Bowles and McCagnan have been at odds for years.

[Miss Lonelyhearts]

7 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Cool! Who else?

Todd Bowles is no angel.

[dbatesman]

9 minutes ago, Pac said:

Marcus Maye.

Yikes—swing and a miss, Todd! Who else?

[JustInFudge]

44 minutes ago, Bleedin Green said:

You said they should have won 3 more games.  They have actually won 3.  You are therefore suggesting they should have won 6.  6 is double 3.

Can we just agree that they all suck, without exception?

I said maybe possibly but yes, we can.

[JustInFudge]

33 minutes ago, TeddEY said:

I think I made my point about talent over the years sufficiently, no reason to argue for the sake of arguing.

Youre saying these teams are crap - I’m saying so are ours.

And when 2 bad teams get together, it’s the universe that decides the winner! 

[Creepy Lurker]

1 hour ago, Rexorcism said:

IMO, rosterwise the Jets are an average team, average on offense, average on defense. This upcoming season is and was supposed to be Macc’s big opportunity to upgrade our roster into an above average top tier team. Did you expect a team in our position to be any more than that? I think alot of you fans live in fantasy football lala land. Macc has this roster right where I thought he did. Bowles is getting worse game by game and the players are losing confidence in him.

Well I completely disagree. The defense is above average at least but the offense is WAYYY below average. I am realistic with my expectations and Mac has been atrocious. We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one. 

[Pac]

22 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Yikes—swing and a miss, Todd! Who else?

Kacy Rogers the second.

I can do this all night, chief.

[dbatesman]

26 minutes ago, Pac said:

Kacy Rogers the second.

I can do this all night, chief.

Woof. This Todd Bowles has a lot to answer for! Let’s shift gears. Who requested Jamal Adams?

[Pac]

53 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Woof. This Todd Bowles has a lot to answer for! Let’s shift gears. Who requested Jamal Adams?

A little guy named logic.

[dbatesman]

6 minutes ago, Pac said:

A little guy named logic.

Oh man, hoist by my own petard! What about the guys our own li’l Executive of the Year is responsible for?

[Rexorcism]

Well I completely disagree. The defense is above average at least but the offense is WAYYY below average. I am realistic with my expectations and Mac has been atrocious. We’ll have to agree to disagree on this one. 

Thats fine, but remember back to the Lions and Broncos games and imagine if our coaching staff could have them prepared to play like that every week. Thats what a well coached team would look like. In those games we looked like a talented team across the board.

[Pac]

39 minutes ago, dbatesman said:

Oh man, hoist by my own petard! What about the guys our own li’l Executive of the Year is responsible for?

Hack & Herndon

[dbatesman]

22 minutes ago, Pac said:

Hack & Herndon

Oh wow. Sign me up for three more years of that!

[Creepy Lurker]

7 hours ago, Rexorcism said:

Thats fine, but remember back to the Lions and Broncos games and imagine if our coaching staff could have them prepared to play like that every week. Thats what a well coached team would look like. In those games we looked like a talented team across the board.

Lions and Broncos didn’t show up. That’s not a typical game at all. They were both asleep when they played us. 

[Rexorcism]

Lions and Broncos didn’t show up. That’s not a typical game at all. They were both asleep when they played us. 

Ok, gotcha. Thats an easy out for you to use. You’re the expert. So we didnt play well at all on those days, it was them who played completely bad.

I’m done, see ya

[UntouchableCrew]

14 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

Once again, this entire premise is dependent on the assumption that all poor outcomes are strictly the fault of the coaching, while all positive ones had absolutely no influence by coaching at all.  Don't get me wrong, Bowles is a horrible coach.  That still doesn't change the fact, verses the Titans, that a few slightly differently calls by even a vastly superior coach could have easily wiped their only TD of the game, and multiple FGs, off the board, which is all that gave them a lead to lose in the first place.  Pick 6s, blocked punts, and long returns are not exactly common occurrences.  So in a situation like that, the entire basis of the supposed talent level being equivalent is dependent on the Jets happening to have a few statistical outliers all bunched together in a single game.

Forget the specifics of the game. It's not about that. Replacing one of the worst head coaches in the NFL with a "very good head coach" ultimately improves the team and raises the boat. Even if we were not lucky enough to get the pick six or good special teams play the "very good coach" has the offense scoring points. Some don't believe it but I have no doubt a good offensive coach would have this team scoring at a respectable clip. Now maybe you're right that the assumption that they're close enough in talent is off base but I've seen first hand the massive impact a change to offensive coaching can make. I think this pitiful offense has more potential that people realize, despite it's deficiencies. 

