Would Nick Foles be considered a journeyman?

[rex-n-effect]

Foles is a journeyman on a journey to the bottom of the toilet bowl. His career is mid-flush.

[Rangers9]

9 minutes ago, cant wait said:

Fitz played with plenty of talent in his career 

First of all his stats as a starter isn't that bad. And what were the records of those teams? 

[Rangers9]

9 minutes ago, joewilly12 said:

The 2015 Jets were a good team Fitzpatrick walked into a great situation with the easy schedule. 

This is basically almost the same team that went 4-12 in 2014. The main additions were Marshall and Fitz. 

[cant wait]

9 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

First of all his stats as a starter isn't that bad. And what were the records of those teams? 

Fitz was either hurt or backup for a lot of those seasons but his record is:

4-7-1

4-4

4-9

6-10

6-10

3-6

6-6

10-6

[slats]

3 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

This is basically almost the same team that went 4-12 in 2014. The main additions were Marshall and Fitz. 

Lol. Out of one side of your mouth, you wanna complain about how much money Maccagnan spent last year, and out of the other you wanna pretend that the 2014 & 2015 rosters were basically the same. Pretty cool. 

[Rangers9]

Just now, cant wait said:

Fitz was either hurt or backup for a lot of those seasons but his record is:

4-7-1

4-4

4-9

6-10

6-10

3-6

6-6

His record or the team's record. Look if you don't like the player it's fine with me. You can try and find all of the negatives on him you want to and they are there. So if he's so bad don't re-sign him esp for 3 years. I can't find anything statistically positive about Geno. His are the worst stats in the NFL. 

[joewilly12]

1 hour ago, Rangers9 said:

This is basically almost the same team that went 4-12 in 2014. The main additions were Marshall and Fitz. 

2 key offensive weapons with an offensive coordinator who understood the game and head coach with some football knowledge it was far from the same team.

[PatsFanTX]

His TD/INT ratio (27/2) was the best ever by an NFL QB. "

That's no big deal.

That wouldn't even set the Jets franchise record for TD passes.

[Rangers9]

19 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

 

Only 3 draft picks played in a game in 2015 and imo none were impact players and only two good contributors. Two of the key cap hits were Revis and Cro who got 7 mil and was this year cut. The other guys like Skrine and Carpenter were ok but not major pieces. Every year personnel wise there will be changes. But except for Revis Fitz Marshall and Williams no major changes. If you're talking about watching your budget and cap space present and future the Revis and Cro signings were stupid. Both guys were way overpaid. Neither guy came close to living up to their contract. The guy who most outplayed his contract was Fitz. 

[Mike135]

3 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Only 3 draft picks played in a game in 2015 and imo none were impact players and only two good contributors. Two of the key cap hits were Revis and Cro who got 7 mil and was this year cut. The other guys like Skrine and Carpenter were ok but not major pieces. Every year personnel wise there will be changes. But except for Revis Fitz Marshall and Williams no major changes. If you're talking about watching your budget and cap space present and future the Revis and Cro signings were stupid. Both guys were way overpaid. Neither guy came close to living up to their contract. The guy who most outplayed his contract was Fitz. 

[Big Blocker]

1 hour ago, Rangers9 said:

You could be right but they could have signed any of these guys and they passed on them. I don't know where Mac got this idea for structuring a deal like this 12-6-6 but if it's been done I've never seen it before. And the Jets don't seem to be willing to compromise on it. I think it is a take it or leave it scenario because the Jets are in the driver's seat. It's late in the process and there just aren't starting jobs available this off season. To me just because you have the power doesn't mean you have to exercise it. It's not the way to build a relationship. I mean we're quickly losing any momentum we had coming off of last year. And we were in good place after last season. The players were on board with the program. Now what the hell is the program anyways.

Well, I will say that the situation seems as unclear as ever.  But at the time the Jets did not pursue those guys, pursue beyond having a few in to visit, is that made since if they really preferred to go with Fitzpatrick.  That may have been the case.  Only problem is, now they are at an impasse.

Now what?

[RutgersJetFan]

1 hour ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

I remember guys like you saying the same last year when we were bringing in FItz with Geno. Now all of a sudden Fitz is the savior while a guy like Foles is garbage. Foles isn't anything special, but neither is FItz. The Jets will win and lose games because of their defense and weapons on offense (outside of QB). If you can't see that then you must be new to watching football.  

