impressed with free agency so far for Jets

[Gen X Jet]

[nyjunc]

10 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Mark Sanchez was never really good in the NFL. He just wasn't -- perpetuating the idea that he was successful with good players is just false. He was never an above average QB in the NFL over the course of a season. It's just not reality.

he certainly was a well above average QB in 2010.  there were't 10 better QBs that season.

[Augustiniak]

Just now, nyjunc said:

he certainly was a well above average QB in 2010.  there were't 10 better QBs that season.

in 2010, sanchez had the 27th best qb rating.  even fitzy was ahead of him at 22, along with shawn hill and chad henne.

[nyjunc]

1 minute ago, Augustiniak said:

in 2010, sanchez had the 27th best qb rating.  even fitzy was ahead of him at 22, along with shawn hill and chad henne.

there were not 10 better QBs, I don't care what a meaningless rating says. how many times did he bring us back late? he made plays to win not to get fantasy points like so many other QBs Jet fans seem to think are good.

[Augustiniak]

Just now, nyjunc said:

there were not 10 better QBs, I don't care what a meaningless rating says. how many times did he bring us back late? he made plays to win not to get fantasy points like so many other QBs Jet fans seem to think are good.

he was 29th in completion percentage and 19th in td passes.  sometimes stats matter.  every single stat says he was below average or way below average.  

maybe the reason he had comeback wins was because he sucked most of the game. 

[ScarletKnight89]

1 hour ago, nyjunc said:

which is still better than running out of the end zone while scrambling.

nah, it wasn't their fault that they sucked and couldn't get open in the NFL.  it was all Mark's fault which was why he sucked w/ Holmes, Cotch, keller and Edwards too- oh wait he was really good w/ those guys.

 

He's hanging on to his NFL life by a thread...If he was "really good" with those guys he'd be starting somewhere in this league right now. Instead he's bounced around the league as a fringe backup. The Jets were a very good team in 2009 and 2010 and he played a part in that. Overall, he was a bad NFL QB.

[kevinc855]

4 hours ago, Phillyjet said:

we talk about it every year, developing through the draft and signing your own players.  Everyone knows we are not a player away.  At some point you have to commit to player development.  Glad they are following the script.  Would prefer a cheaper back-up veteran on short-term money in the QB room, and then rolling with our young QBs.  If they flail, then we have a high pick in a loaded draft next year.  If they develop, then we are drafting our way to a solid team with a new look.

I, for one, am willing to tank, to take a chance on player development.  Otherwise, we'll have more years of mediocrity, and one-off good seasons followed by 4-12.  You want a big long run like the Raiders are setting themselves up to do?  You need to be willing to take the pain.

Or we end up with a decade of losing like the Browns. For all the complaining jet fans do we went to the playoffs more then most teams since 2000. Depending on a bunch of young kids is a dumb strategy 

[Augustiniak]

1 minute ago, kevinc855 said:

Or we end up with a decade of losing like the Browns. For all the complaining jet fans do we went to the playoffs more then most teams since 2000. Depending on a bunch of young kids is a dumb strategy 

the browns suck because they keep drafting duds at qb.  the bengals stunk for a while, then they started drafting well and got good.  that's how the jets have to do it, they aren't going to be able to lure real good free agents with a coach who may get canned after the season and no real commitment to offense in the past decade.

[Awesumtenor]

2 hours ago, Rangers9 said:

Idzik did that and got run out of town. He decided 2014 was a rebuild year and wanted to save the money for 2015. I can't tell you about all of the expletives we heard about him.  You know this fanbase. 

Idzik figured saddling Rex with Geno as a starter...a rookie coming from a spread offense not ready to face NFL defenses... would be enough to get Rex fired. When they went 8-8 and Rex got extended, Idzik decided to not have any NFL caliber defensive backs the following year; they went 4-12 with 8 of those losses by one score. That got Rex fired; what Idzik didn't see coming was it's getting him fired as well.

[JoJoTownsell1]

6 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Or we end up with a decade of losing like the Browns. For all the complaining jet fans do we went to the playoffs more then most teams since 2000. Depending on a bunch of young kids is a dumb strategy 

Depending on young kids is a dumb strategy if you want to be competitive every year. Agreed. But if you are trying to build a super bowl team or even a dynasty you sometimes need to be bad for a couple of years, ESPECIALLY the year before a franchise QB is expected to be coming out in the draft. 

