AT Best, Santonio is a #2 WR. Does that make Hill #1?

[Strangefunk]

When you think of prototypical #1 receivers you think of guys like Megatron, Nicks, Marshall, etc. Santonio to me seems like a #2 WR. He lacks the ability to go deep instead using crossing routes to get open. I don't know if its because my boy Sanchize just cant get the ball deep to him or because santonio is shorter the over the shoulder throws are more difficult.

Now, if Santonio is a #2, does that make Hill the #1 wr?

What do you guys think?

[Jetsfan80]

Braylon Edwards is still my # 1.

[JoeC36]

Braylon Edwards is still my # 1.

get over it already

[Bleedin Green]

Holmes has the ability to be a #1 (although certainly not on the level of the NFL's very best), but his primary issue is that he is a remarkably inconsistent player. And yes, while the play of his QB doesn't necessarily help matters, it's clear as day that Holmes has his own issues well beyond that, which seem to mostly be a combination of, at times, a lack of both effort and concentration.

[Matt39]

He's a Super Bowl MVP, of course he is. Has he even hada 100 yard game as a Jet?

[THE ILK]

If Santonio is a #2, then where the hell is Cromartie?

[jetsjetsjetss]

He is no calvin johnson or randy moss but come on the man is a super bowl mvp. He would be money on a team that could throw... danny amendola isnt that food but had a great game the other day cause his qb could get it to him.

[shawn306]

He's a Super Bowl MVP, of course he is. Has he even hada 100 yard game as a Jet?

He had two in 2010 against the Browns and Texans.

He didn't have one with the Steelers in 2008 when he won the Super Bowl MVP but he had like 7 or 8 duing his time with the Steelers

[SenorGato]

Brandon Marshall lol.

The #1/#2/#3 stuff is nonsense. It's about how the offense and QB, mostly QB, use the WRs.

The Jets have a quietly very talented WR group, especially when Keller comes back. The OC and QB need to take advantage of that.

[#27TheDominator]

He's a Super Bowl MVP, of course he is. Has he even hada 100 yard game as a Jet?

He had two in three weeks during that Detroit-Cleveland-Houston run in 2010.

[#27TheDominator]

He had two in 2010 against the Browns and Texans.

He didn't have one with the Steelers in 2008 when he won the Super Bowl MVP but he had like 7 or 8 duing his time with the Steelers

Yeah, but I think he went for almost a buck fifty in the super bowl.

[Smashmouth]

He is no calvin johnson or randy moss but come on the man is a super bowl mvp. He would be money on a team that could throw... danny amendola isnt that food but had a great game the other day cause his qb could get it to him.

Desmond Howard and Larry Brown were SB MVP's as well ....would you have signed one of those guys ? Santonio Holmes has had 1 very good season sandwiched by a boat load of ****ing JAG. Im still waiting for the guy to make a tough catch in traffic without the safety of the sidelines. Every single pass that was contested in the slighest bit this weekend vs the Steelers resulted in a drop. Number 1 WR's make those tough catches to move the chains Holmes does not.

[Smashmouth]

Yeah, but I think he went for almost a buck fifty in the super bowl.

yep in typical Holmes fashion running wide open while the defense keyed on Hines Ward.

[whodeawhodat]

I think that Hill has the measurables to be a #1 receiver, he has to prove he has the ability/skill to be that #1. Early part of the season we should be feeding the deep ball to hill to open up the underneath stuff to Holmes. That would make this offense so much better than what we showed in Pitt. I dont know why we stopped taking shots down the field. that deep pass to Hill was close to a completion even though the defender was holding one of his arms down..

[stoicsentry]

His talent reminds me a lot of Laverneus Coles, except if I recall Coles made much less and was far less of a headcase.

Stephen Hill might be a legit #1. Let's hope.

[Bleedin Green]

He is no calvin johnson or randy moss but come on the man is a super bowl mvp. He would be money on a team that could throw... danny amendola isnt that food but had a great game the other day cause his qb could get it to him.

So was Deon Branch, and at least Branch was the #1 receiver on his own team at the time, which Holmes was not. I can see an argument being made in Holmes' favor, but having the sole means of evaluation be his performance in one game nearly 4 years ago is absurd.

[Bleedin Green]

Brandon Marshall lol.

The #1/#2/#3 stuff is nonsense. It's about how the offense and QB, mostly QB, use the WRs.

The Jets have a quietly very talented WR group, especially when Keller comes back. The OC and QB need to take advantage of that.

