D'Brickashaw Ferguson: What Is Jets Succession Plan?

[jetfuel]

2 hours ago, Tinstar said:

This is a very nice article, but I sense a bit of cowardice in it . It reeks of someone who has a decent relationship with the player and don't want to offend while realizing for themselves that the player is no longer worth having on the team.  How can one say that the player is still a premier LT than criticize his cap figure or even restructuring and extending his contract.

In the interest of full disclosure, let it be known that I was never a fan of this draft pick . I wanted Jay Cutler . That said, Ferguson has been a solid Jet and will be missed . He needs to be missed thou because this team will never go forward holding onto the past

And Ferguson should be the Past.

 

I also did not actually criticize his contract. I said that the Jets will surely look into getting him to restructure.

[jetfuel]

1 hour ago, Jet Nut said:

I think his point is that theyre not going into the draft looking to fill holes because they're taking the best player available.

exactly ... I never said these guys were the answer ... just that they are there and the team still has work to do on the OL

[SenorGato]

44 minutes ago, jetfuel said:

Cutting Mangold or Marshall would be completely insane. Restructuring could be done, although I'm not sure that you want to extend Mangold too long at this point in his career or even Marshall for that matter, but I'd be more willing to work something out with him as he at least physically has more years left in him. Ferguson is not the player he once was, but I feel that he is better than people give him credit for and has not missed a game in 10 years, which is ridiculous for an offensive lineman. How many times did Fitzpatrick get sacked from his blind side this year? I always thought Brick was a tad overrated and now I feel that he is underrated to an extent. I get wanting to move on and get younger at the spot for sure. I just think it has to be done the right way, with a replacement ready to go or by grooming someone to take over in 2017. I do think they need to move on, but only after they bring in a damn good replacement. Just my opinion.

Both Mangold were cuttable this offseason with no dead money. Restructuring would likely keep them through 2017. The right way is to not take an almost $15 million dollar hit this year and not lock themselves into D'Brick for mext year.

[HessStation]

My guess would be they're both restructured and retire as Jets.

 

and you guys are being douches. D'brick isn't what he once was but he's still a league average LT which is hard to come by unless the board falls to you under the, take BPA, mantra via first round.

[Sperm Edwards]

21 minutes ago, HessStation said:

My guess would be they're both restructured and retire as Jets.

 

and you guys are being douches. D'brick isn't what he once was but he's still a league average LT which is hard to come by unless the board falls to you under the, take BPA, mantra via first round.

Except he isn't a league average LT anymore. I don't know why people think so. He's probably league average in pass protection (though any ratings website would say otherwise), and he's clearly below average as a run blocker.

Though he will have a good game here and there (like almost any below average player will have), Ferguson kind of sucks now. 

[Jetdawgg]

This board will light up when DBrick gets cut. Every team knows this situation here. I find it difficult to keep DBrick at this price and performance. This is a brutal game.

[pdxgreen]

We could use a high draft pick at LT? Just throwing that out there. Take it with a grain of salt. Because you know, it's not THAT important of a position.

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[jamesr]

5 minutes ago, pdxgreen said:

 

We could use a high draft pick at LT? Just throwing that out there. Take it with a grain of salt. Because you know, it's not THAT important of a position.

Sent from my SGH-M919 using Tapatalk

I think timing is an issue ... you kind of need to decide on Brick before the draft rolls round, so if you don't retain him, you pretty much force yourself to draft a LT because you need one. Mac doesn't operate that way, which is why I would be very surprised if Brick isn't on the team next year. But they have to draft a LT, or acquire a guy with potential via FA / trade, to groom as a longer term option. Otherwise next year you're in the same boat (and the boat has sunk a bit lower).

[pdxgreen]

I think timing is an issue ... you kind of need to decide on Brick before the draft rolls round, so if you don't retain him, you pretty much force yourself to draft a LT because you need one. Mac doesn't operate that way, which is why I would be very surprised if Brick isn't on the team next year. But they have to draft a LT, or acquire a guy with potential via FA / trade, to groom as a longer term option. Otherwise next year you're in the same boat (and the boat has sunk a bit lower).

