The Crusher Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 11 minutes ago, SenorGato said: He’ll be playing football again. Beyond being the first CB to pass on single handedly taking down the 250 pound RB, what was so bad about his performance in that game? The flukiest possible deflected pass turned TD? I get the Jets fan mentality there - look for someone to blame rather than crediting the performer who scored for a one in a million play - but a reasonal person isn’t pretending that happened because Revis is so toast as a CB. Revis weighs about 245 now. Whats the big deal? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Just now, The Crusher said: Revis weighs about 245 now. Whats the big deal? I’d put him at a solid 210-215 this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 1 minute ago, SenorGato said: I’d put him at a solid 210-215 this year. and at about 4.7 speed lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kleckineau Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 6 minutes ago, The Crusher said: Revis weighs about 245 now. Whats the big deal? Kilos? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 5 minutes ago, HessStation said: and at about 4.7 speed lol Lol prolly, I’ll have to wait for an official time from Clickhole or something similarly official. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 1 hour ago, detectivekimble said: Wrong. He was good in 2008. Great from 2009-2013. He was better in 2013 (PFF's #1 CB) than he was in 2014 with the Pats. He just wasn't playing for the Pats, so he didn't get the same attention. His decline started in 2014. He was still Pro Bowl caliber in 2015, but fell off the cliff in 2016. Are you sure it wasn't their 5 year ranking? It was in June 2013 prior to the 2013 season. https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/five-years-of-pff-grades-top-10-cornerbacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 22 minutes ago, SenorGato said: Lol prolly, I’ll have to wait for an official time from Clickhole or something similarly official. Btw PFF has Revis at a 37% comp rate in 2009 not 33%. Hehe Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 40 minutes ago, HessStation said: and at about 4.7 speed lol Yes in the opposite direction of the ball carrier. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 21 minutes ago, HessStation said: Btw PFF has Revis at a 37% comp rate in 2009 not 33%. Hehe Man...PFF AND an SBN poll AND Bleacher Report AND Ranker? Real legion of evidence here... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kleckineau Posted January 10, 2018 Author Share Posted January 10, 2018 23 minutes ago, SenorGato said: Man...PFF AND an SBN poll AND Bleacher Report AND Ranker? Real legion of evidence here... I know right?^ BTW checked that Clickhole its a riot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 25 minutes ago, SenorGato said: Man...PFF AND an SBN poll AND Bleacher Report AND Ranker? Real legion of evidence here... I love when things go full circle and the same people trying to elevate Revis denounce the same sources that helped create his greatness w inside data pts lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 11 minutes ago, HessStation said: I love when things go full circle and the same people trying to elevate Revis denounce the same sources that helped create his greatness w inside data pts lol Lol what are you going on about now? Where are my references to PFF or Bleacher Report or SBN polls or Ranker lists? And now “sources” like BR, a SBN poll, and Ranker were proclaiming - sorry, creating - his greatness with “inside data pts?” I thought he wasn’t #1 based on their inside data? Yeeeeeeaaah...FA and the draft can’t get here soon enough. sh*t this weekend’s games can’t happen soon enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 27 minutes ago, SenorGato said: Lol what are you going on about now? Where are my references to PFF or Bleacher Report or SBN polls or Ranker lists? And now “sources” like BR, a SBN poll, and Ranker were proclaiming - sorry, creating - his greatness with “inside data pts?” I thought he wasn’t #1 based on their inside data? Yeeeeeeaaah...FA and the draft can’t get here soon enough. sh*t this weekend’s games can’t happen soon enough. Revis' greatness is not in raw numbers the NFL and fans have used to judge players for almost a century, although those numbers are good. His greatness is shown in the deeper dive analysis that you've kept referring to this entire thread lol. And that analysis that comes from PFF and FO etc has only been around since 2007. His raw/conventional numbers INT/TD/Tackles etc are very good but not elite. The comp rates and yds comp% etc is what has separated him from the rest and has shown how elite he had been for a period of time. You're sh*tting on the same source in PFF, whom I'm not even personally considering end all. Although it is an excellent benchmark when analyzing a player's overall performance..it's far from perfect data. PFF loves Revis. but it has a data point that doesn't jive with you so it sucks lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Do you think PFF and FO are the same thing? Please stop trying to convince me of things I already smacked down. You’ve peaced out like 6 times already and declared yourself the winner two days ago anyway! Long after you convinced yourself that you weren’t trying to convince anyone! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 3 minutes ago, SenorGato said: Do you think PFF and FO are the same thing? Please stop trying to convince me of things I already smacked down. You’ve peaced out like 6 times already and declared yourself the winner two days ago anyway! Long after you convinced yourself that you weren’t trying to convince anyone! I've extended my victory dance. This is has been too easy and too much fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 And there is a big downside to both sites taking a lot of subjectivity into account. but FO sited 33% and PFF sited 37%....so FO is better lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 Just now, HessStation said: I've extended my victory dance. This is has been too easy and too much fun. Your victory dance involves so many more attempts at convincing me THO. sh*t now you’re also trying to convince me I used your sources! