Cimini: What We Learned in Detroit

[flgreen]

What we learned in Detroit

August, 10, 2013

Aug 10

5:36

PM ET

By Rich Cimini | ESPNNewYork.com

•  

CORTLAND, N.Y. -- Observations from the press box after the New York Jets' 26-17 loss to the Detroit Lions in the preseason opener:

1. A Rex-storm: I think people are getting carried away with Rex Ryan's admission that he missed plays on offense -- including a lot of Geno Smith -- because he was too busy with the defense on the sideline. Granted, it was highly unusual for a head coach to admit such a thing; most coaches would've talked around it by saying, "I need to watch the tape." But let's remember one thing: It was a preseason game. If it had been the regular season, yes, he'd deserve criticism.

Presumably, Ryan is using the preseason to fix a defense that has seven new starters. When the real games start, he'll be in head-coach mode, managing the entire game -- at least he'd better be. He took a heavy-handed approach with the defense in 2009 and 2010, and that didn't stop the Jets from making the playoffs, did it?

2. MartyBall: It serves no purpose to question play calling in the preseason -- coaches are in an experimental mode -- but it's worth noting that the Jets called 42 pass plays and only 16 runs against the Lions. Offensive coordinator Marty Mornhinweg is known as a pass-happy coach, a style that usually doesn't marry well with defensive-minded head coaches. Just saying.

[+] Enlarge

AP Photo/Scott BoehmJeff Cumberland scored in the first quarter. Last season, the Jets' offense didn't produce a TD until the fourth preseason game.

3. Off the Mark: I watched Mark Sanchez's pick-6 over and over, and I still can't believe he made that throw. Rookie fullback Tommy Bohanon has to do a better job of leaking out of the backfield, but he was on his knees -- knocked over by ex-Jet C.J. Mosley -- when Sanchez lobbed the pass. Sanchez, backpedaling in the face of pressure, panicked.

But let's give credit where it's due: On the 26-yard touchdown pass to Jeff Cumberland, Sanchez made a fantastic read. He recognized 3-by-2 coverage on the weak side, knowing the Lions had no deep help on the strong side, where Cumberland ran a seam route. Sanchez showed nice anticipation, releasing the ball a split-second before Cumberland broke away from the linebacker. As I noted Friday night, Sanchez has moved into the lead for the starting job.

4. The new Geno: Rookie QB Geno Smith played almost exclusively in the shotgun at West Virginia, so there was some question as to how he'd respond to playing under center in a traditional offense. There were no noticeable hiccups in the game. In fact, he was 3-for-3 for 27 yards under center and 3-for-4 for 20 yards from shotgun.

5. Rough debut: RG Willie Colon was a solid player for many years with the Steelers, but he got off to a shaky start in his Jets debut. He was called for two penalties, and that's noteworthy because he was the Steelers' most penalized offensive player last season -- 12 penalties. That's a crazy amount for an interior lineman. Colon also allowed the pressure that caused Smith to have a pass batted at the line.

6. Uh-oh, Oday: I think OT Oday Aboushi, a fifth-round pick from Virginia, is on the roster bubble. Aboushi got beat by rookie DE Devin Taylor on a strip sack of Greg McElroy, and he also was flagged for two penalties (one declined). The Jets are looking for a backup swing tackle. Aboushi is a candidate for the job, but so is J.B. Shugarts, a first-year player from Ohio State. Shugarts played 36 snaps in the game, more than any offensive lineman.

7. Big Mac under attack: You have to admire McElroy's moxie, but, man, he takes a lot of hits. He was sacked three times and absorbed what appeared to be a helmet-to-helmet hit on one play -- it wasn't called. McElroy said he was fine after the game, but he also said he was fine after last December's beatdown inflicted by the Chargers, and that turned out to be a concusssion. Either way, it looks like he has locked up the No. 3 job. He made nice improv play on his 9-yard touchdown pass to Zach Rogers.

8. J.J. is dy-no-mite: The coaches went into the game buzzing about former Eagles S Jaiquawn Jarrett, eager to see him in a game setting after impressive work on the practice field and in the classroom. He responded nicely and has leap frogged Antonio Allen on the depth chart, according to Ryan. Jarrett was a second-round pick in 2011, so you know the physical talent is there.

