In Last Five Years: Coughlin and Rex Have Identical Record 36-31

[kelticwizard]

Unspoken in all this talk about keeping Rex in the future and why didn't Woody get rid of Rex along with Tannenbaum, etc., is the fact that Woody has already let one defensive genius who did badly his first time around as head coach get away from him and win numerous Lombardi Trophies.

 

Very likely Woody figured, okay Rex's first few years were up and down-better than that last guy-why let Rex have his second chance with another team so he can make me look stupid again?  I'll give Rex his second chance right here and see what happens.

 

Woody is  still smarting from being the football equivalent of the record company who dropped the Beatles before they hit it big, and he is loathe to repeat the experience.

[Lizard King]

Unspoken in all this talk about keeping Rex in the future and why didn't Woody get rid of Rex along with Tannenbaum, etc., is the fact that Woody has already let one defensive genius who did badly his first time around as head coach get away from him and win numerous Lombardi Trophies.

Very likely Woody figured, okay Rex's first few years were up and down-better than that last guy-why let Rex have his second chance with another team so he can make me look stupid again? I'll give Rex his second chance right here and see what happens.

Woody is still smarting from being the football equivalent of the record company who dropped the Beatles before they hit it big, and he is loathe to repeat the experience.

BB resigned. Kraft made him an offer. BB wanted Leon Hess, not Woody. He is no fool

[kelticwizard]

Perhaps, but it still amounts to letting him get away.

 

At least, I bet Woody thinks this way.

[jack48]

It is not simply a question of wins and losses. It is about having your team playing well going into the playoffs and Coughlin has managed that twice. He went to the SB as an underdog team both times. It is not just a mater of having guys play hard for you, it is a matter of having them play their best at the right time. In two AFC championship games the Jets had two halves that were just abominable. You cannot have terrible halves against the best teams in the biggest games. You have to prepare against that. So I would say that the evidence shows Coughlin to have been the better coach. And yes, he could get fired before Rex, but he at least has 2 SB victories to look back on. Sure Rex can get better, if he ever learns to calm down and make rational in game decisions about time, down and distance. And if he ever learns to coach the entire team and not abrogate nearly half his responsibilities to another guy. But I have not seen that so far this year. I am an optimist.  I did not want Rex back with a new GM but now I want him to do well enough to get an extension because I want my team to do well. Does not mean I do not have critical concerns about his Head coaching chops.

[The Crusher]

It is not simply a question of wins and losses. It is about having your team playing well going into the playoffs and Coughlin has managed that twice. He went to the SB as an underdog team both times. It is not just a mater of having guys play hard for you, it is a matter of having them play their best at the right time. In two AFC championship games the Jets had two halves that were just abominable. You cannot have terrible halves against the best teams in the biggest games. You have to prepare against that. So I would say that the evidence shows Coughlin to have been the better coach. And yes, he could get fired before Rex, but he at least has 2 SB victories to look back on. Sure Rex can get better, if he ever learns to calm down and make rational in game decisions about time, down and distance. And if he ever learns to coach the entire team and not abrogate nearly half his responsibilities to another guy. But I have not seen that so far this year. I am an optimist.  I did not want Rex back with a new GM but now I want him to do well enough to get an extension because I want my team to do well. Does not mean I do not have critical concerns about his Head coaching chops.

 

 

Excellent post.  Continuity at head coach is important.  I also think the rest of the coaching staff is vital to the success of any coach.  Putting Rex with a crappy OC is probably worse than putting most coaches with a crappy oc.  He does have his shortcomings but between Idzik and Marty I think half way through the year you extend the guy.  Partly because I do think he will improve and partly because I think he has a shot to win it over the next three years.  Next years draft will make us a very young team and allow us to provide depth.  Idzik seems to be a very good GM.  Rex losing weight and taking control of his life has to be a small clue he is trying to improve.  

[CTM]

If only the Steelers or Colts could have dropped 2 punts that the Jets recovered during those AFCC games, Rex would have made the Super Bowl and who knows what would have happened once they got there.  Or if maybe he could have played Alex Smith instead of HOF'ers in the those games, the results would be different.  

