Fitzpatrick's Familiar Situation Should Have new Feel

[Jetsfan80]

Nice list, all are better than the last three seasons here. Makes my point. I would have killed for this list over what we had.

 

Stevie Johnson ended up the # 4 receiver in San Francisco.  In Buffalo with Fitz, he had seasons with 82, 76 and 79 catches.  The year after Fitz left, he dropped to 52 catches, then 35 in San Fran.

 

And the minute Fitz left Tennessee, Kendall Wright went from a 90+ catch guy to a 50-60 catch guy.  Just like he was the year before Fitz came aboard.

 

You're insane.

[#27TheDominator]

The same Chan who said that Geno will be the starter barring injury? 

A: That's been the standard party line since they made the trade. You don't bring in a veteran Starter unless you have doubts about your incoming starter. Even Fitz is saying that.

You try and build up the young player's confidence, but I bet Chan and Fitz expect Fitz to be running the show once he is healthy. 

 

Fitzpatrick is a quality veteran backup QB who can give you some starts

A: Did you read Glen's article on Fitz record when putting up 21 points? This guy makes good decisions with the football unlike Geno.

Obviously Geno having a big year 3 would be great for the Jets while they develop Petty. If not, Fitz is the guy this year, who can be re-upped next year if Petty or whoever is not ready.

 

What veteran starter?  Fitzpatrick has 89 starts, but he has been in the league for 10 years.  He has lost his job to Jake Locker and Ryan Mallet the last two years.  In 2013, the Bills elected to cut him when the only bodies that had on the roster were Tarvaris Jackson and Aaron Corp.  They went into the season with Manuel, Jeff Tuel and Thad Lewis.  He is not a "starter" and he is on his 4th team in 4 years.  For the second time in his career he has been traded for a conditional 7th in the next season's draft.  That is the equivalent of an 8th round draft pick.  Yes, I know that is not a thing, but it should tell you the value.

[Jet Nut]

Stevie Johnson ended up the # 4 receiver in San Francisco. In Buffalo with Fitz, he had seasons with 82, 76 and 79 catches. The year after Fitz left, he dropped to 52 catches, then 35 in San Fran.

And the minute Fitz left Tennessee, Kendall Wright went from a 94 catch guy to a 50 catch guy.

You're insane.

I don't care where he wound up on another team. I don't know why he sucked somewhere else. I watched him play well. I can read how many passes he caught. Decker caught close to the he same number of passes with Geno as he did with Manning. And missed games. So

Jets QBs wish they had a list of WRs like Fitz has had

[Jetsfan80]

Actually my main point is that cherry picking stats, games where he scored whatever number of points helps make him look better is a waste of time. He was signed to be the backup and unless Geno gets off to an awful start he's on the bench

 

Good point.  Let's just ignore those pointless statistics and shut down this conversation in the slowest news month.  Math is stupid anyways.

[Jetsfan80]

I don't care where he wound up on another team. I watched him play well. I can read how many passes he caught. Decker caught close to the he same number of passes with Geno as he did with Manning. And missed games. So

 

Decker also had success with Tebow.  He's a very good, legit # 1 receiver as long as he can stay healthy.  That's more than you can say for what Fitz has had for all but 1 year in his career.

[munchmemory]

What a cool piece. I still have my doubts he will get a fair shot, but I'm willing to bet he starts significant number of games this year. Sure hope we are not sitting here at the end of the season wondering "what if" Fitzpatrick had started from week 1.

My gut tells me that's a lock.  

[Jet Nut]

Decker also had success with Tebow.  He's a very good, legit # 1 receiver as long as he can stay healthy.  That's more than you can say for what Fitz has had for all but 1 year in his career.

So you're spinning from one side to another. You compare what a WR does with different QBs to make a point when it suits you but I he same logic says Geno is as good as Manning.

You can't seriously spin this hard to tell us Geno has weapons like that list.

[Jetsfan80]

So you're spinning from one side to another. You compare what a WR does with different QBs to make a point when it suits you but I he same logic says Geno is as good as Manning.

You can't seriously spin this hard to tell us Geno has weapons like that list.

