Jared Goff demoted to 3rd string- what a mess for the Rams

[UnitedWhofans]

I was told you don't take project QBs in the early rounds. The Rams took one with the number 1 pick

[Beerfish]

I personally hope the Rams totally implode for two reasons.

1) I have never liked fisher and have always thought he was massively overrated as coach.

2) I like to see teams that move locations go into the sewer, on behalf of the jilted ex fan base.

[Villain The Foe]

3 hours ago, NYs Stepchild said:

The thing is that no one would trade away a premiere QB no matter what you offered. They obviously have doubts if they are willing to listen.

It's hard to know what an NFL premiere QB is as a rookie. We have many premiere QB's today that were 2nd round picks or below. I've never been a fan to trade up/sell the farm for a rookie simply because the pundits say that "you must get your franchise QB" or "He's a cant miss" when a good portion of the premere QB's in the league today were completely missed on. Its almost disrespect to actual franchise QB's...guys who've actually showed and proved. I remember Sanchez being "The Sanchize". Geno was the franchise, Hack is the franchise, etc. And thats just talking about our own QB's. Numerous teams do this, meanwhile Derek Carr was a 2nd round pick, Russell was a 3rd round pick, Brees was a 2nd round pick, Dalton was a 2nd round pick, Brady was a 6th round pick, etc. Aaron Rodgers, arguably the best QB in the league today was passed over for the majority of the 1st round in the same draft where the 49er's took Alex Smith with the 1st pick. Now, let me be honest with my last statement, you look at Aaron Rodger's college highlights and you wouldnt think that "he" would be the Aaron Rodgers we know today. 

 

The bottomline is, its pretty much a guessing game. You like things about a guy but there is no such thing as a "cant miss" guy, which is why its foolish to mortgage your future for a guy...not because its still just a guess, but even if you're right you end up not being able to build around him because you mortgaged your future to get him. One of the best teams imo doing it the correct way are the Raiders. These guys have been one of the best drafting teams the past 3 or 4 seasons, and they got their QB in the 2nd round. And looking back at it, I'd rather have Derek Carr than Blake Bortles, Teddy Bridgewater or Johnny football....all 1st round picks. 

[Augustiniak]

i think it's a problem.  the rams clearly thought goff would start from day 1.  unlike wentz he hasn't missed time with an injury.  the rams thought they could do what the bucs and titans did last year, but goff isn't close to those qbs in talent.  i am curious to see how prescott and wentz do this weekend, esp. prescott vs. the giants.

[Villain The Foe]

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

i think it's a problem.  the rams clearly thought goff would start from day 1.  unlike wentz he hasn't missed time with an injury.  the rams thought they could do what the bucs and titans did last year, but goff isn't close to those qbs in talent.  i am curious to see how prescott and wentz do this weekend, esp. prescott vs. the giants.

You know a name I havent heard all preseason? Connor Cook. Anything on Cook this offseason? 

[Augustiniak]

Just now, Villain The Foe said:

You know a name I havent heard all preseason? Connor Cook. Anything on Cook this offseason? 

he's a backup.  haven't heard anything.  carr is the man.

[Villain The Foe]

Just now, Augustiniak said:

he's a backup.  haven't heard anything.  carr is the man.

Yeah, I figured. I just havent heard a thing about Cook, good or bad. After I wrote you I then remembered that he was picked up in the 4th by Da Raidahz

[NYs Stepchild]

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

It's hard to know what an NFL premiere QB is as a rookie. We have many premiere QB's today that were 2nd round picks or below. I've never been a fan to trade up/sell the farm for a rookie simply because the pundits say that "you must get your franchise QB" or "He's a cant miss" when a good portion of the premere QB's in the league today were completely missed on. Its almost disrespect to actual franchise QB's...guys who've actually showed and proved. I remember Sanchez being "The Sanchize". Geno was the franchise, Hack is the franchise, etc. And thats just talking about our own QB's. Numerous teams do this, meanwhile Derek Carr was a 2nd round pick, Russell was a 3rd round pick, Brees was a 2nd round pick, Dalton was a 2nd round pick, Brady was a 6th round pick, etc. Aaron Rodgers, arguably the best QB in the league today was passed over for the majority of the 1st round in the same draft where the 49er's took Alex Smith with the 1st pick. Now, let me be honest with my last statement, you look at Aaron Rodger's college highlights and you wouldnt think that "he" would be the Aaron Rodgers we know today. 

