Jets | Two signed, two cut

[FoxJet]

Jets | Two signed, two cut 
Tue, 23 Jul 2013 08:19:12 -0700

The New York Jets signed free-agent OT Patrick Scales (Dolphins) and OT J.B. Shugarts (Cowboys) and released WR Thomas Mayo and OT Mark Popek.

Comment | Source: New York Metro - Kristian Dyer | Share:  

Read more: http://www.kffl.com/hotw/nfl#ixzz2ZsmZYL8f

[Sperm Edwards]

I totally know who all of these guys are. 

[JoeKlecko]

I totally know who all of these guys are. 

 

Then please enlighten me about Scales and Shugarts.  Is this move a sign that Aboushi and perhaps Winters are not all that or perhaps that one of them is injured, and they're concerned about OT depth?  Is it a sign that they're looking to dump Vlad?  Are they just training camp bodies?  Mayo must really suck.  The Jets are headed to TC and "hold the Mayo".

[flgreen]

Then please enlighten me about Scales and Shugarts.  Is this move a sign that Aboushi and perhaps Winters are not all that or perhaps that one of them is injured, and they're concerned about OT depth?  Is it a sign that they're looking to dump Vlad?  Are they just training camp bodies?  Mayo must really suck.  The Jets are headed to TC and "hold the Mayo".

Yeah

 

Makes you wonder how well the OTA's and Mini Camp went for the OT's.   A lot of people had Mayo penciled in as making the 53.  I'm surprised about that move

[Jetfan13]

signing a free agent from the Dolfags doesn't make me feel all giddy inside,

[pointman]

I totally know who all of these guys are. 

They also go by "Vad's replacement". 

[Bleedin Green]

Then please enlighten me about Scales and Shugarts.  Is this move a sign that Aboushi and perhaps Winters are not all that or perhaps that one of them is injured, and they're concerned about OT depth?  Is it a sign that they're looking to dump Vlad?  Are they just training camp bodies?  Mayo must really suck.  The Jets are headed to TC and "hold the Mayo".

 

I can assure you Sperm was being a tad sarcastic.  I wouldn't take this to mean anything about Winters, as its been said from pretty much the day he was drafted they're looking at him as a guard.  While it could very well mean they aren't too thrilled with their depth at OT (we all know Vlad sucks, and Aboushi is more of a long-term project, as he has never played the position before), these guys could also very well be nothing more than camp bodies.  Not exactly like you're usually looking at top notch talent sitting on the street in late July.

[flgreen]

I can assure you Sperm was being a tad sarcastic.  I wouldn't take this to mean anything about Winters, as its been said from pretty much the day he was drafted they're looking at him as a guard.  While it could very well mean they aren't too thrilled with their depth at OT (we all know Vlad sucks, and Aboushi is more of a long-term project, as he has never played the position before), these guys could also very well be nothing more than camp bodies.  Not exactly like you're usually looking at top notch talent sitting on the street in late July.

Or perhaps the FBI has been snooping around

 

(Just stirring poop)

[faba]

Expect to never hear from these guys again. They are just fodder for training camp

[#27TheDominator]

Popek was a Big East guy at USF I think and Mayo was a guy from California PA which is where priority FA Rontez Miles went. He was in camp with the Raiders last year, but didn't make it out.  This calls Scales an OT, but most of what I have read has him as a LS. Shugarts apparently bounced around practice squads with the Browns and Bills last season. I heard the name, but knew nothing about him, not even his position.

[JoeKlecko]

Expect to never hear from these guys again. They are just fodder for training camp

 

That's what I thought, but why two OTs?  They have Brick, Howard, Colon, Aboushi, Vlad, and Winters all of whom have played OT.  I know they want to limit Colon's snaps, and probably want Winters to focus on OG.  But they had Gilleo and Popek who probably were only camp fodder and who knew the system (supposedly) already.  I don't understand why they'd dump those two guys and bring in two new guys who don't know anything. 

[#27TheDominator]

That's what I thought, but why two OTs?  They have Brick, Howard, Colon, Aboushi, Vlad, and Winters all of whom have played OT.  I know they want to limit Colon's snaps, and probably want Winters to focus on OG.  But they had Gilleo and Popek who probably were only camp fodder and who knew the system (supposedly) already.  I don't understand why they'd dump those two guys and bring in two new guys who don't know anything. 