Yeah. I see the OL as a dam that needs repair work and people are like, "NO we need edge rushers and a new linebackers core!" But if we don't plug the holes soon, it will be a disaster.

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[drdetroit]

13 hours ago, TuscanyTile2 said:

Mmm Kristin Cavallari

 

 

Thanks

[drdetroit]

15 minutes ago, pdxgreen said:

 

Yeah. I see the OL as a dam that needs repair work and people are like, "NO we need edge rushers and a new linebackers core!" But if we don't plug the holes soon, it will be a disaster.

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We're cutting Giacomini and signing an upgrade.

 

As far as LT goes, brick probably has a couple decent years left.

 

[drdetroit]

7 hours ago, Jetdawgg said:

This board will light up when DBrick gets cut. Every team knows this situation here. I find it difficult to keep DBrick at this price and performance. This is a brutal game.

Cut him and his replacement will be just as expensive:

 

top free agent left tackles-

 

Cordy Glenn -- will want $$$

 

Russell Okung - wants $ and injury prone

 

 

As far as drafting a guy, we are a win now team. You want a rookie at Left Tackle?

 

 

[Tinstar]

The Jets should have traded this guy 3 yrs ago when he still had some value around the league .  Today, he only has value to certain Jet fans who are sentimental .  Question, what exactly have the Jets won with Ferguson as our can't do without LT. 

[Tinstar]

4 minutes ago, drdetroit said:

We're cutting Giacomini and signing an upgrade.

 

As far as LT goes, brick probably has a couple decent years left.

 

Good, then let him use them blocking for Jay Cutler in Chicago .

[drdetroit]

Just now, Tinstar said:

Good, then let him use them blocking for Jay Cutler in Chicago .

Can Muhammed Willerson play both LT and OLB?

[Tinstar]

Just now, drdetroit said:

Can Muhammed Willerson play both LT and OLB?

Don't know, I have never seen him try . I know Ferguson can't don't and that's a problem and has been a problem . The guy can only play 1 position along the OL and that's LT and he can't anymore . What good is he to a football team   ?

[drdetroit]

1 minute ago, Tinstar said:

Don't know, I have never seen him try . I know Ferguson can't don't and that's a problem and has been a problem . The guy can only play 1 position along the OL and that's LT and he can't anymore . What good is he to a football team   ?

You guys are crazy.  If we cut Brick a replacement will be just as expensive and we ain't drafting next year's starting LT this is a win now football team.

[Tinstar]

I've been crazy for a long time. If the replacement can play, I don't care what it cost. Ferguson can't anymore  > I find it humorous that the 2 people everyone is so gung ho about keeping on this Jet team is a LT who has lost his pass protection skills and could never run block worth a darn and a  veteran QB who has never made the playoffs is coming off a career yr and has lost his fast ball 

[drdetroit]

1 minute ago, Tinstar said:

I've been crazy for a long time. If the replacement can play, I don't care what it cost. Ferguson can't anymore  > I find it humorous that the 2 people everyone is so gung ho about keeping on this Jet team is a LT who has lost his pass protection skills and could never run block worth a darn and a  veteran QB who has never made the playoffs is coming off a career yr and has lost his fast ball 

Because we don't have better options availabile and this is a win-now team.

[Tinstar]

What exactly are we trying to win ?  3 of our best offensive players from last year are coming off career yrs in a season where we didn't even make the playoffs .Our top 2 RBs from last season are free agents and may not be back . "If ever I saw a man holding a bull by the tail", it's a Jet fan with this belief . Last yr was about installing a program and a belief. This yr should be about improving the talent level within that program even if it means taking a step back .  2017 should be the playoff and beyond target yr, without totally giving up on 2016 .  It would not surprise me if the Jets won less games in this coming season but made the playoffs .

 For the most part, you have to take a step back before you can move forward. The trick is to not take 2, 3 or 4 steps(years) back .  You know, like Rex Ryan did.

