One NFL Player You Can Be Sure Won't Be Taking A Knee During National Anthem On 9/11

[ARodJetsFan]

1 hour ago, Integrity28 said:

Catapano got traded to the Pats?

Don't know what you mean.

Have you been drinking again?

[Integrity28]

42 minutes ago, ARodJetsFan said:

Don't know what you mean.

Have you been drinking again?

Pats play Cardinals this week, Carson Palmer's team. Bengals QB is Andy Dalton.

Yes, I have been drinking.

[BUM-KNEE]

13 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Pats play Cardinals this week, Carson Palmer's team. Bengals QB is Andy Dalton.

Yes, I have been drinking.

I resemble that club white Sasquatch.

[New York Mick]

4 hours ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

Yeah. Even if someone could formulate a contract that suppresses someone's rights, why would they sign that?

Money

[ylekram]

7 hours ago, ARodJetsFan said:

That's pretty ridiculous, how dare you.

USS Simpson FFG-56 1990-1993.

Look it up.

We can agree to disagree, I don't expect anybody who hasn't served their country in some branch of the military and been involved in a foreign conflict or war overseas for their country, to understand - but don't ever question my integrity - or my service again.

Next time, just say thank you.

too bad you served your country in war and weren't a cop. then they could really let you have it. cnn told me cops are bad people

[RutgersJetFan]

2 hours ago, sirlancemehlot said:

Those attributes belong to blacks, whites, Hispanics...

[CrazyCarl40]

7 hours ago, New York Mick said:

Money

No lawyer would ever let that contract be signed and could have a field day in court. Not a chance a clause like that can ever be done. 

[ARodJetsFan]

8 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

Pats play Cardinals this week, Carson Palmer's team. Bengals QB is Andy Dalton.

Yes, I have been drinking.

Maybe I've been drinking.....LOL.

Alright Catapano, light Andy Dalton up.

[ARodJetsFan]

8 hours ago, ylekram said:

too bad you served your country in war and weren't a cop. then they could really let you have it. cnn told me cops are bad people

Tell me about it....it really doesn't matter though.

Like I have said several times in this thread, I don't expect the majority of people to understand my point of view because they don't have my life experience and perspective.

There is a huge difference between real life experience and listening to stories and speculation.

When you give something back to your country and sacrifice, like I and other veterans have done, by serving your country in the military, leaving your family and friends behind and going overseas and going to war - instead of just living your life by taking whatever you can, which is what most people do, it changes you.

It gives you a very unique point of view.

What I've said - or maybe the way that I've said it, has rubbed some people here the wrong way and they have voiced their opinion about it, which is their right and I support that.

People have been offended and spouted off about their Patriotism, stating that they are as Patriotic as I am - even though they have never served in the military or defended & fought for their country in a war.

It doesn't change the truth - You have not done what I have done, you have not seen the things I've seen and you haven't made the sacrifices I've made to stand up & defend this country & the ideals it stands for. These are facts, like them or not.

Well to those people that have been offended, I'll ask you - What have you done to give back to your country?

And please - spare me the "I'm a taxpayer" line, I've paid taxes my whole life too, you have to do better then that.

 

 

 

[Nostradamus]

13 hours ago, Villain The Foe said:

 

Welp, you quickly put an end to that debate. 

Exactly. Which is why I made my original statement. The title of the thread and the article itself had nothing to do with one another outside of the posters personal take on players taking the knee. All that while trying to use 9/11 in order to gain emotional support given that particular day in history. To then turn around and call the thread hijacked is quite hilarious when it was the title itself that hijacked the article which kicked off the conversation to begin with. You cant create the conversation through your title, then consider the conversation hijacked because the conversation isnt turning out as you intended! 

15 hours ago, Nostradamus said:

Ya, I see your point...probably shouldn't have called it hijacked.  

[ZachEY]

15 minutes ago, ARodJetsFan said:

Tell me about it....it really doesn't matter though.

Like I have said several times in this thread, I don't expect the majority of people to understand my point of view because they don't have my life experience and perspective.

There is a huge difference between real life experience and listening to stories and speculation.

When you give something back to your country and sacrifice, like I and other veterans have done, by serving your country in the military, leaving your family and friends behind and going overseas and going to war - instead of just living your life by taking whatever you can, which is what most people do, it changes you.

It gives you a very unique point of view.

What I've said - or maybe the way that I've said it, has rubbed some people here the wrong way and they have voiced their opinion about it, which is their right and I support that.

People have also gotten offended and spouted off about their Patriotism, stating that they are as Patriotic as I am - even though they have never served in the military or defended & fought for their country in a war.

