T0mShane Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 17 hours ago, dbatesman said: Bowles is getting fired in eleven months, so he doesn't enter into the equation. Drafting a running back at 6 would be dumping resources in the most literal sense of the term. But if you're firing Bowles and have to sell the job to the next coach, which is the better package: A. Hey, come take this job. We offer two petulant defensive ends and a free safety --or-- B. Hey, come take this job. We offer a pretty good rushing attack and two petulant defensive ends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 11 hours ago, Shadetree said: ...Or Sean Taylor, which everyone seems to be saying about Adams. Meh. Didn't they say Pryor was like Kam Chancellor? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 1 hour ago, T0mShane said: But if you're firing Bowles and have to sell the job to the next coach, which is the better package: A. Hey, come take this job. We offer two petulant defensive ends and a free safety --or-- B. Hey, come take this job. We offer a pretty good rushing attack and two petulant defensive ends. No coach worth a sh*t is taking this job for the foreseeable future, so that dog won't hunt either. Look, If you want us to draft a running back because it will make the team marginally more watchable, that's fine, but just say so. There is no universe in which taking a back at 6 makes sense from a value standpoint. You say a safety drafted at 6 has to be Ronnie Lott to be worth it? What about a running back? We're talking about the most fungible position in the sport. Fournette would have to be a more durable AD for me to even consider it, and maybe not even then. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 19 minutes ago, dbatesman said: No coach worth a sh*t is taking this job for the foreseeable future, so that dog won't hunt either. Look, If you want us to draft a running back because it will make the team marginally more watchable, that's fine, but just say so. There is no universe in which taking a back at 6 makes sense from a value standpoint. You say a safety drafted at 6 has to be Ronnie Lott to be worth it? What about a running back? We're talking about the most fungible position in the sport. Fournette would have to be a more durable AD for me to even consider it, and maybe not even then. If Fournette can come in and make the otherwise sh*t offense look passable, I'd think that'd be a feature that could make the job more palatable to NextCoach is all I'm saying, and it--BONUS!--makes the product better for us lowly fans in the meantime. But, again, I'm not over here banging the table for a running back in that slot. I'm just saying that watching a DB coach head coach spend his first two years giving huge money and high draft picks to defensive backs is giving me flashbacks to Rex throwing pick after pick at defensive linemen. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derp Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 The recent track record of first round running backs is horrific. Seems like everyone is somehow blinded by how well Elliott worked out for the Cowboys. Their offensive line is absurdly good. Even look at Adrian Peterson, who has worked out well and had an awesome career. The Vikings overall didn't have good QB play early in his career (or late either frankly). Then because he's so good they had to re-sign him to a big deal. Aside from having a fun back to watch, where has he gotten them. A running back might be a day one starter. But they'll either be a quick fix at the position or they might not work out at all. The old adage used to be that wide receivers were like hood ornaments on a car. I think that goes for running backs now. It's a nice last piece to put you over the top. The Jets are basically at stage one of a rebuild. They need long-term guys who can create an identity on either side of the ball. I don't think a back can do that alone right now. The line is okay and has a couple of massive question marks right now and I don't anticipate sufficient quarterback play to prevent defenses from stacking the box. They'd be setting up the guy to fail. Offensively obviously you want a quarterback first. Then offensive line. From there I think an elite elite receiver trumps a RB. Defensively the Jets have some good DL's. So I think edge rusher (which would be the priority anyway), followed by safety, then corner, then another ILB. Don't see them wanting two ILB's on the field for three downs and they kind of tied their wagon to Lee as the three down inside guy. Shutdown corners are great but they're so rare and teams miss there a lot trying to find one. Safety play on the other hand is so huge right now and you see defenses like Seattle or Baltimore and Pittsburgh back in the day heavily built around one or two guys. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 How much did Todd Gurley help the Rams offense this year? Because the Jets are the Rams, if not worse (we did actually lose head to head). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerfish Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 15 minutes ago, JiF said: How much did Todd Gurley help the Rams offense this year? Because the Jets are the Rams, if not worse (we did actually lose head to head). How much did the Dallas all world oline help them the year before this last one? I do not think there is anyway we will draft a RB high and after the rumor on Cook we probably shouldn't but when you draft a player you don;t just think, gee we are weak in one area better not draft a potential impact guy because he is hampered by that weakness. Also even though we stunk last year, one of the few bright spots was a Powell who had some great rushing games at the end of the year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 6 minutes ago, Beerfish said: How much did the Dallas all world oline help them the year before this last one? I do not think there is anyway we will draft a RB high and after the rumor on Cook we probably shouldn't but when you draft a player you don;t just think, gee we are weak in one area better not draft a potential impact guy because he is hampered by that weakness. Also even though we stunk last year, one of the few bright spots was a Powell who had some great rushing games at the end of the year. They were a top 10 rushing team that helped Darren McFadden rush for over 1,000 yards....Darren McFadden. They year before they led the league in rushing. And your point about Powell, is exactly my point. It's a plug and play position. The reason the Cowboys were able to be a dominate running team was because of a dude named Dak, not Zeke. Teams dont get better, they get better QB play. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