[rex-n-effect]

1 hour ago, Tinstar said:

What exactly are we trying to win ?  3 of our best offensive players from last year are coming off career yrs in a season where we didn't even make the playoffs .Our top 2 RBs from last season are free agents and may not be back . "If ever I saw a man holding a bull by the tail", it's a Jet fan with this belief . Last yr was about installing a program and a belief. This yr should be about improving the talent level within that program even if it means taking a step back .  2017 should be the playoff and beyond target yr, without totally giving up on 2016 .  It would not surprise me if the Jets won less games in this coming season but made the playoffs .

 For the most part, you have to take a step back before you can move forward. The trick is to not take 2, 3 or 4 steps(years) back .  You know, like Rex Ryan did.

What a pile of nonsense.

You criticize the team for not making the playoffs in 2015 when we needed to be 11-5 to sneak into a wildcard but won't be surprised if we make the playoffs on a much harder 2016 schedule.

You think improving the talent level means taking a step back.

You admit three offensive players are at the peak of their career performance but we should look two years out for a playoff push...of course even though you think we'll be a playoff team next year.

All you've really said is that the team should continue to improve the roster in 2016. Well thank you for burying the most obvious statement in a big pile of trash.

[section314]

1 hour ago, drdetroit said:

Because we don't have better options availabile and this is a win-now team.

Explain to me how a team that hasn't made the playoffs in 5 years is a "win now "team.

[Tinstar]

6 minutes ago, rex-n-effect said:

What a pile of nonsense.

You criticize the team for not making the playoffs in 2015 when we needed to be 11-5 to sneak into a wildcard but won't be surprised if we make the playoffs on a much harder 2016 schedule.

You think improving the talent level means taking a step back.

You admit three offensive players are at the peak of their career performance but we should look two years out for a playoff push...of course even though you think we'll be a playoff team next year.

All you've really said is that the team should continue to improve the roster in 2016. Well thank you for burying the most obvious statement in a big pile of trash.

"Wisdom is the principle thing, so get Wisdom, but in all thy getting, get understanding" ..

Just because 3 guys had career years doesn't mean that they are at the peek of their careers .  

Improving the talent level on the team doesn't mean you have to take a step back, but it is possible  .

Yes, this team could actually win less games in 2017 and be a better team .

Thank you   for you reply non the less.

[bitonti]

16 hours ago, Tinstar said:

 In the interest of full disclosure, let it be known that I was never a fan of this draft pick . I wanted Jay Cutler .  

Jay Cutler is an Olympic caliber a$$hole who's teammates wouldn't piss on him if he was on fire. 

[bitonti]

16 hours ago, SenorGato said:

It took you all of one post to change positions on this player. Glenn wasn't even considered a slam dunk LT when drafted,  

this isn't going to be a popular statement but even a declining Brick is a better LT than Cordy Glenn. how that fatass plays LT is a mystery for the ages. It could be because his offense is a run-first Rex Ryan sh*tshow with a running QB. 

[SenorGato]

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/nfl/2013/10/23/left-tackles-overvalued/3170721/

http://www.si.com/nfl/2015/09/16/left-tackle-value

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/04/29/examining-pressure-are-left-tackles-overvalued/ (this one is kinda funny because it shows pass rushers like Von Miller going up against RTs. As we learned from scientists when it came to Wilkerson - this basically means those guys were gifted sacks by Jah and these do not actually count - unless the heavens deem the sack/s as having Taken Over the Game based on an arbitrary process, but I am digressing)

http://www.footballoutsiders.com/word-muth/2013/word-muth-smith-island

Quote

 

This was a big vote of confidence by the Cowboys coaching staff in the opening week and Smith absolutely delivered. A lot of people are starting to think left tackles are becoming overvalued in the NFL and I understand where they’re coming from to a certain extent. But if you do land an elite left tackle, it makes the rest of your line’s job so much easier. When you can neutralize a defense’s best pass rusher with one man, you can double at other spots and cover up some deficiencies. (And the Cowboys guards are currently deficiencies. I think that will be a common topic in this column.) 

The issue is that average left tackles, or even good ones, aren’t quite good enough to give you this schematic advantage. Yet you have to draft and pay them like they do. It’s why there’s been a bit of blind side backlash recently. But if you do land a good one, it’s still an absolute game changer.

