Who Loves Mark Sanchez?

[BlackDynamite]

Whoever says Eli and Mark Sanchez' situations are different after three years just hasn't been paying attention.

Besides the same stadium and same market:

Both high draft picks much was expected from.

Both played to a stalemate statistically after 3 years

Both have had questions about leadership

Both played on defense/run/time of possesion-first offenses

Both had a reputation for bad turnovers in key situations

Both played well in the playoffs and have had deep runs

You guys can't have it both ways. If Sanchez is garbage, then Eli, Troy Aikman, Terry Bradshaw, etc were garbage too going into Year 4 too.....

BD

[artemusclyde]

Based on preseason stats? Where Tebow trots out against the other team's twos with the same receivers Sanchez had against the ones? Against those twos, Tebow has managed a passer rating of 35.4. Sanchez sucks, but at least he's scraping mediocrity with a 60.9. Both QBs have thrown picks.

There's really no conclusion to draw from two preseason games.

In regular season action, Tebow was generally terrible, and then would bail himself out with a big throw. But he throws too many incompletions, takes too many sacks, and -as I said- led the league in 3 & outs. Not much of a game manager at all.

I get that you're enamoured with the myth of Tebow, but the reality is pretty stark.

My point exactly, they both suck at passing so you might as well give it to the guy who can at least run the ball. Tebow brings with him the opportunity to revitalize the running game, I think we were 24th last year to lazy to look it up, something Mark can't do. And last time I checked we were a run first offense and the fact of the matter is, Tebow doesn't turn the ball over as much as Mark and Tim's leadership is also a lot better than Mark's, so if he starts he has the potential of making the players around him better.

Also, Mark Sanchez was also only throwing 5 yard passes, and that's his qb rating? Looking like Mark isn't that much of an improvement (passing wise) over Tim after all.

Also, Tim was coming off a lock out and wasn't even starting when he first came in. So of course he's going to take a lot of sacks. He's not used to the offense. Also, Mark has had how long to get his game together with this offense, and he's only a little bit better as passing than Tim is, who is in his first year with the Jets?

[artemusclyde]

Whoever says Eli and Mark Sanchez' situations are different after three years just hasn't been paying attention.

Besides the same stadium and same market:

Both high draft picks much was expected from.

Both played to a stalemate statistically after 3 years

Both have had questions about leadership

Both played on defense/run/time of possesion-first offenses

Both had a reputation for bad turnovers in key situations

Both played well in the playoffs and have had deep runs

You guys can't have it both ways. If Sanchez is garbage, then Eli, Troy Aikman, Terry Bradshaw, etc were garbage too going into Year 4 too.....

BD

True, but once again your pointing out the exception not the majority. Its much more probable/likely that Sanchez will continue to suck then him turning into one of the greats.

[Bugg]

Whoever says Eli and Mark Sanchez' situations are different after three years just hasn't been paying attention.

Besides the same stadium and same market:

Both high draft picks much was expected from.

Both played to a stalemate statistically after 3 years

Both have had questions about leadership

Both played on defense/run/time of possesion-first offenses

Both had a reputation for bad turnovers in key situations

Both played well in the playoffs and have had deep runs

You guys can't have it both ways. If Sanchez is garbage, then Eli, Troy Aikman, Terry Bradshaw, etc were garbage too going into Year 4 too.....

BD

And each of those variables is as true of a host of QBS who did in fact continue to suck. You point to the few exceptions, not the legion of Matt Leinarts, David Carrs and Ryan Leafs of whom each of those things is also true.

[slats]

My point exactly, they both suck at passing so you might as well give it to the guy who can at least run the ball. Tebow brings with him the opportunity to revitalize the running game, I think we were 24th last year to lazy to look it up, something Mark can't do. And last time I checked we were a run first offense and the fact of the matter is, Tebow doesn't turn the ball over as much as Mark and Tim's leadership is also a lot better than Mark's, so if he starts he has the potential of making the players around him better.

Also, Mark Sanchez was also only throwing 5 yard passes, and that's his qb rating? Looking like Mark isn't that much of an improvement (passing wise) over Tim after all.

You have to be able to throw the ball in this league, Tebow -right now- can't. Sanchez has his issues, but he's a lot closer to being a decent passer than Tebow is.