Well to those people, I'd say, what have you given back to your country?

And please - spare me the "I'm a taxpayer" line, I've paid taxes my whole life too, you have to do better then that.

 

 

 

Are you black?

[ARodJetsFan]

1 minute ago, gEYno said:

Are you black?

Puerto-Rican American.

[ZachEY]

1 minute ago, ARodJetsFan said:

Puerto-Rican American.

So, if no one can relate to you, as a Puerto-Rican American combat veteran, and can't judge your experience/opinions and understand your perspective (even other veterans), perhaps you, and others, can't quite relate to what it's like to be a young black male in America today.

Perhaps then, you might consider heeding your own calls here.  And instead of thinking you know best, and becoming defensive... Try listening to those who have a life experience you do not share?

[ARodJetsFan]

21 minutes ago, gEYno said:

So, if no one can relate to you, as a Puerto-Rican American combat veteran, and can't judge your experience/opinions and understand your perspective (even other veterans), perhaps you, and others, can't quite relate to what it's like to be a young black male in America today.

Perhaps then, you might consider heeding your own calls here.  And instead of thinking you know best, and becoming defensive... Try listening to those who have a life experience you do not share?

I was a Puerto-Rican kid that grew up in an all-white neighborhood in the 70's & 80's.

You don't think I have a pretty good idea what Black-Americans have gone through and in some cases continue to go through?

Think about that for a few minutes before you answer.

Trust me when I tell you that I have experienced racism first hand on numerous occasions growing up.

Caepernick has a valid point and I support him wanting to address the problem and voice his opinion, but, it's my opinion he was using the wrong venue and the wrong situation to try and make his case.

It's not necessary to be disrespectful to the our country and our country's flag to address the problem of racism.

[ZachEY]

7 minutes ago, ARodJetsFan said:

I was a Puerto-Rican kid that grew up in an all-white neighborhood in the 70's & 80's.

You don't think I have a pretty good idea what Black-Americans have gone through and in some cases continue to go through?

Think about that for a few minutes before you answer.

Caepernick has a valid point and I support him wanting to address the problem, but, he was using the wrong venue and the wrong situation to try and make his case.

With the great lengths you've gone to to differentiate your experience from everyone else's, I thought maybe you'd see to affording that same uniqueness to others, even if there may be some similarities.

I guess not.

[Villain The Foe]

11 hours ago, sirlancemehlot said:

1. No refuge could save the hireling and slave.  Hireling = mercenary.  Slave may have any of several meanings including those basically taken and forced to fight for the British Navy:  "The United States declared war for several reasons, including trade restrictions brought about by the British war with France, the impressment of as many as 10,000 American merchant sailors into the Royal Navy".

I agree with some of this. I'll address the things that I question. Slave may have several meanings, though not related to the fact that the person who wrote the poem owned people as property himself? Many of those same people fought against the very people who declared war because they themselves was under the same sort of attack as what the US was trying to fight? Lets not romanticize or politically correct this. The man knew what he was saying because he himself owned slaves. You dont mention the word slaves, know that there were slaves that fought against their oppressors, such as the person who wrote the poem, then act like you werent talking about the people who were defined as slaves that was fighting against it. 

Quote

2. This is not the National Anthem as we know it.  It is a poem by Francis Scott Key regaling events of the War of 1812.

I agree. It's also not the same flag that we have today. 

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3. Slavery has absolutely nothing to do with people kneeling at NFL games (though I understand that's not your argument).

You're right, its about players using their professional platform to make a statement. Many people do it. We have plenty Jewish producers/directors who use their profession to produce movies detailing their history in the holocaust. Would any american say that the holocaust has nothing to do with movie making? Of course not. Robert Kraft is Jewish, he used his platform as an NFL franchise owner to have an entire stadium give a moment of silence for an 18 year old who was killed in the West Bank. Would any american say that Robert Kraft doing that during an NFL was the "wrong venue"? Of course not. Kaep gives a knee and all of a sudden its the wrong venue, or this "millionaire" is doing nothing but attention whoring and because of his financial status he cant relate and is basically pretending. Well, Robert Kraft is a Billionaire, is he suddenly out of touch with the jewish community and simply attention whoring because of his financial status? 

Im not saying you, but generally speaking I see alot of double standards depending on the group here. We can have an entire month for cancer awareness and every american will not say a word about it, meanwhile we can have an american take a knee and suddenly he's attention whoring, cant relate because of his financial status, he's half white, any of the above....instead of trying to understand why he's doing it and trying to empathize with that fact. Americans should be concerned with things like that when americans do something such as take a knee..no matter the venue, instead of trying to make it a disrespect to the flag, veterans, slavery or anything else that has nothing to do with the reason behind the knee. Also people calling this situation "perceived injustice", as if people dont know what the heck is happening to them in their own communities. It's rather dismissive.