 

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2013/04/15/examining-pressure/2/

 

If the Jets want to hang in today's NFL they can't go around paying top dollar for NTs and LTs out of sentimentality and some kind of obligation. 

[slats]

2 hours ago, drdetroit said:

You guys are crazy.  If we cut Brick a replacement will be just as expensive and we ain't drafting next year's starting LT this is a win now football team.

The only thing that might make this a "win now" team is the age of the roster. This team needs to get younger. As fine a Jet as he has been over his career, Brick is probably a good place to start. He clearly regressed last season, and the big question is how much further he'll regress this year. Always a finesse player rather than a mauler, losing just half a step has a tremendous impact on his abilit to play the position. He's not getting any younger. 

Also, quite frankly, the LT position is becoming less important overall. Sure, it's still very much a passing league, but the emphasis around the league -and on the current Jets- is for QBs to get the ball out as fast as possible. Between that, and the Jets employing a mobile QB in Fitzpatick, do they need a $14M below average LT? One that's never been good in the running game? 

This is another reason why I'm glad we have a personnel guy as GM. I have some faith in Mac and his team to evaluate lesser free agent names, and OL throughout the draft -or even potential UDFAs- to develop. I think they should offer Brick a steep paycut and go from there. I'm genuinely concerned about him going from one of PFF's worst LTs to the worst, sooner rather than later. 

Dont know why anyone is bringing up Mangold, though. That guy is still a top center. Relying on both brawn and brains, he should be for a good couple or few years more. 

[SenorGato]

2 minutes ago, bitonti said:

this isn't going to be a popular statement but even a declining Brick is a better LT than Cordy Glenn. how that fatass plays LT is a mystery for the ages. It could be because his offense is a run-first Rex Ryan sh*tshow with a running QB. 

Oh Jeebus H. Christ bit...It's not going to be popular because it's false. It's guy like you who make girls feel bad for not looking a certain way!! 

[bitonti]

18 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

Oh Jeebus H. Christ bit...It's not going to be popular because it's false. It's guy like you who make girls feel bad for not looking a certain way!! 

says who? PFF and their mystery meat grading system? 

The Jets were 10th in rushing, 2nd in the league in sacks and 5th in QB hits allowed. Brick was a part of all that. Yet those stats are thrown out in favor of PFF? Why? 

 

meanwhile Cordy Glenn is a biscuit away from 350. He's decent but not Great (not as good as Jason Peters was when Buffalo let him go). I stand by the statement that not really a left tackle. He's a power slob RG/RT playing out of position. 

[peebag]

11 minutes ago, bitonti said:

says who? PFF and their mystery meat grading system? 

The Jets were 10th in rushing, 2nd in the league in sacks and 5th in QB hits allowed. Brick was a part of all that. Yet those stats are thrown out in favor of PFF? Why? 

 

meanwhile Cordy Glenn is a biscuit away from 350. He's decent but not Great (not as good as Jason Peters was when Buffalo let him go). I stand by the statement that not really a left tackle. He's a power slob RG/RT playing out of position. 

Don't know much about stats but I do know that decent defenses last year tore us a new backdoor - we got torn apart by Buffalo and Houston.

 

Let that sink in.

[SenorGato]

3 minutes ago, bitonti said:

says who? PFF and their mystery meat grading system?

The Jets were 10th in rushing, 2nd in the league in sacks and 5th in QB hits allowed. Brick was a part of all that. Yet those stats are thrown out in favor of PFF? Why? 

meanwhile Cordy Glenn is a biscuit away from 350. He's decent but not Great (not as good as Jason Peters was when Buffalo let him go). I stand by the statement that not really a left tackle. He's a power slob RG/RT playing out of position. 

The irony of you saying this before announcing that D'Brick is better because Cordy Glenn weighs more. I guess the improvement here is that at least this time you're not a post removed from saying the opposite of what you just said, just skipping right ahead to the nuts stuff. 

While the Jets were third in adjusted sack rate this year according to FO, they haven't been that good before with D'Brick. I'm putting that on Fitzgerald. They were ~ a bottom third run blocking group that also ranked there at the second level and in the open field, the one thing they did was avoid being stuffed just below league average. 

