Matt39 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Yeah, in a nutshell, it basically comes down to the Giants ended up hitting big on Eli and so far, the Jets missing big on Sanchez. To be fair....that's also a big reason on why the Giants have their sh*t together...and the Jets, well...we'll see. They went all in on Eli because they thought he'd bring them championships. With the way things have shaked out with Woody and his philosophy, Im not quite sure winning was the only reason they brought in Sanchez. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 This thread is a first-ballot JN Hall of Famer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Front-7 like what the Giants have been able to sustain would have made Lowery, Drew Coleman, Eric Smith and Lito Sheppard look like a great secondary. Webster and Terrell Thomas are both above average CB's....and both Phillips and Rolle would start on the Jets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 If you swapped QBs, the Giants are a 4-win team and the Jets are at 12+ wins (and I'm not the biggest Eli fan in the world either). If you put Sanchez on the Giants, then the makeup of their team is probably different. They likely wouldn't have spent the past few years loading up on WRs for instance... statements like this are pretty much irrelevant because teams build around key positions, particularly QB. So just swapping QBs and assuming you know what hte outcome would be is a very pedestrian thing to do... you know football better than this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 So we're trying to say that the Giants trading a 5th rounder for a starting LB makes the Jets brilliant for their decision to make such amazing moves as trading a higher pick than that to have the league's worst QB back up the league's second worse QB? I'm not sure I'm buying that one. Oh, and I'm sorry, I know the Giants just won themselves a Super Bowl, but that is a decidedly mediocre team. The fact that they even made it into the playoffs to begin with was blind luck, as was that ridiculous championship game. In the end they won it and that's all that matters, so good for them, but that doesn't exactly make them the perfect run NFL team. I'm sorry, but there's a good number of NFL teams I'd much rather see the Jets model themselves after than the Giants. That said, none of that really makes one damn bit of difference until the Jets have a QB worth a damn. Yep. The Giants ARE a mediocre team that has 2 elite components which happen to be the most important components to have in order to win a championship. Two components, however, which the Jets unfortunately haven't developed or at times don't even seem interested in developing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Integrity28 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Webster and Terrell Thomas are both above average CB's....and both Phillips and Rolle would start on the Jets. Are they, or are they a product of their pass rush? Honestly I know how good they are as individuals, but I think the Giants philosophy is have a great pass rush, to make your secondary look good/great. Some teams do the opposite. I happen to agree with the Giants. The team that can get to the other teams QB, is always going to have an advantage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 This thread is a first-ballot JN Hall of Famer. It's got tremendous humiliation potential. I'm fearful of posting even this much in it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Why? Because every team needs two RB's. Because at times he's basically carried the entire offense through some playoff games. B/c once he got hurt everyone knew the Colts were winning that AFC championship game. B/c he's a big, physical back who is the perfect compliment to what should be your every down back who should be starting. First two years Greene was beloved with LT as the starter. Imo Greene shouldn't be starting. Mostly b/c he gives the team zero threat to catch out of the backfield. If used properly as he was the first two years he can be a dominant force and a great weapon for the offense. He can help win games as the perfect 2nd RB on any team with 10-12 carries per. Well worth a 3rd round pick. So they gave up a 4th and a 7th. B/c the next RB's selected after Greene were Mike Goodson, Andre Brown, Gartrell Johnson, Frank Summer, Javon Ringer, Cedric Peerman, Aaron Brown, James Davis, Bernard Scott. Javarris Williams & Fui Vakapuna. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Because every team needs two RB's. Because at times he's basically carried the entire offense through some playoff games already. B/c once he got hurt everyone knew the Colts were winning that AFC championship game. B/c he's a big, physical back who is the perfect compliment to what should be your every down back who should be starting. First two years Greene was beloved with LT as the starter. Imo Greene shouldn't be starting. Mostly b/c he gives the team zero threat to catch out of the backfield. If used properly as he was the first two years he can't be a dominant, disruptive force and a great weapon for the offense. He can help win games as the perfect 2nd RB on any team with 10-12 carries per. Well worth a 3rd round pick. So they gave up a 4th and a 7th. B/c the next RB's selected after Greene were Mike Goodson, Andre Brown, Gartrell Johnson, Frank Summer, Javon Ringer, Cedric Peerman, Aaron Brown, James Davis, Bernard Scott. Javarris Williams & Fui Vakapuna. We can talk value all we want, and in retrospect, sure it was a nice value pick because he plays for us....but he isnt very good. Greene would be replaced the second we found someone else who could play. Unfortunately the guy we took last year doesnt seem to be able to do that either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 If you put Sanchez on the Giants, then the makeup of their team is probably different. They likely wouldn't have spent