Totally new. I don't think Foles will help us hit more home runs into the hoop.

[Jet Nut]

1 hour ago, cant wait said:

How come your fearless leader was never able to win more than 6 games prior to last season?

Because that leadership which leads to so many wins occurs in fans minds only.  

The team will follow any QB who gives it his all and gives the team a chance to win.  The rest is BS fans dream up

[Villain The Foe]

57 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

This is basically almost the same team that went 4-12 in 2014. The main additions were Marshall and Fitz. 

No its not. These are the additions to the 2015 team

Players: Brandon Marshall, Quincy Enunwa, James Carpenter, Darrelle Revis, Buster Skrine, Marcus Gilchrist, Antonio Cromartie, Ryan Fitzpatrick, Leonard Williams, 

 

Players considered "additions" based on putting them back at their natural position: Calvin Pryor (Went from a benched FS to a top young SS), Eric Decker (Went from an injury prone #1 WR to a top 5 #2 WR)

I dont think I need to go any further and talk about the upgrade at the coaching positions with the new scheme and all.

 You're trying to make this turnaround the sole doing of Fitzpatrick, or atleast the primary reason for the turnaround. Fitz was the beneficiary of a great situation. 

 

To say that the "main" additions were Marshall and Fitz is just dishonest. The fact that we got Marshall gave us a legit #1, but it instantly gave us a legit #2 given that we could move Decker back to his natural position. Geno Smith didnt have a legit #1 or #2 the year pryor. The arrival of Gilchrist at FS instantly gave us a legit SS in Calvin Pryor given that we could move Pryor back to his natrual position. That 2014 Jets didnt have a FS or SS on it given that Pryor played out of position. 

James Carpenter played at a probowl level, whens the last time you seen a Jets LG play at that type of level? 

Revis was a shutdown corner outside of a Texans and Bills game, both games he was injured in, and Skrine is considered by many coaches as arguably the best slot corner in the game. I didnt see these guys on the team in 2014. You're telling me that they're not main additions when that 2014 Defense ranked like 27th in the league?

 

You're way out there right now. This team was nothing like the team that went 4-12. 

 

[Villain The Foe]

41 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Only 3 draft picks played in a game in 2015 and imo none were impact players and only two good contributors. Two of the key cap hits were Revis and Cro who got 7 mil and was this year cut. The other guys like Skrine and Carpenter were ok but not major pieces. Every year personnel wise there will be changes. But except for Revis Fitz Marshall and Williams no major changes. If you're talking about watching your budget and cap space present and future the Revis and Cro signings were stupid. Both guys were way overpaid. Neither guy came close to living up to their contract. The guy who most outplayed his contract was Fitz. 

James Carpenter had a probowl-like season last year. How is that not a major piece to a line when we've been having guard problems since like forever?

Skrine was a major piece when it came to shutting the slot receiver down AND blitzing the QB. He got injured and wasnt the same after his injury. Thats what happened. 

Leonard Williams was indeed an impact player. He filled in for Richardson when he was out and by the time we hit the midway point he was one of the best Defensive lineman in the game in terms of disruption, run stopping etc...so much so that Mel Kiper had him as his defensive ROTY over Marcus Peters. 

Also, scheme plays a part in the major change. I think the Jets played the most 4 WR set plays in the league last year. Being able to spread out a defense for better presnap reads was tremendous. Being able to see much clearly where your advantages are (1 on 1) is a huge advantage. Having alot of 3 step drop passes to WR's with a huge catch radius worked wonders when you have trash Right Tackles like Giaccomini and you're finding a way to minimize his negative impact on the offense. 

You're seriously underestimating reality in order to save face. Its like you refuse to say that there could be a legit point in the numerous examples that numerous people within numerous threads have presented you with. 

[Big Blocker]

32 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Only 3 draft picks played in a game in 2015 and imo none were impact players and only two good contributors. Two of the key cap hits were Revis and Cro who got 7 mil and was this year cut. The other guys like Skrine and Carpenter were ok but not major pieces. Every year personnel wise there will be changes. But except for Revis Fitz Marshall and Williams no major changes. If you're talking about watching your budget and cap space present and future the Revis and Cro signings were stupid. Both guys were way overpaid. Neither guy came close to living up to their contract. The guy who most outplayed his contract was Fitz. 