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4. We stand for the Anthem to honor the sacrifices, hard work, ingenuity and unity of a nation.  Those attributes belong to blacks, whites, Hispanics, Asians, Native Americans, Christians, Jews, Muslims, the wealthy and the less fortunate.  The nation has evolved over generations and its been generations of Americans that have accelerated that evolution.  Abolitionists, women's suffrage movements, civil rights leaders...the list goes on.  We stand for the anthem to honor our soldiers who have fought and too often fallen in the defense of this country.  And those soldiers have been black, white, Hispanic, Asian, Native American, Christian, Jewish, Muslim, Wealthy and less fortunate.  

You're also correct, but when any of those people feel like the message represented by the anthem is somehow being lost when it comes to their communities, then its their responsibility to use their platform to bring light to it, just like a Robert Kraft would. The situations specifcally are different of course, but the reasons for the actions are very similar. 

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5. Kneeling for the anthem is a choice.  Its a freedom many other countries on this planet would never allow.  But its a freedom available to any American.  Kaepernick and his copy-cats are misguided.  No one thinks this country is perfect.  No one thinks our history is perfect.  But it is a country by, for, and of the people.  All of the people.  Turning up your nose at the National Anthem is no different than turning your back on the people who've given a hell of a lot more than Colin Kaepernick to make the United States what it is, imperfect as that might be. 

I dont see how you're free to do something then turn around and then call their freedom to do something misguided. Either its about freedom or obedience. Again, when you feel like your people are not free to flourish within their community then the act isnt misguided. This is not about whether the country is perfect or not, its about the act being completely taken out of context. People have already associated the act to 9/11, disrespect of veterans (as if veterans from those communities havent done the same) etc. Instead of people concentrating on Kaep's reason for the knee. 

 

Again, I hear your reason, but everyone is concentrating on the action and not the reason behind the action...saying its the wrong venue when other groups use the same venue for any cause they deem important, and its respected. 

 

[ARodJetsFan]

7 minutes ago, gEYno said:

With the great lengths you've gone to to differentiate your experience from everyone else's, I thought maybe you'd see to affording that same uniqueness to others, even if there may be some similarities.

Racism is racism, there really isn't anything unique about it.

It's just a disease that needs to be eradicated.

I do understand that you're saying each individual's perspective is unique & different in some way.

I still don't believe that kneeling or sitting during the national anthem is the proper way to express it.

[New York Mick]

1 hour ago, CrazyCarl40 said:

No lawyer would ever let that contract be signed and could have a field day in court. Not a chance a clause like that can ever be done. 

They already have a code of conduct agreement. It could just be added to it. 

[ZachEY]

12 minutes ago, ARodJetsFan said:

Racism is racism, there really isn't anything unique about it.

...

I still don't believe that kneeling or sitting during the national anthem is the proper way to express it.

Disagree with your first paragraph.  Things are always more nuanced and complex than that.

Your last... That's fine.  But maybe he does.  And since he has a unique perspective and a unique platform, maybe we afford him a little credibility as expert on his life and experience.  He's not hurting anyone, so maybe we quell the misguided outrage that prevents listening, learning, and growth?

[Flushing Roots]

27 minutes ago, gEYno said:

Disagree with your first paragraph.  Things are always more nuanced and complex than that.

Your last... That's fine.  But maybe he does.  And since he has a unique perspective and a unique platform, maybe we afford him a little credibility as expert on his life and experience.  He's not hurting anyone, so maybe we quell the misguided outrage that prevents listening, learning, and growth?

He has a unique perspective and we can afford him credibility ON HIS LIFE.  I'll give you that. 

However, doing this disrespects the military who fought and died for his right to express his opinions.

He should have thought about THEM.  This tells me he's not too smart or doesn't give a sh*t about the vets.  Neither is good.

His credibility?  Tarnished IMO by his choosing this forum to lodge his protest.

Be happy to listen, learn and grow from his experiences but don't disrespect the vets during the national anthem.

 

[Villain The Foe]

2 hours ago, gEYno said:

Are you black?

 

2 hours ago, ARodJetsFan said:

Puerto-Rican American.

 

1 hour ago, gEYno said:

So, if no one can relate to you, as a Puerto-Rican American combat veteran, and can't judge your experience/opinions and understand your perspective (even other veterans), perhaps you, and others, can't quite relate to what it's like to be a young black male in America today.

