Christopher Johnson vs Woody Johnson

[Jetsfan80]

10 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

I think you missed my point. 

I don't want to settle for mediocrity but someone mentioned that they’ve recently been to a SB. Owned by a guy who owns The Home Depot—not a football guy.  

The owner doesn't have to be a football guy.  No one is demanding that the owner be a football guy.  But he has to be able to pick good people to run the football operations.  That's what we're talking about.  Woody has hired Terry Bradway, Mike Tannenbaum, John Idzik, and Mike Maccagnan.  That's on him, no one else. 

[Peace Frog]

40 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

How does a team get the franchise QB?  Describe that process for me please. 

Seems to me that you think that's a very random process, even though there have been several franchises that have had multiple franchise QB's while we've had zero. 

The 49ers had Joe Montana and Steve Young.  The Packers went from Brett Favre to Aaron Rodgers.  The Colts had Peyton Manning and Andrew Luck (they also drafted John Elway in '83).  The Cowboys went from Tony Romo to Dak Prescott.  Hell, even the Chargers went from Drew Brees to Phillip Rivers. 

How did they swing that?   Could it be....an organization running properly?

The Colts lucked into Peyton and Luck. And they had to TRADE Elway because they were such an awful franchise. 

The rest are complete anomalies of chance and design. 

You understand the front office guy for the Packers was OUR front office guy and tried to trade up for Favre. Actually had a trade agreed before it was pulled out from under us. 

Brees had a busted shoulder and the Chargers then went on to suck so bad in the best QB draft in history and HAD THE FIRST PICK OF THE DRAFT. They would have had either Eli OR Rivers. 

Montana was drafted by likely the best football mind in the history of football in Bill Walsh and Young was in the USFL. Besides, no one ever said the 49ers of that era was poorly run. Probably one of the best ever. 

I don’t think Dak is very good and was a function of his line and Romo was a great free agent pick up. 

I guess the Pats were strategic in drafting Brady with their THIRD pick in the 6th round. 

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, Peace Frog said:

The Colts lucked into Peyton and Luck. And they had to TRADE Elway because they were such an awful franchise. 

The rest are complete anomalies of chance and design. 

You understand the front office guy for the Packers was OUR front office guy and tried to trade up for Favre. Actually had a trade agreed before it was pulled out from under us. 

Brees had a busted shoulder and the Chargers then went on to suck so bad in the best QB draft in history and HAD THE FIRST PICK OF THE DRAFT. They would have had either Eli OR Rivers. 

Montana was drafted by likely the best football mind in the history of football in Bill Walsh and Young was in the USFL. Besides, no one ever said the 49ers of that era was poorly run. Probably one of the best ever. 

I don’t think Dak is very good and was a function of his line and Romo was a great free agent pick up. 

I guess the Pats were strategic in drafting Brady with their THIRD pick in the 6th round. 

 

So its pure luck.  Nothing else.

Wow.  No wonder you think Woody Johnson is a good owner.  He's just been unlucky for 20 years!  Everyone else gets the QB's but us!

EDIT:  I notice you did say the 49ers were "one of the best run" organizations ever.  Expand on that.  What made them different?  Why were they so well run? 

[Peace Frog]

3 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

The owner doesn't have to be a football guy.  No one is demanding that the owner be a football guy.  But he has to be able to pick good people to run the football operations.  That's what we're talking about.  Woody has hired Terry Bradway, Mike Tannenbaum, John Idzik, and Mike Maccagnan.  That's on him, no one else. 

I was told after 19 years of owning a $3 billion company they should have learned how to be football guys. 

Try to keep up. 

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, Peace Frog said:

I was told after 19 years of owning a $3 billion company they should have learned how to be football guys. 

Try to keep up. 

Not by me, so I don't care about that statement.  You don't have to be a football guy to hire a strong GM. 

[Peace Frog]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

 

So its pure luck.  Nothing else.

Wow.  No wonder you think Woody Johnson is a good owner.  He's just been unlucky for 20 years!  Everyone else gets the QB's but us!

I never said he was a good owner. 

Just not as bad as everyone is whining about. 

Getting the QB is the most important for sustained success. 

We have that now. Let’s all root for success. 

[Jetsfan80]

1 minute ago, Peace Frog said:

I never said he was a good owner. 

Just not as bad as everyone is whining about. 

Getting the QB is the most important for sustained success. 

We have that now. Let’s all root for success.  

Agreed.  Step 1 is firing Mike Maccagnan and hiring a smart football guy so we can build around Darnold properly.

[Peace Frog]

Just now, Jetsfan80 said:

Not by me, so I don't care about that statement.  You don't have to be a football guy to hire a strong GM. 