For all of his prowess running the football, he still led the league in 3 & outs. That's not what you want in a game manager. Well, maybe it's what you want, but that wouldn't make him effective in the role. The guy can't even take a snap from center.

You'll see plenty of Tebow running the ball this year with the ol' wildcat. He doesn't need to start. The Jets fully intend to give Sanchez an extended chance to prove himself, anyway. All this fan chatter about Tebow starting is just that: empty talk.

[artemusclyde]

You have to be able to throw the ball in this league, Tebow -right now- can't. Sanchez has his issues, but he's a lot closer to being a decent passer than Tebow is.

For all of his prowess running the football, he still led the league in 3 & outs. That's not what you want in a game manager. Well, maybe it's what you want, but that wouldn't make him effective in the role. The guy can't even take a snap from center.

You'll see plenty of Tebow running the ball this year with the ol' wildcat. He doesn't need to start. The Jets fully intend to give Sanchez an extended chance to prove himself, anyway. All this fan chatter about Tebow starting is just that: empty talk.

Once again, 60.9 qb rating when only throwing 5 yard passes is not anywhere close to decent. Not to mention the horrible pick six. Tebow has more intangibles than Mark does, leadership, work ethic, being able to read the defense to a degree, and maturity. I see more upside in Tebow than Mark, Mark has had way to long to learn the offense and still can't throw the ball. While Tim on the other hand is learning a new offense, playbook, and is arguably better than Mark (not passing) in the whole. Tim is still not comfortable being in the pocket due to this being a new offense, in a couple of years Tim probably will be a whole lot better than Sanchez is.

[Jetsfan80]

Except for the first group and roethlisberger should be included in that group there is only one who has won as many playoff games as Sanchez -Flacco and he had an additional year to do it. it's easy to knock a man but at the same time at least acknowledge what he has accomplished. The only year he did not get to a championship game he had bad o line for chunk of the year, a lousy coordinator, receivers who can't seem to get separation.........

's

I refuse to acknowledge what he's "accomplished" as long as folks like you insist on listing off the excuses I've bolded.

Good QB's don't require perfect circumstances to have success. He's shown his true colors (like in 2011) all along, people just point to when he had it made in '09-'10 and say THAT'S the real Mark. Nope, he's always sucked, its just the talent around him that's varied.

It was the same garbage excuses with Chad Pennington. Paul Hackett sucked. Laveranues Coles/Santana Moss sucked. He didn't have a running game. Yet when everything around Chad aligned, he still couldn't come through with a deep playoff run much less a ring. Granted, Mark has shown to have better big-game performances than Chad for sure, but that doesn't say much. Chad was the ultimate "come up small when the team needs him most" QB.

[BlackDynamite]

If you guys seriously can't tell the difference between Sanchez and Leaf/Leinart, there's no hope you.

Good day, sirs.....

BD

[artemusclyde]

If you guys seriously can't tell the difference between Sanchez and Leaf/Leinart, there's no hope you.

Good day, sirs.....

BD

I could throw that right back at you. If you guys seriously can't tell the difference between Sanchez and Bradshaw/Manning theirs no hope for you.

[slats]

Once again, 60.9 qb rating when only throwing 5 yard passes is not anywhere close to decent. Not to mention the horrible pick six. Tebow has more intangibles than Mark does, leadership, work ethic, being able to read the defense to a degree, and maturity. I see more upside in Tebow than Mark, Mark has had way to long to learn the offense and still can't throw the ball. While Tim on the other hand is learning a new offense, playbook, and is arguably better than Mark (not passing) in the whole. Tim is still not comfortable being in the pocket due to this being a new offense, in a couple of years Tim probably will be a whole lot better than Sanchez is.

I'm not deeply concerned about Sanchez so far. Both QBs are learning a new offense -not just Timmy- but Sanchez is playing without 2/3 of his starting WRs. Tebow is putting up a passer rating of 35.4 with the same receivers Sanchez gets to play with, but Tebow gets to go against the twos. Really no comparison. He should be significantly outplaying Sanchez under these circumstances. This is how the legend of Brett Ratliff was born. Instead, he's playing like crap.

I'll give the intangibles of maturity and leadership, but it's not like Sanchez doesn't have a strong work ethic of his own, and there's no evidence anywhere that suggests Tebow has the slightest grasp of reading a defense. You're grasping at straws there.

In a couple years... ?

If Sanchez doesn't demonstrate himself to be the answer this season, the Jets are highly unlikely to wait around for Tebow to figure it out.