Perhaps then, you might consider heeding your own calls here.  And instead of thinking you know best, and becoming defensive... Try listening to those who have a life experience you do not share?

 

1 hour ago, ARodJetsFan said:

I was a Puerto-Rican kid that grew up in an all-white neighborhood in the 70's & 80's.

You don't think I have a pretty good idea what Black-Americans have gone through and in some cases continue to go through?

Think about that for a few minutes before you answer.

Trust me when I tell you that I have experienced racism first hand on numerous occasions growing up.

Caepernick has a valid point and I support him wanting to address the problem and voice his opinion, but, it's my opinion he was using the wrong venue and the wrong situation to try and make his case.

It's not necessary to be disrespectful to the our country and our country's flag to address the problem of racism.

Simply experiencing racism doesnt suddenly give you a pretty good idea of what Negro's have gone through. I'll give you some examples and you tell me if you have a pretty good idea of this. You can completely remove racism from the topic and there are still plenty of things that Blacks have lost that people simply cannot relate to. 

 

Blacks have no idea about their history and no longer have a homeland. You are Puerto Rican, many Puerto Rican friends of mine growing up in NY have family in Puerto Rico with a government ran by Puerto Ricans in their homeland. How many black people do you know who have ties/a connection back to their homeland and have a government that directly representing their culture and people? I have plenty of friends who go to PR to go visit their Grandparents in Maunabo for example. Go to their homeland to visit the new and old San Juan, go back "Home" in order to enjoy the beautiful beaches in Ponce. My first love was puerto rican, I've been to Puerto Rico....and having a connection to not just your people, but a homeland for your people is something that you have...something that you can never understand not having. That right there is something that you cant understand. Culture and background is the foundation for any group of people. You can empathize with that, but you cant understand what it's like. I remember my girlfriends mother (back when I was in high school) calling her mom in PR to get recipes for Pasteles, or my GF calling her mom so she can figure out how to get the skin "crispy" on the Pernil. That right there seems insignificant, but its one of the most important things about culture, having something as simple as food dishes surviving through the generations. "Soul Food" was not our food lol...trust me. 

Speaking of background, Puerto Ricans have cultural background such as food or religion for example. Black people have no idea about their cultural background, what they ate back home in their homeland, their tongue, their traditions...whether religious or otherwise...etc. Puerto Ricans have Puerto Rican tradition, something that can keep you grounded as a Puerto Rican. American Blacks had their culture destroyed and replaced with "rap".  

Puerto Ricans speak Spanish, the native language of your homeland. Blacks speak English, NOT the native tongue of their homeland. 

A couple weeks ago we have Trump make a statement about the Kaep situation, and saying "If you dont like it you can leave the country". Well, generally speaking Puerto Ricans for example could go to their homeland if they felt like America wasnt exactly the place for them, and it would generally be a smoother transition given that Puerto Ricans have available to them their culture, language and country. Where are blacks going honestly? You put blacks on a plane to their homeland...how would that work for them exactly? Will they be able to identify with the people already there? Will they speak the same language, eat the same food, have a similar value system, traditions etc.? 

Sometimes, the best place to get the proper understanding about people and the issues they face is by going to them specifically and not thinking that you relate because you had a brush with racism. Someone calling me the "N" word, thinking that im dangerous given my complexion and stature, or having the power to keep me in a particular social class doesnt even touch the surface of what blacks have sacrificed for this country....and I mean sacrificed. But thats the case when you're the only group of immigrants in this country that as a group came here involuntarily and against your will. 

Just like you believe that people cant understand your POV given your specific experiences, it would be unwise to think that you can just "relate" to what blacks go through when the issues are so pervasive most blacks themselves cant even identify the issues they face just based on the fact that their cultural history has been completely wiped from memory. 

 

 

[NYs Stepchild]

43 minutes ago, ARodJetsFan said:

Racism is racism, there really isn't anything unique about it.

It's just a disease that needs to be eradicated.

I do understand that you're saying each individual's perspective is unique & different in some way.

I still don't believe that kneeling or sitting during the national anthem is the proper way to express it.

It's not a disease and it cannot be eradicated. It's an idea, and this is the very reason why we cannot seem to rid ourselves of it. You cannot suppress ideas, you need to expose them. 

I don't care if the guy sits during the anthem, but if he really wants unity then disrespecting the country is going to have the exact opposite effect. People need to think things through. Start with deciding what your goal is, then form a plan to achieve that outcome. 