 

Like I said, one of them is a long snapper.  They cut a long snapper when they signed Winslow.  They probably wanted "COMPETITION!" at every spot.  They have a sh*tload of crappy WR in camp already.  They cut one for a LS and went OT for OT.  Can't try to read anything into moves when the roster is near 90.

[faba]

The only moves I would get semi interested in right now is to bring in some wide receiver  they gave tryouts to.

[Sperm Edwards]

Then please enlighten me about Scales and Shugarts.  Is this move a sign that Aboushi and perhaps Winters are not all that or perhaps that one of them is injured, and they're concerned about OT depth?  Is it a sign that they're looking to dump Vlad?  Are they just training camp bodies?  Mayo must really suck.  The Jets are headed to TC and "hold the Mayo".

 

I totally don't know who any of these guys are.

[Stonehands]

I think Mayo is injured and that's why he was released.  The other move is switching up reserve tackles to someone with a little more upside. 

[Bleedin Green]

Popek was a Big East guy at USF I think and Mayo was a guy from California PA which is where priority FA Rontez Miles went. He was in camp with the Raiders last year, but didn't make it out.  This calls Scales an OT, but most of what I have read has him as a LS. Shugarts apparently bounced around practice squads with the Browns and Bills last season. I heard the name, but knew nothing about him, not even his position.

 

Yeah, the Jets listed Scales as a LS in their press release and had him listed as 6'4, 248, so there's no way in hell this guy is going anywhere near the OL.

[JoeKlecko]

I totally don't know who any of these guys are.

 

That's what I figured.  My response was tongue in cheek!

[bitonti]

the day they drafted Winters they also signed Stephen Peterman. So that kinda tells ya what they expect out of this guy in year 1 . 

[Sperm Edwards]

the day they drafted Winters they also signed Stephen Peterman. So that kinda tells ya what they expect out of this guy in year 1 . 

 

It tells me that Idzik plans ahead and doesn't put all his eggs in 1 basket with no backup plan.  They may totally think Winters will start year 1 game 1.  But he is a 3rd round rookie & therefore is not quite the sure thing that it is for Brick to start game 1 at left tackle.  So they picked up a dirt-cheap backup plan just in case he isn't ready yet (like rookie Slauson) or is a total flop who may never be ready (like Ducasse).

 

If they truly expected nothing out of him in year 1, and expected him to be on the bench as a backup all season, I sense they would have picked up a little more expensive starter than Peterman, who is making the vet minimum I think after a pretty poor showing in 2012.  

 

IMO they are treating this perfectly.  It is the exact way one would logically set up a real camp competition if planning it ahead on paper.

[bitonti]

 

If they truly expected nothing out of him in year 1, and expected him to be on the bench as a backup all season, I sense they would have picked up a little more expensive starter than Peterman, who is making the vet minimum I think after a pretty poor showing in 2012.  

 

 

the only problem with this logic is almost all the Jets fa signings make vet minimum. Different bonuses but all super cheap. 

[Larz]

it doesn't say much for your future prospects when you are listed as a number in the news headline

 

time to get an insurance license guys

[TechJet]

I totally know who all of these guys are. 

OK! so do tell.

[Sperm Edwards]

the only problem with this logic is almost all the Jets fa signings make vet minimum. Different bonuses but all super cheap. 

 

This is intended; it is not a problem.  The goal is to have the rookies play, not the veterans. 

 

One more time:  the cheap veterans are insurance policies in case the rookies are not ready to play yet.  The choice was never going to be rookie vs higher-priced veteran.

 

It was going to be either

1. rookie vs cheap veteran, or

2. rookie or bust

 

We went with option 2, which is my preference.  I don't like the idea of throwing $3M at a guard who you (ideally) don't want to use.  You find one for under $1M.  The leftover $2M you didn't spend is another $2M you have in a future year where we aren't in a total rebuilding/going-nowhere season.  No sense in throwing away good money on a guaranteed non-winner in 2013.

[bitonti]

  $2M you have in a future year where we aren't in a total rebuilding/going-nowhere season.   