 

How many catches a receiver gets with given QB's tells you more about the value of the WR than it does the QB.  Bad QB's tend to target their top guys heavily whereas great QB's spread the ball around. 

 

If you pulled out a receptions:# of targets ratio for these guys, THAT might get us somewhere when it comes to the QB's.  My guess is the numbers would show that Geno and Tebow both threw it Decker's way a lot more than Manning did, but were successful about the same number of times, because they are inefficient, bad QB's.

 

My argument about Fitz's weapons doesn't really advance my argument for Fitz. The OP showed that Fitz was a lot better than his W-L record by showing how often Fitz has done his job over the years but had bad defenses fail him time and again. 

 

What I'm saying here about the weapons, meanwhile, only advances my argument that his receivers were basically sh*t.  Or at the very least no better than what Sanchez and Geno had to throw to since '09.

[jgb]

Decker also had success with Tebow.  He's a very good, legit # 1 receiver as long as he can stay healthy.  That's more than you can say for what Fitz has had for all but 1 year in his career.

 

Fitzpatrick and Stevie Johnson. Among the most overpaid athletes of the last 20 years.

[Jet Nut]

Good point.  Let's just ignore those pointless statistics and shut down this conversation in the slowest news month.  Math is stupid anyways.

Are you saying pointless stats become significant in a slow news month?

Math is good. He's a QB who over the course of his career has lost more games than he's won and never has won more than 6 games in any season.

Here we blame losses on our QB. With Fitz those who hate the incumbent look for a way to change those simple numbers around to look better. He's the backup

[Jet Nut]

.

 

My argument about Fitz's weapons doesn't advance my argument for Fitz.  It advances my argument that his receivers were sh*t.

Wasn't my original post that Fitz had better receivers? I never said they were great, just better than the sh*t we've had here

[#27TheDominator]

Nope, the weapinzzz argument doesn't quite work in your favor on this one.  Can you name his top receiver when he was in Buffalo and Tennessee?  Here, I'll help you with that:

 

2009 (BUF):  36 year old Terrell Owens (55 catches) and bust Lee Evans.  Marshawn was on the team still but for some reason (injury?) only got 120 carries that year.  Fred Jackson had 237. 

 

2010 (BUF):  Steve Johnson (82 catches), Evans, Roscoe Parrish, Jackson and CJ Spiller.

 

2011 (BUF):   Johnson (76 catches), David Nelson, Scott Chandler, Jackson and Spiller.

 

 

 

Good point.  Let's just ignore those pointless statistics and shut down this conversation in the slowest news month.  Math is stupid anyways.

 

Lee Evans was a bust?  The three years before Fitzpatrick got there he went:  82/1292/8, 55/849/5 and 63/1007/3.  750 was his low season before Fitzpatrick got to town.  Quick, Lee Evans, Santonio Holmes and Braylon Edwards,  who had the most 1000 yard seasons?  Lee Evans might be as good a receiver as the Jets have had since Toon.

[Jetsfan80]

Wasn't my original post that Fitz had better receivers? I never said they were great, just better than the sh*t we've had here

 

Your argument was that he wouldn't have had has many 21+ pt types of games with the Jets receiving corps as he would have those Buffalo/TEN receiving corps.  I'd argue against that.  There'd probably be little difference. 

 

And meanwhile, those defenses in Buffalo and Tennessee were absolutely awful.  Again, the only spot Fitz has been at where he had an edge over Sanchez and Geno's situation was in Houston.  Just 1 year out of the 6.

[Jetsfan80]

Lee Evans was a bust?  The three years before Fitzpatrick got there he went:  82/1292/8, 55/849/5 and 63/1007/3.  750 was his low season before Fitzpatrick got to town.  Quick, Lee Evans, Santonio Holmes and Braylon Edwards,  who had the most 1000 yard seasons?  Lee Evans might be as good a receiver as the Jets have had since Toon.

 

One 80 catch season and two 1,000 yard seasons in 8 seasons out of a top 15 pick?  Yeah, I'd consider him a bust.  I'm also very fine with calling Braylon and Santonio busts as well.  In Santonio's case, mostly for his fall from grace in Pittsburgh after his Super Bowl MVP. 