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 2011, in Revis' prime: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2012/best-cornerback-charting-stats-2011 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 10, 2018 Share Posted January 10, 2018 8 minutes ago, Matt39 said: 2011, in Revis' prime: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2012/best-cornerback-charting-stats-2011 The comment: Quote Notice someone missing? When I ran the midseason update on game charting for cornerbacks, Darrelle Revis ranked first in the league in both yards per pass and Success Rate. Now that we have stats for the entire season, he ranks 16th in both stats. Now, that's still nicely above average, and given the variability in cornerback stats I noted just above, the drop shouldn't be seen as incontrovertible evidence that Darrelle Revis is no longer the best cornerback in the National Football League. I would still take him ahead of everyone else (unless I was absolutely wedded to playing a zone scheme; then I would probably take Samuel). Why did Revis fall so much in this final tally of cornerback charting stats? First of all, we were missing a lot of Jets charting when I ran that first batch of numbers in December, so Revis' numbers were based on a smaller sample size than those of other starting cornerbacks. The other reason for Revis' drop is that Revis himself apparently struggled a bit during the second half of the season. Check out his charting stats split into before and after the Jets' Week 8 bye: Player Charted Targets Yd/Pass Success Rate Avg. Pass Distance YAC Weeks 1-7 31 3.9 68% 16.5 1.7 Weeks 9-17 50 7.8 56% 11.3 3.8 This could be noise. It could be evidence that the knee injury that limited Revis in practice during the final two months of the season was a bigger deal than anyone realized. It could also be evidence that Revis has lost his place as the best cornerback in the league. Could be. I don't think it is In his next three full seasons he’d go 10, 1 (+ a SB ring), and 12 in their rankings. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detectivekimble Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 3 hours ago, HessStation said: So Revis 2009 season wasn't "that" special considering it was in a different era than today? Bailey made 5 Pro Bowls and 3 All Pro teams during the same time that Revis played and all the way up until 2012. Revis' last great year was 2011 with an anamoly of a very good year in 2014. So even counting up to 2014, that's two years difference from 2012. Don't make my head hurt. Revis was great from 2009-2013 and pro bowl caliber in 2008, 2014 and 2015. And the point is that you're not seeing anymore good old CBs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detectivekimble Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 2 hours ago, HessStation said: Are you sure it wasn't their 5 year ranking? It was in June 2013 prior to the 2013 season. https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/five-years-of-pff-grades-top-10-cornerbacks No, Revis and Grimes were their best CBs. And that's Revis coming off of a serious injury. The chinks in the armor started to show in 2014, for whatever reason. https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/2013-pff-all-pro-team Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detectivekimble Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 48 minutes ago, Matt39 said: 2011, in Revis' prime: http://www.footballoutsiders.com/stat-analysis/2012/best-cornerback-charting-stats-2011 Keep trying. NFL teams actually use PFF, not football outsiders. PFF had Revis ranked as the #1 CB in 2011. Magnificent as Justin Smith has been all year, with nearly half the season gone there was really only one winner because at that point Revis had allowed only 10 receptions and had knocked down or intercepted as many passes as he given up. If that extrapolated to the entire year it would almost certainly be the best year anyone had had in the history of the NFL. Well, as we know things didn’t quite turn out that way but that shouldn’t diminish what is still an unbelievably good year for him. In the end quarterbacks throwing into his coverage netted a 45.6 rating; tops among all corners and his 15.6 Coverage Snaps per Reception ranked seventh behind players who never tracked the opposition’s top receiver or played the slot. In addition don’t forget that Revis isn’t just a coverage guy in the mold of Deion Sanders; if the run is coming his way he’s going to do everything he can to bring down the ball carrier and as a result ranked fourth as a run defender among corners. Throw in the fact that despite his style of play he was only flagged three times and you understand why he was our second choice defender. https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/2011-pff-defensive-player-of-the-year Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Just now, detectivekimble said: Keep trying. NFL teams actually use PFF, not football outsiders. Oh, ok. Disregard my post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, detectivekimble said: Keep trying. NFL teams actually use PFF, not football outsiders. I doubt this is true but both sites love Revis, as they should. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detectivekimble Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 2 minutes ago, SenorGato said: I doubt this is true but both sites love Revis, as they should. Child, please. But what the public sees on Pro Football Focus’s website is just a tidal pool compared to the ocean of information that NFL teams are paying very good money (PFF won’t disclose how much) to access. https://www.si.com/2015/01/25/pro-football-focus-nfl-neil-hornsby-cris-collinsworth-analytics Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Just now, detectivekimble said: Child, please. But what the public sees on Pro Football Focus’s website is just a tidal pool compared to the ocean of information that NFL teams are paying very good money (PFF won’t disclose how much) to access. https://www.si.com/2015/01/25/pro-football-focus-nfl-neil-hornsby-cris-collinsworth-analytics This is proof that they don’t use Football Outsiders? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