 

i refuse to believe this is a going nowhere season. Every year is a chance for a turnaround. this idea that they need to be bad for 2 years and then mediocre for 5 years so they can be good in 2020 is not how the NFL works. 

[JoeKlecko]

i refuse to believe this is a going nowhere season. Every year is a chance for a turnaround. this idea that they need to be bad for 2 years and then mediocre for 5 years so they can be good in 2020 is not how the NFL works. 

 

Who said anything about 7 years?  Besides, statistics show that it's much easier to turn the team around after a bad season than it is after a mediocre one due to the draft and having better draft position.  Personally, I think it's gonna take 2-3 years for the team to be ultimately the competitive team they want, but that's if Rex either has learned the things he needed to learn and has made changes or is fired, and Smith and most the high draft picks work out.

[Sperm Edwards]

i refuse to believe this is a going nowhere season. Every year is a chance for a turnaround. this idea that they need to be bad for 2 years and then mediocre for 5 years so they can be good in 2020 is not how the NFL works. 

 

I don't know where you make the connection between having a zero-chance of a SB this year into a 7-year rebuilding process.

 

The extent to which the Jets had to rebuild, in addition to having what is going to be (barring unforeseen surprises) a very poor ability to pass the football due to the QB and receiver issues, means this is not a "typical" rebuild where teams are awesome the very year they decide to rebuild.  We will have less than half the starters from last season returning, a bunch of draft picks with no experience, and had severely limited ability to improve through FA (not that I'd want them to make major investments in any single players before their first rebuilding draft anyway, unless it was for a QB).

 

I think they'll be really good next year.  The extent to which the Jets will be realistic contenders will most likely depend upon Geno Smith.  If he sucks next year, forget it.  If he sucks this year so badly the team wants to draft a QB high in '14, you can probably forget it.

 

But your ridiculous extremes - that if I don't insist we're realistic contenders this year then I'm somehow advocating a 7 year rebuilding process - have nothing to do with anything being discussed here.

 

The Jets are not realistic SB contenders this year.  It is a rebuilding year and the GM doesn't seem like he is likely to throw an extra million or two here & there (like on a 1-year guard) when it's not going to get us significantly closer to a SB. And you should be happy about that.  I would hate to be in a position to add the requisite FA talent next season (or over the next couple of seasons) but we pissed that opportunity away on a guard we hope never starts, in a past season we knew we had no real shot in.  

[bitonti]

 

The Jets are not realistic SB contenders this year.  It is a rebuilding year and the GM doesn't seem like he is likely to throw an extra million or two here & there (like on a 1-year guard) when it's not going to get us significantly closer to a SB. And you should be happy about that.  I would hate to be in a position to add the requisite FA talent next season (or over the next couple of seasons) but we pissed that opportunity away on a guard we hope never starts, in a past season we knew we had no real shot in.  

 

the one move i disagree with was letting Laron landry go. He's the best safety this team had since Victor Green. People say he's expensive but it's the difference between 3 or 4 vet min guys or 1 great player. Garrard already wiped out and he won't be the only one.

 

As for rebuilding I don't even think it's a valid concept in the NFL. with 15-20% roster churn every year (minimum) on every team there is only reloading. 

[Bleedin Green]

the one move i disagree with was letting Laron landry go. He's the best safety this team had since Victor Green. People say he's expensive but it's the difference between 3 or 4 vet min guys or 1 great player. Garrard already wiped out and he won't be the only one.

 

As for rebuilding I don't even think it's a valid concept in the NFL. with 15-20% roster churn every year (minimum) on every team there is only reloading. 

 

Landry got paid $6 million / year after having his first healthy season in four years while creeping up on his 30s.  Not saying it would have been a horrible move, but hardly a slam dunk either as it's not just the cost that is the question, it's whether they can rely on Landry to continue to stay healthy.  It's one thing to roll the dice in those circumstances when you're working with a short deal and trying to load up for a run, it's quite another when you've got next to no cap room and are trying to rebuild your entire squad.

