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The Crimson King

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2 hours ago, The Crimson King said:

Gotta be caught stealing then. I think Grote was caught more than he stole so he was good at that. But then again, only 128 players on all of history with that low a number?

I'll throw this out as an uneducated guess though

Pretty much right. He is 2 caught stealing away from 100 in his career. Will be #129 in MLB history. The Grote reference was that he was the best I ever saw at throwing out runners. I remember when Lou Brock broke Maury Wills' record for steals in a season, and he said that Jerry Grote was the hardest catcher for him to steal on. Good job.?

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2 hours ago, section314 said:

Pretty much right. He is 2 caught stealing away from 100 in his career. Will be #129 in MLB history. The Grote reference was that he was the best I ever saw at throwing out runners. I remember when Lou Brock broke Maury Wills' record for steals in a season, and he said that Jerry Grote was the hardest catcher for him to steal on. Good job.?

favorite quote about Grote:

Johnny Bench: "If Grote was on the Reds, I'd be playing 1B"

He should have won several gold gloves but the story you hear is that he was so nasty a person that the writers wouldn't vote for him

I, on the other hand, have to report that every time I talked to him that he was nothing but pleasant and nice. OK, I only talked to him once.

Here's what happened. It was old timers day at Shea back when Nelson Day-Day owned the team, cared about Mets history and wasn't a cheap SOB. One of the gang had a theory that the Diamond Club had restrooms that you wouldn't catch diseases from (and no, Leon Hess was not a season ticket holder in our section). Since the ramp to the DC was right behind us, we'd sometimes all go with him to the Club for such activity. For some reason it was mandatory for a dozen people to walk out to the lot together for what we used to refer to on Long Island as "Jewish Goodbyes".

In any event, we took the elevator down to the street level. If you remember the Club elevator let you out right in front of the door to the clubhouse and often a player or two would be standing around or walking out with you (Sid Fernandez once knocked over Mrs. Crimson trying to get away from two teen girls trying to pinch his ample butt).

Standing along a wall on the way to the door was a small group that included Ken Boswell and Mr. Grote. I heard him say to Boswell, "Hold on, I gotta talk to this guy". I looked over and he came right to me, grabbed my hand, started shaking it enthusiastically and went on about how great it was to see me and that I really should come down and visit him in Texas. That could only mean one of two things, I looked like someone else he knew and wanted to be nice to or he has such great eyesight he was able to see the kids the Upper Deck all this years. I figured the latter. So here he is gushing and shaking my hand. I'm replying with things like "great to see you too" and "I'll try to get down to you in the fall if I can". My seatmates are standing there with their mouths agape. Grote slaps me on the shoulder, says "OK, see you soon" and goes back to Boswell to resume his conversation. 

We resume walking out and one of the guys asks me how I knew Grote. I told him that he played keys in the studios in NY but under the stage name of Alan Zavod (an actual keyboard player who was also someone I never met). So we had our hour and half goodbye and the subject never came up again. Years later the fellow I told the fib to was talking to someone at a party with me there (we all kept in touch over these long years). He told another person that I used to play music with Jerry Grote and would you believe he played synthesizer and electric piano. I had forgotten all about the incident and laughed really hard. I had to tell the truth at that point though.

It never occurred to me until right now. I wonder if Grote was mad at the guy he thought I was because he never came to Texas.

 

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11 minutes ago, The Crimson King said:

favorite quote about Grote:

 

Johnny Bench: "If Grote was on the Reds, I'd be playing 1B"

 

He should have won several gold gloves but the story you hear is that he was so nasty a person that the writers wouldn't vote for him

 

I, on the other hand, have to report that every time I talked to him that he was nothing but pleasant and nice. OK, I only talked to him once.

 

Here's what happened. It was old timers day at Shea back when Nelson Day-Day owned the team, cared about Mets history and wasn't a cheap SOB. One of the gang had a theory that the Diamond Club had restrooms that you wouldn't catch diseases from (and no, Leon Hess was not a season ticket holder in our section). Since the ramp to the DC was right behind us, we'd sometimes all go with him to the Club for such activity. For some reason it was mandatory for a dozen people to walk out to the lot together for what we used to refer to on Long Island as "Jewish Goodbyes".