 

Another cute little fact, Rex Ryan has more playoff wins that Bill Belicheck during his tenure as the Jets HC.

 

 

Rex shouldn't even have made the playoffs year 1. Belichick has 4 division titles and has hosted playoff games. Dumb comment

[Jettington]

Rex shouldn't even have made the playoffs year 1. Belichick has 4 division titles and has hosted playoff games. Dumb comment

"shouldn't" means nothing in sports; all that matters is what did happen and what didn't, and Rex capitalized on that playoff appearance.

It's easy to win divisions and host playoff games when you have a HoF QB and the rest of the division has no answer at QB, does anyone doubt that if Tom Brady was on the Jets teams in 2009 and 2010 that the Jets would have won back to back Super Bowls? I certainly don't.

[CTM]

"shouldn't" means nothing in sports; all that matters is what did happen and what didn't, and Rex capitalized on that playoff appearance.

It's easy to win divisions and host playoff games when you have a HoF QB and the rest of the division has no answer at QB, does anyone doubt that if Tom Brady was on the Jets teams in 2009 and 2010 that the Jets would have won back to back Super Bowls? I certainly don't.

 

 

The reason shouldn't matters is that we are talking about a large sample here (an entire season). Over the course of the entire season, the Jets played .500 ball, that is a much better indicator of team strength then an upset in the playoffs

[Klecko73isGod]

BB resigned. Kraft made him an offer. BB wanted Leon Hess, not Woody. He is no fool

 

Yes... because Hess's tenure as Jet owner was marked by massive success. 

[Klecko73isGod]

The reason shouldn't matters is that we are talking about a large sample here (an entire season). Over the course of the entire season, the Jets played .500 ball, that is a much better indicator of team strength then an upset in the playoffs

 

Yes, but "upsets" in the playoffs have become commonplace in New England. 

[The Crusher]

The reason shouldn't matters is that we are talking about a large sample here (an entire season). Over the course of the entire season, the Jets played .500 ball, that is a much better indicator of team strength then an upset in the playoffs

 

 

Hell no.  Playoff wins matter the most. Who the hell cares how you get there?

[Lizard King]

Yes... because Hess's tenure as Jet owner was marked by massive success. 

 

LOVE blanket statements. Leon was throwing money at the team in his late years, while keeping a hands off approach. Bill Parcells had fast success here with an almost autonomous approach to picking everyone he wanted in the organization. He was respected and loved in his later years, which is well documented when Vinny Testaverde spoke to Peter King about how a frail Leon showed up at the airport when the team came back from Denver in the ACFCG to personally congratulate the players. Then fast forward to Woody buying the team. Call it intuition, but BB either smelled a rat, or just wanted to make off with the bonus that the late Leon gave him and add to it asap in New England. Either way, there is no rational reason to think that if he stayed here, given his connection to Parcells, the money and the culture of autonomy, he wouldn't have been happy and successful. Unless, of course, he was given a new set of rules, or told something he didn't want to hear about new ownership.

[Klecko73isGod]

LOVE blanket statements. Leon was throwing money at the team in his late years, while keeping a hands off approach. Bill Parcells had fast success here with an almost autonomous approach to picking everyone he wanted in the organization. He was respected and loved in his later years, which is well documented when Vinny Testaverde spoke to Peter King about how a frail Leon showed up at the airport when the team came back from Denver in the ACFCG to personally congratulate the players. Then fast forward to Woody buying the team. Call it intuition, but BB either smelled a rat, or just wanted to make off with the bonus that the late Leon gave him and add to it asap in New England. Either way, there is no rational reason to think that if he stayed here, given his connection to Parcells, the money and the culture of autonomy, he wouldn't have been happy and successful. Unless, of course, he was given a new set of rules, or told something he didn't want to hear about new ownership.

 

Belichick left to get out of Parcell's shadow, whom he had grown to hate at the time.

 

He didn't want to win a SB and have Parcells hog the credit as team president. His ego wouldn't allow for that. So he stole a dying man's money. 

 

Woody is a red herring in Belichick's departure from the Jets. 

[CTM]

Hell no.  Playoff wins matter the most. Who the hell cares how you get there?