[THE ILK]

I love him.*

*Potentially

[Bugg]

I'm not deeply concerned about Sanchez so far. Both QBs are learning a new offense -not just Timmy- but Sanchez is playing without 2/3 of his starting WRs. Tebow is putting up a passer rating of 35.4 with the same receivers Sanchez gets to play with, but Tebow gets to go against the twos. Really no comparison. He should be significantly outplaying Sanchez under these circumstances. This is how the legend of Brett Ratliff was born. Instead, he's playing like crap.

I'll give the intangibles of maturity and leadership, but it's not like Sanchez doesn't have a strong work ethic of his own, and there's no evidence anywhere that suggests Tebow has the slightest grasp of reading a defense. You're grasping at straws there.

In a couple years... ?

If Sanchez doesn't demonstrate himself to be the answer this season, the Jets are highly unlikely to wait around for Tebow to figure it out.

The New OC/New System excuse comes to the fore. Like they're asking Sanchez to do long division and cook chili at the same time, as opposed to being an NFL QB. So do we get a refund on either this or next years' $13 million? How much does it take to keep throwing dumpoffs and 4-yard swing passes on 3rd and 8?

[T0mShane]

I'd like to change my vote to ZOMG

[Knix Tix]

Sill not gving up!

[slats]

The New OC/New System excuse comes to the fore. Like they're asking Sanchez to do long division and cook chili at the same time, as opposed to being an NFL QB. So do we get a refund on either this or next years' $13 million? How much does it take to keep throwing dumpoffs and 4-yard swing passes on 3rd and 8?

I was replying to a post that claimed Tebow was learning a new offense, but Sanchez wasn't. That's all. Nothing else to see here.

[Lupz27]

I was replying to a post that claimed Tebow was learning a new offense, but Sanchez wasn't. That's all. Nothing else to see here.

IDK if it is just me, but outside of one, or two plays last night Sanchez actually looked competent, the one really bad play was the sack he took, he held on to the ball way to long that is not on the O-Line that was him, and he fired it a little high in the endzone for Hill in the 2nd quarter I believe it was, and to his credit that is a pass a lot of 6'4" veterans will go up, and get hopefully with some experience Hill will to.

Also the WR core didn't do him any favors who knows what would have happened if Holmes doesn't drop that pass, and Hill the same the one that was picked we might be sitting here talking about how Sanchez drove the Jets impressively down the field for a nice TD drive.

And on Hill his chemistry with Sanchez looks to be coming along nicely that back shoulder throw was a terrific pass something that has been missing in Sanchez' arsenal, which is something all above average to elite QB's must be able to do, and to do this they have to trust the WR to adjust based on the coverage they both see, and be on the same page, and hopefully Sanchez, and Hill can develop that more as the season goes on, and Hill can work on his hands a little.

Sanchez still had a couple bad placed balls to, but all in all he did a decent job last night, he looked more comfortable in the pocket with Howard actually blocking the DE, and seemed to have command of the offense.

Unfortunatly for everyone being pissed on the Jets O not getting in the end zone you better get used to cheering for made FG's that is Tony Sparano's specialty, he preaches chunk plays between the 20's, but once inside the 20 he is the most conservative play caller I have seen in a long time, if only the Jets kept their redzone plan from last year that aggressive style of attack inside the 20 is the way of the NFL now, and it should be the norm for the Jets to just gotta find that big body to replace Plax.

In closing maybe just maybe the offense can be servicable if we Sanchez, and the O-line can grow off of last nights performance passing game wise, and the O-Line learns how to open up holes big enough for a slow bumbling back like Green to pick up 4-6 yards once in awhile, he will never really break many more than 20 he can't out run most DT's in this league, and it is a shame, hopefully Tanny can find a future stud in the Labor day mini draft lol.

My vote was maybe he will get it in his 30's, I was torn between that one, and I still have hope, but choose the 30's one because I do believe he will be Matt Schaub's replacement in Houston either in a trade with the Jets this offseason if Sanchez struggles, or in 2 years if the Jets let Sanchez walk from his contract, and Houston's stop gap QB doesn't pan out, this would put Sanchez getting it at around the age of 28-30 if he works out with Kubiak's offense, an offense he ran very well in USC, granted it was with superior talent, but Kubiak generally does a good job of protecting his QB, and getting wide open first read WR's.

