Get a weapon, build the OL, evaluate Petty + Hack

[nico002]

That's a successful 2017 regardless of record.

Put the pieces you need to really evaluate a QB and play the young guys.

If they show nothing go all in on a QB in 2018 and they'll have a great offensive foundation to join.

then go all defense in 2019

[SickJetFan]

20 minutes ago, nico002 said:

That's a successful 2017 regardless of record.

Put the pieces you need to really evaluate a QB and play the young guys.

If they show nothing go all in on a QB in 2018 and they'll have a great offensive foundation to join.

then go all defense in 2019

sensible approach but defense helps a young QB too so I dont care who they pick as long as they are good and sans QB

[thadude]

We're drafting nothing but Strong Safeties then cutting Hack in January when the new GM and coach are hire

[FTL Jet Fan]

Have to agree with the OP about our O-Line? We have holes everywhere but without a solid line no QB can be a complete success . Look at Dallas, and Miami is starting to get their O-line problems fixed especially if they draft Lamp in the first with Tunsil moving to LT, they have a young OL. Pouncey is having hip problems so I expect the Fins to draft an OL early. Unless a pass rusher or CB falls to them. They got lucky with Tunsil. Unfortunate their are no top 10 LT prospects this year.

[Integrity28]

We have a sh*t roster, take the best ******* players you are fortunate to have fall to you. Period.

The ONLY position group that doesn't need to be picked is DL. Otherwise, bring the talent ... all of it.

Don't reach on OL in a draft that is weak on the position just to stick to a "plan". The plan is, the Jets are a bottom-3 team. Get as many good players as you can. Doesn't matter where they line up, frankly.

[Lray]

I really hope Bolles falls to us in the 2nd. All the hype on him really died down over the past months but his tape remains the same. No he's not top 10 and he's not 21 years old but he could be a quality starter this season and for the foreseeable future; maybe not week 1 but midseason sure.


Sent from my iPhone using JetNation.com mobile app

[JiFtheOracle]

The Jets resigned Winters, tendered Johnson, picked up Beachum, still have Carpenter and i think they like Shell, Dozier and Ijalana. 

I'm just not sure OL is going to be a priority in this draft.  If they do, I think they stick with the trend of not going OL to the 5th round the earliest.

Since I doubt we're going to QB and giving Hack and Petty a shot, I 100% agree we should give them a shiny new weapon.  Howard, Williams or Davis are quickly becoming my preference tonight. 

[Powpow]

1 hour ago, nico002 said:

That's a successful 2017 regardless of record.

Put the pieces you need to really evaluate a QB and play the young guys.

If they show nothing go all in on a QB in 2018 and they'll have a great offensive foundation to join.

then go all defense in 2019

Duh someone ate their Cherrios this morning. Send Mac a box just for good measure. 

[Powpow]

21 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

We have a sh*t roster, take the best ******* players you are fortunate to have fall to you. Period.

The ONLY position group that doesn't need to be picked is DL. Otherwise, bring the talent ... all of it.

Don't reach on OL in a draft that is weak on the position just to stick to a "plan". The plan is, the Jets are a bottom-3 team. Get as many good players as you can. Doesn't matter where they line up, frankly.

True but if we trade back that OL pick in the 20's becomes a nice value pick and fills a dire need. 

[Lil Woody]

6 minutes ago, JiF said:

The Jets resigned Winters, tendered Johnson, picked up Beachum, still have Carpenter and i think they like Shell, Dozier and Ijalana. 

I'm just not sure OL is going to be a priority in this draft.  If they do, I think they stick with the trend of not going OL to the 5th round the earliest.

Since I doubt we're going to QB and giving Hack and Petty a shot, I 100% agree we should give them a shiny new weapon.  Howard, Williams or Davis are quickly becoming my preference tonight. 