You’re taking my conversation with another poster and interjecting something I wasn’t discussing. 

I get it. You hate Mac.

We good?

 

[Jetsfan80]

2 minutes ago, Peace Frog said:

You’re taking my conversation with another poster and interjecting something I wasn’t discussing.

My bad I didn't realize this was in the Jets forum and not a PM. 

[Peace Frog]

21 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

My bad I didn't realize this was in the Jets forum and not a PM. 

You are asking me questions or applying inferences to me that are non-contextual to the point I was making.

You’re obsessed.  I get it.  You hate Mac and want him fired.

My advice to you is to get used to disappointment.  

He’s not getting fired. If this draft class works out and we go 9-7 or sniff the playoffs he’s getting an extension. 

Stop obsessing about it, it’ll eat at your soul.

Or continue to obsess.  

Don’t care.

 

[Fantasy Island]

Mac Sucks

[Fantasy Island]

18 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

You are asking me questions or applying inferences to me that are non-contextual to the point I was making.

You’re obsessed.  I get it.  You hate Mac and want him fired.

My advice to you is to get used to disappointment.  

He’s not getting fired. If this draft class works out and we go 9-7 or sniff the playoffs he’s getting an extension. 

Stop obsessing about it, it’ll eat at your soul.

Or continue to obsess.  

Don’t care.

 

Mac will be fired, its just a matter of time.

[NYJ1]

On 5/8/2019 at 5:59 PM, southparkcpa said:

Fair statement but "Woody did what to deserve credit?"   In my view, he lived off the fumes of a team built by Parcells.  The 2 AFC Champ seasons colors it well but we are well below 500, significantly below since 2011 (8 years).  I simply disagree. I have never heard anyone speak well of him. But as you fairly stated.. we don't know.

He purchased the NYJ and has built this franchise into being valued at almost triple what it was when he acquired them. He almost guaranteed his family a worst case scenario income of at least a quarter billion. If I could have done it I would have in a second. What he did to deserve credit is, HE PURCHASED NYJ. Spending  that kind of money is always a risk. I would have been scared to death.

You say his two AFC championships colors it well? Well, now maybe you can see why he held on to Rex for so long then? He thought (as did most of us) that Rex was the reason for the Jets great success albeit for a rather short duration. He thought he'd finally made a truly good hire. I can't blame him for that.

Prior to this 8 year sh*t show, he was all about keeping the best possible product on the field for the fans to enjoy. That's why he so desperately fought the god awful REBUILD word until he realized rebuilding was the only way. He didn't want to put the fans through that. 

I just don't understand why people can't see his heart is in the right place. Not you, but Is this some kind of illogical penis envy? When I see someone hit it big like Woody has, I'm always happy for that person. Fans around here act like making a profit is somehow evil? Like they're jealous of his money?

Right now I belong to the middle class. I love a comfortable life and it's just me. I'm fine with that. But if I somehow got very lucky and won the Powerball next week, will everyone on this site be jealous of me? Would they criticize what I buy with my money? Seems pretty stupid to me and certainly something you can't control.

[Apache 51]

 

[Peace Frog]

5 hours ago, Fantasy Island said:

Mac will be fired, its just a matter of time.

Can you be a little more specific?

Next few months?

15 years?

If we carp the bed, yes.

If we play competitive football and sniff the playoffs, if his FA moves and a goodly portion of his draft picks work out, well, you should get used to disappointment.  

[southparkcpa]

8 hours ago, NYJ1 said:

He purchased the NYJ and has built this franchise into being valued at almost triple what it was when he acquired them. He almost guaranteed his family a worst case scenario income of at least a quarter billion. If I could have done it I would have in a second. What he did to deserve credit is, HE PURCHASED NYJ. Spending  that kind of money is always a risk. I would have been scared to death.

You say his two AFC championships colors it well? Well, now maybe you can see why he held on to Rex for so long then? He thought (as did most of us) that Rex was the reason for the Jets great success albeit for a rather short duration. He thought he'd finally made a truly good hire. I can't blame him for that.

Prior to this 8 year sh*t show, he was all about keeping the best possible product on the field for the fans to enjoy. That's why he so desperately fought the god awful REBUILD word until he realized rebuilding was the only way. He didn't want to put the fans through that. 

I just don't understand why people can't see his heart is in the right place. Not you, but Is this some kind of illogical penis envy? When I see someone hit it big like Woody has, I'm always happy for that person. Fans around here act like making a profit is somehow evil? Like they're jealous of his money?

