Leveon averaging 3.2 yards per carry....

[Sperm Edwards]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

You're ignoring the concept that no intelligent GM's spend big money on RB's.  The Steelers let Le'Veon walk.  The Rams are having buyer's remorse for paying Gurley.  

Good OL or bad OL, it's pretty much never worth it to spend elite money on a RB, no matter how good he is.  

We agree fully that Macc had no ability to build a team.  Worst GM of all time.  

Meh, Pittsburgh "let Le'Veon walk" after offering him a larger contract than the Jets offered him, and refused to acquire an extra high pick by trading him after not just tagging him but slapping him with the exclusive franchise tag.  The Rams went to a superbowl with Gurley. But without Gurley in the SB the offense fell apart. 

Whether it's elite money or an elite-level draft pick, the cost is about the same. That high draft pick you used on a RB meant you're more likely to need to cough up "elite money" on the high-dollar position you didn't draft in his stead. In the end it's incidental which one was drafted and which one was picked up via FA. The problem is if you're drafting a position high that doesn't get QB or QB-lite money even as an elite UFA. 

Anyway I can at least see the rationalization for this - on a barren team breaking in a young QB - more than I can see the rationalization for $15MM+ per year guaranteed for defenders who'll be ripe for getting released by the time the roster is done getting rebuilt.
 

[Sperm Edwards]

The far greater problem is more that he was added after/while so little was done with the OL, as though any fool thinks you put a playmaking RB behind a crappy OL and expect elite playmaking anyway. 

I could get behind signing an elite-$ RB for Darnold in year 2, but would not be behind signing the same high priced RB if we're just planning on starting a stopgap veteran QB like Fitz, McCown, etc.

• Try to estimate Prescott's value without Elliot, even playing behind a solid OL. Also imagine Elliot behind this OL. 
• See Gurley in 2016 -- what, did he become a less talented RB that one year of his life? He averaged 3.2 ypc that year -- sound familiar?
• Since week 3 (post-Eli) Barkley is averaging 2.4 ypc. 
• Imagine Kyle Allen if you swapped out Christian McCaffrey for, say, 31 year-old Matt Forte. 
• Ask Russell Wilson how much it helped and took pressure off him as a rookie to have Marshawn Lynch in his prime. Lynch had about the same # of carries entering 2012 as Bell had entering 2019, and Lynch had a running style that should be much more punishing on his body in comparison.
• Adding Corey Dillon lifted the Pats' offense from a pretty good 21-23 ppg to an elite (and more consistent) one averaging 27+ ppg.
• There are many other examples. 

It's not nothing. I agree it's often a waste to spend so heavily on one RB, and this season behind this line there isn't much that wouldn't be. The greater tragedy was thinking he'd be a cure-all for the team's OL-building failures, on top of half a season of failing to properly utilize him as the dual threat that made Bell so dangerous in the first place.

Predictability on top of poor OL (and usually poor QB) play will kill any elite RB's production. Shame, really. 

[Jetsfan80]

33 minutes ago, Smashmouth said:

Wait did you just say RB was non impactful ? Thats Hilarious. Even in the case of Safety you're going to tell me Adams is Non impactful ?? Was Ed Reed Not impactful ? Polumalu ? Lott ? Harris ? Chancellor ? Lynch ? and so many more I'm not going to bother to mention. Macc Sucked there's no Doubt but when a game changing RB becomes available you pounce especially when hes 26/27 and only on his second contract. Remember the Impact Marshall Faulk had with the Rams ? If you don't want to spend on a RB in FA Im fine with that but don't say the position is non impactful that's just ridiculous.

When the next Walter Payton comes around **** it dont waste the pick ? lol

 

Quick, name the starting RB's on any of the following Super Bowl winners:  

• 2015 Broncos
• 2014 Patriots
• 2011 Giants
• 2010 Packers
• 2009 Saints
• 2007 Giants
• 2006 Colts

You try to state RB matters in today's NFL and your examples are Marshall Faulk and Walter Payton.  lol.  

Safeties matter if they play like Ed Reed and Troy Polamalu.  Our Safety doesn't get INT's and his best plays are on unblocked blitzes against bad teams.  

[Jetsfan80]

1 hour ago, JiF said:

You don’t say?  This is the first time I’ve ever heard someone take this angle on his tenure. 

Tell that to the folks flying planes over Florham Park who think Adam Gase is the primary reason why this team sucks.  