Getting the shiny new weapon and getting an OL later seems totally in line with the OP.  I like Carpenter and Winters, but that's all we really know about. And even Winters we are projecting to continue to improve.  I like Shell too, but he's an unknown. He could develop into a great starter or the last 6 weeks could have been his best Wayne Hunter impersonation. We will see.  I'm hopeful.  That still leaves LT and OC as critical holes. If we got Elfien or someone this draft at Center we are potentially 1 position away from a good OL.  Granted it's the hardest one to get, but still.  We can overpay bandaids like Beachum or Clady or whoever until we can draft one. This team is still going to be 2-3 years away from being competitive even if everything breaks right from here on out.  Progress is all we can ask for. I hope we make some progress on offense tonight.

[SickJetFan]

12 minutes ago, JiF said:

The Jets resigned Winters, tendered Johnson, picked up Beachum, still have Carpenter and i think they like Shell, Dozier and Ijalana. 

I'm just not sure OL is going to be a priority in this draft.  If they do, I think they stick with the trend of not going OL to the 5th round the earliest.

Since I doubt we're going to QB and giving Hack and Petty a shot, I 100% agree we should give them a shiny new weapon.  Howard, Williams or Davis are quickly becoming my preference tonight. 

agreed - where would you play this shiny new toy OL - take Beachum spot? no... Take Shell spot...well ok guess you put him on shelf a few years what a waste

maybe you pick him just in case Beachum gets hurt...well ok why re-sign Ben?

I would not be opposed to drafting OL but hopefully it will be 5th round or later

[Tinstar]

If this team is not going to draft a QB, they should give the QBs on the roster the best possible chance to succeed . Draft McCaffrey let him be the 3rd down slot receiver and special teams ace this year before taking over at RB next year full time . Then I would draft Conley in the 2nd and a safety and TE in the 3rd .

[Integrity28]

14 minutes ago, Powpow said:

True but if we trade back that OL pick in the 20's becomes a nice value pick and fills a dire need. 

Trading back isn't exactly easy.

[Integrity28]

2 minutes ago, Tinstar said:

If this team is not going to draft a QB, they should give the QBs on the roster the best possible chance to succeed . Draft McCaffrey let him be the 3rd down slot receiver and special teams ace this year before taking over at RB next year full time . Then I would draft Conley in the 2nd and a safety and TE in the 3rd .

I'd keep Decker in the slot. He runs the best routes and creates a ton of mismatches. Rookie RBs can't always pass protect, which will defeat the purpose of helping the QB.

[JiFtheOracle]

12 minutes ago, Lil Woody said:

Getting the shiny new weapon and getting an OL later seems totally in line with the OP.  I like Carpenter and Winters, but that's all we really know about. And even Winters we are projecting to continue to improve.  I like Shell too, but he's an unknown. He could develop into a great starter or the last 6 weeks could have been his best Wayne Hunter impersonation. We will see.  I'm hopeful.  That still leaves LT and OC as critical holes. If we got Elfien or someone this draft at Center we are potentially 1 position away from a good OL.  Granted it's the hardest one to get, but still.  We can overpay bandaids like Beachum or Clady or whoever until we can draft one. This team is still going to be 2-3 years away from being competitive even if everything breaks right from here on out.  Progress is all we can ask for. I hope we make some progress on offense tonight.

Me too.  I'm just scared because all the rumors are they're focused on the D.  

 

11 minutes ago, SickJetFan said:

agreed - where would you play this shiny new toy OL - take Beachum spot? no... Take Shell spot...well ok guess you put him on shelf a few years what a waste

maybe you pick him just in case Beachum gets hurt...well ok why re-sign Ben?

I would not be opposed to drafting OL but hopefully it will be 5th round or later

 

Yeah and I'm not in love with any of the top OL prospects too and there are some intriguing late round guys. 

[Lil Woody]

5 minutes ago, JiF said:

Me too.  I'm just scared because....

Hey hey hey....none of that....sack up snowflake.

Hope for the best but have some bourbon ready for when the Jets do Jets things.

 

[Powpow]

10 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

Trading back isn't exactly easy.