 

 

if only my point was edible, you wouldn't have missed it..

[JiFtheOracle]

Rex shouldn't even have made the playoffs year 1. Belichick has 4 division titles and has hosted playoff games. Dumb comment

 

So, BB has 4 division titles, more home playoff games and a HOF QB, but Rex still has more playoff wins.  

 

Yeah, dumb comment.  lulza

[Klecko73isGod]

CTM VS. JiF!!!!

[CTM]

So, BB has 4 division titles, more home playoff games and a HOF QB, but Rex still has more playoff wins.  

 

Yeah, dumb comment.  lulza

 

Yes dumb

[whodeawhodat]

Belichick left to get out of Parcell's shadow, whom he had grown to hate at the time.

 

He didn't want to win a SB and have Parcells hog the credit as team president. His ego wouldn't allow for that. So he stole a dying man's money. 

 

Woody is a red herring in Belichick's departure from the Jets. 

 

I sometime think that the movie waterboy was based off of Big Bill and little bill's relationship. Especially after his press conference resigning as the HC of the NYJ.

[Klecko73isGod]

So, BB has 4 division titles, more home playoff games and a HOF QB, but Rex still has more playoff wins.  

 

Yeah, dumb comment.  lulza

 

 

Yes dumb

 

 

FIGHT, FIGHT, FIGHT!!!

[The Crusher]

if only my point was edible, you wouldn't have missed it..

 

 

Your point is disgusting and un-kept.

[Jetsfan80]

CTM, are the Giants giving back their 2 rings because they got there by playing barely above .500 ball both times?  Some teams don't have the luxury of beating up on easy divisions.  All that matters is getting into the playoffs and winning when you get there. 

 

If you want to watch football where the regular season is all that matters, watch English Premiership soccer.  They even have ties!

[#27TheDominator]

if they are winning... I dont care if Saddam Hussain is the QB of the Jets. 

 

 

I think he retired.

 

 

Guys been dead what?  7 years?

 

I wouldn't want to sit next to him on the plane ride home

 

UNDEAD QB!!! Might as well have kept Favre.

 

It is not simply a question of wins and losses. It is about having your team playing well going into the playoffs and Coughlin has managed that twice. He went to the SB as an underdog team both times. It is not just a mater of having guys play hard for you, it is a matter of having them play their best at the right time. In two AFC championship games the Jets had two halves that were just abominable. You cannot have terrible halves against the best teams in the biggest games. You have to prepare against that. So I would say that the evidence shows Coughlin to have been the better coach. And yes, he could get fired before Rex, but he at least has 2 SB victories to look back on. Sure Rex can get better, if he ever learns to calm down and make rational in game decisions about time, down and distance. And if he ever learns to coach the entire team and not abrogate nearly half his responsibilities to another guy. But I have not seen that so far this year. I am an optimist.  I did not want Rex back with a new GM but now I want him to do well enough to get an extension because I want my team to do well. Does not mean I do not have critical concerns about his Head coaching chops.

 

Fair enough, but Rex certainly had his team playing well going into the playoffs.  As for Coughlin his teams have pretty much swan dived at the end of seasons for his whole tenure.  The rest of your points about Rex are valid, I just think people don't realize how flawed and hated even so-called great coaches are. 

 

There are pieces of it that are very similar.

 

We would not be asking him to run the program here, we have Idzik for that.

 

We are asking someone to coach a team, which O'Brien can do, particularly at an offensive level, with great acumen. He coaches up layers to exceed their talent levels. It is happening at PDSU, and it happened with the Patriots.

 

That said, I doubt O'Brien wants to coach in the same division as BB.

 

Haven't you and Shane been bitching about the way Rex runs the program as his biggest detriment?  He certainly coaches up the defense to exceed it's talent levels.  Why can Idzik run the program for O'Brien, but not Rex? 

[CTM]

CTM, are the Giants giving back their 2 rings because they got there by playing barely above .500 ball both times?  Some teams don't have the luxury of beating up on easy divisions.  All that matters is getting into the playoffs and winning when you get there. 

 

If you want to watch football where the regular season is all that matters, watch English Premiership soccer.  They even have ties!