I appreciate you are trying to make an argument here, and it is a good point about Fitzpatrick being the only one who outplayed his contract.  But the truth is in the middle.

On one hand Revis and Skrine materially improved play at Cb from the awful performances we saw in 14.  Gilchrist and a returning and healthy Pryor upgraded safety as well.  And Wiliams was a good pick and contributed on the DL.  Marshall's play helped Decker, and Ivory started the year stronger than he was in 14.  ANd I do think Carpenter was a better addition than you imply.

On the other hand the Jets essentially got nothing from TE or 3rd wideout.  Ferguson got even worse, and RG was musical chairs.  The RB's by season end were not a factor.  On D the LB's were worse than in 14 until we saw Mauldin show some promise later.  Richardson missed 4 games.  Cro was hurt. 

And Special teams flat out sucked, not that they were great in 14, but still.  The Jets had a rookie HC who made some mistakes, and it took some time for the new OC to work with the O.  And ftr I do not think there's any merit to the Smith Fan notion that Marty was an awful OC.

Bottom line it is stupid to argue that Fitzpatrick does not deserve a substantial part of the credit for the six game turnaround.  Even on Marshall someone else noted that he and Cutler by the end were dysfunctional, and Cultler's performance in 15 was actually better than with Marshal in 14.  That suggests they both got better with a change of scenery.  And what was the change of scenery for Marshall?  Well a big part of it was Ryan Fitzpatrick.  So even Marshall's great year last year was in some measure to Fitz's credit.

[Big Blocker]

18 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

James Carpenter had a probowl-like season last year. How is that not a major piece to a line when we've been having guard problems since like forever?

Skrine was a major piece when it came to shutting the slot receiver down AND blitzing the QB. He got injured and wasnt the same after his injury. Thats what happened. 

Leonard Williams was indeed an impact player. He filled in for Richardson when he was out and by the time we hit the midway point he was one of the best Defensive lineman in the game in terms of disruption, run stopping etc...so much so that Mel Kiper had him as his defensive ROTY over Marcus Peters. 

Also, scheme plays a part in the major change. I think the Jets played the most 4 WR set plays in the league last year. Being able to spread out a defense for better presnap reads was tremendous. Being able to see much clearly where your advantages are (1 on 1) is a huge advantage. Having alot of 3 step drop passes to WR's with a huge catch radius worked wonders when you have trash Right Tackles like Giaccomini and you're finding a way to minimize his negative impact on the offense. 

You're seriously underestimating reality in order to save face. Its like you refuse to say that there could be a legit point in the numerous examples that numerous people within numerous threads have presented you with. 

I read "pro-bowl like" and stopped right there.  You are so over the top predictable when it comes to your fandom for Smith it is hysterical.  While also not worth reading, at least if some balance is called for.  You have none.

[Ex-Rex]

5 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

Can I make another Mike Glennon thread? 

No. Foles is bad enough, but Glennon is even worse. Foles - when the Rams release him - will be on his third team in as many years. I think that is the definition of a journeyman. If Chip Kelly has no use for you and you can't raise the Rams offense past mediocre WITH a top RB, then you should go bag groceries at Hy Vee.

[CrazyCarl40]

4 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

On one hand Revis and Skrine materially improved play at Cb from the awful performances we saw in 14.  Gilchrist and a returning and healthy Pryor upgraded safety as well.  And Wiliams was a good pick and contributed on the DL.  Marshall's play helped Decker, and Ivory started the year stronger than he was in 14.  ANd I do think Carpenter was a better addition than you imply.

 

The Jets gave up more yards passing in 2015 than they did in 2014. They gave up less TDs and a lower completion percentage. Was the secondary better? Yes, but not by much. The Jets did get much better safety play, but Skrine and Cro were both very bad last season.

[Villain The Foe]

4 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

I read "pro-bowl like" and stopped right there.  You are so over the top predictable when it comes to your fandom for Smith it is hysterical.  While also not worth reading, at least if some balance is called for.  You have none.

It'll be a good idea not to read my posts then. Im pretty consistent with my method. Seeing that its predictable to you then nothing over here will surprise you! 

 

I dont care how you feel about it really. No disrespect, just honest. 