Agreed. That's why I'm rethinking who we get and when to fill all these holes you speak of.  If we stay put at 6, you are left with either BAP or slightly reach for a guy like Barnett that fills a hard core need. I say this because this draft is extremely deep in CB's, TE's, RB's and safeties but thin at edge rushers. By the time we pick in round 2 these edge guys will all be gone. Good CB, te's, rb's and safeties are all over this draft. 

[Powpow]

20 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

I'd keep Decker in the slot. He runs the best routes and creates a ton of mismatches. Rookie RBs can't always pass protect, which will defeat the purpose of helping the QB.

I don't see the point of keeping Decker on this roster. He's expensive, coming off of numerous injuries and has no one to throw to him. Cut him, trade him whatever. Clear the cap space for next year. He's definitely out after this year anyways so might as well cut ties now. Get rid of Harris as well. Time for a complete makeover. 

[Integrity28]

12 minutes ago, Powpow said:

Agreed. That's why I'm rethinking who we get and when to fill all these holes you speak of.  If we stay put at 6, you are left with either BAP or slightly reach for a guy like Barnett that fills a hard core need. I say this because this draft is extremely deep in CB's, TE's, RB's and safeties but thin at edge rushers. By the time we pick in round 2 these edge guys will all be gone. Good CB, te's, rb's and safeties are all over this draft. 

I like Barnett. Team's boards don't necessarily reflect the idiot mock drafter boards. I'd have no issues with him at #6 because I think his skillset translates well to the NFL. I don't see him busting.

The key is to add contributors. Filling holes is something you do when you have 80% of your roster justifiably in the NFL. In our case, the entire roster is a hole. So just add players who belong in the league for starters. 

This draft has specific strengths to it, I would hope we can exploit that in later rounds. EDGE, CB, TE and RB all make sense across the first 4-5 rounds. Likely in that order.

[JoJoTownsell1]

Drafting BPA is the way to go, but unless Adams/Garrett fall to us at 6, there is a good chance that there won't be a clear cut BPA when we draft. Guys like Lattimore/Hooker/Thomas won't/shouldn't be graded any higher than the likes of Fournette/OJ Howard etc.. So if all things are equal, or really close to equal then you DEFINITELY go offense. 

Ideally, we should be trading down but I have a bad feeling the Browns will find a way to trade up at 4/5 and leave us "stuck" at 6. 

 

[Powpow]

Just now, Integrity28 said:

I like Barnett. Team's boards don't necessarily reflect the idiot mock drafter boards. I'd have no issues with him at #6 because I think his skillset translates well to the NFL. I don't see him busting.

The key is to add contributors. Filling holes is something you do when you have 80% of your roster justifiably in the NFL. In our case, the entire roster is a hole. So just add players who belong in the league for starters. 

This draft has specific strengths to it, I would hope we can exploit that in later rounds. EDGE, CB, TE and RB all make sense across the first 4-5 rounds. Likely in that order.

Word up homie! I'd go 1- Barnett, 2- cb (there are like 10 with a 2nd round grade), 3-TE Everett, 3-S Joshua Jones, 5- RB Jamal Williams. 

[Integrity28]

2 minutes ago, Powpow said:

Word up homie! I'd go 1- Barnett, 2- cb (there are like 10 with a 2nd round grade), 3-TE Everett, 3-S Joshua Jones, 5- RB Jamal Williams. 

You're hired!

[Maxman]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

The Jets resigned Winters, tendered Johnson, picked up Beachum, still have Carpenter and i think they like Shell, Dozier and Ijalana. 

I'm just not sure OL is going to be a priority in this draft.  If they do, I think they stick with the trend of not going OL to the 5th round the earliest.

Since I doubt we're going to QB and giving Hack and Petty a shot, I 100% agree we should give them a shiny new weapon.  Howard, Williams or Davis are quickly becoming my preference tonight. 

Howard makes a ton of sense when you look at need and helping out a young QB.

[Powpow]

2 minutes ago, Integrity28 said:

You're hired!