 

The bottomline is, its pretty much a guessing game. You like things about a guy but there is no such thing as a "cant miss" guy, which is why its foolish to mortgage your future for a guy...not because its still just a guess, but even if you're right you end up not being able to build around him because you mortgaged your future to get him. One of the best teams imo doing it the correct way are the Raiders. These guys have been one of the best drafting teams the past 3 or 4 seasons, and they got their QB in the 2nd round. And looking back at it, I'd rather have Derek Carr than Blake Bortles, Teddy Bridgewater or Johnny football....all 1st round picks. 

In my lifetime there are 3 QBs considered can't miss that I can think of. Elway, Peyton, and Luck. Maybe Carson Palmer. No one was ever going to take offers for these players.

All the rest had doubters.  

[Villain The Foe]

8 minutes ago, NYs Stepchild said:

In my lifetime there are 3 QBs considered can't miss that I can think of. Elway, Peyton, and Luck. Maybe Carson Palmer. No one was ever going to take offers for these players.

All the rest had doubters.  

Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russell were also considered cant miss prospects. 

[C Mart]

14 hours ago, detectivekimble said:

I really don't see the issue with easing a first-year QB in.  Some guys need a little longer to get it going and/or the situation isn't quite right.  I'm sure Houston regrets throwing David Carr behind that sh*t offensive line.  Not even Peyton Manning would have developed in that situation.

Guess who was in Houston for that?

[C Mart]

2 hours ago, Beerfish said:

I personally hope the Rams totally implode for two reasons.

1) I have never liked fisher and have always thought he was massively overrated as coach.

2) I like to see teams that move locations go into the sewer, on behalf of the jilted ex fan base.

Like the LA Rams jilted fan base when they moved to St Louis? 

[ZachEY]

15 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

look Im just trying to be positive about the situation and say lets not judge the kid until we actually see him get some work in ..is that too much to ask ?

I think, herein lies the problem.  No one is saying the book is written on Hackenberg, or that it's impossible for him to improve.  They're saying that based on what we've seen so far, including college, training camp, and the preseason, there's just not a lot to like, and not a lot of reason, besides just hoping things turn out differently than the evidence suggests, to think he'll turn into a reasonable player.  Those who are more optimistic don't get to set the bar for when it's okay to evaluate a prospect/player for those who are aware of his body of work thus far.

[C Mart]

13 hours ago, Lupz27 said:

Because the 2nd pick overall is starting week 1 despite missing all of the preseason with broken ribs.  Rams made the wrong pick.

So you are basing the pick success just on who takes the field first? 

Cant make this stuff up. 

 

[PLO]

1 hour ago, Villain The Foe said:

Ryan Leaf and Jamarcus Russell were also considered cant miss prospects. 

A lot of scouts thought Russell was not even a 2nd round prospect, let alone the number one pick; I miss Al Davis

[drdetroit]

Been sayin all along this guy was going to be a bust.  Him and Lynch

[drdetroit]

6 minutes ago, PLO said:

A lot of scouts thought Russell was not even a 2nd round prospect, let alone the number one pick; I miss Al Davis

I remember people saying leaf was better than Manning

[Villain The Foe]

3 minutes ago, PLO said:

A lot of scouts thought Russell was not even a 2nd round prospect, let alone the number one pick; I miss Al Davis

Many of those same scouts though thought Ryan Leaf was a cant miss prospect. My initial point though was that a good portion of the premiere QB's in the league today were not even 1st round picks, let alone #1 picks in the draft. I mean, we have guys who werent even drafted that went down as one of the best QB's in NFL history (Kurt Warner).

You can go throughout history and see just how wrong Scouts/franchises have been when it comes to the "true" cant miss guys....meaning the all time greats. Joe Montana, considered the greatest QB of all time was a 3rd round pick. Tom Brady, considered to be either the best QB of all-time, and if not...only 2nd to Joe Montana was a 6th round pick. Warren Moon wasnt drafted, Kurt Warner wasnt drafted, Brett Favre was a 2nd round pick, Steve Young was a 3rd round pick. 