This year may suck, but how awesome will it be to have our very first legit franchise QB since Namath? I have already sat down my 9 year old and explained to him that we will be awful this year. He isn't happy, but I think he gets the bigger picture. We have some decent young players, we can add a few more this year. Pick up a franchise QB next year in the draft (along with some more young pieces) then use our cap space carryover fill the holes and put a very good team on the field in 2018. 

I'd also be happy if Hack/Petty emerge as a franchise QB or if we draft one this year, but I am not too confident in that happening. 

[UntouchableCrew]

29 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

there were not 10 better QBs, I don't care what a meaningless rating says. how many times did he bring us back late? he made plays to win not to get fantasy points like so many other QBs Jet fans seem to think are good.

"I don't care about meaningless things like "facts" by gawd he was top ten!"

You sound delusional.

[kevinc855]

7 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Depending on young kids is a dumb strategy if you want to be competitive every year. Agreed. But if you are trying to build a super bowl team or even a dynasty you sometimes need to be bad for a couple of years, ESPECIALLY the year before a franchise QB is expected to be coming out in the draft. 

This year may suck, but how awesome will it be to have our very first legit franchise QB since Namath? I have already sat down my 9 year old and explained to him that we will be awful this year. He isn't happy, but I think he gets the bigger picture. We have some decent young players, we can add a few more this year. Pick up a franchise QB next year in the draft (along with some more young pieces) then use our cap space carryover fill the holes and put a very good team on the field in 2018. 

I'd also be happy if Hack/Petty emerge as a franchise QB or if we draft one this year, but I am not too confident in that happening. 

Betting on the second coming of Jesus and for all the starts to align right to draft Darnold who may have a terrible year/get hurt etc is a straight up DANGEROUS gamble.

[Rangers9]

13 minutes ago, Awesumtenor said:

Idzik figured saddling Rex with Geno as a starter...a rookie coming from a spread offense not ready to face NFL defenses... would be enough to get Rex fired. When they went 8-8 and Rex got extended, Idzik decided to not have any NFL caliber defensive backs the following year; they went 4-12 with 8 of those losses by one score. That got Rex fired; what Idzik didn't see coming was it's getting him fired as well.

I don't believe any of your spin. Idzik did try to sign two good corners and neither of them wanted to come here. He signed Garrard but he was injured and couldn't play. Not anyone's fault that Mark was injured. And it's possible Geno would have beaten him out. Mark was coming off of a terrible year. He has regressed a lot. 

[JoJoTownsell1]

4 minutes ago, kevinc855 said:

Betting on the second coming of Jesus and for all the starts to align right to draft Darnold who may have a terrible year/get hurt etc is a straight up DANGEROUS gamble.

What's the gamble? Worst case scenario a different QB prospect emerges as the number 1 pick or an elite Left tackle or edge rusher.  

In your best case scenario, we blow some cap money on some vets, it all comes together and we go 8-8, miss the playoffs and miss out on an elite prospect to build around? 

I'm pretty sure my gamble is the safer bet than your gamble. 

[Gee Andrezzi]

8 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

Depending on young kids is a dumb strategy if you want to be competitive every year. Agreed. But if you are trying to build a super bowl team or even a dynasty you sometimes need to be bad for a couple of years, ESPECIALLY the year before a franchise QB is expected to be coming out in the draft. 

This year may suck, but how awesome will it be to have our very first legit franchise QB since Namath? I have already sat down my 9 year old and explained to him that we will be awful this year. He isn't happy, but I think he gets the bigger picture. We have some decent young players, we can add a few more this year. Pick up a franchise QB next year in the draft (along with some more young pieces) then use our cap space carryover fill the holes and put a very good team on the field in 2018. 

I'd also be happy if Hack/Petty emerge as a franchise QB or if we draft one this year, but I am not too confident in that happening. 

I only have 1 issue with purposely tanking for a possible franchise QB..you never really know what you're getting these days.

After Hack's freshman year at Penn, all the mock draft experts said he would be a sure "top 10 pick franchise QB"...uhhhhh lol now those same people are saying We should look for a QB in this draft...

while I do have faith that maybe Hack does have the ability due to he ran a pro style system under bill obrien his freshman year (the one year he looked really good)...

a lot of times you just have to get lucky and it really depends on if the guy has it or not on the inside. (I.e. Brady, Russell Wilson, dak...so far, mariota, Winston)

maybe Hack is the future, maybe not..

maybe darnold is the future, maybe not...

we will never know until they actually play and get a leash to command an offense(i.e. Bryce petty...we know he's not the future cause he played and got the chance)

lets give Hack the same chance petty got...worst case scenario we suck and end up with a high pick next year

 

[nyjunc]

39 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

"I don't care about meaningless things like "facts" by gawd he was top ten!"