14 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

 Your attempt to qualify identifying such holes in the logic as "too literal" is rather curious, considering your entire argument is dependent on the score of a single game being at all close as a reliable indicator that the teams have a comparable talent level.  Following that type of logic would of course ultimately suggest that the Jets have vastly superior talents to the Lions and Broncos, while an immeasurably small fraction of the talent of the Bills, a series of arguments that I wouldn't expect to be coming.

This is fair -- I'm definitely cherry picking -- although I'd argue those games were all very fluky in the nature of their lopsided scores and I doubt any fans would expect a 2nd matchup with them to be similarly lopsided. I mean, the Lions game (I'd argue our talent is similar to that of the Lions) was 17-17 in the third quarter before we scored three huge TDs in a five minute span and things snowballed from there. And yes, Todd Bowles and Jeremy Bates deserve credit for the things that went right in those games. Matt Patricia and Vance Joseph were out-coached (similar to Bowles, they suck) while Sean McDermott obviously coached circles around Bowles in the Bills game.

14 hours ago, Bleedin Green said:

Bottom line, if the assumption is that every single successful play has all just been in spite of Bowles, there's absolutely no reason to not similarly assume that every single successful player has been in spite of Maccagnan.

Who is arguing this? Bowles and Maccagan, while both generally being terrible, deserve credit for their good decisions and moments. There have just been far too few of them and people believe that if both were replaced we'd have more "wins" and fewer "losses" both figuratively and literally.

Don't interpret my "we would have more wins and still be alive in the playoff hunt with a better coach" as some kind of defense of Mike Maccagnan. He still sucks. We are still a bottom 10 team in talent. 

And I could also see a scenario where with a much better GM Bowles would have this team alive. I mean, he wasn't the coaching anti-christ in 2015 beating the Pats and sitting at 10-5 entering the last week of the season with a journeyman QB.

[Anthony Jet]

23 hours ago, Rexorcism said:

Macc got us our franchise QB, he gets a pass. Bowles goes

I know nothing of college football until I read about prospects onthis board, so In no way am I saying who we should’ve picked but if he was above avg at his job he would’ve found us our franchise QB a year earlier with out giving up any additional picks

[Jetster]

1 hour ago, Anthony Jet said:

I know nothing of college football until I read about prospects onthis board, so In no way am I saying who we should’ve picked but if he was above avg at his job he would’ve found us our franchise QB a year earlier with out giving up any additional picks

After the Fitz debacle many, many Jet fans on this board said keep picking them until you find one & just in that scenario either Watson or Mahomes should have been a NY Jet & we would have still had our 3 second rounders. When the fans know better than the GM you've got a huge problem. No different than the Jet fans wanting Marino (we were right, Jets were wrong), Jet fans chanting for Sapp (we were right, the Jets were wrong) and the huge contingency of fans that mocked the Hackenberg pick (many fans who follow college football) were right AGAIN! That classic clip of that Jet fan, notes in hand at the draft after we took Kenny Obrien saying, "I thought in would be Marino there, I guess the Jets know something we don't", is a microcosm of Jet fans literally knowing more about players & the draft then the people the Jets hire & pay to make these decisions. Very disheartening.

[Creepy Lurker]

6 hours ago, Rexorcism said:

 

Ok, gotcha. Thats an easy out for you to use. You’re the expert. So we didnt play well at all on those days, it was them who played completely bad.

I’m done, see ya

 

It’s just an out. The was the consensus opinion. If you think we could rush 300 yards regularly or have a ton of turnovers like in the Lions game, you are out of your mind.

That’s not sustainable football. It’s grest when that happens but it’s not something that you bank on. I’m done too. Believe what you want. 

[playtowinthegame]

13 minutes ago, Creepy Lurker said:

It’s just an out. The was the consensus opinion. If you think we could rush 300 yards regularly or have a ton of turnovers like in the Lions game, you are out of your mind.

That’s not sustainable football. It’s grest when that happens but it’s not something that you bank on. I’m done too. Believe what you want. 

Mac's lapdogs are all bark and no bite.