And imagine if we could trade back and add a 2nd rounder. Just another position filled  to replenish The Black Hole.

[peebag]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

The Jets resigned Winters, tendered Johnson, picked up Beachum, still have Carpenter and i think they like Shell, Dozier and Ijalana. 

I'm just not sure OL is going to be a priority in this draft.  If they do, I think they stick with the trend of not going OL to the 5th round the earliest.

Since I doubt we're going to QB and giving Hack and Petty a shot, I 100% agree we should give them a shiny new weapon.  Howard, Williams or Davis are quickly becoming my preference tonight. 

If they don't address the OL somehow....I don't see any QB that will survive.

[Powpow]

1 minute ago, Maxman said:

Howard makes a ton of sense when you look at need and helping out a young QB.

Howard makes no sense. There are so many outstanding TE's in this draft we can wait until round 3 to pick one up. Edge Edge Edge!!! We haven't had an impact Edge guy since Lawrrence Taylor and he wasn't even on our team. Barnett is a beast. At 6 he's a bit high but fills as big a need as QB on this lousy roster. Barnett will be gone by pick 15 and the first Edge taken, guaranteed. 

[Villain The Foe]

3 hours ago, nico002 said:

That's a successful 2017 regardless of record.

Put the pieces you need to really evaluate a QB and play the young guys.

If they show nothing go all in on a QB in 2018 and they'll have a great offensive foundation to join.

then go all defense in 2019

I 100% agree with you. This is why my mock looked like this. 

 

I really like Nathan Peterman and Patrick Mahomes, but we need to stop wasting picks, and going high for Mahomes will probably end up wasting 2 picks, 1 in Hack and the other being Mahomes because we have nothing around them. This is also why I am diametrically opposed to going defense in the 1st round. I dont care about this being a defense-heavy draft. That just simply means that we need to go offense early if we're looking to get top offensive talent. Going defense in the 1st round for the 9th year in a row is only going to irritate me as well as refusing to secure top offensive rookie talent to support the QB's we're trying to evaluate. 

In my mock I have McCaffery in the 1st given that he's versatile and can create matchup problems given his ability to run routes and catch. I have us drafting 3 offensive linemen in Garret Bowles, Jon Toth and Ethan Cooper, and the imo the best blocking TE coming out this year in George Kittle. 

Hackenberg will have support on the offensive line, an immediate upgrade at TE that can block and is sneaky good in the pass game and a versatile RB that can put strain on any base defense given that if you put him out wide you basically have a LB covering him which is a win for the offense and in the running game he has great vision and patience. Even threw in a project WR in the 7th to learn behind the current young guys for more depth. 

Providing Hackenberg or even Petty with help on the oline and in the running game will be the only way possible to evaluate them, or any QB for that matter. If Hack doesnt show promise then we'll more than likely be picking in the top 20 next season given that we most likely wont be making the playoffs and THEN we can go for that QB. By that time we've already addressed the Oline, RB, TE, WR positions and we can draft a person coming in with veteran weapons to depend on. 

 

My goodness it shouldnt be this hard to understand! lol. 

 

[fltflo]

Again, what does this all matter without a franchise QB on the roster. An as much as many of you believe we need to give the two kids a chance, one already got one and the other was and absolute reach.

You also have to know we are never going to get the number one pick next year,so give up that pipe dream. Also there is no way in hell, with there jobs hanging in the balance, this staff or any other for that matter, would let there team tank the season.

So you take the best available QB this year, trading down down if possible to get him.

You also don't take a QB who has only 11 college starts either.

You take the QB that has been the most consistent winner over both his Jr and Sr years in school. One who has taken his team to two national championship games won one and thru a force of will almost won another.

 

 

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[SickJetFan]

10 minutes ago, Villain The Foe said:

I 100% agree with you. This is why my mock looked like this. 