detectivekimble Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 1 minute ago, SenorGato said: This is proof that they don’t use Football Outsiders? They don't. Can you show proof otherwise? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt39 Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 4 minutes ago, detectivekimble said: Child, please. But what the public sees on Pro Football Focus’s website is just a tidal pool compared to the ocean of information that NFL teams are paying very good money (PFF won’t disclose how much) to access. https://www.si.com/2015/01/25/pro-football-focus-nfl-neil-hornsby-cris-collinsworth-analytics Yeah, it's pretty public that Schneider has been tied to FO for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointman Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 4 hours ago, HessStation said: Pointman, should teammate endorsements be taken seriously? Especially when it's Brandon Marshall? Marshall: Eli has yet to dethrone Fitz in my QB rankings Giants wide receiver Brandon Marshall is either a master of deadpan humor, a massive fan of former Jets quarterback Ryan Fitzpatrick or is still interested in slighting Jake Plummer, Jay Cutler, Kyle Orton, Chad Henne and Matt Moore. When asked on Monday if Eli Manning was the best quarterback he'd ever played with, Marshall told reporters: "He has a long way to go to dethrone Ryan Fitzpatrick, you know? He has a long way to go. So we'll see. We'll see." By my count (video here) the statement was followed by about four seconds straight of Marshall smiling. In a way, it felt like he was waiting for people to laugh. The best part about this comment from Marshall was how all over the place interpretations were. We have all failed. hopes to have a future in the television business and while his friendship and defense of Ryan Fitzpatrick is well-noted, Marshall is well-aware that, for the first time, he's playing with a quarterback who has a legitimate chance of making it into the Hall of Fame. Also, how short are our collective memories? Back in March upon signing with the Giants, Marshall unequivocally said that Manning was the best quarterback he's ever been on the same team with. "Not probably. He is," Marshall said, via the Giants' official site. "I've played with some great quarterbacks. Ryan Fitzpatrick is probably one of my favorite quarterbacks that I've played with. I see a lot of similarities there. I don't think people realize how hard Eli works in the film room and in the classroom, and how he's an amazing leader. Obviously, we know about his physical ability. What's not reported is how hard he works off the field. With Ryan Fitzpatrick, I'm used to that type of approach, where they're leaders and they also push you in the classroom. So being able to play with a guy who's a two-time Super Bowl champion and has done some amazing things in this league for a long time, he's a warrior, and I'm looking forward to following him." This was probably Marshall's way of propping up a good friend while maintaining the deference that all veterans must show to Manning in the Giants' locker room. If I'm wrong, Marshall will probably re-work his rankings at some point over the course of this season. Brandon Marshall says Kyle Orton is the best QB he's played with https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/brandon-marshall-says-kyle-orton-is-the-best-qb-hes-played-with/ Whats wrong with what he said? Marshall saw Eli sucked. And the poster I responded to, asked for any player etc. So I gave him what he asked for so he could get off his high horse. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointman Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 4 hours ago, Kleckineau said: Lol Brandon Marshall. Same guy who pumped Ryan Fitz. Surely you are not serious. Ladies and gentleman. I offer you our expert witness.......... http://www.nj.com/jets/index.ssf/2016/10/brandon_marshall_on_ryan_fitzpatrick_benching_boat.html lol guy wanted any source. I gave him one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SenorGato Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 14 minutes ago, detectivekimble said: They don't. Based on an article that doesn’t mention FO? That doesn’t make sense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 15 minutes ago, pointman said: Whats wrong with what he said? Marshall saw Eli sucked. And the poster I responded to, asked for any player etc. So I gave him what he asked for so he could get off his high horse. Lol he's basically just complimenting his current teammates that they're all the best. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pointman Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 1 minute ago, HessStation said: Lol he's basically just complimenting his current teammates that they're all the best. Doesn't matter to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Crusher Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Brandon Marshall sees dead people . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HessStation Posted January 11, 2018 Share Posted January 11, 2018 Per PFF, Top ranked CB per year: 2008: Antoine Winfield 2009: Charles Woodson 2010: Antoine Winfield 2011: Darrelle Revis 2012: Antoine Winfield So 2008-2012 Antoine Winfield seemed to be the best CB in football? https://www.profootballfocus.com/news/page-of-fame-cornerbacks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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