9. Silver-lining playbook: Looking for a positive from the game? The Jets scored two offensive touchdowns. A year ago, they didn't score one until the fourth preseason game -- and that came from the third-team offense.

10. Calling all runners: The Jets lost RB John Griffin (broken leg) for the season, testing their backfield depth, but they expect Chris Ivory (hamstring) and Joe McKnight (head) to practice Sunday. For Ivory, it would his first full practice of camp.

 

[SoFlaJets]

Vlad Ducasse looked like one of those automatic door openers that you see at the grocery store. He actually moved over so a guy could go right by him and destroy McElroy. It amazes me that perhaps the worst OLman that I have ever seen can still be on the Jets roster.

[pfilippone]

2. MartyBall: It serves no purpose to question play calling in the preseason -- coaches are in an experimental mode -- but it's worth noting that the Jets called 42 pass plays and only 16 runs against the Lions. Offensive coordinator Marty Mornhinweg is known as a pass-happy coach, a style that usually doesn't marry well with defensive-minded head coaches. Just saying.

 

Gotta call Cimini out on this one.

OK, I get that a 'ground-and-pound' ball control offense and a stifling defense makes a good combination. 

But why can't a pass-happy offense and a stifling defense be a good combination as well?

Seems to me that as long as you have a good defense and good offense, it doesn't matter if you run and play ball control to eat the clock or pass like crazy and leave tons of time on the clock?

Is this logic flawed? Please enlighten me.

[Larz]

Gotta call Cimini out on this one.

OK, I get that a 'ground-and-pound' ball control offense and a stifling defense makes a good combination. 

But why can't a pass-happy offense and a stifling defense be a good combination as well?

Seems to me that as long as you have a good defense and good offense, it doesn't matter if you run and play ball control to eat the clock or pass like crazy and leave tons of time on the clock?

Is this logic flawed? Please enlighten me.

 

 

throwing on 3rd and 3 and not making it

 

Houston Oilers[edit source | editbeta]

Ryan became the defensive coordinator in 1993, and his defensive team helped propel the Oilers to an 11-game winning streak at the end of the 1993 NFL season. Then the Oilers were upset by the Kansas City Chiefs, led by Joe Montana, in a home game during the divisional round of the 1993 - 94 playoffs. On January 2, 1994, Ryan was involved in a sideline altercation with the Oilers' offensive coordinator Kevin Gilbride during the nationally-telecast game.^[28]

Ryan had been criticizing Gilbride's "run and shoot", referring to it as the "chuck and duck."^[29] Ryan thought that last-minute defensive stands lost him two players to injuries when the offense could have simply run the clock out. At the end of the first half in the last game of the regular season against the New York Jets, Gilbride called a pass play, and whenCody Carlson fumbled the snap, Ryan started yelling at Gilbride, who then started walking towards Ryan, yelling back. When they were at arm's length, "Ryan ... punched Gilbride in the jaw"^[30] before linebacker Keith McCants and several other Oilers players separated them.^[31]

[pointman]

Get rid of Oday. 

[pfilippone]

throwing on 3rd and 3 and not making it

 

 

OH, OK.  So basically if we're gonna have a great defense and a crappy offense, then it should be a crappy running offense so it can run out the clock, and not wear out the great defense.  What a crap philosophy to have. Same crap as "prevent defense", "play not to lose", etc.   

[Larz]

OH, OK.  So basically if we're gonna have a great defense and a crappy offense, then it should be a crappy running offense so it can run out the clock, and not wear out the great defense.  What a crap philosophy to have. Same crap as "prevent defense", "play not to lose", etc.   

 

 

did you notice the name of the guy who threw the punch ?

[SayNoToDMC]

Gillbride has won 2 SB's as offensive coordinator of the Giants, Rex has 0 as Defensive Coordinator of the Jets. Kevin's winning that rivalry.

[bitonti]

Gillbride has won 2 SB's as offensive coordinator of the Giants, Rex has 0 as Defensive Coordinator of the Jets. Kevin's winning that rivalry.