Of course the QB plays a factor in the numbers a WR puts up, but this idea that some think the WR gets a pass for quitting on routes and dropping balls simply because his QB isn't great is a bit ridiculous. We must again refer back to the reality that it's entirely possible for more than one individual to suck at their respective jobs at the same time.

[Bleedin Green]

His talent reminds me a lot of Laverneus Coles, except if I recall Coles made much less and was far less of a headcase.

Stephen Hill might be a legit #1. Let's hope.

Well I don't know about far less of a headcase, but I can certainly see your point.

[#27TheDominator]

yep in typical Holmes fashion running wide open while the defense keyed on Hines Ward.

No agenda here. Hines Ward that chop blocking little ****er never benefitted from guys covering other options like Holmes, Burress or Wallace. The fact is that he had sh*t numbers just like Holmes does now before Burress showed up.

[slats]

Hill has that potential, but he's not really even close to being a number one just yet. It's Holmes' job by default.

[Strangefunk]

By default...that is what I was thinking..the guy is a #1 by default. I always thought that Braylon Edwards was our #1. That guy would battle for balls, could stretch the field and made the tough catches. Sigh, hopefully Hill develops...

[SenorGato]

Of course the QB plays a factor in the numbers a WR puts up, but this idea that some think the WR gets a pass for quitting on routes and dropping balls simply because his QB isn't great is a bit ridiculous. We must again refer back to the reality that it's entirely possible for more than one individual to suck at their respective jobs at the same time.

Yeah if there's one thing top NFL WRs are known for its going hard when the QB sucks and can't get them the ball.

Holmes was a real burden in 2010, the only full season Sanchez was half decent in.

[bitonti]

just to be clear the definition of whether Holmes is a number one doesn't come from (just) the Jets or their fans. It comes from the other team. If you were the defensive coordinator of the Dolphins, who do you consider to be the Jets #1? The answer is Holmes. Whether you like him or not, he draws the other team's coverage (safety help) and that's what makes him a #1.

[JiFtheOracle]

By default, he's our #1. I'll admit, he hasnt lived up to what I thought he could bring to the table for this team especially after how awesome he was for us in 2010 and was clearly Mark's favorite receiver. Part of this was the system and part the Qb. However, he's not the prototypical #1 WR that you'd want starting on the outside that I thought he could be for the Jets. Hill has the make up based on his size and speed, but he doesnt have near the polish as Holmes.

The fact of the matter is, Holmes is far and away the best playmaker on this offense. And its not even close. The guy is an incredible talent. He was literally abusing Taylor in the first half. LeBeau recognized that, started playing more physical at the line and was rolling safety help his way the entire 2nd half. He basically dared the Jets to throw to someone else and they couldnt. Partly because nobody else could get open which led to the force feeding we witnessed and Holmes didnt step up to the challenge.

So to answer the question, he's probably better suited as a #2 where he can be deadly and be more effective than he is now, but he's a #1 for the NY Jets.

[Bleedin Green]

Yeah if there's one thing top NFL WRs are known for its going hard when the QB sucks and can't get them the ball.

Holmes was a real burden in 2010, the only full season Sanchez was half decent in.

Yes, everything always must be one singular person's fault, as it is entirely impossible for multiple players to simultaneously have their own problems. That damn Sanchez making Holmes drop balls and quit on routes, what's his problem, right? I mean, it's not like there are any WRs out there who have been successful despite playing with one of the NFL's very many unimpressive QBs. I mean just look at the 2011 season, there certainly weren't any WRs playing with those types of QBs who outperformed Holmes, right? I mean outside of Larry Fitzgerald, Dwayne Bowe, Percy Harvin, Brandon Marshall, Steve Johnson, Reggie Wayne, Pierre Garcon, Michael Crabtree, Jabar Gaffney... I think you get the point.

You need to come to grips with the fact that the failures of one person do not automatically exonerate another of all of their own blatant failures.

[T0mShane]

By default, he's our #1. I'll admit, he hasnt lived up to what I thought he could bring to the table

Hey, that's great, buddy. Now get cracking on those other eleven steps and you might just be tolerable by Christmas.

[Bleedin Green]

just to be clear the definition of whether Holmes is a number one doesn't come from (just) the Jets or their fans. It comes from the other team. If you were the defensive coordinator of the Dolphins, who do you consider to be the Jets #1? The answer is Holmes. Whether you like him or not, he draws the other team's coverage (safety help) and that's what makes him a #1.

