades. The 3's and 5's for Braylon and Jenkins, the move up for Keller (was that really necessary?), a 3 for Favre, a 2 for Cromartie, 3 picks for Shonn Greene, etc., etc... It's the reason the Jets lack depth during the season. Why when a guy like Mangold goes down, the team breaks down. People hate on Holmes, but for a #5, he was one of the Jets better trades (helping to make this thread kinda silly) and they have nothing on the roster if he gets hurt. They're thin at LB, nonexistent at S, and have crap at RB. After a while you run out of cap room when you're filling every need with a high priced FA, and that problem gets compounded when you're also trading away your best resource for acquiring cheap talent. The Jets have so many holes that they need to simply stay put and draft the BAP with every pick. And do that for a couple years, while letting other teams spend big in FA. The QB question will get sorted out over those couple years. If neither Sanchez or Tebow is the answer (decent probability), they can seek a new QB down the road knowing the rest of the roster has been solidified in the meantime. How ever much you may think the Jets QB's suck, the Jets've made their decision at the position for the next couple years. Agreed with the bold, and again. Reminds me of how comfortable everyone was bitching about Pennington... many fans seem content, that its back to their comfort zone. Fans suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 You have to consider the fact that the Jets defense out-performed the Giants in every defensive statistical measure but sacks in spite of the misfortune of being paired up with a god awful offense that makes their jobs all the more difficult. Giants defense closed out wins in big games when they needed to... something this Jets defense never seems to do. Close. I don't care about stats and rankings, unless you start quoting situation stats that lead to wins. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Meh, I disagree...we've had the roster a couple of times...just not the QB. QB is part of the roster. This post is chock full o' dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Agreed with the bold, and again. Reminds me of how comfortable everyone was bitching about Pennington... many fans seem content, that its back to their comfort zone. Fans suck. +1 #3 on my bucket list is to see the Jets draft a QB and develop him to elite status. Pretty sure I'm never gonna see that day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Agreed. No doubt. But the roster consistents of more than1 player. I think the Jets had the roster minus the QB for about 4 years now to be honest. QB is part of the roster. This post is chock full o' dumb. You're a cock full of dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 You're a cock full of dumb. O RLY? Then I'm surprised you haven't gobbled me up by now fruity pebbles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 O RLY? Then I'm surprised you haven't gobbled me up by now fruity pebbles You'd like that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I just thought of a really good cross-sports analogy. How many times in the MLB playoffs do you see the team with more good/great players lose to a team that might not be as good 1 through 9, but has a big-time pitcher and closer that go out and win a series for them? The Giants have the pitcher (Eli) and the closer (JPP, Tuck, Osi), while other, perhaps better, teams don't and that's what makes the difference. The Jets need an ace and a couple of closers. /Master of Analogies'd Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I just thought of a really good cross-sports analogy. How many times in the MLB playoffs do you see the team with more good/great players lose to a team that might not be as good 1 through 9, but has a big-time pitcher and closer that go out and win a series for them? The Giants have the pitcher (Eli) and the closer (JPP, Tuck, Osi), while other, perhaps better, teams don't and that's what makes the difference. The Jets need an ace and a couple of closers. /Master of Analogies'd Baseball sucks. Can you do this with politics or religion? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I just thought of a really good cross-sports analogy. How many times in the MLB playoffs do you see the team with more good/great players lose to a team that might not be as good 1 through 9, but has a big-time pitcher and closer that go out and win a series for them? The Giants have the pitcher (Eli) and the closer (JPP, Tuck, Osi), while other, perhaps better, teams don't and that's what makes the difference. The Jets need an ace and a couple of closers. /Master of Analogies'd Thats actually a really good analogy. lol You're so cute sometimes for being Satan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JoeWillie Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Funny thing about that is that the Jets defense is far superior to the Giants defense, despite the fact that the Giants are "loaded" with pass rushers. The Giants are probably a better team overall, but that's about their offense, not their defense. When healthy, the Giants defense is better than the Jets. In an era where offense is ruled by the passer, the ability to pressure the QB with 4-5 men, while at the same time maximizing your coverage with 6 or 7 is critical. The Giants can do that ... the Jets can not ... simple as that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Sorry in crunch time the D failed There should have never been a "crunch time". What was their shortcoming on that particular drive? How would you fix that? Have them all train at altitude, run simulated three hour games on Thursdays coupled with a simulated flight on Wednesday? The other four and 3/4 quarters don't count, right? Are you saying they choked? I'm not sure what you want from a defense, other than what they gave that day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Baseball sucks. Can you do this with politics or religion? How many Warning Points do we get? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 When healthy, the Giants defense is better than the Jets. In an era where offense is ruled by the passer, the ability to pressure the QB with 4-5 men, while at the same time maximizing your coverage with 6 or 7 is critical. The Giants can do that ... the Jets can not ... simple as that. How many points is the Giants defense better than the Jets, when "healthy"? The offense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Giants draft philosophy: Get Eli Manning. Draft nothing but pass rushers and wide receivers. As many as possible. Build the rest of the team modestly. Giants offensive draft philosophy...it doesn't matter what we do. We will pick up Victor Cruz as an undrafted free agent. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 How many Warning Points do we get? You? Apparently a lot, lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maxman Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I just thought of a really good cross-sports analogy. How many times in the MLB playoffs do you see the team with more good/great players lose to a team that might not be as good 1 through 9, but has a big-time pitcher and closer that go out and win a series for them? The Giants have the pitcher (Eli) and the closer (JPP, Tuck, Osi), while other, perhaps better, teams don't and that's what makes the difference. The Jets need an ace and a couple of closers. /Master of Analogies'd Nice story bro. Whenever you are ready, please post that really good cross-sports analogy. Thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Nice story bro. Whenever you are ready, please post that really good cross-sports analogy. Thanks. lol cock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garb Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Just because the Giants' D is Kryptonite to your Patriots doesn't mean it's a good D. The Giants have generally been ranked middle of the pack or worse throughout the Coughlin era in most defensive categories. Overall, the Jets D has been marketdly better than the Giants D in the Rex period. The Giants D has that one strong component as we all know. If the 4 main passrushers aren't hitting the QB or scaring the QB that he'll get hit (like what happens to Brady against them), then opposing QBs can have a field day against them. LOL! The Giants are better than the Jets (and the Patriots, obviously)....deal with it. The Jets have such a scary db (d-back, not d-bag...wait.....hmmm... ) tandem that you would think they are better....but the proof is in the pudding. And enough with people talking about luck. Luck is a part of the game. It took some hard play and some luck to propell the Jets to AFC Champ game a couple of seasons back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 There should have never been a "crunch time". What was their shortcoming on that particular drive? How would you fix that? Have them all train at altitude, run simulated three hour games on Thursdays coupled with a simulated flight on Wednesday? The other four and 3/4 quarters don't count, right? Are you saying they choked? I'm not sure what you want from a defense, other than what they gave that day. Yes i am saying the Jets D choked like a DOG Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 LOL! The Giants are better than the Jets (and the Patriots, obviously)....deal with it. The Jets have such a scary db (d-back, not d-bag...wait.....hmmm... ) tandem that you would think they are better....but the proof is in the pudding. And enough with people talking about luck. Luck is a part of the game. It took some hard play and some luck to propell the AFC Champ game a couple of seasons back. I know the Giants are better than the Pats and Jets. But, its a fact that, statistically speaking, the Jets have rated higher in most major defensive categories over the last 3 seasons than the Giants. Their defenses are constructed differently. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I know the Giants are better than the Pats and Jets. But, its a fact that, statistically speaking, the Jets have rated higher in most major defensive categories over the last 3 seasons than the Giants. Their defenses are constructed differently. And this is coming from a Giants fan, so that tells you something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garb Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I know the Giants are better than the Pats and Jets. But, its a fact that, statistically speaking, the Jets have rated higher in most major defensive categories over the last 3 seasons than the Giants. Their defenses are constructed differently. Meh. The only stat that counts is wins and losses. The other stuff is cool for arguments sake. Bottom line: Giants SB Champs. Jets 8-8. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Meh. The only stat that counts is wins and losses. The other stuff is cool for arguments sake. Bottom line: Giants SB Champs. Jets 8-8. I know that. I'm a Giant fan. I was merely speaking about facts. The Pats are ranked better offensively than the Giants. Fact. But all that matters is wins & losses as you say and when it counts the Giants wipe their asses with the Pats. Case closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garb Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I know that. I'm a Giant fan. I was merely speaking about facts. The Pats are ranked better offensively than the Giants. Fact. But all that matters is wins & losses as you say and when it counts the Giants wipe their asses with the Pats. Case closed. I wouln't say they wiped their asses, more like the Pats ran out of toilet paper. However, this is about the Jets allegedly being better than The Giants....or is it about you playing both sides of the fence? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 I wouln't say they wiped their asses, more like the Pats ran out of toilet paper. However, this is about the Jets allegedly being better than The Giants....or is it about you playing both sides of the fence? jets are barely better than jills Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garb Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 jets are barely better than jills Bills defense just got a whole lot better. I say this every year, but they REALLY scare me now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Bills defense just got a whole lot better. I say this every year, but they REALLY scare me now. My statement was 2011-2 Jills are now better IMO will get 2nd place this yr Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted April 13, 2012 Share Posted April 13, 2012 Meh. The only stat that counts is wins and losses. The other stuff is cool for arguments sake. Bottom line: Giants SB Champs. Jets 8-8. Yes they're the SB champs and that's great for them, and nothing will ever take that away, but that doesn't magically make them a better team than they are. The Giants were nearly sitting at home being known nothing as just some 9-7 team (one who many were already calling for the firing of the head coach of), not all that much more impressive than those 8-8 Jets. They got hot at the right time and still needed excessive luck to save them from how their own mediocrity by all rights should have screwed them over (their second a$$-kicking at the hands of the freakin' Redskins was pathetic and should have cost them the division, and any slightly competent officiating has Bradshaw fumbling the NFC Championship game away). They're still the champs and that's all they or their fans care about, just as they should, but that doesn't change the fact that using that and that alone as the reason to use them as the model for all NFL teams is absolutely ridiculous. Any team out there who wants to be Super Bowl champs sure as hell better plan on putting together something better than the 2011 Giants. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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