[Rexorcism]

It’s just an out. The was the consensus opinion. If you think we could rush 300 yards regularly or have a ton of turnovers like in the Lions game, you are out of your mind.
That’s not sustainable football. It’s grest when that happens but it’s not something that you bank on. I’m done too. Believe what you want. 

Stop putting words in my mouth, I never said we could or should rush for 300 yards every game or always come up with alot of turnovers. Those are just the things that can fall into place when a team is well coached and playing at its optimum level.
I played organized football my whole life and if you have played the game, you know when a team is playing well and is well prepared like the Jets did in those games.
They’re flying around playing at high speed not having to think, just reacting, theyre in position to make plays, noone is making mental errrors especially in coverage, the Oline is firing out strong, making crisp blocks and protecting the QB well and the receivers are not dropping alot of balls.
Its a team playing consistent at all positions. It doesn’t mean you are the most talented team it means you are well coached and inspired and playing at your best. When a team plays at their or close to their collective highest level consistently for a full 60 minutes, thats a well coached football team.
Now if you can’t understand that thats what I meant by them being well coached then I cant help you because you are just a reactionary fan boy who doesnt know the game.

[Rexorcism]

I know nothing of college football until I read about prospects onthis board, so In no way am I saying who we should’ve picked but if he was above avg at his job he would’ve found us our franchise QB a year earlier with out giving up any additional picks

You may be right, hard to argue the Hack pick. I just love the way he played his cards and got us Darnold and I happen to like our young nucleus of players right now. I think with just a few more of the right big names added to this group we can become a strong franchise. Lets be real, though, bone of us know for sure about personnel, we’re all in the same boat trying to project how good all these young players are or can be. Until a real coach comes along that can inspire them we won’t know for sure what we have.

[Creepy Lurker]

7 minutes ago, Rexorcism said:

Stop putting words in my mouth, I never said we could or should rush for 300 yards every game or always come up with alot of turnovers. Those are just the things that can fall into place when a team is well coached and playing at its optimum level.
I played organized football my whole life and if you have played the game, you know when a team is playing well and is well prepared like the Jets did in those games.
They’re flying around playing at high speed not having to think, just reacting, theyre in position to make plays, noone is making mental errrors especially in coverage, the Oline is firing out strong, making crisp blocks and protecting the QB well and the receivers are not dropping alot of balls.
Its a team playing consistent at all positions. It doesn’t mean you are the most talented team it means you are well coached and inspired and playing at your best. When a team plays at their or close to their collective highest level consistently for a full 60 minutes, thats a well coached football team.
Now if you can’t understand that thats what I meant by them being well coached then I cant help you because you are just a reactionary fan boy who doesnt know the game.

I agree that they were at least more prepared than what we’ve seen in many of their terrible losses this year. Those 2 games specifically seemed to be more of s product of the other teams not being prepared or traveling well.

That’s all I’m trying to say. Those aren’t good/sustainable examples at all. I don’t think you understand “the game” despite clearly following it closely and having experience playing it. 

 

[Rexorcism]

I agree that they were at least more prepared than what we’ve seen in many of their terrible losses this year. Those 2 games specifically seemed to be more of s product of the other teams not being prepared or traveling well.
That’s all I’m trying to say. Those aren’t good/sustainable examples at all. I don’t think you understand “the game” despite clearly following it closely and having experience playing it. 
 

No problem we can agree to disagree. I prefer a bit of continuity at the GM position and you’d like to get rid of him. None of us knows for sure its all conjecture anyway. At least we all want the same thing, a winning Jet team to get us excited about football again. God Bless

[Ohio State NY Jets fan]

2 hours ago, Jetster said:

After the Fitz debacle many, many Jet fans on this board said keep picking them until you find one & just in that scenario either Watson or Mahomes should have been a NY Jet & we would have still had our 3 second rounders. When the fans know better than the GM you've got a huge problem. No different than the Jet fans wanting Marino (we were right, Jets were wrong), Jet fans chanting for Sapp (we were right, the Jets were wrong) and the huge contingency of fans that mocked the Hackenberg pick (many fans who follow college football) were right AGAIN! That classic clip of that Jet fan, notes in hand at the draft after we took Kenny Obrien saying, "I thought in would be Marino there, I guess the Jets know something we don't", is a microcosm of Jet fans literally knowing more about players & the draft then the people the Jets hire & pay to make these decisions. Very disheartening.