Yes, but I think that's rather more a question of whether it's by default as currently being the Jets' best WR, or if his ability and the level he plays at truly distinguishes him as a player that should/would be considered a #1 WR on teams throughout the NFL. Wayne Hunter started the entire season at RT for the Jets last year, that doesn't necessarily qualify him to be a starting-caliber RT, especially considering he never was prior to that and no longer is one now. Obviously Holmes is no Hunter, but I'm simply using an extreme example to make the point.

[Bleedin Green]

By default, he's our #1. I'll admit, he hasnt lived up to what I thought he could bring to the table for this team especially after how awesome he was for us in 2010 and was clearly Mark's favorite receiver. Part of this was the system and part the Qb. However, he's not the prototypical #1 WR that you'd want starting on the outside that I thought he could be for the Jets. Hill has the make up based on his size and speed, but he doesnt have near the polish as Holmes.

The fact of the matter is, Holmes is far and away the best playmaker on this offense. And its not even close. The guy is an incredible talent. He was literally abusing Taylor in the first half. LeBeau recognized that, started playing more physical at the line and was rolling safety help his way the entire 2nd half. He basically dared the Jets to throw to someone else and they couldnt. Partly because nobody else could get open which led to the force feeding we witnessed and Holmes didnt step up to the challenge.

So to answer the question, he's probably better suited as a #2 where he can be deadly and be more effective than he is now, but he's a #1 for the NY Jets.

Well put, and I would certainly agree with this.

[Jetsfan80]

According to FO, Hill has been our best WR, followed by Kerley: http://footballoutsiders.com/stats/wr

Holmes checks in at a 37 % catch rate. Ouch.

[#27TheDominator]

Yes, but I think that's rather more a question of whether it's by default as currently being the Jets' best WR, or if his ability and the level he plays at truly distinguishes him as a player that should/would be considered a #1 WR on teams throughout the NFL. Wayne Hunter started the entire season at RT for the Jets last year, that doesn't necessarily qualify him to be a starting-caliber RT, especially considering he never was prior to that and no longer is one now. Obviously Holmes is no Hunter, but I'm simply using an extreme example to make the point.

I find it amusing that we are on a board where people can't accept the simple fact that a #1 WR is just the best WR on the team, but they will call any first round draft pick starter a "Franchise QB". #1 WR is a simple position, like FB or TE.

[SenorGato]

Yes, everything always must be one singular person's fault, as it is entirely impossible for multiple players to simultaneously have their own problems. That damn Sanchez making Holmes drop balls and quit on routes, what's his problem, right? I mean, it's not like there are any WRs out there who have been successful despite playing with one of the NFL's very many unimpressive QBs. I mean just look at the 2011 season, there certainly weren't any WRs playing with those types of QBs who outperformed Holmes, right? I mean outside of Larry Fitzgerald, Dwayne Bowe, Percy Harvin, Brandon Marshall, Steve Johnson, Reggie Wayne, Pierre Garcon, Michael Crabtree, Jabar Gaffney... I think you get the point.

You need to come to grips with the fact that the failures of one person do not automatically exonerate another of all of their own blatant failures.

Everyone drops balls. It's the nature of the position. When it happens to a player it looks really, really bad and ugly. Holmes is no exception tot hat. Someone said it the other day, there's about a dozen passes to Holmes from Sanchez that get over thrown or under thrown.

As far as the WRs...Fitzgerald is one of the few actual elites in the sport...big meh on Bowe and Marshall, they're loser versions of Holmes...Harvin is dirty and is, again, amongst the best of the best offensive playmakers in the league....Johnson is meh and Fitzgerald was a more competent QB than Sanchez last year...Holmes is better than Garcon and Crabtree, doubling Crabtree's TD totals last year despite 20 less catches. 2 more than Garcon , who caught his passes against prevent Ds in a dome last year, in 20 less catches...

You need to come to the grips with the fact that the failures of one particular person has had gigantic and direct effects on the production and perceived effectiveness of those around him.

Like JiF said, Holmes is this offense's best and/or most proven playmaker by far, and has been since he got here. The vast majority of the problem lies in the fact that he and the QB have only connected 110 times in the past 2.13 seasons in an era when top WRs can land 80 catches a year no matter how many passes they drop.

[JiFtheOracle]

The vast majority of the problem lies in the fact that he and the QB have only connected 110 times in the past 2.13 seasons in an era when top WRs can land 80 catches a year no matter how many passes they drop.