You sound delusional.

you sound like someone who didn't watch him play and are only looking at blind #s.  he was really good in 2010, I ask again to please name 10 better starting QBs that season(not careers but THAT season).

[nyjunc]

1 hour ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

He's hanging on to his NFL life by a thread...If he was "really good" with those guys he'd be starting somewhere in this league right now. Instead he's bounced around the league as a fringe backup. The Jets were a very good team in 2009 and 2010 and he played a part in that. Overall, he was a bad NFL QB.

you don't win 4 playfof games on the road in back to back seasons w/ a bad QB.  even truly great defenses(which we never had) couldn't do that.

[UntouchableCrew]

3 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

you sound like someone who didn't watch him play and are only looking at blind #s.  he was really good in 2010, I ask again to please name 10 better starting QBs that season(not careers but THAT season).

Here's the thing though -- you are the one making the outrageous claim. NOBODY thinks Mark Sanchez was ever a top 10 QB. No joke, find me a single credible soul on planet earth who thinks that. When everyone who follows the game says you're wrong and every fact, figure, and statistic says you're wrong and you simply say "I saw it with my eyes" then clearly there's something wrong with your eyes. 

Brady, Rodgers, Manning, Rivers, Vick, Freeman, Roethlisberger, Brees, Ryan, and Flacco. 

The fact of the matter is that Mark Sanchez was a bad QB in the bottom 10 of the NFL in 2010 that hamstrung a talented team from reaching its potential. He wasn't all bad, he had some big games and some big moments. I genuinely like the guy. But he was never "good" and claiming he was is simply BS and needs to be called out as such. It has no basis in reality -- you can't provide any evidence that he was ever top ten because none exists.

[JoJoTownsell1]

32 minutes ago, Gee Andrezzi said:

I only have 1 issue with purposely tanking for a possible franchise QB..you never really know what you're getting these days.

After Hack's freshman year at Penn, all the mock draft experts said he would be a sure "top 10 pick franchise QB"...uhhhhh lol now those same people are saying We should look for a QB in this draft...

while I do have faith that maybe Hack does have the ability due to he ran a pro style system under bill obrien his freshman year (the one year he looked really good)...

a lot of times you just have to get lucky and it really depends on if the guy has it or not on the inside. (I.e. Brady, Russell Wilson, dak...so far, mariota, Winston)

maybe Hack is the future, maybe not..

maybe darnold is the future, maybe not...

we will never know until they actually play and get a leash to command an offense(i.e. Bryce petty...we know he's not the future cause he played and got the chance)

lets give Hack the same chance petty got...worst case scenario we suck and end up with a high pick next year

 

I am all for giving Hack and Petty a chance. I am even ok with drafting another kid. But we need to build through the draft and not find stop gaps in free agency (Matt forte type signings). If Hack or Petty look great and we win 8 games. I'd be happy. But if we go 8-8 with Cutler then this franchise doomed. 

[nyjunc]

1 minute ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Here's the thing though -- you are the one making the outrageous claim. NOBODY thinks Mark Sanchez was ever a top 10 QB. No joke, find me a single credible soul on planet earth who thinks that. When everyone who follows the game says you're wrong and every fact, figure, and statistic says you're wrong and you simply say "I saw it with my eyes" then clearly there's something wrong with your eyes. 

Brady, Rodgers, Manning, Rivers, Vick, Freeman, Roethlisberger, Brees, Ryan, and Flacco. 

The fact of the matter is that Mark Sanchez was a bad QB in the bottom 10 of the NFL in 2010 that hamstrung a talented team from reaching its potential. He wasn't all bad, he had some big games and some big moments. I genuinely like the guy. But he was never "good" and claiming he was is simply BS and needs to be called out as such. It has no basis in reality -- you can't provide any evidence that he was ever top ten because none exists.

he sure was that season.  is trent Dilfer credible?

 

Quote

Trent Dilfer: He was on Colin Cowherd’s show this morning and offered up this analysis of Mark Sanchez: “Mark Sanchez is playing … top 6-7-8 QBs in this league. I’m just looking at the tape and grading plays … he’s in the top third in the league in playing QB right now.

that was in November of 2010

http://thebiglead.com/2010/11/08/trent-dilfer-is-really-bullish-on-mark-sanchez/

 

Brady yep

rodgers yep

manning yep

rivers nope. had #1 ranked defense and couldn't even get his team to the playoffs in that weak division.  