 

I really like Nathan Peterman and Patrick Mahomes, but we need to stop wasting picks, and going high for Mahomes will probably end up wasting 2 picks, 1 in Hack and the other being Mahomes because we have nothing around them. This is also why I am diametrically opposed to going defense in the 1st round. I dont care about this being a defense-heavy draft. That just simply means that we need to go offense early if we're looking to get top offensive talent. Going defense in the 1st round for the 9th year in a row is only going to irritate me as well as not attempting to secure top rookie talent to support the QB's we're trying to evaluate. 

In my mock I have McCaffery in the 1st given that he's versatile and can create matchup problems given his ability to run routes and catch. I have us drafting 3 offensive linemen in Garret Bowles, Jon Toth and Ethan Cooper, and the imo the best blocking TE coming out this year in George Kittle. 

Hackenberg will have support on the offensive line, an immediate upgrade at TE that can block and is sneaky good in the pass game and a versatile RB that can put strain on any base defense given that if you put him out wide you basically have a LB covering him which is a win for the offense and in the running game he has great vision and patience. Even threw in a project WR in the 7th to learn behind the current young guys for more depth. 

Providing Hackenberg or even Petty with help on the oline and in the running game will be the only way possible to evaluate them, or any QB for that matter. If Hack doesnt show promise then we'll more than likely be picking in the top 20 next season given that we most likely wont be making the playoffs and THEN we can go for that QB. By that time we've already addressed the Oline, RB, TE, WR positions and we can draft a person coming in with veteran weapons to depend on. 

 

My goodness it shouldnt be this hard to understand! lol. 

 

Hypothetical

Take 2 teams

1st Team has the Number 1 defense in the league and a average offense across board and no QB

2nd Team has the Number 30 defense in the league and a average offense across board and no QB

in hypothetical both teams draft Tom Brady (before he had any success mind you)

what would happen?

My guess is noone would ever know his name if 2nd team drafts him

[Tinstar]

1 hour ago, Integrity28 said:

I'd keep Decker in the slot. He runs the best routes and creates a ton of mismatches. Rookie RBs can't always pass protect, which will defeat the purpose of helping the QB.

He's not going to be a running back on this team in 2017 .  The Jets are stuck with Powell and Forte' in 2017, so McCaffrey will primary be a returner and slot receiver. There's no Brandon Marshall this year, so like it or not, Eric Decker is the lead receiver  .  His days in the slot are done and after this year, probably so will he . .

[Lil Woody]

2 minutes ago, fltflo said:

You take the QB that has been the most consistent winner over both his Jr and Sr years in school. One who has taken his team to two national championship games won one and thru a force of will almost won another.

What do you think the Mets will ask for in terms of compensation for him?

[Villain The Foe]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

The Jets resigned Winters, tendered Johnson, picked up Beachum, still have Carpenter and i think they like Shell, Dozier and Ijalana. 

I'm just not sure OL is going to be a priority in this draft.  If they do, I think they stick with the trend of not going OL to the 5th round the earliest.

Since I doubt we're going to QB and giving Hack and Petty a shot, I 100% agree we should give them a shiny new weapon.  Howard, Williams or Davis are quickly becoming my preference tonight. 

Based on the fact that the Jets did exactly what you said above, I can def see your point. However, Dozier has been with this team for years and has not been able to find his way into a starting role during a time when this offensive line was crumbling. That's an indictment on him. Ijalana hasnt done anything in my eyes this past season to change my opinion of him before going into last season, which was him being just a JAG. He can be replaced. Kelvin Beachum's contract was terrible, and that's on Macc, but outside of that this is a guy who wouldnt stick with the Jags and they had massive Oline problems last season. So the Beachum signing shouldnt sway the Jets from drafting a Tackle imo. It's better to draft and Beachum works out then you have two guys, rather than not and Beachum sucks and now Hackenberg is looking like he's playing behind the Penn St. Oline again. 