the past few years loading up on WRs for instance... statements like this are pretty much irrelevant because teams build around key positions, particularly QB. So just swapping QBs and assuming you know what hte outcome would be is a very pedestrian thing to do... you know football better than this. I get what you're saying, and I didn't mean that in terms of the long-term building of a team, my point was really more about the current makeup of each team (with the exception of obviously one extraordinarily important position). The fact that the Giants with an excessively better QB only managed to pick up just one more win than the Jets (their head-to-head matchup) says something. I don't know, their team just doesn't impress me all that much despite their big win. As far as loading up on receivers goes, you do realize their best WR last year was an UDFA, right? It's not exactly like that's where they've been spending all of their draft picks, and don't think that the play of the QB doesn't play it's own fairly important part in that. Let's not fool ourselves into thinking that there's a snowballs chance in hell that Cruz puts up that kind of season playing for the Jets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Yep. The Giants ARE a mediocre team that has 2 elite components which happen to be the most important components to have in order to win a championship. Two components, however, which the Jets unfortunately haven't developed or at times don't even seem interested in developing. Honestly, I think the pass rush think has gotten blown out of proportion regarding the Jets. Sure they'd do great to have an elite level rusher in their group, but their defense has been pretty damn impressive for 3 years running without it and frankly, if the offense kept up it's end of the bargain this would not be on anyone's mind. The truth is, at this point if the light suddenly comes on for Sanchez the Jets are instant contenders for the foreseeable future. If not, then there's only so much upside until they find their answer at QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
afosomf Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Honestly, I think the pass rush think has gotten blown out of proportion regarding the Jets. Sure they'd do great to have an elite level rusher in their group, but their defense has been pretty damn impressive for 3 years running without it and frankly, if the offense kept up it's end of the bargain this would not be on anyone's mind. The truth is, at this point if the light suddenly comes on for Sanchez the Jets are instant contenders for the foreseeable future. If not, then there's only so much upside until they find their answer at QB. watch the film, Jet D has declined every yr, The Iggles could have laid 60 points on us, 99 yd td cy cruz, tebow game winning drive, i could go on and on Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RutgersJetFan Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 If you put Sanchez on the Giants, then the makeup of their team is probably different. Being that Sanchez is so bad, the team that's unfortunately stuck with him needs lots of awesome guys at lots of positions to make up for the suckage. When you don't have Mark Sanchez, you have the luxury of giving up a mid-rounder here or there for some risks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 We can talk value all we want, and in retrospect, sure it was a nice value pick because he plays for us....but he isnt very good. Greene would be replaced the second we found someone else who could play. Unfortunately the guy we took last year doesnt seem to be able to do that either. I would say he limits your offense as a starter but I would consider him the best back up/#2 RB in the league if they, like, had a starter and stuff. Good value in the 3rd and considering what was left and that they needed a RB he was a good pick as he is a good NFL RB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 watch the film, Jet D has declined every yr, The Iggles could have laid 60 points on us, 99 yd td cy cruz, tebow game winning drive, i could go on and on I think the O going full disaster mode last year really hurt the D. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 DRob was their worst offense imo. I personally think you can't fault them for Sanchez. They needed a franchise QB and it was perfect timing to grab one with the rookie defensive minded head coach. He was the consensus second best prospect on the board. And it's not fair to bury him yet either...imo. Keller and Greene trade/picks I would consider somewhat successful regardless of the fact neither player is perfect. That and none of those trades costed anything of significance. Keller costed the most. A 2nd and 4th if I remember correctly which is nothing...because the 2nd to get into the 1st was a wash. If Sanchez panned out, it would have been one of the best fleece's in draft history. Swapped first rounders, a 2nd and a bunch of Jags. The value was nothing for a would be franchise QB. Greene was what a 4th and 7th? Thats nothing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