Vick yep

Freeman nope. put up meaningless #s, when his team needed him most he failed

Ben yep

Brees yep

Ryan yep

flacco very similar

 

I get it, most fans just look at out of context #s but look at what mark did that year(and by the way he was credited w/ 2 bogus INTs against GB) in leading the team back at den, at Cle, at Det, vs. Hou at Indy in the playoffs.  he had a couple of bad games but overall was really good, w/ that guy we are SB contenders in 2015 rather than the good fantasy season we got out of Fitz which fooled fans.

Mark didn't hold back either the 2009 or 2010 Jets, he elevated both teams.  we lost b/c the D couldn't protest a double digit lead against a legendary choker in 2009 and the D got steamrolled at Pitt in 2010.

[#27TheDominator]

39 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

I don't believe any of your spin. Idzik did try to sign two good corners and neither of them wanted to come here. He signed Garrard but he was injured and couldn't play. Not anyone's fault that Mark was injured. And it's possible Geno would have beaten him out. Mark was coming off of a terrible year. He has regressed a lot. 

What two corners?  Vontae Davis signed before free agency even started.  He let DRC walk.  If you top two choices signe elsewhere, what do you do?  How far down that list is sign Dimitri Patterson?  Great fall back option.  Cromartie signed for 1 year/$3M.  

[UntouchableCrew]

2 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

he sure was that season.  is trent Dilfer credible?

 

that was in November of 2010

http://thebiglead.com/2010/11/08/trent-dilfer-is-really-bullish-on-mark-sanchez/

 

Brady yep

rodgers yep

manning yep

rivers nope. had #1 ranked defense and couldn't even get his team to the playoffs in that weak division.  

Vick yep

Freeman nope. put up meaningless #s, when his team needed him most he failed

Ben yep

Brees yep

Ryan yep

flacco very similar

 

I get it, most fans just look at out of context #s but look at what mark did that year(and by the way he was credited w/ 2 bogus INTs against GB) in leading the team back at den, at Cle, at Det, vs. Hou at Indy in the playoffs.  he had a couple of bad games but overall was really good, w/ that guy we are SB contenders in 2015 rather than the good fantasy season we got out of Fitz which fooled fans.

Mark didn't hold back either the 2009 or 2010 Jets, he elevated both teams.  we lost b/c the D couldn't protest a double digit lead against a legendary choker in 2009 and the D got steamrolled at Pitt in 2010.

Okay, I get it, you're immune to logic. Have a nice life.

[Gee Andrezzi]

8 minutes ago, JoJoTownsell1 said:

I am all for giving Hack and Petty a chance. I am even ok with drafting another kid. But we need to build through the draft and not find stop gaps in free agency (Matt forte type signings). If Hack or Petty look great and we win 8 games. I'd be happy. But if we go 8-8 with Cutler then this franchise doomed. 

Agreed.. forte was already broken down but the good thing is his deal is short and small anyway so it's no repurcussions in another year or 2.

i honestly think our best scenario is to go in with Hack, petty, and draft brad kaaya from Miami in the later rounds. His mechanics are actually pretty good, and he's got good size. Most of the picks this year should be focused on defense.

[#27TheDominator]

4 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

he sure was that season.  is trent Dilfer credible?

 

that was in November of 2010

http://thebiglead.com/2010/11/08/trent-dilfer-is-really-bullish-on-mark-sanchez/

 

Brady yep

rodgers yep

manning yep

rivers nope. had #1 ranked defense and couldn't even get his team to the playoffs in that weak division.  

Vick yep

Freeman nope. put up meaningless #s, when his team needed him most he failed

Ben yep

Brees yep

Ryan yep

flacco very similar

 

I get it, most fans just look at out of context #s but look at what mark did that year(and by the way he was credited w/ 2 bogus INTs against GB) in leading the team back at den, at Cle, at Det, vs. Hou at Indy in the playoffs.  he had a couple of bad games but overall was really good, w/ that guy we are SB contenders in 2015 rather than the good fantasy season we got out of Fitz which fooled fans.

Mark didn't hold back either the 2009 or 2010 Jets, he elevated both teams.  we lost b/c the D couldn't protest a double digit lead against a legendary choker in 2009 and the D got steamrolled at Pitt in 2010.

You might be insane.  54.8%, 17/13 and 204 yards per game?  You think the D wasn't great and Sanchez was top 10?  Rivers was way better.  ******* wwwwaaaaaaayyyyy better.  Freeman was better, so were Cassel and Schaub. Sanchez was literally not in the top 10 in any statistical category.  Stats don't matter?  He personally sh*t the bed in 4 of the Jets 5 losses.  In 3 of them, even remotely competent quarterbacking would have won the game handily.  I know... The weather! The refs!  Trent Dilfer is no genius, that quote was the radio equivalent of click bait and that was said at the halfway point of the season.  Also, this is from your own link Worth noting: Dilfer and Sanchez share the same agent (David Dunn).  Mark Sanchez never elevated anything more than hot dog sales in Oakland. 