varjet Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 The Jets as usual are in a tough spot, but they need to balance drafting a player they need, who is valuable form a draft/FA perspective (difference between the draft slot comp and what FAs at that position go for/franchise tag) and a player that is going to be really good. If the Jets reach in the first round for a position of need, and then a player picked below that ends up being a star, people here are going to go bananas. For example, let's say they pick Tim Williams for EDGE in round 1, and he has a meh first year (like Beasley did last year), but Hooker or Adams ends up playing lights out as rookies. How do people react? Honestly, I can actually see that happening. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 1 minute ago, varjet said: The Jets as usual are in a tough spot, but they need to balance drafting a player they need, who is valuable form a draft/FA perspective (difference between the draft slot comp and what FAs at that position go for/franchise tag) and a player that is going to be really good. If the Jets reach in the first round for a position of need, and then a player picked below that ends up being a star, people here are going to go bananas. For example, let's say they pick Tim Williams for EDGE in round 1, and he has a meh first year (like Beasley did last year), but Hooker or Adams ends up playing lights out as rookies. How do people react? Honestly, I can actually see that happening. If the front office considers how people we react, we have already lost. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
T0mShane Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 4 minutes ago, JiF said: They were a top 10 rushing team that helped Darren McFadden rush for over 1,000 yards....Darren McFadden. They year before they led the league in rushing. And your point about Powell, is exactly my point. It's a plug and play position. The reason the Cowboys were able to be a dominate running team was because of a dude named Dak, not Zeke. Teams dont get better, they get better QB play. It's "dominant." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JiFtheOracle Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 3 minutes ago, T0mShane said: It's "dominant." That one particularly annoys you, doesnt it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
#27TheDominator Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 5 minutes ago, JiF said: That one particularly annoys you, doesnt it? Me too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Obrien2Toon Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 44 minutes ago, varjet said: The Jets as usual are in a tough spot, but they need to balance drafting a player they need, who is valuable form a draft/FA perspective (difference between the draft slot comp and what FAs at that position go for/franchise tag) and a player that is going to be really good. If the Jets reach in the first round for a position of need, and then a player picked below that ends up being a star, people here are going to go bananas. For example, let's say they pick Tim Williams for EDGE in round 1, and he has a meh first year (like Beasley did last year), but Hooker or Adams ends up playing lights out as rookies. How do people react? Honestly, I can actually see that happening. Tim Williams is the most Jetsy pick ever. A one skilled player who can't play football, he's the defensive equivalent of Devin Smith. So of course we'll take him Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dbatesman Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 3 hours ago, T0mShane said: If Fournette can come in and make the otherwise sh*t offense look passable, I'd think that'd be a feature that could make the job more palatable to NextCoach is all I'm saying, and it--BONUS!--makes the product better for us lowly fans in the meantime. But, again, I'm not over here banging the table for a running back in that slot. I'm just saying that watching a DB coach head coach spend his first two years giving huge money and high draft picks to defensive backs is giving me flashbacks to Rex throwing pick after pick at defensive linemen. I get that, but you're focusing on a specific symptom (flushing high picks on a position where the coach should be able to coach up scrubs) of a general problem (the coach just isn't very good). I also don't think anything short of a franchise QB is making this job palatable to anyone credible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
derp Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 1 hour ago, #27TheDominator said: Me too. Me three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoop24 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 Our offense has Zero elite players .. I don't care if it's a RB. if the player is the BPA on ur board take him .. this rebuild has to start somewhere aquiring better talent regardless of position is all we should be doing .. only place I wouldn't use the 1st is DLine. this being said Mike Williams is still the guy I want at #6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 3 hours ago, Obrien2Toon said: Tim Williams is the most Jetsy pick ever. A one skilled player who can't play football, he's the defensive equivalent of Devin Smith. So of course we'll take him Tim Williams was Vic Beasley a couple of years ago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
UnitedWhofans Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 2 hours ago, dbatesman said: I get that, but you're focusing on a specific symptom (flushing high picks on a position where the coach should be able to coach up scrubs) of a general problem (the coach just isn't very good). I also don't think anything short of a franchise QB is making this job palatable to anyone credible. Maybe if you include the other elements, but not having a franchise QB in and of itself is not a deal killer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joewilly12 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 5 hours ago, JiF said: How much did Todd Gurley help the Rams offense this year? Because the Jets are the Rams, if not worse (we did actually lose head to head). Todd Gurley had a bad season in 2016 but put him on the Jets in 2015 and we go deep into the playoffs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Awesumtenor Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 On 1/29/2017 at 0:21 AM, UnknownJetFan said: CrazyCarl40, we desperately need playmakers on O, and if they deem none of these QBs are worth picking (assuming any are there at 6) then we need someone on O to help any QB we have in there. If this RB ended up being like Elliot in Dallas none of us could complain. And if he ends up like Blair Thomas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scoop24 Posted January 30, 2017 Share Posted January 30, 2017 45 minutes ago, joewilly12 said: Todd Gurley had a bad season in 2016 but put him on the Jets in 2015 and we go deep into the playoffs. The biggest thing Gurley did for the rams was give them a face and identity . Teams went into games knowing they had to stop him. Which at the moment we don't have .. I don't think there is a player on our offense that keeps DC up a night .. Maybe Q but that's about it .. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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