[Tinstar]

3 hours ago, drdetroit said:

Cut him and his replacement will be just as expensive:

 

top free agent left tackles-

 

Cordy Glenn -- will want $$$

 

Russell Okung - wants $ and injury prone

 

 

As far as drafting a guy, we are a win now team. You want a rookie at Left Tackle?

 

 

Yes, if he can pass block or run block better than Brick Ferguson .

[bitonti]

12 minutes ago, SenorGato said:

While the Jets were third in adjusted sack rate this year according to FO, they haven't been that good before with D'Brick  

they were also the 2nd best rushing team according to FO. Breno was actually the best player to run behind, by far. 

I personally think these stats are garbage but if we want to use em  there's plenty of measurements where the Jets OL weren't so bad. 

 

[Sperm Edwards]

41 minutes ago, slats said:

The only thing that might make this a "win now" team is the age of the roster. This team needs to get younger. As fine a Jet as he has been over his career, Brick is probably a good place to start. He clearly regressed last season, and the big question is how much further he'll regress this year. Always a finesse player rather than a mauler, losing just half a step has a tremendous impact on his abilit to play the position. He's not getting any younger. 

Also, quite frankly, the LT position is becoming less important overall. Sure, it's still very much a passing league, but the emphasis around the league -and on the current Jets- is for QBs to get the ball out as fast as possible. Between that, and the Jets employing a mobile QB in Fitzpatick, do they need a $14M below average LT? One that's never been good in the running game? 

This is another reason why I'm glad we have a personnel guy as GM. I have some faith in Mac and his team to evaluate lesser free agent names, and OL throughout the draft -or even potential UDFAs- to develop. I think they should offer Brick a steep paycut and go from there. I'm genuinely concerned about him going from one of PFF's worst LTs to the worst, sooner rather than later. 

Dont know why anyone is bringing up Mangold, though. That guy is still a top center. Relying on both brawn and brains, he should be for a good couple or few years more. 

Even more than that, with Fitz hurrying the ball out as much as he did, Brick still was among the 5 worst tackles in surrendering QB pressures. 

Before this past season he was already in a noticeable decline. The dream excuses were that he just needed a new coaching staff, a QB who didn't hold the ball so long, and a competent pass blocking LG next to him. Well he had all that, and a weak-ass schedule, and he had a even worse season than he had in '14, when he already had a shaky season at best. 

Land this is just his pass blocking, which is the only thing he was ever more than average at, even in his prime. 

Just cut him. There were backup LTs filling in for injured starters that badly outplayed Ferguson. The one thing we should be afforded, with a QB who gets the ball out quick, is to erase an perceived need to retain a ridiculously overpriced, one-dimensional LT, whose one dimension is still below average.

Just cut him. The team would be better using his money elsewhere and putting a backup at LT than trying to tread water with his has-been ass. 

[bitonti]

21 minutes ago, peebag said:

Don't know much about stats but I do know that decent defenses last year tore us a new backdoor - we got torn apart by Buffalo and Houston.

 

Let that sink in.

Ok so Buffalo coached by our former HC Rex Ryan knew where all the weaknesses were and beat the Jets twice. Rex knew this team better than Bowles. He's also had historical success against Fitz... who used to play for Houston. Another team who knew the Jets personnel better than the Jets. The Texans knew Fitz' weaknesses. None of this has anything to do with the quality of the OL. 

 

in fact in this league the OL is just not that important anymore. I'll say it again the Broncos tackles were abysmal level bad by the end of the season yet they all have super bowl rings. The Pats OL was a sieve, at one point they started their 4th string LT Cameron Fleming and even moved center Bryan Stork out to RT. Yet they still won the East, handily. 

The Jets OL isn't perfect but it's certainly good enough to win.

If we are being real the positions that isn't good enough is QB. That's what we should be talking about upgrading. And I'm a fan of Fitz, probably the best QB we've seen since Chad. Signing a big money RT and drafting a first round LT are just moving deck chairs on the titanic. If the goal is to win a Super Bowl, those moves don't change the calculus.