[Big Blocker]

22 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

James Carpenter had a probowl-like season last year. How is that not a major piece to a line when we've been having guard problems since like forever?

Skrine was a major piece when it came to shutting the slot receiver down AND blitzing the QB. He got injured and wasnt the same after his injury. Thats what happened. 

Leonard Williams was indeed an impact player. He filled in for Richardson when he was out and by the time we hit the midway point he was one of the best Defensive lineman in the game in terms of disruption, run stopping etc...so much so that Mel Kiper had him as his defensive ROTY over Marcus Peters. 

Also, scheme plays a part in the major change. I think the Jets played the most 4 WR set plays in the league last year. Being able to spread out a defense for better presnap reads was tremendous. Being able to see much clearly where your advantages are (1 on 1) is a huge advantage. Having alot of 3 step drop passes to WR's with a huge catch radius worked wonders when you have trash Right Tackles like Giaccomini and you're finding a way to minimize his negative impact on the offense. 

You're seriously underestimating reality in order to save face. Its like you refuse to say that there could be a legit point in the numerous examples that numerous people within numerous threads have presented you with. 

[Villain The Foe]

4 minutes ago, Ex-Rex said:

No. Foles is bad enough, but Glennon is even worse. Foles - when the Rams release him - will be on his third team in as many years. I think that is the definition of a journeyman. If Chip Kelly has no use for you and you can't raise the Rams offense past mediocre WITH a top RB, then you should go bag groceries at Hy Vee.

Glennon is better than any QB on this roster, any QB looking to sign to this roster or Nick Foles. 

 

 

[Ex-Rex]

Just now, Villain The Foe said:

Glennon is better than any QB on this roster, any QB looking to sign to this roster or Nick Foles. 

 

 

You'll need to convince me with some numbers fella. The Bucs couldn't WAIT to replace that guy.

[Big Blocker]

3 minutes ago, Ex-Rex said:

No. Foles is bad enough, but Glennon is even worse. Foles - when the Rams release him - will be on his third team in as many years. I think that is the definition of a journeyman. If Chip Kelly has no use for you and you can't raise the Rams offense past mediocre WITH a top RB, then you should go bag groceries at Hy Vee.

Chip Kelly got fired for his effort, and he's your authority?

It might help better if you actually looked at Foles's career.

[Villain The Foe]

1 minute ago, Ex-Rex said:

You'll need to convince me with some numbers fella. The Bucs couldn't WAIT to replace that guy.

Numbers dont tell the story. The game will. 

 

I stopped having these type of conversations with people who talk numbers but dont see games. Sorry, you should have caught me last year. Im out of the trying to convince people business. Numerous ways to watch any QB you want today. I'll probably even pay for an NFL gamepass if you ask nice enough! 

[Big Blocker]

3 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

The Jets gave up more yards passing in 2015 than they did in 2014. They gave up less TDs and a lower completion percentage. Was the secondary better? Yes, but not by much. The Jets did get much better safety play, but Skrine and Cro were both very bad last season.

I agree with your general point, but the point of comparison with Skrine was Kyle Wilson.  I assume you do not really mean to say Skrine was no better than Kyle Wilson.

I already acknowledged Cro had a bad year.

[Big Blocker]

6 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

It'll be a good idea not to read my posts then. Im pretty consistent with my method. Seeing that its predictable to you then nothing over here will surprise you! 

 

I dont care how you feel about it really. No disrespect, just honest. 

I get the impression you do not really care as in care to listen, and consider whether you are wrong, to the pov of those who are disagree with your Smith Fandom.  So in that respect I guess you are right not to listen or care.  Its not your agenda here.

[CrazyCarl40]

1 minute ago, Big Blocker said:

I agree with your general point, but the point of comparison with Skrine was Kyle Wilson.  I assume you do not really mean to say Skrine was no better than Kyle Wilson.

I already acknowledged Cro had a bad year.

Kyle Wilson played better in 2015 for his team than Buster Skrine played for the Jets, if you believe in PFF rankings. Skrine was very bad last season, just like he was every season before that. Want to see a bad contract, look at his.

 

 

[Villain The Foe]

3 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

I get the impression you do not really care as in care to listen, and consider whether you are wrong, to the pov of those who are disagree with your Smith Fandom.  So in that respect I guess you are right not to listen or care.  Its not your agenda here.