[nyjunc]

24 minutes ago, UntouchableCrew said:

Okay, I get it, you're immune to logic. Have a nice life.

that is a heck of an argument.  good job.  you sure proved your point!

[nyjunc]

11 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

You might be insane.  54.8%, 17/13 and 204 yards per game?  You think the D wasn't great and Sanchez was top 10?  Rivers was way better.  ******* wwwwaaaaaaayyyyy better.  Freeman was better, so were Cassel and Schaub. Sanchez was literally not in the top 10 in any statistical category.  Stats don't matter?  He personally sh*t the bed in 4 of the Jets 5 losses.  In 3 of them, even remotely competent quarterbacking would have won the game handily.  I know... The weather! The refs!  Trent Dilfer is no genius, that quote was the radio equivalent of click bait and that was said at the halfway point of the season.  Also, this is from your own link Worth noting: Dilfer and Sanchez share the same agent (David Dunn).  Mark Sanchez never elevated anything more than hot dog sales in Oakland. 

Rivers had the #1 ranked Defense in a WEAK division and couldn't make the playoffs w/ more talent around him.  Sorry, stats w/o making plays to win are meaningless.

Freeman played w/ no pressure to win and when he had some pressure late in the year he melted.

Cassell in one playoff game at HOME had 3 INTs which equaled what sanchez threw on the road in 6 playoff games.

Schaub

 

ohhh so it was b/c they shared the same agent.  got it.  compelling argument.  

The bottom line is Mark was GREAT vs. NE, vs. Mia at NE in the playoffs, led some amazing comebacks including at Den, at Cle, at Det, Hou, at Indy in the playoffs, outplayed a HOFer in a monsoon where he didn't turn it over once while Favre had multiple TOs. he was really good, I get fans only look at #s w/o context to "judge" players but you really should actually watch these guys play.

 

[#27TheDominator]

Kyle Orton.  Do you understand that?  Kyle Orton.  

[#27TheDominator]

Jay Cutler

[Rangers9]

29 minutes ago, #27TheDominator said:

What two corners?  Vontae Davis signed before free agency even started.  He let DRC walk.  If you top two choices signe elsewhere, what do you do?  How far down that list is sign Dimitri Patterson?  Great fall back option.  Cromartie signed for 1 year/$3M.  

Davis was given an offer from the Jets and decided to stay with Indy. And DRC chose the Giants over us. 

[dcJet]

Sanchez is a nice guy and we all rooted for him, but bottom line - he sucked.  . 

Yes, he made a couple of comebacks, but good nfl QB's do that regularly without throwing away the next 2 games.  Dude can't even throw a screen pass.

He over-performed in the playoffs surprising us - dont tell me you werent surprised.

97 turnovers in 77 games.   That's horrific, Geno Smith bad right there.

[ScarletKnight89]

44 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

you don't win 4 playfof games on the road in back to back seasons w/ a bad QB.  even truly great defenses(which we never had) couldn't do that.

Why is he a Free Agent coming off a season where he was a 3rd string QB then? The whole league is wrong on him?

Our defense was very good and kept us in the game all the time during those seasons and we had a great O-Line. Sanchez did some good things at times. But did a lot of bad things as well.

[#27TheDominator]

2 minutes ago, Rangers9 said:

Davis was given an offer from the Jets and decided to stay with Indy. And DRC chose the Giants over us. 

My first choice did not agree to my terms.  I guess I will curl up in a ball and cry.  Seems like sound general managing. 

[UntouchableCrew]

7 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

that is a heck of an argument.  good job.  you sure proved your point!

Why would I waste my time making valid counterpoints to someone who is clearly allergic to logic? You're so far removed from reality that obvious facts and points are simply retorted by citing team success and downplaying bafflingly bad games and turnovers as not his fault.

[ZachEY]

nyjunc is right because he says that he is right.  How has no one learned this yet?

[#27TheDominator]

2 minutes ago, ScarletKnight89 said:

Why is he a Free Agent coming off a season where he was a 3rd string QB then? The whole league is wrong on him?

Our defense was very good and kept us in the game all the time during those seasons and we had a great O-Line. Sanchez did some good things at times. But did a lot of bad things as well.

Listen, nyjunc and Trent Dilfer agree.  Everyone else must be crazy.