[Villain The Foe]

24 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The far greater problem is more that he was added after/while so little was done with the OL, as though any fool thinks you put a playmaking RB behind a crappy OL and expect elite playmaking anyway. 

I could get behind signing an elite-$ RB for Darnold in year 2, but would not be behind signing the same high priced RB if we're just planning on starting a stopgap veteran QB like Fitz, McCown, etc.

• Try to estimate Prescott's value without Elliot, even playing behind a solid OL. Also imagine Elliot behind this OL. 
• See Gurley in 2016 -- what, did he become a less talented RB that one year of his life? He averaged 3.2 ypc that year -- sound familiar?
• Since week 3 (post-Eli) Barkley is averaging 2.4 ypc. 
• Imagine Kyle Allen if you swapped out Christian McCaffrey for, say, 31 year-old Matt Forte. 
• Ask Russell Wilson how much it helped and took pressure off him as a rookie to have Marshawn Lynch in his prime. Lynch had about the same # of carries entering 2012 as Bell had entering 2019, and Lynch had a running style that should be much more punishing on his body in comparison.
• Adding Corey Dillon lifted the Pats' offense from a pretty good 21-23 ppg to an elite (and more consistent) one averaging 27+ ppg.
• There are many other examples. 

It's not nothing. I agree it's often a waste to spend so heavily on one RB, and this season behind this line there isn't much that wouldn't be. The greater tragedy was thinking he'd be a cure-all for the team's OL-building failures, on top of half a season of failing to properly utilize him as the dual threat that made Bell so dangerous in the first place.

Predictability on top of poor OL (and usually poor QB) play will kill any elite RB's production. Shame, really. 

Exactly

 

[Jetster]

32 minutes ago, Sperm Edwards said:

The far greater problem is more that he was added after/while so little was done with the OL, as though any fool thinks you put a playmaking RB behind a crappy OL and expect elite playmaking anyway. 

I could get behind signing an elite-$ RB for Darnold in year 2, but would not be behind signing the same high priced RB if we're just planning on starting a stopgap veteran QB like Fitz, McCown, etc.

• Try to estimate Prescott's value without Elliot, even playing behind a solid OL. Also imagine Elliot behind this OL. 
• See Gurley in 2016 -- what, did he become a less talented RB that one year of his life? He averaged 3.2 ypc that year -- sound familiar?
• Since week 3 (post-Eli) Barkley is averaging 2.4 ypc. 
• Imagine Kyle Allen if you swapped out Christian McCaffrey for, say, 31 year-old Matt Forte. 
• Ask Russell Wilson how much it helped and took pressure off him as a rookie to have Marshawn Lynch in his prime. Lynch had about the same # of carries entering 2012 as Bell had entering 2019, and Lynch had a running style that should be much more punishing on his body in comparison.
• Adding Corey Dillon lifted the Pats' offense from a pretty good 21-23 ppg to an elite (and more consistent) one averaging 27+ ppg.
• There are many other examples. 

It's not nothing. I agree it's often a waste to spend so heavily on one RB, and this season behind this line there isn't much that wouldn't be. The greater tragedy was thinking he'd be a cure-all for the team's OL-building failures, on top of half a season of failing to properly utilize him as the dual threat that made Bell so dangerous in the first place.

Predictability on top of poor OL (and usually poor QB) play will kill any elite RB's production. Shame, really. 

We've already seen Prescott without Zeke & with a couple injuries on their oline & it wasn't pretty. 

[JustInFudge]

2 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

Tell that to the folks flying planes over Florham Park who think Adam Gase is the primary reason why this team sucks.  

Why?

[The Gooch]

I thought he was averaging a little over a yard from what I've seen so far!

[Jetster]

12 hours ago, The Gooch said:

I thought he was averaging a little over a yard from what I've seen so far!

And people keep asking why no screens, screens don't work if teams don't have to blitz. Our line was so bad teams were getting pressure keeping 8/9 guys near the LOS & rushing 3. Pushing the ball downfield helps the running game but it's a catch 22 because of pressure. Robbie Anderson not being a fighter hurts Sam, you need a guy with 1 on 1s that can win 50/50 balls but that's not his game. DT in his prime would have been nice, but we've got the old broken down version. 

[Smashmouth]

18 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

Quick, name the starting RB's on any of the following Super Bowl winners:  

• 2015 Broncos
• 2014 Patriots
• 2011 Giants
• 2010 Packers
• 2009 Saints
• 2007 Giants
• 2006 Colts

You try to state RB matters in today's NFL and your examples are Marshall Faulk and Walter Payton.  lol.  