Shell impressed in his limited role, but it was a limited role. Carpenter is our best Olineman by far, but he's 28 years old and we can really maximize him by putting talent around him. If not we're only going to squander him by putting him around a bunch of nobody's. These are the same guys that I seen on the field, 4 or 5 guys all trying to block one defender while Petty is in the backfield getting utterly decapitated. Wesly Johnson was ok, but nothing that makes me feel like we cant get a replacement. 

 

I like the fact that they've shown ability to stay on the team, but none of those guys proved that they deserve to be unquestioned starters. IMO Winters and Carpenter are the only starters on this Oline without question. The rest of those guys need to earn that. 

[Lil Woody]

1 minute ago, Tinstar said:

He's not going to be a running back on this team in 2017 .  The Jets are stuck with Powell and Forte' in 2017, so McCaffrey will primary be a returner and slot receiver. There's no Brandon Marshall this year, so like it or not, Eric Decker is the lead receiver  .  His days in the slot are done and after this year, probably so will he . .

Possible.  But why not roll with what works for him. Allow Enunwa to take over Marshall/s role. Put Enunwa and Decker in 2 WR sets and push Decker to the slot in 3 WR sets with Robbie Anderson on the outside...(or Mike Williams/Corey Davis) perhaps.  And if there is a good TE to throw to....all the better.  If it looks good, why not consider continuing that for 2018 QB as well. Hell maybe Morton blows everyone away and keeps the OC job when the Jets hire yet another DC to be our next HC.

[slats]

2 hours ago, Integrity28 said:

We have a sh*t roster, take the best ******* players you are fortunate to have fall to you. Period.

The ONLY position group that doesn't need to be picked is DL. Otherwise, bring the talent ... all of it.

Don't reach on OL in a draft that is weak on the position just to stick to a "plan". The plan is, the Jets are a bottom-3 team. Get as many good players as you can. Doesn't matter where they line up, frankly.

 

Seems pretty simple to me. Outside of the DL, there's not a position group on this team that isn't in need of help. BAP, weighted by positional value, is the way I'd hope they go. So rather than the RB or Safety, I'd reach a little for the best pass rusher or the WR that helped make the QB I have serious reservations about look so good (Williams). 

Lots of depth in the secondary of this draft, so take a couple. It's a weak OL draft, so the higher rated guys will almost all be overdrafted due to their scarcity. Same with the QBs. I'd prefer they double up on pass rushers than reach for a weaker position group. 

25 minutes ago, Maxman said:

Howard makes a ton of sense when you look at need and helping out a young QB.

TE just doesn't have the positional value making it worthy of a #6 overall. Unless you think he's Gronkowski, but healthier. 

[Villain The Foe]

14 minutes ago, SickJetFan said:

Hypothetical

Take 2 teams

1st Team has the Number 1 defense in the league and a average offense across board and no QB

2nd Team has the Number 30 defense in the league and a average offense across board and no QB

in hypothetical both teams draft Tom Brady (before he had any success mind you)

what would happen?

My guess is noone would ever know his name if 2nd team drafts him

You can throw sanchez into that equation. 

Sanchez was drafted and the Jets had the #1 defense in the league. This dude in a 2 season span ties Namath for the most playoff wins by a Jets QB. 

 

Same guy cant get a starting job in the league today. You have a point. However, Tom Brady developed into an actual QB. Sanchez didnt. Look at a guy like Drew Brees. Could you imagine if the Saints had a top 15 defense, not even top 5? Brees would have atleast 2 or 3 more championships. Having the worst defense in the league means you dont even make the playoffs. With that said though, Drew Brees is still Drew Brees. 

 

Similar situation with Rivers. People call Rivers a stats-padder. I see it more as him being a victim of bad situational coaching and a leaky defense. Rivers is still a good QB though. So, the #2 team could draft Tom Brady and not be successful, but that doesnt mean that Tom Brady ultimately sucked. It's a team sport. As a team, the #2 team isnt balanced. Atleast the #1 team could keep teams from scoring. 

 

You can have the #1 team and win with Brock Osweiler, or you can have the #2 team and lose with Drew Brees. Osweiler is terrible yet Drew Brees is a legend.