 

Rex was never the DC of the Jets. Rex has a ring as the DC with the Ravens. 

[SayNoToDMC]

Rex was never the DC of the Jets. Rex has a ring as the DC with the Ravens.

Rex is starting his 5th year as DC

[bitonti]

Rex is starting his 5th year as DC

 

Rex Ryan has the most playoff wins of any head coach of the Jets, ever. Whoever you think the next guy is gonna be, I guaruntee he'll be worse than Rex.

[SayNoToDMC]

Rex Ryan has the most playoff wins of any head coach of the Jets, ever. Whoever you think the next guy is gonna be, I guaruntee he'll be worse than Rex.

Maybe, Rex can obviously coach a SB level defense but he can't coach a.SB level team. He just proved it again admitting he didn't even watch the offense against Detroit. He doesn't seem to learn at all from his failures. What's the point in keeping him? There's only 1 goal in football, he's not getting us there

[Larz]

Gillbride has won 2 SB's as offensive coordinator of the Giants, Rex has 0 as Defensive Coordinator of the Jets. Kevin's winning that rivalry.

 

 

it's actually a pretty close situation this year with a defensive ryan in the hotseat as HC with a "chuck and duck" OC.  I think that is the point cimini was making.  how many failed 3rd and 3's with an incomplete cute pass play before rex gets in MM's face on the sidelines for the whole world to see ?

 

could be his undoing when you think about it

 

of course if there was a smart QB out there, it could work, but.........

[bitonti]

Maybe, Rex can obviously coach a SB level defense but he can't coach a.SB level team. He just proved it again admitting he didn't even watch the offense against Detroit. He doesn't seem to learn at all from his failures. What's the point in keeping him? There's only 1 goal in football, he's not getting us there

Rex watching the defense is playing to his strengths. Asking him to learn the offense might as well ask him to learn chinese. Better to get a translator.

[dbatesman]

Rex Ryan has the most playoff wins of any head coach of the Jets, ever.

The most hallowed record in professional sports

[Getting Comfortable]

The most hallowed record in professional sports

He's our Babe Ruth!

[SayNoToDMC]

Rex watching the defense is playing to his strengths. Asking him to learn the offense might as well ask him to learn chinese. Better to get a translator.

Like Tony Sparano? that tough sumabitch that reminded Rex of himself. Nobody is asking him to call the plays on offense, he should have a clue wtf is going on though given his job is on the line and he still doesn't even pretend to care

[pfilippone]

Rex was never the DC of the Jets. Rex has a ring as the DC with the Ravens. 

 

Not that it matters a whole lot (only Super Bowl wins matter), but Rex was D-Line coach when he picked up his ring in 2000, not defensive coordinator.

 

Rex Ryan has the most playoff wins of any head coach of the Jets, ever. Whoever you think the next guy is gonna be, I guaruntee he'll be worse than Rex.

 

That's more a reflection on the Jets losing history than Rex's bravado.

 

[Hey mods this multiquote feature rocks!]

[MexiRoll6]

Vlad Ducasse looked like one of those automatic door openers that you see at the grocery store. He actually moved over so a guy could go right by him and destroy McElroy. It amazes me that perhaps the worst OLman that I have ever seen can still be on the Jets roster.

Ducasse is Wayne Hunter in disguise. really though, no Jets o-lineman really played all that well. Colon had a pair of bad penalties and Howard certainly didn't hold up well at right tackle either. Jets couldn't run the ball for nothing, but maybe Ivory's return? will help. Peterman looks like the Pillsbury dough boy, so I really hope Winters can get in there and show something.

[MexiRoll6]

The most hallowed record in professional sports

Rex's four playoff wins is the most in Jets history. Sanchez was the QB in those games, so does that make him the BEST QB? Does it make Rex Ryan the best HC the Jets ever had? No and no. In a 'what have you done lately' NFL, how many playoff wins does he have, oh say, in the last two years, going on three.