 

No one is saying the Jets ever had good weapons.  Just not the awful, bottom of the barrel weapons people like to say they were when making excuses for our QB's.  And certainly no worse than what Fitz had from 2009-2013.

[Jetsfan80]

Are you saying pointless stats become significant in a slow news month?

Math is good. He's a QB who over the course of his career has lost more games than he's won and never has won more than 6 games in any season.

Here we blame losses on our QB. With Fitz those who hate the incumbent look for a way to change those simple numbers around to look better. He's the backup

 

Of course we do.  Because they're terrible!  Sanchez and Geno, over the course of their tenures with the Jets, were consistently top 3 reasons for every single one of our losses.  And in Sanchez's case, he was the biggest factor holding us back from winning division titles and maybe even a Super Bowl.  He's the # 1 reason we missed the playoffs in 2011 and then went 6-10 in 2012, leading the NFL in turnovers in that final campaign.

 

Fitzpatrick is not terrible.  Especially not on this level.  He's average.  Here we have someone who took the time to show why and, nope, rejected, because of losses and Geno getting named starter and stuff. 

[Jet Nut]

One 80 catch season and two 1,000 yard seasons in 8 seasons out of a top 15 pick? Yeah, I'd consider him a bust. I'm also very fine with calling Braylon and Santonio busts as well. In Santonio's case, mostly for his fall from grace in Pittsburgh after his Super Bowl MVP.

No one is saying the Jets ever had good weapons. Just not the awful, bottom of the barrel weapons people like to say they were when making excuses for our QB's. And certainly no worse than what Fitz had from 2009-2013.

Then we agree to disagree. The Jets WRs have been bottom of the barrel, worst in the league, worse than I ever seen here or anywhere else. They in no way have helped our QBs

[#27TheDominator]

One 80 catch season and two 1,000 yard seasons in 8 seasons out of a top 15 pick?  Yeah, I'd consider him a bust.  I'm also very fine with calling Braylon and Santonio busts as well.  In Santonio's case, mostly for his fall from grace in Pittsburgh after his Super Bowl MVP. 

 

No one is saying the Jets ever had good weapons.  Just not the awful, bottom of the barrel weapons people like to say they were when making excuses for our QB's.  And certainly no worse than what Fitz had from 2009-2013.

 

Then what is your point?  You think our busts were better than their busts?  Stevie Johnson, Lee Evans, Fred Jackson, CJ Spiller, Marshawn Lynch, Chandler.  The fact that the guy was a top 15 pick and listing these guys hurts your point, it doen't help it. 

[Jetsfan80]

Then what is your point?  You think our busts were better than their busts?  Stevie Johnson, Lee Evans, Fred Jackson, CJ Spiller, Marshawn Lynch, Chandler.  The fact that the guy was a top 15 pick and listing these guys hurts your point, it doen't help it. 

 

My point is, simply, that Fitz had no inherent advantages (weapinzz about equal) and many disadvantages (defenses he had were lousy, Sanchez/Geno's were at times elite and most of the time very good) when compared to Sanchez and Geno. 

 

The only year this wasn't the case was in 2014, when the talent level on the Jets went off a cliff and Fitz was paired with an excellent Houston team, with Johnson, Hopkins and Watt.  Fitz responded by having his best year, statistically, and winning more games than he lost until his unfortunate injury.

 

He's done his job over his career and put points on the board, which is the QB's job.  Pretty simple, yet people want to fight it for some reason.

[#27TheDominator]

My point is, simply, that Fitz had no inherent advantages (weapinzz about equal) and many disadvantages (defenses he had were lousy) when compared to Sanchez and Geno.  That he's done his job over his career and put points on the board, which is the QB's job.  Pretty simple, yet people want to fight it for some reason.

 

I don't agree with your simple point.  I don't think the weapinzz have approached being equal.  Yes, Fitzpatrick put up more points, but as I said earlier, that is easy when playing from behind and when you have a sh*tty D.  I am pretty sure that Geno is going to start.  Fitzpatrick is here to be the floor.  I just think the floor is further down than you do. 