If you look at the last decade, maybe more, a Jets fan "crowdsourced" decision would have been at least as good if not better on almost every draft pick - even following Mel's "best available" would have been an upgrade

 

[Creepy Lurker]

4 minutes ago, Rexorcism said:

No problem we can agree to disagree. I prefer a bit of continuity at the GM position and you’d like to get rid of him. None of us knows for sure its all conjecture anyway. At least we all want the same thing, a winning Jet team to get us excited about football again. God Bless

100%. That’s the beauty of conversations like this. How else can you open your mind if you don’t converse about conflicting views and hear the other side out? 

I too, long for winning Jets football or at least a situation where the arrow is pointing up and a reason for optimism. I thought we had that with Sam but here we are. We as fans “live for next season” anyways. Oh well. 

[themeangreenkillingmachine]

I see the problem here. It's an identity problem, which starts at the top. Who is in charge of this team? Woody Johnson is in London and has given his duties to his bro Chris, but has Chris ever made a decision since being here? Is he allowed to? I dont think Chris has any power. He's just here to babysit. 

The article mentions that both bowles and Mac report to their boss, but who is their boss? 

 

The owner of this team cant make any decisions, hence why he hired Charlie Casserly to do his job for him and hire a GM and Coach. 

 

Woody has to find 1 guy. 1 guy who can coach the team and be the General Manager as well. leave it to a guy like Mac to do all the financials with contracts, but don't let him select the players. The coach is the one who schemes everything, they're the one who knows which player is going to fit in their system. Most coaches have played the game and have been on the field for most of their lives. Too many of the GM's have sat behind a desk crunching numbers. They go by numbers, they don't see talent the way that coaches do up close. 

 

Lets just hope Woody finds the right guy, and then he can stay the **** away from this team

[playtowinthegame]

33 minutes ago, Rexorcism said:

I prefer a bit of continuity at the GM position

 

35 minutes ago, Rexorcism said:

At least we all want the same thing, a winning Jet team to get us excited about football again.

 

5-11

5-11

3-9 and headed for 3-13

You want to keep the Jets GM who built this pile of sh*t, yet you want a winning Jets team. God bless you. 

[Rexorcism]

I see you're one of those internet warrior's behind that keyboard. I've never had anyone in my life talk to my face like you. God bless you, Mac lapdog.

Still waiting

[playtowinthegame]

26 minutes ago, Rexorcism said:

No that would be you turning a Jet discussion not involving you into questioning my manhood while hiding behind your keyboard. I’ll meet up anytime big boy. Name the time and place and I assure you I will shut u up.

Name the time and place. You got to be kidding me. Now you're making yourself look  like a rabid Mac lapdog. Bottom line you are the one threatening me on a message board. I never do that on message boards or from behind my keyboard anywhere. Have a nice day. 

[playtowinthegame]

17 minutes ago, Rexorcism said:

You’re all huffy and bothered over a Jet discussion. Grow up ya little pussy

You're acting like a manchild and telling me to grow up. That's rich of you.

[Rexorcism]

Name the time and place. You got to be kidding me. Now you're making yourself look  like a rabid Mac lapdog. Bottom line you are the one threatening me on a message board. I never do that on message boards or from behind my keyboard. Have a nice day. 

Hahaha, Thats the pot calling the kettle black. You wanted to run your mouth. Its funny to see you back pedal, an All Bark No Bite little wimp.

[playtowinthegame]

3 minutes ago, Rexorcism said:

Hahaha, Thats the pot calling the kettle black. You wanted to run your mouth. Its funny to see you back pedal, an All Bark No Bite little wimp.

How am I backpedaling? 

[Pac]

A good place for you 2 to fight is in front of TomShanes studio apt...  you can use the empty beer bottles as weapons and the dominoes pizza boxes as shields.

[Rexorcism]

A good place for you 2 to fight is in front of TomShanes studio apt...  you can use the empty beer bottles and dominoes pizza boxes as weapons.

It wouldnt even be a fight, hes exactly what his snarky little line says , all bark no bite

[playtowinthegame]

1 minute ago, Rexorcism said:

It wouldnt even be a fight, hes exactly what his snarky little line says , all bark no bite

Look in the mirror pussy. That's you. A little scared manchild acting all tough on a Jets message board.  I'm not going to say anything more, because I don't want to break the rules and get banned. Have a good one, Mac lapdog. Attaboy!