The initial point is that you have a better chance of being more diligent when looking for your QB instead of trading the farm. We have a truly "Cant Miss" prospect like every 10 years or so....yet within those 10 years there's a plethora of talented QB's that should have been #1 picks or atleast 1st round picks found in the 2nd, 3rd, 4th rounds and below. It's too much of a risk to trade all of that and run the risk of finding out if you have a Peyton Manning or a Ryan Leaf, an Andrew Luck or an RG3 for example. 

 

You're better off drafting Andy Dalton in the 2nd and using the rest of your draft picks to develop a team around him....thats what smart organizations do. 

[Smashmouth]

27 minutes ago, gEYno said:

I think, herein lies the problem.  No one is saying the book is written on Hackenberg, or that it's impossible for him to improve.  They're saying that based on what we've seen so far, including college, training camp, and the preseason, there's just not a lot to like, and not a lot of reason, besides just hoping things turn out differently than the evidence suggests, to think he'll turn into a reasonable player.  Those who are more optimistic don't get to set the bar for when it's okay to evaluate a prospect/player for those who are aware of his body of work thus far.

Not a reflection on you but some here actually have taken that stance on Hackenberg. Either way I wont judge him on his college play because of what I mentioned earlier it was a hot mess the way he was handled in College. On the flip side how many insanely good College QB's have we seen fall flat on their faces under the pressure of the NFL ?

A few things I took from watching Hackenberg this pre-season is he did have a very nice TD drive and he showcased his arm and his touch. He also showed he can stand in the pocket and not crumble like so many others we have seen. His lack of work being the 4th QB from pretty much day one tells a tale as well when it comes to him feeling comfortable in the offense I think that TD drive was based solely on talent since I think his grasp of the offense has to be lacking at this stage.

What we do know is he has all the talent in the world and he's a smart kid all I did was take some positives from his play this pre season because at this stage that's really all you can do. Basing his smarts off of things we have heard and also from Gruden's evaluation of his football acumen which he claimed was off the charts.

Now If I saw him bailing pre maturely in the pocket and worrying too much about the rush and constantly throwing off his back foot that stuff would have concerned me but I didn't see much of that. Those are bad traits I see in Geno Smith and I fully believe that's what's holding him back.

Another Impressive trait you can take from Hackenberg was the fact the guy played behind one of the most horrid Offensive lines I have ever seen he basically had no chance yet he stayed tough and he still stays tough in the pocket now. I think that's a really good thing because some QB's are ruined after a beating like that.

Passing

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Passing Table

						Passing
Year	School	Conf	Class	Pos	G	Cmp	Att	Pct	Yds	Y/A	AY/A	TD	Int	Rate
2013	Penn State	Big Ten	FR	QB	12	231	392	58.9	2955	7.5	7.4	20	10	134.0
*2014	Penn State	Big Ten	SO	QB	13	270	484	55.8	2977	6.2	5.3	12	15	109.4
*2015	Penn State	Big Ten	JR	QB	13	192	359	53.5	2525	7.0	7.2	16	6	123.9
Career	Penn State					693	1235	56.1	8457	6.8	6.5	48	31

[Villain The Foe]

6 hours ago, NYs Stepchild said:

The thing is that no one would trade away a premiere QB no matter what you offered. They obviously have doubts if they are willing to listen.

The thing is, having doubt or not having doubt doesnt prove a thing. Al Davis thought that there was no doubt that Russell was the next big thing in the league, going as far as firing his head coach for disagreeing with him. 

 

He was wrong. 

[NYs Stepchild]

4 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

The thing is, having doubt or not having doubt doesnt prove a thing. Al Davis thought that there was no doubt that Russell was the next big thing in the league, going as far as firing his head coach for disagreeing with him. 

 

He was wrong. 

I'm talking about the potential for trading up to 1 to get a QB. If he has no flaws then no one will ever trade that pick. It will never happen. I'm not talking about any particular instance. 

So the point is that if a team traded for a number 1 pick then that QB has flaws...like Goff. 

[Villain The Foe]

Just now, NYs Stepchild said:

I'm talking about the potential for trading up to 1 to get a QB. If he has no flaws then no one will ever trade that pick. It will never happen. I'm not talking about any particular instance. 