Right now I belong to the middle class. I love a comfortable life and it's just me. I'm fine with that. But if I somehow got very lucky and won the Powerball next week, will everyone on this site be jealous of me? Would they criticize what I buy with my money? Seems pretty stupid to me and certainly something you can't control.

I respect your passion but as a financial advisor I personally dont see that Woody is NOT in the bottom third of owners.  ALL teams values increased.  I see and hear you and respect your comments.   I don’t see that he did anything special that a fairly good business man would have done. We are what our record says we are and we haven’t been 500;since he took over. 

[NYJ1]

5 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

I respect your passion but as a financial advisor I personally dont see that Woody is NOT in the bottom third of owners.  ALL teams values increased.  I see and hear you and respect your comments.   I don’t see that he did anything special that a fairly good business man would have done. We are what our record says we are and we haven’t been 500;since he took over. 

Well, they've been under .500 specifically because of the last 8 years. Prior to that, their record was a positive one. It's really just a few really bad hires or executives with an agenda. It doesn't take long for a few bad seeds to spoil the punch.

[Fantasy Island]

9 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

Can you be a little more specific?

Next few months?

15 years?

If we carp the bed, yes.

If we play competitive football and sniff the playoffs, if his FA moves and a goodly portion of his draft picks work out, well, you should get used to disappointment.  

Mac should have been dismissed last year.  They will let his contract run out in 2020 so :

can save that dollar bill.

[Peace Frog]

8 hours ago, Fantasy Island said:

Mac should have been dismissed last year.  They will let his contract run out in 2020 so :

can save that dollar bill.

Whoa whoa who--you said he was getting "fired".  As if it was imminenet.  

Now you're saying they are just going to let his contract "run out".

So he's not getting fired.  

And if the Jets go 9-7 this year?  And Q and Polite are solid rookies? Bell lights it up.  Sam becomes a top 10 QB.  Gase is the offensive wizard we've been led to believe.  

Is he getting fired, are they letting his contract run out or is he getting an extension?

[Peace Frog]

15 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

I respect your passion but as a financial advisor I personally dont see that Woody is NOT in the bottom third of owners.  ALL teams values increased.  I see and hear you and respect your comments.   I don’t see that he did anything special that a fairly good business man would have done. We are what our record says we are and we haven’t been 500;since he took over. 

I am not nor have I ever said Woody/Chris are good owners.  But they aren't the worst and I don't think they are in the bottom third--maybe close but there are far worse owners.

Two somewhat (?) objective fairly recent articles have them at 17 and not in the bottom 10 (all I could find).  Not saying the articles are right (the one article has Shahid Khan at 12 and every other ranking of 5 or 10 worst has him scraping the bottom) but we cannot be objective in assessing our owners--I personally think the Wilpons are the worst owners in all of sports--but that's because I'm a Met fan.

https://sportsnaut.com/2018/08/power-ranking-all-32-nfl-owners-heading-into-2018-season/

https://thegruelingtruth.com/football/nfl/ten-worst-owners-nfl/

[southparkcpa]

1 hour ago, Peace Frog said:

I am not nor have I ever said Woody/Chris are good owners.  But they aren't the worst and I don't think they are in the bottom third--maybe close but there are far worse owners.

Two somewhat (?) objective fairly recent articles have them at 17 and not in the bottom 10 (all I could find).  Not saying the articles are right (the one article has Shahid Khan at 12 and every other ranking of 5 or 10 worst has him scraping the bottom) but we cannot be objective in assessing our owners--I personally think the Wilpons are the worst owners in all of sports--but that's because I'm a Met fan.

https://sportsnaut.com/2018/08/power-ranking-all-32-nfl-owners-heading-into-2018-season/

https://thegruelingtruth.com/football/nfl/ten-worst-owners-nfl/

Im not gonna read them...  I am becoming ambivalent to sports as it is a business of uber wealthy people buying all the teams.  From Clippers, to Mavericks, Woody etc.  We are simply a bottom 3rd team now and Woody has had the team for 20 years.  Have you ever met a fan from outside the NY area that truly respects the Jets?

[Peace Frog]

21 minutes ago, southparkcpa said:

Im not gonna read them...  I am becoming ambivalent to sports as it is a business of uber wealthy people buying all the teams.  From Clippers, to Mavericks, Woody etc.  We are simply a bottom 3rd team now and Woody has had the team for 20 years.  Have you ever met a fan from outside the NY area that truly respects the Jets?

You could say that about 20 different franchises. 

We, rather, some here, can’t be objective. 

Do you think anyone respects the Bucs, Lions, Jags, Raiders, Cards, Fins, Bills, Bengals outside their own cities? Some other crap teams with some recent success?

Cleveland? The Browns have been a laughingstock for decades. 