[Larz]

Rex's four playoff wins is the most in Jets history. Sanchez was the QB in those games, so does that make him the BEST QB? Does it make Rex Ryan the best HC the Jets ever had? No and no. In a 'what have you done lately' NFL, how many playoff wins does he have, oh say, in the last two years, going on three.

 

 

+1000000  YOU TELL HIM !

[MexiRoll6]

throwing on 3rd and 3 and not making it

 

Houston Oilers[edit source | editbeta]

Ryan became the defensive coordinator in 1993, and his defensive team helped propel the Oilers to an 11-game winning streak at the end of the 1993 NFL season. Then the Oilers were upset by the Kansas City Chiefs, led by Joe Montana, in a home game during the divisional round of the 1993 - 94 playoffs. On January 2, 1994, Ryan was involved in a sideline altercation with the Oilers' offensive coordinator Kevin Gilbride during the nationally-telecast game.^[28]

Ryan had been criticizing Gilbride's "run and shoot", referring to it as the "chuck and duck."^[29] Ryan thought that last-minute defensive stands lost him two players to injuries when the offense could have simply run the clock out. At the end of the first half in the last game of the regular season against the New York Jets, Gilbride called a pass play, and whenCody Carlson fumbled the snap, Ryan started yelling at Gilbride, who then started walking towards Ryan, yelling back. When they were at arm's length, "Ryan ... punched Gilbride in the jaw"^[30] before linebacker Keith McCants and several other Oilers players separated them.^[31]

That was Buddy Ryan, not Rex.  It would have been hilarious, but the Jets lost 24-0 and were knocked from the playoffs and Bruce Coslet was fired a week later. Another lost Jets season.

[Larz]

That was Buddy Ryan, not Rex.  It would have been hilarious, but the Jets lost 24-0 and were knocked from the playoffs and Bruce Coslet was fired a week later. Another lost Jets season.

 

 

WAIT, WHAT ?  that wasn't rex ?!?!  well I have egg on my face

[Integrity28]

Gotta call Cimini out on this one.

OK, I get that a 'ground-and-pound' ball control offense and a stifling defense makes a good combination. 

But why can't a pass-happy offense and a stifling defense be a good combination as well?

Seems to me that as long as you have a good defense and good offense, it doesn't matter if you run and play ball control to eat the clock or pass like crazy and leave tons of time on the clock?

Is this logic flawed? Please enlighten me.

 

Our RB are all banged up. We have a QB competition going on for all 3 QB spots. It's preseason week 1, so nothing matters other than getting to see what guys can do. 

 

Recipe for lots of passes. 

 

Not sure what the point of Cimini even bringing this up is, tbh.

[bitonti]

Rex's four playoff wins is the most in Jets history. Sanchez was the QB in those games, so does that make him the BEST QB? Does it make Rex Ryan the best HC the Jets ever had? No and no. 

 

just to summarize, Rex doesn't get credit for winning playoff games and apparently neither does Mark. Who won those games exactly?

 

I've seen the theory that the Jets surrounded Mark with a good team and a great defense, so Mark doesn't deserve the credit for 4 road playoff wins. Ok, fair enough. 

 

but we still want to deny Rex getting credit? 

 

the "logic" on this board is Mark won playoff games and he sucks therefore Rex also sucks. It makes no damn sense.

 

Someone should get the credit right? are we giving the credit to Mangini? Or the spirit of Weeb? 

[#27TheDominator]

Our RB are all banged up. We have a QB competition going on for all 3 QB spots. It's preseason week 1, so nothing matters other than getting to see what guys can do. 

 

Recipe for lots of passes. 

 

Not sure what the point of Cimini even bringing this up is, tbh.

 

 

That's true.  I think people have just been waiting for it though because Mornhinweg was pass crazy in Philly, even with Nick Foles. During the regular season.

[Integrity28]

just to summarize, Rex doesn't get credit for winning playoff games and apparently neither does Mark. Who won those games exactly?

 

I've seen the theory that the Jets surrounded Mark with a good team and a great defense, so Mark doesn't deserve the credit for 4 road playoff wins. Ok, fair enough. 

 

but we still want to deny Rex getting credit? 

 

the "logic" on this board is Mark won playoff games and he sucks therefore Rex also sucks. It makes no damn sense.