[Jetsfan80]

I don't agree with your simple point.  I don't think the weapinzz have approached being equal.  Yes, Fitzpatrick put up more points, but as I said earlier, that is easy when playing from behind and when you have a sh*tty D.  I am pretty sure that Geno is going to start.  Fitzpatrick is here to be the floor.  I just think the floor is further down than you do. 

 

I'd counter that by saying it should be easy to win games when your D is consistently holding teams to under 20 pts.  Yet Sanchez/Geno managed to lose those games anyways.  So it appears we'll agree to disagree.

[roscoeword]

The heck with all these stats. I'd like to hear a post about people who actually saw him play these last years and what kind of qb was he. I don't get to see too many games, but I remember how dangerous he was when Buffalo played us - he seemed like a very crafty guy who can get yardage with his legs when he has to. The question is, will he be a immobile Kenny Obrien mummy  back there, coming off his injury. I hope not. If he's the guy I remember when we played Buffalo, several years ago, I'll take him.

[#27TheDominator]

I'd counter that by saying it should be easy to win games when your D is consistently holding teams to under 20 pts.  Yet Sanchez/Geno managed to lose those games anyways.  So it appears we'll agree to disagree.

 

Well, I think we agree that it is harder to score and easier to win when you have a good D and that if Geno sucks they will go to Fitzpatrick.  Where we disagree is probably just how much Geno will have to suck to get to Fitzpatrick and when it will actually be worthwhile.  He is certainly a more viable option than Brunell, Tebow, Garrard, and even Vick IMO.

[pdxgreen]

I just don't see it. You can't blame Fitzpatrick ' s non-winning record on a total lack of defense. If Geno to totally fails, Fitz is a make weight at best. He has no ceiling, it would be the Bryce Petty watch.

[roscoeword]

I just don't see it. You can't blame Fitzpatrick ' s non-winning record on a total lack of defense. If Geno to totally fails, Fitz is a make weight at best. He has no ceiling, it would be the Bryce Petty watch.

Even if he's not great, the point is that on paper, we may be good enough to win with him, low ceiling and all. Teams have gone to the playoff with unsensational qb's, if they are loaded in other areas.

[pdxgreen]

Even if he's not great, the point is that on paper, we may be good enough to win with him, low ceiling and all. Teams have gone to the playoff with unsensational qb's, if they are loaded in other areas.

Hmmm. Journeyman coming off a broken leg..... man, I wish we had drafted Sean Mannion.

[32EBoozer]

What veteran starter?  Fitzpatrick has 89 starts, but he has been in the league for 10 years.  He has lost his job to Jake Locker and Ryan Mallet the last two years.  In 2013, the Bills elected to cut him when the only bodies that had on the roster were Tarvaris Jackson and Aaron Corp.  They went into the season with Manuel, Jeff Tuel and Thad Lewis.  He is not a "starter" and he is on his 4th team in 4 years.  For the second time in his career he has been traded for a conditional 7th in the next season's draft.  That is the equivalent of an 8th round draft pick.  Yes, I know that is not a thing, but it should tell you the value.

 

"With a cap figure of more than $10 million it’s likely that the club approached Fitzpatrick to see if he would restructure his contract. Obviously the two sides could not come to new terms." BuffaloBills.com March 2013

 

They wanted to keep him, but he wouldn't budge on renegotiating... I think he was looking to get out of Buffalo.

 

I'll bet you Fitz starts more games than Geno..... how about a Jets Jersey as a prize??

I won one last season with Arsis, Have a bet with Raiderholic for one this season.... how about it?

[JiFtheOracle]

The W-L in the article refers to his record when putting up 21+ points on offense.

Got it, missed that.

[Jetlife33]

Nice write up. I really like Fitz as a stop gap QB, nothing more. I wanted the Jets to sign him and applauded them when they did. That said, we should all be rooting for Geno to figure it out this year. Let's hope it's a fair competition that Geno deservedly wins.