People that mistrust black people will see this as an affirmation that they do not fell they are a part of this country. 

People that do not trust white people will see that reaction as an affirmation that white people do not see them as true Americans. 

Nothing will ever be solved until, if ever we put the past behind us and accept people for who they are. Like a divided locker room we need to buy into the plan, and all pull the same direction. This putting the name on the back of the jersey ahead of the name on the front business will only cause more turmoil. We're all Americans. 

Of course everyone has the right to believe what they want but expecting to kill hate with more hate is misguided. If that's truly what he wants. 

[Kevin L]

33 minutes ago, Flushing Roots said:

 

 

33 minutes ago, Flushing Roots said:

He has a unique perspective and we can afford him credibility ON HIS LIFE.  I'll give you that. 

However, doing this disrespects the military who fought and died for his right to express his opinions.

He should have thought about THEM.  This tells me he's not too smart or doesn't give a sh*t about the vets.  Neither is good.

His credibility?  Tarnished IMO by his choosing this forum to lodge his protest.

Be happy to listen, learn and grow from his experiences but don't disrespect the vets during the national anthem.

 

I have to respectfully disagree here. Personally, I never felt that standing for the Anthem had anything to do with veterans. 

As a retired Navy guy myself, I don't feel disrespected by anyone who chooses not to stand. Their right to not stand is one of the many freedoms that I enlisted to defend.

I can't obviously speak for the entire military community, but I personally know quite a few veterans who not only aren't feeling disrespected, but actually agree with Kaep.

Kaepernicks' chosen form of protest might rub some people the wrong way, but as an American he has that right, and as a fellow American I and many others like me will defend his right to protest.

 

[Villain The Foe]

15 minutes ago, NYs Stepchild said:

It's not a disease and it cannot be eradicated. It's an idea, and this is the very reason why we cannot seem to rid ourselves of it. You cannot suppress ideas, you need to expose them. 

 

Dude, you get it. 

[Villain The Foe]

Edit

[Villain The Foe]

Edit

[Larz]

I might take a knee

it will be to pick up the remote, but hey, I'm old

[Villain The Foe]

2 minutes ago, Larz said:

I might take a knee

it will be to pick up the remote, but hey, I'm old

Make sure not to leave your knee down there old man! 

[Larz]

Just now, Villain The Foe said:

Make sure not to leave your knee down there old man! 

oh, if its during the anthem, thats what kids are for, lol

[Flushing Roots]

42 minutes ago, Kevin L said:

 

I can't obviously speak for the entire military community, but I personally know quite a few veterans who not only aren't feeling disrespected, but actually agree with Kaep.

 

 

Understood.  However he should have thought about those vets who DO feel disrespected.

They have earned that respect, no?

[Kevin L]

5 minutes ago, Flushing Roots said:

Understood.  However he should have thought about those vets who DO feel disrespected.

They have earned that respect, no?

Yes they have, and if his protest was aimed at veterans I might feel differently about it. But it isn't about vets at all.

[ARodJetsFan]

24 minutes ago, Kevin L said:

Yes they have, and if his protest was aimed at veterans I might feel differently about it. But it isn't about vets at all.

Alot of veterans, myself included, don't see it that way.

Whether he meant it that way - or not, that's how many interpret it.

Like I have said numerous times, there are more appropriate venues to address this in.

On a national stage - during our country's national anthem - is not appropriate.

Obviously some people don't see it that way - but I do.

[Larz]

Just now, ARodJetsFan said:

Alot of veterans, myself included, don't see it that way.

Like I have said numerous times, there are more appropriate venues to address this in.

I find it somewhat curious that melo was more or less praised for using his celebrity athlete status to make a statement, MJ was villified until he had to release a statement written by a PR rep, and kaep gets a mixed bag.

It might because we take football so much more seriously, I dunno

[ARodJetsFan]

3 minutes ago, Larz said:

I find it somewhat curious that melo was more or less praised for using his celebrity athlete status to make a statement, MJ was villified until he had to release a statement written by a PR rep, and kaep gets a mixed bag.

It might because we take football so much more seriously, I dunno

I'll say this:

In my opinion, there are a lot of very young men in the NFL, that have virtually no life experience in the real world outside of football, that take a lot of things for granted.

[Larz]

5 minutes ago, ARodJetsFan said:

I'll say this:

In my opinion, there are a lot of very young men in the NFL, that have virtually no life experience in the real world outside of football, that take a lot of things for granted.

star athletes are spoiled to a degree, a lot of their mistakes are covered up, but a lot of these kids grew up in tough neighborhoods where you have to grow up by age 10

you can't be serious with that