 

 

That's not the point, we are measuring Rex for his entire body work. I am saying that what has happened in the regular season is a lot more predictive of future success them some little playoff run. Jif is unable to comprehend this for obvious mental deficiencies, and Crusher isn't interested since he can't eat it.

 

Re: the giants, the point is moot, they actually DID win those super bowls, We came out flat and played terribly for 2 of 4 halves in AFCC. (Also our division is weak, we've had 4 gimme's a year).

[Klecko73isGod]

That's not the point, we are measuring Rex for his entire body work. I am saying that what has happened in the regular season is a lot more predictive of future success them some little playoff run. Jif is unable to comprehend this for obvious mental deficiencies, and Crusher isn't interested since he can't eat it.

 

Re: the giants, the point is moot, they actually DID win those super bowls, We came out flat and played terribly for 2 of 4 halves in AFCC. (Also our division is weak, we've had 4 gimme's a year).

 

So Coughlin gets more credit for winning SBs even though regular season success is more predictive of future success. But the fact that the two have identical REGULAR SEASON records the last 4+ seasons in meaningless why again?

 

Arrogant boy is all over the map today. 

[JiFtheOracle]

That's not the point, we are measuring Rex for his entire body work. I am saying that what has happened in the regular season is a lot more predictive of future success them some little playoff run. Jif is unable to comprehend this for obvious mental deficiencies, and Crusher isn't interested since he can't eat it.

 

Re: the giants, the point is moot, they actually DID win those super bowls, We came out flat and played terribly for 2 of 4 halves in AFCC. (Also our division is weak, we've had 4 gimme's a year).

 

 

lulzawut?

[CTM]

So Coughlin gets more credit for winning SBs even though regular season success is more predictive of future success. But the fact that the two have identical REGULAR SEASON records the last 4+ seasons in meaningless why again?

 

Arrogant boy is all over the map today. 

 

How many times has it been rumored that Coughlin is going to get the ax? He saved himself with strong playoff runs culminating in a SB. Wrecks doesn't have near the same resume. We both know that had wrecks won a SB or two in the last 4 years nobody would be calling for his head today

[slats]

In fairness to Coughlin's coaching ability, Mark Sanchez is a much better QB than Eli Manning. Tough to compare the two men when the Jets have had such at obvious advantage at the most important position on the field.

[CTM]

In fairness to Coughlin's coaching ability, Mark Sanchez is a much better QB than Eli Manning. Tough to compare the two men when the Jets have had such at obvious advantage at the most important position on the field.

 

 

That's funny, cause I've read numerous threads comparing Sanchex to Eli favorably

[Jetsfan80]

That's funny, cause I've read numerous threads comparing Sanchex to Eli favorably

 

There's also a 2,000 or so page thread titled "Sanchez sucks".  The fact that it took so many words to recognize this simple fact only tells me that Jets fans by and large are dumb. 

[Jetsfan80]

The over-arching point, CTM, is that Tom Coughlin is considered a great coach.  By your standards, he is decidedly not.  He's a slightly above average coach who was lucky to have Eli Manning and some fantastic pass-rushers over the years.  I give far more credit to the Giants' front office for those rings.

[The Crusher]

In fairness to Coughlin's coaching ability, Mark Sanchez is a much better QB than Eli Manning. Tough to compare the two men when the Jets have had such at obvious advantage at the most important position on the field.

 

Also tough to read this post without eating it with all the sarcasm dripping off it like chocolate sauce. 

[Lizard King]

In fairness to Coughlin's coaching ability, Mark Sanchez is a much better QB than Eli Manning. Tough to compare the two men when the Jets have had such at obvious advantage at the most important position on the field.

To summize your point here, great offense wins these days, not defense?

[sourceworx]

To summize your point here, great offense wins these days, not defense?

 

No. Great QBs do.  Coughlin has one.  Rex never has.

[slats]

To summize your point here, great offense wins these days, not defense?

QBs and the people who sack them are the most important positions on the field.

[Klecko73isGod]

QBs and the people who sack them are the most important positions on the field.

 

Well, we appear to have the people who sack them. Hopefully Geno is the real deal.