Safeties matter if they play like Ed Reed and Troy Polamalu.  Our Safety doesn't get INT's and his best plays are on unblocked blitzes against bad teams.  

First of all Marshall Faulk and the Rams were the architects of today's NFL. Second high flying offenses very rarely win SB's since there is only one on that list most of those teams won with defense or defenses that got hot in the playoffs and as the defenses faltered the year after Broncos Giants (both Years) Packers Saints did not return to the SB. 

Honestly I don't give a sh*t about these fad offenses we see now I would much rather have a dominant OL with a brusing running game and a great defense any day .Most of these high flying offenses we see today can't even hold on to leads since they can barely run the football to hold the lead.

Why did the Rams lose to the Pats last year ? Gurley who that offense was created around got hurt. Why did the Falcons lose to the Pats with a huge lead ? Could not or did not run the football. Running games and defenses still win SB's . Funny how the Pats always seem to find a running game in the playoffs when they need it along with a defense that always seems to get the critical stop. Maybe they don't have an elite guy at RB but that's really not part of their make up since they don't pay anyone elite money .

Also remember the offense the Bills had in the early 90's not much different than what you see today points all over the damn place UNTIL they ran into the Giants who controlled the clock with the RUNNING GAME and beat them. Same thing with the Cowboys who ran the ball down their throats and controlled the football game while Buff made mistake after mistake. Can't tell me Buffalo's offense was not like today's offenses because just like the Rams they were always on the attack and had a running back who could do it all in Thomas plus they were loaded with great WR's I bet many of today coordinators use some of those schemes.

Throughout the history of the game high flying offenses always get stopped and why the NFL is trending so hard in that direction is because the coaching and how teams are built is turning into pure sh*t. 

[rangerous]

just to be clear, bell never had a great ypc.  i believe he's averaged about 4 ypc for his career.  so 3.2 behind the current jet oline is probably pretty good.  but more importantly he's way down on pass catching.  i believe the backs have only caught 27 balls this year and the yards per catch is around 7.  that's way down from what bell had on the steelers.  the jets could probably use him a lot better but with this oline it's doubtful he'd generate much more yardage, at least on a ypc basis.

[Jetsfan80]

2 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

Throughout the history of the game high flying offenses always get stopped and why the NFL is trending so hard in that direction is because the coaching and how teams are built is turning into pure sh*t. 

You're talking about offensive style. I'm talking about how investing heavily into RB is a mistake.  These aren't mutually exclusive points.  

[Jet Nut]

Using the average cost of a position isn’t the end all of how to value a position.  

Neither is the claim that the Rams wish they had Gurleys deal back.  They won with him and have been mediocre without him.  

The Steelers offered Bell a huge deal, paid him monster money based on what the average a the top made.  It wasn’t 4 mil per.

Zeke was paid, Saquan will baring injury.  Others will down the road.  

[Philc1]

7 hours ago, rangerous said:

just to be clear, bell never had a great ypc.  i believe he's averaged about 4 ypc for his career.  so 3.2 behind the current jet oline is probably pretty good.  but more importantly he's way down on pass catching.  i believe the backs have only caught 27 balls this year and the yards per catch is around 7.  that's way down from what bell had on the steelers.  the jets could probably use him a lot better but with this oline it's doubtful he'd generate much more yardage, at least on a ypc basis.

Plus Bell has been playing hurt since week 1 and half the games his qbs were Falk and Simian with defenses stacking 8 in the box knowing exactly when Gase was running the ball

 

I’m surprised his ypc is 3.2 and not lower

 

[Smashmouth]

15 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

You're talking about offensive style. I'm talking about how investing heavily into RB is a mistake.  These aren't mutually exclusive points.  

yeah I went off in a bit of a rant but I still feel a dynamic RB will always make an offense hard to deal with and be able to shut down close games in the 4th quarter

[rangerous]

5 hours ago, Smashmouth said:

yeah I went off in a bit of a rant but I still feel a dynamic RB will always make an offense hard to deal with and be able to shut down close games in the 4th quarter

it used to be the surest way to improve a team is to get a top flight running back.  that why there were so many great ones in the 60's and 70's.  this all changed when the west coast offense came into vogue.  even there a good running is still very valuable especially those guys who can pass catch and block.  the thing too is that all of the successful teams have decent running games.

[MicDrass1]

Bad signing .... knew it was .... not shocked bc it’s the Jets