And im saying that based on Al Davis position on Russell, he wouldnt have entertained talks of trading out of his position because he felt like Russell was a cant miss. 

Remember, Its two parties. One holding the #1 spot, and the other looking to move up. Al Davis was sure of Russell, and when reports came out that Russell threw a football 70 yards while on his knees....the rest of the football analysis were on board as well. Granted, the coach wanted Calvin Johnson. 

[NYs Stepchild]

2 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

And im saying that based on Al Davis position on Russell, he wouldnt have entertained talks of trading out of his position because he felt like Russell was a cant miss. 

Remember, Its two parties. One holding the #1 spot, and the other looking to move up. Al Davis was sure of Russell, and when reports came out that Russell threw a football 70 yards while on his knees....the rest of the football analysis were on board as well. Granted, the coach wanted Calvin Johnson. 

That's true. If any team is completely sold on a QB prospect they will not entertain offers. I don't care if you offered your next 3 #1s plus your entire roster. There are some guys that every team is completely sold on. Those are only available to teams with the #1 pick. There's no other way to get them...unless of course the player refuses to sign with your team. That's got to suck.

[JoJoTownsell1]

19 hours ago, Matt39 said:

As bad as the Hackenberg pick looks at least that's not the Jets. 

Neither pick looks bad. Honestly, both guys weren't ready yet. Goff, like Lynch, needed way more time to learn an NFL offense than the scouts thought. And everyone knew Hack was a project. Now that camp is over some of you are acting surprised that a "project QB" needs to time to develop. It's comical. Sure we all hoped to see Hack become Aaron Rodgers in 3 months, but that wasn't reasonable. 

The only difference between Hack and Goff is that the Jets didn't waste the 1st pick in the draft on a kid that is FAR from being ready. But don't be surprised to see both of these kids looking really good next season. 

[JoJoTownsell1]

4 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

+1

My understanding (from others) was that Goff's main attribute was that he could start right away. This is what made him leapfrog Wentz, and is what separated him from others with more theoretical upside like Lynch, Hackenberg, and a douche like Cook.

Sure, that was the hope. But if Goff evolves into a franchise QB next year I don't think the Rams will care what the new Twitter (GIVE IT TO ME NOW) universe thought in September of 2016. 

We live in an age of ZERO patience. Sure they thought/hoped he'd be ready to go week 1, but just because he isn't ready week 1 doesn't make him a bust etc..

[Sperm Edwards]

3 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Sure, that was the hope. But if Goff evolves into a franchise QB next year I don't think the Rams will care what the new Twitter (GIVE IT TO ME NOW) universe thought in September of 2016. 

We live in an age of ZERO patience. Sure they thought/hoped he'd be ready to go week 1, but just because he isn't ready week 1 doesn't make him a bust etc..

I missed where I called him a bust.

[Smashmouth]

The way the Jets handled Hack was different than the Way Goff and Lets say Wentz were handled. Those guys came in with a chance to compete and received way more reps than Hack did by a large margin. The Jets NEVER intended Hack to compete for anything this year and the only reason they even gave him a shot to play in the last 2 pre season games was to give him a feel of the NFL speed he will be facing, it was basically a point of reference for him to build on.

There is no evaluation of Hack at this stage because there's nothing to evaluate. The Jets saw him in college and they made their pick and how they handle him from this point on and how they feel about him right now is something only they know in discussions between Gailey Bowles and Macc. We wont know much or see much until next year. Until then this is a totally worthless debate on what we think he might be whether its optimistic or not. The jets didn't pick him for his stats in college they picked him for his talent his size and his brains and that's about it.

[Mogglez]

9 hours ago, The Crusher said:

I would like to admit that I am 100% one of those idiots.  Oh yeah you forgot to add Wilson.  Draft, play, win.  That's my triune of the NLF quarterback.  Seasoning is for food if you ask this fatman. 

Hell I'll admit that I would love nothing more for one of those situations to happen to us.  I'd be thrilled as anyone if the Jets got a QB that was just a plug and play.  That being said, it's just unrealistic.  I actually meant to add Wilson, just forgot. 

Not everyone can cook ribs perfectly the first time.  Some get lucky, others need to give them some extra time in the slow cooker.