 

As far as the Garrard thing goes, you can keep droning on about it endlessly, but it ultimately had no impact on the Jets team.  Let's be honest, it's pretty obvious that you're still pissy because Idzik traded away your personal hero who wanted the amount of money you claimed he didn't, and therefore already dislike the guy and are trying to vilify everything he's done.  Also, interesting to note that retaining Landry would have been nearly impossible to afford if not for the eventual trade that you were so vehemently against and was far from a sure thing back when Landry got that contract.

[Sperm Edwards]

the one move i disagree with was letting Laron landry go. He's the best safety this team had since Victor Green. People say he's expensive but it's the difference between 3 or 4 vet min guys or 1 great player. Garrard already wiped out and he won't be the only one.

As for rebuilding I don't even think it's a valid concept in the NFL. with 15-20% roster churn every year (minimum) on every team there is only reloading.

I can understand liking Landry but you're wrong on the cost. He's much more than 3-4 minimum guys. Further, you can't cut 4 minimum salaries to make room; you have a minimum number of players that you must count the roster. In other words, if you're looking at the top 51 on a certain date you can't delete 4 and turn it into a 47 man roster to then add someone. You have to put 4 back again. It's a common math mistake when playing Madden with Jason's charts.

And you keep making the same point about following-year bounce-backs, and how it should pertain to the 2013 Jets, and are wrong every time you bring it up. Every other team with those quick turnarounds does not go through a rebuild anything like this "every year" as you've put it over & over. It is very uncommon to have this much turnover so all your examples are based on rebounding from prior years' poor records not from replacing 60% of last years' starters & I don't know, 30-60% of the backups.  We've cleaned house of everyone who wasn't on a (1) guaranteed deal (2) cheap rookie contract (3) cheap veteran contract, which means most of the roster (and most of the starting lineups) from last year is gone.

You show me a team that's done all that, with minimal cap room to do it, and bounced back that same year (with no obvious solution at QB, don't forget about that tidbit, so spare me the comparisons like the 2012 Colts).

[JoeKlecko]

the one move i disagree with was letting Laron landry go. He's the best safety this team had since Victor Green. People say he's expensive but it's the difference between 3 or 4 vet min guys or 1 great player. Garrard already wiped out and he won't be the only one.

 

As for rebuilding I don't even think it's a valid concept in the NFL. with 15-20% roster churn every year (minimum) on every team there is only reloading. 

 

When you have a horribly slow D, an incompetent QB, questionable (at best TEs and WRs), RBs who have injury histories (and also possible legal issues), and no depth, that's not reloading.  That's a rebuild and you know it if you're honest.

[bitonti]

 Let's be honest, it's pretty obvious that you're still pissy because Idzik traded away your personal hero 

 

It's great that you know my motivations so well. Can you be my therapist? 

[bitonti]

When you have a horribly slow D,  

 

when they replaced Laron with Dewan they got slower. Landry was one of the few premium athletes on the team. 

[bitonti]

 

You show me a team that's done all that, with minimal cap room to do it, and bounced back that same year (with no obvious solution at QB, don't forget about that tidbit, so spare me the comparisons like the 2012 Colts).

 

So just to be clear something has to have happened before for it to happen again? This team is not a Super Bowl contender but a winning season is not unthinkable. they were 6-10 last year not 1-15. We all cry and moan like mediocre is the same as awful but they were 2 wins away from .500. If the Jets win more than they lose it's not a throwaway or a rebuilding year. 

[Bleedin Green]

It's great that you know my motivations so well. Can you be my therapist? 

 

Sorry, that's not my line of work, but I could recommend you to another JN poster who might be able to help you out there if you like.

 

I assumed you're knowledgeable enough about football that you wouldn't truly believe some of the distorted narratives you like to post, and instead your penchant for clear misrepresentations of reality is intentional.  My apologies, I'll be sure not to make that mistake again.

[slats]

when they replaced Laron with Dewan they got slower. Landry was one of the few premium athletes on the team.

The Jets have very limited resources this year. They spent the money that could've gone to LaRon on two RBs. It's a calculated move. The offense needed much more help than the defense (which added two first rounders, anyway), and Rex & Co. may feel that a Bush or Allen is ready to step into a larger role.

With practically no money to work with, it's hard to judge Idzik this year - good or bad. Next year, when he's flush with cash, we'll have a much better idea of what Idzik's vision may look like.