[johnny utah]

I'm a better Quarter-Back than Sanchez is....and i've never the played the game in my life...

[JohnnyHector]

My eyes lean toward option 4, but the negative karma surrounding this team makes the odds of him going on to have a semi-successful post-Jets career quite high.

[Klecko73isGod]

IDK if it is just me, but outside of one, or two plays last night Sanchez actually looked competent, the one really bad play was the sack he took, he held on to the ball way to long that is not on the O-Line that was him, and he fired it a little high in the endzone for Hill in the 2nd quarter I believe it was, and to his credit that is a pass a lot of 6'4" veterans will go up, and get hopefully with some experience Hill will to.

Also the WR core didn't do him any favors who knows what would have happened if Holmes doesn't drop that pass, and Hill the same the one that was picked we might be sitting here talking about how Sanchez drove the Jets impressively down the field for a nice TD drive.

And on Hill his chemistry with Sanchez looks to be coming along nicely that back shoulder throw was a terrific pass something that has been missing in Sanchez' arsenal, which is something all above average to elite QB's must be able to do, and to do this they have to trust the WR to adjust based on the coverage they both see, and be on the same page, and hopefully Sanchez, and Hill can develop that more as the season goes on, and Hill can work on his hands a little.

Sanchez still had a couple bad placed balls to, but all in all he did a decent job last night, he looked more comfortable in the pocket with Howard actually blocking the DE, and seemed to have command of the offense.

Unfortunatly for everyone being pissed on the Jets O not getting in the end zone you better get used to cheering for made FG's that is Tony Sparano's specialty, he preaches chunk plays between the 20's, but once inside the 20 he is the most conservative play caller I have seen in a long time, if only the Jets kept their redzone plan from last year that aggressive style of attack inside the 20 is the way of the NFL now, and it should be the norm for the Jets to just gotta find that big body to replace Plax.

In closing maybe just maybe the offense can be servicable if we Sanchez, and the O-line can grow off of last nights performance passing game wise, and the O-Line learns how to open up holes big enough for a slow bumbling back like Green to pick up 4-6 yards once in awhile, he will never really break many more than 20 he can't out run most DT's in this league, and it is a shame, hopefully Tanny can find a future stud in the Labor day mini draft lol.

My vote was maybe he will get it in his 30's, I was torn between that one, and I still have hope, but choose the 30's one because I do believe he will be Matt Schaub's replacement in Houston either in a trade with the Jets this offseason if Sanchez struggles, or in 2 years if the Jets let Sanchez walk from his contract, and Houston's stop gap QB doesn't pan out, this would put Sanchez getting it at around the age of 28-30 if he works out with Kubiak's offense, an offense he ran very well in USC, granted it was with superior talent, but Kubiak generally does a good job of protecting his QB, and getting wide open first read WR's.

He completed 61% of his passes last night. Had Holmes and Hill not had those back to back drops he's at 73%. The ball to Hill in the end zone was more than catchable. The only really bad ball was the deep out to Holmes which was thrown to the wrong spot inside the hash mark instead of outside the hash.

He completes one of those last two throws I mentioned he would have had a TD to his credit.

The bottom line is this: Sanchez completed 57% of his passes last year for around 3400 yards, 26 TD and 18 INT, he also ran for 6 TD and fumbled 10 times, losing 8 of them. If he completes 60% of his passes this year for around 3750 yards, 30 TD, 15 INT, runs for 3-4 TD and cuts his fumbles down to around 7 and only loses 2-3, we'll be back in the playoffs no problem.

I don't think a 3% jump in completion percentage, an increase of around 350 total passing yards, four more TDs, three fewer INTs and three fewer fumbles are either unrealistic or unattainable.

[The Crusher]

Agreed, but not exactly the point. Sanchez was going in the 1st round before the 20's no matter what, and we needed a QB. Would have been cool to trade up for Stafford, though he's been injured a lot so who knows what would have happened there. And I don't trust Josh Freeman anymore than Sanchez. Guess we just needed a QB on the wrong year...

Very interesting concept.

[slats]

If he completes 60% of his passes this year for around 3750 yards, 30 TD, 15 INT, runs for 3-4 TD and cuts his fumbles down to around 7 and only loses 2-3, we'll be back in the playoffs no problem.