Now that they have the QB?

Almost instant respect.

If Sam becomes who we think he is we’re going to be respected around the league.

Go with it.  Feel the positivity. 

 

[NYJ1]

2 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

Have you ever met a fan from outside the NY area that truly respects the Jets?

That "REPUTATION" has as much, if not more to do with Leon Hess. Leon hired Kotite. Leon let the Jets play b*tch to the Giants and didn't get them a stadium. You're blaming Woody for all of Leons misdeeds. I don't think that's fair.

 

[Fantasy Island]

6 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

Whoa whoa who--you said he was getting "fired".  As if it was imminenet.  

Now you're saying they are just going to let his contract "run out".

So he's not getting fired.  

And if the Jets go 9-7 this year?  And Q and Polite are solid rookies? Bell lights it up.  Sam becomes a top 10 QB.  Gase is the offensive wizard we've been led to believe.  

Is he getting fired, are they letting his contract run out or is he getting an extension?

yes, same thing

[southparkcpa]

1 hour ago, NYJ1 said:

That "REPUTATION" has as much, if not more to do with Leon Hess. Leon hired Kotite. Leon let the Jets play b*tch to the Giants and didn't get them a stadium. You're blaming Woody for all of Leons misdeeds. I don't think that's fair.

 

Understood but after 20 years the results and facts don’t lie.    I simply don’t see that Woody has done anything that would tell me he is a difference maker.  he buys a team that was a halftime away from a SB.  

[southparkcpa]

4 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

You could say that about 20 different franchises. 

We, rather, some here, can’t be objective. 

Do you think anyone respects the Bucs, Lions, Jags, Raiders, Cards, Fins, Bills, Bengals outside their own cities? Some other crap teams with some recent success?

Cleveland? The Browns have been a laughingstock for decades. 

Now that they have the QB?

Almost instant respect.

If Sam becomes who we think he is we’re going to be respected around the league.

Go with it.  Feel the positivity. 

 

So you just named the bottom 10 teams .....  when you compare us to them yes, we are equals. 

[NYJ1]

1 hour ago, southparkcpa said:

Understood but after 20 years the results and facts don’t lie.    I simply don’t see that Woody has done anything that would tell me he is a difference maker.  he buys a team that was a halftime away from a SB.  

Well, if my memory serves me correctly wasn't the 2009 team 30 minutes away from a SB? Leon bought the Jets in 1963 and delivered a SB IN 1969. But from 1969 until 1998, a 29 year span, the Jets went to the AFC championship only once in 1982. So one SB and two AFC championships in 36 years of ownership, but Woody is still the bad guy? While he still has another 9 years (according to you) to deliver a SB?

[Peace Frog]

3 hours ago, Fantasy Island said:

yes, same thing

No. 

No it’s not. 

[Peace Frog]

2 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

So you just named the bottom 10 teams .....  when you compare us to them yes, we are equals. 

So you’re a self-loathing fan. 

I moved past that years ago. 

Let it go. 

[Peace Frog]

4 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

So you just named the bottom 10 teams .....  when you compare us to them yes, we are equals. 

Honest question. 

Why do you care whether the Jets are respected around the league?

Would your feelings about your team be elevated if we were more “respected”?

Do you dislike your team because of your perception that we’re not “respected”?

The Pats have won a dozen tainted  SBs and no one outside of New England respects that POS franchise. 

Is that what you crave? Respect from multitudes of people you will never meet, who have no impact on your life or enjoyment of your team?

Why does it matter what anyone else thinks of your team when it comes to your enjoyment of your team?

I’m getting the feeling we’re about to embark on a really good phase of Jet fandom. 

I don’t really give a sh*t about what other fanbases think about us. 

But that’s just me. 

[Peace Frog]

There are over 320,000 people in St Louis that don’t respect the Jets. 

St Louis doesn’t have an NFL team anymore.

Don’t really give a sh*t what people in St Louis think about the Jets. 

They lost their f*cking team. 

What’s more disrespected, having a middling NFL football team?

Or not having a team. 

Oakland is next.

Hey, San Diego, what do you think of our Jets?

Don’t respect us?

Don’t care.

You don’t have a team anymore.

 

[Jetsfan80]

So you’re a self-loathing fan. 
I moved past that years ago. 
Let it go. 

Honest question. 
Why do you care whether the Jets are respected around the league?
Would your feelings about your team be elevated if we were more “respected”?
Do you dislike your team because of your perception that we’re not “respected”?
The Pats have won a dozen tainted  SBs and no one outside of New England respects that POS franchise. 
Is that what you crave? Respect from multitudes of people you will never meet, who have no impact on your life or enjoyment of your team?
Why does it matter what anyone else thinks of your team when it comes to your enjoyment of your team?
I’m getting the feeling we’re about to embark on a really good phase of Jet fandom. 
I don’t really give a sh*t about what other fanbases think about us. 
But that’s just me. 