[32EBoozer]

Nice write up. I really like Fitz as a stop gap QB, nothing more. I wanted the Jets to sign him and applauded them when they did. That said, we should all be rooting for Geno to figure it out this year. Let's hope it's a fair competition that Geno deservedly wins.

We should also be rooting for Petty...

If he can pick up the offense this year and be ready to compete next year, we could have inexpensive, quality QB play until 2018.

This will allow for Sheldon and Mo and whoever else needs to be signed.

 

#Dynasty!

[AFJF]

Nice write up. I really like Fitz as a stop gap QB, nothing more. I wanted the Jets to sign him and applauded them when they did. That said, we should all be rooting for Geno to figure it out this year. Let's hope it's a fair competition that Geno deservedly wins.

Absolutely..the best thing for the long-term health of the franchise is Geno legitimately beating out Fitz.  If Geno hasn't progressed, they can't hesitate to pull him beyond week three or four if a strong pre-season turns out to be as meaningless as it was last year.

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

We should also be rooting for Petty...

If he can pick up the offense this year and be ready to compete next year, we could have inexpensive, quality QB play until 2018.

This will allow for Sheldon and Mo and whoever else needs to be signed.

 

#Dynasty!

Agree but when does Petty get a chance? (assuming 2016 draft is a first round QB if Jets miss playoffs)

 

Do the Jets risk a wild card spot to see if Petty can play or do they let Fitz finish the season and possibly experience a playoff game?

 

We all want to see Geno take the Jets to the Division title but if he doesn't, we will see Fitz play (barring injury), question is when do we see Petty?  

[32EBoozer]

Agree but when does Petty get a chance? (assuming 2016 draft is a first round QB if Jets miss playoffs)

 

Do the Jets risk a wild card spot to see if Petty can play or do they let Fitz finish the season and possibly experience a playoff game?

 

We all want to see Geno take the Jets to the Division title but if he doesn't, we will see Fitz play (barring injury), question is when do we see Petty?  

I think Petty doesn't see the field this year, except for Pre-season clean up duty and as the scout team QB.

Let the QB coach work with him and get him ready for 2016 camp. Then we'll get an opportunity to see what we have.

If we're out of the playoff picture by week 14, I'd think they let Petty get a couple of games under his belt and see how he does.

Maybe he convinces them there is no need to take a QB in Rd. 1 of the 2016 draft.

 

It's not like Rodgers trying to unseat Favre.This guy could actually make some noise next year.

If we take a Day 1 QB next year, I'm not sure how the Jets will handle Petty

Sort of like the TB situation with Winston and Glennon. Glennon looked OK when given a chance.

Now he's basically a backup with no chance of starting unless Winston sucks big time.

[Jet Nut]

Agree but when does Petty get a chance? (assuming 2016 draft is a first round QB if Jets miss playoffs)

 

Do the Jets risk a wild card spot to see if Petty can play or do they let Fitz finish the season and possibly experience a playoff game?

 

We all want to see Geno take the Jets to the Division title but if he doesn't, we will see Fitz play (barring injury), question is when do we see Petty?

Petty has no chance of seeing real playing time this season.

[drdetroit]

Yes, his 1 year with Houston (where he was 13th in DVOA and had a winning record as starter) he had plenty of talent around him. From 2009-2013, he had much less talent than Sanchez or Geno. That is very, very clear when you take even a passing glance at the numbers.

Give me a break you guys even the teams he played with in Buffalo were more talented than the garbage rosters we had in 2013-2014.

[Joe Jets fan]

Its a great question,  if Geno is the same Geno we have seen for two years, and they give him the first quarter of the season to show it then what?   They bring in Fitz after the bye and he plays 12 games and misses the playoffs, then what?

 

Do we draft a QB in first round?  Then we wasted a forth round pick this year.

 

Do we give Petty 2016 and hope?  If we do that then he gets 2017 and 2018 according to the Geno supporters you can't give up on a QB till after year three.

 

If Geno fails this year the NYJ are screwed for years to come.

 

 

 

Yes, best thing is Geno being a totally diffrent QB this year, but when he is not, I don't think there is any saving of the season.