I don't think a 3% jump in completion percentage, an increase of around 350 total passing yards, four more TDs, three fewer INTs and three fewer fumbles are either unrealistic or unattainable.

That would be one of the greatest seasons for a Jets QB in franchise history. I think that might be a little too much to hope for. I'd like to see the jump in comp %, and it looks like they're all working on that. I think that should lead to an improved YPA, which I'd like to see over 7.

Tebow is going to cut into his reps, particularly in the redzone. I hope his ints go down, but I expect his TDs to drop along with his attempts.

[JustInFudge]

That would be one of the greatest seasons for a Jets QB in franchise history. I think that might be a little too much to hope for. I'd like to see the jump in comp %, and it looks like they're all working on that. I think that should lead to an improved YPA, which I'd like to see over 7.

Tebow is going to cut into his reps, particularly in the redzone. I hope his ints go down, but I expect his TDs to drop along with his attempts.

Sadly, from a statistical stand point, he just finished one of the greatest seasons in Jets QB history.

[Knix Tix]

Last night's loss CANNOT be blamed on Sanchez. What's next? He get the blame for global warming?

[slats]

Sadly, from a statistical stand point, he just finished one of the greatest seasons in Jets QB history.

True. I don't see him setting the franchise record for TD passes this year, though.

[JustInFudge]

True. I don't see him setting the franchise record for TD passes this year, though.

Agreed. But then again, the jump Klacko is talking about is far from impossible. Highly unlikely given what we've seen so far but definitely not impossible.

[Jet27]

I have not given up on Sanchez. If he cuts 50% off of HIS mistakes we will be ok, even with Tebow taking some reps from Sanchez.

[slats]

Agreed. But then again, the jump Klacko is talking about is far from impossible. Highly unlikely given what we've seen so far but definitely not impossible.

If he can put up Ken O'Brien type numbers, the Jets will win the Super Bowl.

[JohnnyHector]

If he can put up Ken O'Brien type numbers, the Jets will win the Super Bowl.

Considering the differences in the passing game between the mid-80's and now, putting up (peak) O'Brien numbers would make Sanchez a league-average QB in 2012.

While I'm not sure that guarantees a SB with the supporting offensive cast, it would certainly be a major improvement over the performance we'll get from him this season.

[Klecko73isGod]

If he can put up Ken O'Brien type numbers, the Jets will win the Super Bowl.

Actually, if he did exactly what I said, he'd best O'Brien's best year.

[afosomf]

Actually, if he did exactly what I said, he'd best O'Brien's best year.

heh einstein, u do know the rules have changed since O Brien played,,right?

cannot compare stats

[Klecko73isGod]

heh einstein, u do know the rules have changed since O Brien played,,right?

cannot compare stats

Yes, but statistical measurement has not.

1 yard still equals 1 yard.

[JoeWillie]

He's better than most people on this board give him credit for.

He's a good young NFL QB, who like most other good young NFL QB's, needs 3-5 years in this league to be VERY good, if not elite. He makes mistakes, but that's normal.

That said, the Jets management and coaching staff have not helped his development.

If he doesn't develop here, he will somewhere else.

He's a talented kid and he's tougher than most people think.

In my 45 years of watching NFL football, I've never seen a 3rd year QB who has had as much success as he has, been so maligned by his own team's fanbase.

Only Jet fans.

[afosomf]

Yes, but statistical measurement has not.

1 yard still equals 1 yard.

so it doesnt matter if O brien wr is being mugged while Sanchize Wr is able to chew gum and pick his nose

[PatriotReign37]

so it doesnt matter if O brien wr is being mugged while Sanchize Wr is able to chew gum and pick his nose

Dont give any ideas.

[JohnnyHector]

In my 45 years of watching NFL football, I've never seen a 3rd year QB who has had as much success as he has, been so maligned by his own team's fanbase.

Only Jet fans.

Oh, horsesh*t.

A good number of Giants fans echoed the sentiments in the below articles and booed Eli out of the stadium in 2007 when he threw 4 picks against Minnesota. I know he hadn't single-handedly win 4 playoff games at that point like Mark Sanchez, but treating players like sh*t is not exclusive to Jets fans.

http://articles.nydailynews.com/2006-11-17/sports/18339469_1_manning-era-ernie-accorsi-eli-manning

http://fifthdown.blogs.nytimes.com/2006/11/14/the-eli-manning-mistake/