There are over 320,000 people in St Louis that don’t respect the Jets. 
St Louis doesn’t have an NFL team anymore.
Don’t really give a sh*t what people in St Louis think about the Jets. 
They lost their f*cking team. 
What’s more disrespected, having a middling NFL football team?
Or not having a team. 
Oakland is next.
Hey, San Diego, what do you think of our Jets?
Don’t respect us?
Don’t care.
You don’t have a team anymore.
 

For someone who doesn’t seem to care about it you sure talk a lot about it.

Rooting for a team is part of one’s identity. We post on this message board because we care. It’d be nice to win something from time to time.

[Jetster]

8 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

Honest question. 

Why do you care whether the Jets are respected around the league?

Would your feelings about your team be elevated if we were more “respected”?

Do you dislike your team because of your perception that we’re not “respected”?

The Pats have won a dozen tainted  SBs and no one outside of New England respects that POS franchise. 

Is that what you crave? Respect from multitudes of people you will never meet, who have no impact on your life or enjoyment of your team?

Why does it matter what anyone else thinks of your team when it comes to your enjoyment of your team?

I’m getting the feeling we’re about to embark on a really good phase of Jet fandom. 

I don’t really give a sh*t about what other fanbases think about us. 

But that’s just me. 

There are NFL teams that have never won a Super Bowl. The Jets were darlings in 2009/2010 when they got close. It's the Red Sox, Cubs phenomenon. 

People love underdogs, that's why EVERY FAN outside of New England loathes that team & thinks of them as cheaters & their owner as an old Don Quan who was lamenting the loss of his dear wife with patches on their uniforms & within weeks was hooked up with some young hottie & was recently getting tugged at some sleazy Asian spa. The Pats are as unlikable as they come. They circumvent the salary cap with their QB, they've been caught cheating numerous times & there isn't an NFL fan anywhere that isn't clamoring for their downfall, but do you think their fans care? Hell no, they wear it like a badge, "They hate us cause they ain't us", Tom Brady could smother Giselle in her sleep & Pats fans would be like, well, maybe Tom wanted her to smell the fabreeze he washed the pillow cases in. 

And this where we as Jet fans could possibly have the most fun we've ever had since Namath & it's been a LONG TIME COMING. As a lifelong Jet fan nothing would be sweeter than to FINALLY be the team in the AFC East to take down those cheating bastards with our young new QB & our new coaching staff. That team has been rubbing our noses in sh*t for 18 years outside of 2010. EIGHTEEN YEARS! Think about that? From the time your born until you graduate freaking High School, it's a LONG TIME. I want nothing more than to start wrestling away this damn division from them. The last QB to do that was Pennington when Brady went down! I give Adam Gase credit for WANTING to come here & go after it with Sam Darnold leading the way. Because deep down, Adam Gase feels the same way we do, he wants to be the coach of the team that takes down the Evil Empire. Let's do it!

[NYJ1]

8 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

I’m getting the feeling we’re about to embark on a really good phase of Jet fandom.

OMG so am I. A part of me is so nervous because I don't trust Mac to do things right or draft successfully. I keep thinking I'm going to wake up some morning to a real life nightmare in progress. A newspaper headline that says Jets trade Sam Darnold. Didn't want to pay his franchise QB asking price or something totally stupid like that.

But when I get past my skepticism of the front office, I see the makings of a great franchise built to compete for the SB for many years to come. Guys like Sammy, Jamal, and CJ give me that confidence and I look forward to seeing how it all works as a cohesive unit.

[southparkcpa]

11 hours ago, NYJ1 said:

Well, if my memory serves me correctly wasn't the 2009 team 30 minutes away from a SB? Leon bought the Jets in 1963 and delivered a SB IN 1969. But from 1969 until 1998, a 29 year span, the Jets went to the AFC championship only once in 1982. So one SB and two AFC championships in 36 years of ownership, but Woody is still the bad guy? While he still has another 9 years (according to you) to deliver a SB?

 

11 hours ago, Peace Frog said:

So you’re a self-loathing fan. 

I moved past that years ago. 

Let it go. 

I’m simply stating what I believe are facts. Woody is the owner of a team for 20 years that is statistically a bottom third performer.   whether he is better than Hess or the Browns is not my point.  I do NOT think Woody is a good owner.  I’m a Jets fan but not a Woody fan.