Boom! Players who've led the league in drops over the past 3 years of "catcheable" balls. Wes Welker, Brandon Marshall, Roddy White, Dwayne Bowe and D. Jax.

[whodeawhodat]

By default, he's our #1. I'll admit, he hasnt lived up to what I thought he could bring to the table for this team especially after how awesome he was for us in 2010 and was clearly Mark's favorite receiver. Part of this was the system and part the Qb. However, he's not the prototypical #1 WR that you'd want starting on the outside that I thought he could be for the Jets. Hill has the make up based on his size and speed, but he doesnt have near the polish as Holmes.

The fact of the matter is, Holmes is far and away the best playmaker on this offense. And its not even close. The guy is an incredible talent. He was literally abusing Taylor in the first half. LeBeau recognized that, started playing more physical at the line and was rolling safety help his way the entire 2nd half. He basically dared the Jets to throw to someone else and they couldnt. Partly because nobody else could get open which led to the force feeding we witnessed and Holmes didnt step up to the challenge.

So to answer the question, he's probably better suited as a #2 where he can be deadly and be more effective than he is now, but he's a #1 for the NY Jets.

True story.

[Bleedin Green]

Everyone drops balls. It's the nature of the position. When it happens to a player it looks really, really bad and ugly. Holmes is no exception tot hat. Someone said it the other day, there's about a dozen passes to Holmes from Sanchez that get over thrown or under thrown.

And there's about a dozen passes which Holmes quits on the route or drops the ball. Throughout the history of the NFL, it's been proven time and again that the former is much more common trend than the latter. Nobody is saying Sanchez isn't a crappy QB, but on all of those occasions when the ball gets to Holmes (or to where Holmes is supposed to be), it doesn't matter who the hell threw the ball, any failures from that moment forward are all on him.

As far as the WRs...Fitzgerald is one of the few actual elites in the sport...big meh on Bowe and Marshall, they're loser versions of Holmes...

Based on what? Neither can stake a claim to particularly superior QB play and yet both have significantly outperformed Holmes throughout the entirety of all three's careers.

Harvin is dirty and is, again, amongst the best of the best offensive playmakers in the league....Johnson is meh and Fitzgerald was a more competent QB than Sanchez last year...Holmes is better than Garcon and Crabtree, doubling Crabtree's TD totals last year despite 20 less catches. 2 more than Garcon , who caught his passes against prevent Ds in a dome last year, in 20 less catches...

Try as you might, the slight difference in Sanchez's and Fitzpatrick's play last year (which actually included Sanchez throwing more TDs and less INTs btw) doesn't quite account for the significant disparity in Johnson's and Holmes' numbers. Garcon beat Holmes by a wide margin in every category but TDs despite being his team's #2 WR (the rest of your excuses for this one are laughable nonsense) and Crabtree caught 4 less TDs from a QB who threw 9 less TDs.

You need to come to the grips with the fact that the failures of one particular person has had gigantic and direct effects on the production and perceived effectiveness of those around him.

Again, that doesn't explain why Holmes is routinely vastly outproduced by WRs on other teams with crappy QBs.

Like JiF said, Holmes is this offense's best and/or most proven playmaker by far, and has been since he got here. The vast majority of the problem lies in the fact that he and the QB have only connected 110 times in the past 2.13 seasons in an era when top WRs can land 80 catches a year no matter how many passes they drop.

Even if he is this team's best WR, that doesn't make him infallible, and that doesn't excuse him for his own personal inconsistency, in which try as you might to pass the buck, nobody can give an even slightly intelligent reasoning behind how the QB is responsible for a receiver dropping passes and quitting on routes. Not to mention, you seem to ignore the fact that if the problem was 100% solely Sanchez's for Holmes less than impressive numbers, how come Holmes has been outproduced by others on the Jets throughout his entire time here? I seriously think it's about time you learned a little something about accountability.

[Bleedin Green]

Boom! Players who've led the league in drops over the past 3 years of "catcheable" balls. Wes Welker, Brandon Marshall, Roddy White, Dwayne Bowe and D. Jax.

So wait, which is it? Do you agree with your own original post that Holmes is the Jets' best WR, but has had some struggles in the #1 WR role, and would be better suited as a very good #2 WR? Or is absolutely everything he ever does wrong all completely Sanchez's fault regardless of what actually happens on the field, because it all has to be Sanchez's fault at all times (in order to justify someone still having a raging hard-on for the Jets' former OC) and therefore all other Jets' offensive players and coaches are completely infallible?