THE ILK Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 They also do not have hot women scandals, foot fetish tapes, teh model, or JiF's boy friend so there! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Every thread devolves into, "Sanchez sucks." It's boring. Fvck the jints. Don't care. The Jets trade away way too many draft picks. It's not any one deal (although Sanchez or DRob may come to mind for some), it's the cumulative effect of all those trades. The 3's and 5's for Braylon and Jenkins, the move up for Keller (was that really necessary?), a 3 for Favre, a 2 for Cromartie, 3 picks for Shonn Greene, etc., etc... It's the reason the Jets lack depth during the season. Why when a guy like Mangold goes down, the team breaks down. People hate on Holmes, but for a #5, he was one of the Jets better trades (helping to make this thread kinda silly) and they have nothing on the roster if he gets hurt. They're thin at LB, nonexistent at S, and have crap at RB. After a while you run out of cap room when you're filling every need with a high priced FA, and that problem gets compounded when you're also trading away your best resource for acquiring cheap talent. The Jets have so many holes that they need to simply stay put and draft the BAP with every pick. And do that for a couple years, while letting other teams spend big in FA. The QB question will get sorted out over those couple years. If neither Sanchez or Tebow is the answer (decent probability), they can seek a new QB down the road knowing the rest of the roster has been solidified in the meantime. How ever much you may think the Jets QB's suck, the Jets've made their decision at the position for the next couple years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 The Jets would make the same deal, except they'd wait until he was 32. There would be so many tears over Rivers' suckage here, like with Schillens. 5th for Holmes? Angry stoner! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Every thread devolves into, "Sanchez sucks." It's boring. Fvck the jints. Don't care. The Jets trade away way too many draft picks. It's not any one deal (although Sanchez or DRob may come to mind for some), it's the cumulative effect of all those trades. The 3's and 5's for Braylon and Jenkins, the move up for Keller (was that really necessary?), a 3 for Favre, a 2 for Cromartie, 3 picks for Shonn Greene, etc., etc... It's the reason the Jets lack depth during the season. Why when a guy like Mangold goes down, the team breaks down. People hate on Holmes, but for a #5, he was one of the Jets better trades (helping to make this thread kinda silly) and they have nothing on the roster if he gets hurt. They're thin at LB, nonexistent at S, and have crap at RB. After a while you run out of cap room when you're filling every need with a high priced FA, and that problem gets compounded when you're also trading away your best resource for acquiring cheap talent. The Jets have so many holes that they need to simply stay put and draft the BAP with every pick. And do that for a couple years, while letting other teams spend big in FA. The QB question will get sorted out over those couple years. If neither Sanchez or Tebow is the answer (decent probability), they can seek a new QB down the road knowing the rest of the roster has been solidified in the meantime. How ever much you may think the Jets QB's suck, the Jets've made their decision at the position for the next couple years. Agreed. Nice post. The hate for Sanchez around here has gotten so strong that every single other move this team has made is starting to get praised. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ryno the Jet Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Are you actually implying that the Giants are not a well run organization? I believe they have won 4 Super Bowls 2 in the last five years and been to 5. Oh yeah they won this years as well. I only wish the Jets were that poorly run. Good thing you don't have to hunt sarcasm to keep your family fed... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gastineau Lives Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 watch the film, Jet D has declined every yr, The Iggles could have laid 60 points on us, 99 yd td cy cruz, tebow game winning drive, i could go on and on It's funny how you say you can go on and on yet you choose to mention the Tebow drive as if the defense didn't give up twelve points that game travelling across the country to that stadium on a VERY short week and being on the field all the time for three freaking hours because the offense was so horrendous. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 It's funny how you say you can go on and on yet you choose to mention the Tebow drive as if the defense didn't give up twelve points that game travelling across the country to that stadium on a VERY short week and being on the field all the time for three freaking hours because the offense was so horrendous. Yeah, when I saw him cite that as one of his examples is when I decided not to even bother responding. Apparently the Jets defense was proven to be so much worse this year in a game in which they allowed 10 points to the opposing team while the freakin' offense gave up 7 to them while scoring only 13. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garb Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Funny thing about that is that the Jets defense is far superior to the Giants defense, despite the fact that the Giants are "loaded" with pass rushers. The Giants are probably a better team overall, but that's about their offense, not their defense. The Jets defense is "far" superior to the Giants? I'll give you that the Jets have the best corner tandem in the league and have, without argument, the best corner in the league in Revis. The Giants DB's are mediocre at best. Otherwise, c'mon man. That's a ridiculous statement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 The Jets defense is "far" superior to the Giants? I'll give you that the Jets have the best corner tandem in the league and have, without argument, the best corner in the league in Revis. The Giants DB's are mediocre at best. Otherwise, c'mon man. That's a ridiculous statement. You have to consider the fact that the Jets defense out-performed the Giants in every defensive statistical measure but sacks in spite of the misfortune of being paired up with a god awful offense that makes their jobs all the more difficult. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