Most of the time I dont care, so you're right with that. This is called opinions, you cant right an opinion with another opinion. I care about my opinion more. This is true. 

[Big Blocker]

1 minute ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Kyle Wilson played better in 2015 for his team than Buster Skrine played for the Jets, if you believe in PFF rankings. Skrine was very bad last season, just like he was every season before that. Want to see a bad contract, look at his.

 

 

Are we really going there?  What does Wilson's year in 15 have to do with comparing the 14 and 15 Jets?

Wilson sucked for the Jets, in 14 and before.  That's the relevant point to this discussion.

[Rangers9]

5 minutes ago, Big Blocker said:

I appreciate you are trying to make an argument here, and it is a good point about Fitzpatrick being the only one who outplayed his contract.  But the truth is in the middle.

On one hand Revis and Skrine materially improved play at Cb from the awful performances we saw in 14.  Gilchrist and a returning and healthy Pryor upgraded safety as well.  And Wiliams was a good pick and contributed on the DL.  Marshall's play helped Decker, and Ivory started the year stronger than he was in 14.  ANd I do think Carpenter was a better addition than you imply.

On the other hand the Jets essentially got nothing from TE or 3rd wideout.  Ferguson got even worse, and RG was musical chairs.  The RB's by season end were not a factor.  On D the LB's were worse than in 14 until we saw Mauldin show some promise later.  Richardson missed 4 games.  Cro was hurt. 

And Special teams flat out sucked, not that they were great in 14, but still.  The Jets had a rookie HC who made some mistakes, and it took some time for the new OC to work with the O.  And ftr I do not think there's any merit to the Smith Fan notion that Marty was an awful OC.

Bottom line it is stupid to argue that Fitzpatrick does not deserve a substantial part of the credit for the six game turnaround.  Even on Marshall someone else noted that he and Cutler by the end were dysfunctional, and Cultler's performance in 15 was actually better than with Marshal in 14.  That suggests they both got better with a change of scenery.  And what was the change of scenery for Marshall?  Well a big part of it was Ryan Fitzpatrick.  So even Marshall's great year last year was in some measure to Fitz's credit.

There was an upgrade at DB sure but look at the price. Way way above market and the results weren't there. At least not for that money. That was the cap killer. And Mac's draft in 2015 so far looks way overrated. Only 3 guys ever hit the field. He cut 2 of his draft picks out of six. Williams was good but not an impact player at least yet. Mauldin was ok but was improving. Devin Smith so far a disappointment. So sure you should improve via the draft. And when you spend almost an entire treasure trove of cap space improvements are expected. 

[Joe Jets fan]

13 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

The Jets gave up more yards passing in 2015 than they did in 2014. They gave up less TDs and a lower completion percentage. Was the secondary better? Yes, but not by much. The Jets did get much better safety play, but Skrine and Cro were both very bad last season.

You realize that teams had to throw a lot more in 2015 then in 2014 because of being behind in games right?   Of course they gave up more yards.

[cant wait]

10 minutes ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Kyle Wilson played better in 2015 for his team than Buster Skrine played for the Jets, if you believe in PFF rankings. Skrine was very bad last season, just like he was every season before that. Want to see a bad contract, look at his.

 

 

PFF also said fitz was the 30th ranked QB last season, you pushing that one too? 

[jamesr]

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000665995/article/jeff-fisher-im-fine-with-nick-foles-sitting-out-otas

 

Quote

 

If the Rams could find a sucker to take Foles off their hands, he'd be traded. The guaranteed money might not even save the quarterback's roster spot when cuts come this summer.

Unlike Bradford, Foles wasn't slotted as the starter entering offseason workouts even prior to the team trading up for a rookie. The Rams had already realized he was a terrible decision-maker who short-circuited their goal of protecting the football while relying on the ground game. Over the past two seasons Foles has a 20-20 TD-INT ratio. Even those with terrible vision can see he's not starting quarterback material.

 

 

I'd rather have Geno, thanks.

[PatsFanTX]

You realize that teams had to throw a lot more in 2015 then in 2014 because of being behind in games right?.

So that 3-0 deficit 5 minutes into the game was the reason Derrick Carr threw for 333 yards and 4 TD's?