 

Someone should get the credit right? are we giving the credit to Mangini? Or the spirit of Weeb? 

 

Why does it matter so much whether or not Rex/Mark get credit for winning playoff games.

 

Lots of coaches and QBs have won playoff games and then gone on to do squat else the rest of their time in the league. What is the statute of limitations on playoff wins of the past, and when can we pro-actively talk about how bad the team is now, versus, the resume highlights of the 2 main causes for why this team sucks?

[bitonti]

Why does it matter so much whether or not Rex/Mark get credit for winning playoff games.

 

Lots of coaches and QBs have won playoff games and then gone on to do squat else the rest of their time in the league. What is the statute of limitations on playoff wins of the past, and when can we pro-actively talk about how bad the team is now, versus, the resume highlights of the 2 main causes for why this team sucks?

 

Im just pointing out the so called logic. You say why does it matter, apparently it matters cause people keep trying to explain it away. Someone should get credit for those wins. 

 

fwiw the team sucks cause they have 4 good players. Wilk, Cro, Brick and Mangold. Maybe coples, millner, richardson, hill etc.

 

But basically they have no talent. Who the head coach is doesn't change that. Rex isn't why the team sucks, he's one of the team's only assets. If he can get this team anywhere near .500 it will be a miracle coaching job. 

[Integrity28]

Im just pointing out the so called logic. You say why does it matter, apparently it matters cause people keep trying to explain it away. Someone should get credit for those wins. 

 

fwiw the team sucks cause they have 4 good players. Wilk, Cro, Brick and Mangold. Maybe coples, millner, richardson, hill etc.

 

But basically they have no talent. Who the head coach is doesn't change that. Rex isn't why the team sucks, he's one of the team's only assets. If he can get this team anywhere near .500 it will be a miracle coaching job. 

 

Sorry, wasn't meaning to single you out with those questions - I was speaking more in general. I don't know why this ongoing conversation about the playoff wins even persists. I think it's irrelevant that they won games in the past, only thing that matters is what they do now.

 

Players get better and they get worse, so do coaches. Good teams know when to cut bait on both when they are trending down, regardless of what they may have done in the past.

[whodeawhodat]

Sorry, wasn't meaning to single you out with those questions - I was speaking more in general. I don't know why this ongoing conversation about the playoff wins even persists. I think it's irrelevant that they won games in the past, only thing that matters is what they do now.

 

Players get better and they get worse, so do coaches. Good teams know when to cut bait on both when they are trending down, regardless of what they may have done in the past.

 

Personally I think that Rex will get better.  First time HC coming over from a DC position will take some time to hit his full potential.  He had very good years his first 2 years as a HC and set the bar very high for himself(verbally as well as what he accomplished).  I hope we are patient with him as an organization even if our fans are not.

[Integrity28]

Personally I think that Rex will get better.  First time HC coming over from a DC position will take some time to hit his full potential.  He had very good years his first 2 years as a HC and set the bar very high for himself(verbally as well as what he accomplished).  I hope we are patient with him as an organization even if our fans are not.

 

Most days I agree with you on this. Sometimes I just lose my patience with him, because he's a clod.

[Klecko73isGod]

Sorry, wasn't meaning to single you out with those questions - I was speaking more in general. I don't know why this ongoing conversation about the playoff wins even persists. I think it's irrelevant that they won games in the past, only thing that matters is what they do now.

 

Players get better and they get worse, so do coaches. Good teams know when to cut bait on both when they are trending down, regardless of what they may have done in the past.

 

 

I only disagree with the comment "good teams know when to cut bait on both."

 

I think a lot of teams get lucky there. 

 

I can only think of one current NFL GM with an outstanding track record of knowing when to cut guys loose and that is Ozzie Newsome and even he's made a few mistakes here and there. 

[Integrity28]

I only disagree with the comment "good teams know when to cut bait on both."

 

I think a lot of teams get lucky there. 

 

I can only think of one current NFL GM with an outstanding track record of knowing when to cut guys loose and that is Ozzie Newsome and even he's made a few mistakes here and there. 

 

True indeed.