slats Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 You have to consider the fact that the Jets defense out-performed the Giants in every defensive statistical measure but sacks in spite of the misfortune of being paired up with a god awful offense that makes their jobs all the more difficult. Disagree with the end bit. An offense that actually scores points puts a lot more pressure on their defense, IMHO. The Jets defense benefits from a grind it out offense eating the clock and, unfortunately, from opposing offenses not needing to score as much to win. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bleedin Green Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Disagree with the end bit. An offense that actually scores points puts a lot more pressure on their defense, IMHO. The Jets defense benefits from a grind it out offense eating the clock and, unfortunately, from opposing offenses not needing to score as much to win. I guess I see your point there, and there is certainly something to that when the offense is having (relative) success with that plan, but on the flip side when your offense is failing at their attempts to eat the clock and instead putting your D back out on the field with a constant stream of 3 and outs or turning the ball over left and right, that's not exactly a great help to your defense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SMC Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 The Jets defense is "far" superior to the Giants? I'll give you that the Jets have the best corner tandem in the league and have, without argument, the best corner in the league in Revis. The Giants DB's are mediocre at best. Otherwise, c'mon man. That's a ridiculous statement. Just because the Giants' D is Kryptonite to your Patriots doesn't mean it's a good D. The Giants have generally been ranked middle of the pack or worse throughout the Coughlin era in most defensive categories. Overall, the Jets D has been marketdly better than the Giants D in the Rex period. The Giants D has that one strong component as we all know. If the 4 main passrushers aren't hitting the QB or scaring the QB that he'll get hit (like what happens to Brady against them), then opposing QBs can have a field day against them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NYGiantFan10 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 some might have forgotten that the giants did lose there MLB(jonathan goff) and Their number 2 CB(terrell thomas) for the whole season.. not to mention osi and tuck were banged up all year those are big pieces of the d Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Disagree with the end bit. An offense that actually scores points puts a lot more pressure on their defense, IMHO. The Jets defense benefits from a grind it out offense eating the clock and, unfortunately, from opposing offenses not needing to score as much to win. This is true if the offense is actually doing what you described, which the Jets offense clearly did not last year. This is an interesting debate though. I wonder if the Jets defense agree's with you. Me thinks not. Me thinks they wish that the offense scored a bit more so they could actually make a push for the division one of these years. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Every thread devolves into, "Sanchez sucks." It's boring. Fvck the jints. Don't care. The Jets trade away way too many draft picks. It's not any one deal (although Sanchez or DRob may come to mind for some), it's the cumulative effect of all those trades. The 3's and 5's for Braylon and Jenkins, the move up for Keller (was that really necessary?), a 3 for Favre, a 2 for Cromartie, 3 picks for Shonn Greene, etc., etc... It's the reason the Jets lack depth during the season. Why when a guy like Mangold goes down, the team breaks down. People hate on Holmes, but for a #5, he was one of the Jets better trades (helping to make this thread kinda silly) and they have nothing on the roster if he gets hurt. They're thin at LB, nonexistent at S, and have crap at RB. After a while you run out of cap room when you're filling every need with a high priced FA, and that problem gets compounded when you're also trading away your best resource for acquiring cheap talent. The Jets have so many holes that they need to simply stay put and draft the BAP with every pick. And do that for a couple years, while letting other teams spend big in FA. The QB question will get sorted out over those couple years. If neither Sanchez or Tebow is the answer (decent probability), they can seek a new QB down the road knowing the rest of the roster has been solidified in the meantime. How ever much you may think the Jets QB's suck, the Jets've made their decision at the position for the next couple years. Its amazing the Jets win a single Football game in a season with such a horrible roster. Its amazing the Jets have only had 3 losing seasons since 1997 with their inability to acquire talent the right way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Its amazing the Jets win a single Football game in a season with such a horrible roster. Its amazing the Jets have only had 3 losing seasons since 1997 with their inability to acquire talent the right way. We're certainly not a laughing stock anymore, but other than 1998...we've never had a roster capable of winning a Super Bowl. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 We're certainly not a laughing stock anymore, but other than 1998...we've never had a roster capable of winning a Super Bowl. Meh, I disagree...we've had the roster a couple of times...just not the QB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Meh, I disagree...we've had the roster a couple of times...just not the QB. Not to be a dick....but that's a pretty damn important piece. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JustInFudge Posted April 12, 2012 Share Posted April 12, 2012 Not to be a dick....but that's a pretty damn important piece. Agreed. No doubt. But the roster consistents of more than1 player. I think the Jets had the roster minus the QB for about 4 years now to be honest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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