 

In any event, we took the elevator down to the street level. If you remember the Club elevator let you out right in front of the door to the clubhouse and often a player or two would be standing around or walking out with you (Sid Fernandez once knocked over Mrs. Crimson trying to get away from two teen girls trying to pinch his ample butt).

 

Standing along a wall on the way to the door was a small group that included Ken Boswell and Mr. Grote. I heard him say to Boswell, "Hold on, I gotta talk to this guy". I looked over and he came right to me, grabbed my hand, started shaking it enthusiastically and went on about how great it was to see me and that I really should come down and visit him in Texas. That could only mean one of two things, I looked like someone else he knew and wanted to be nice to or he has such great eyesight he was able to see the kids the Upper Deck all this years. I figured the latter. So here he is gushing and shaking my hand. I'm replying with things like "great to see you too" and "I'll try to get down to you in the fall if I can". My seatmates are standing there with their mouths agape. Grote slaps me on the shoulder, says "OK, see you soon" and goes back to Boswell to resume his conversation. 

 

We resume walking out and one of the guys asks me how I knew Grote. I told him that he played keys in the studios in NY but under the stage name of Alan Zavod (an actual keyboard player who was also someone I never met). So we had our hour and half goodbye and the subject never came up again. Years later the fellow I told the fib to was talking to someone at a party with me there (we all kept in touch over these long years). He told another person that I used to play music with Jerry Grote and would you believe he played synthesizer and electric piano. I had forgotten all about the incident and laughed really hard. I had to tell the truth at that point though.

 

It never occurred to me until right now. I wonder if Grote was mad at the guy he thought I was because he never came to Texas.

 

 

 

Love this! Great line about Leon Hess and the bathroom?As far as calling a game and throwing out guys, Grote has no Met peers. I think Jerry could throw more guys out left handed than our current catcher does . He was a great player, and got a ton of big hits, especially in 73. Thanks for sharing that story. 

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27 minutes ago, section314 said:

Love this! Great line about Leon Hess and the bathroom?As far as calling a game and throwing out guys, Grote has no Met peers. I think Jerry could throw more guys out left handed than our current catcher does . He was a great player, and got a ton of big hits, especially in 73. Thanks for sharing that story. 

You also wonder how much the pitcher's success was on him too. I liked when he needed the pitcher to bear down or not get sloppy, he would FIRE the ball back to the mound with that great arm of his.

Kinda silly trivia, but that's what we are here for, so ...

After retiring from the Dodgers at the conclusion of the 1978 season, he actually came back to play three more separate times all with 3-4 years or so between said comebacks. Can you name them? (admittedly a trick question in part) 

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2 hours ago, The Crimson King said:

You also wonder how much the pitcher's success was on him too. I liked when he needed the pitcher to bear down or not get sloppy, he would FIRE the ball back to the mound with that great arm of his.

Kinda silly trivia, but that's what we are here for, so ...

After retiring from the Dodgers at the conclusion of the 1978 season, he actually came back to play three more separate times all with 3-4 years or so between said comebacks. Can you name them? (admittedly a trick question in part) 

Hints:

1st time: 1981

2nd time: 1985

3rd time: 1989

 

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On 1/12/2020 at 11:22 AM, Lith said:

OK.  Last set of hints on the 4x WS Champs.

Answers already given. Courtesy of @The Crimson King: Eddie Collins, Frankie Frisch and Jim Gilliam

- Remining Hall of Famer played for the Red Sox and was on all 4 Sox WS Champions in the 1910s.  He is a very low tier HOFer, does not come immediately to mind when you think of greats.  Inducted 1971.  Need to dig deep to remember him.  He is also the firstmajor leaguer to lead off both games of a doubleheader with home runs.  Played alongside Tris Speaker until Speaker was traded to Cleveland.  

 Harry Hooper, Hall of Fame CF for the Red Sox

- 3 of the non Hofers played for the A's in Philly.  Teammates of Eddie Collins & Home Run Baker on the A's teams that won the Series in 11,13 & 14.  All 3 were traded to the Red Sox and were teammates of the unnamed HOFer above when they won their 4th.

 Stuffy McInnis, Jack Barry and Amos Strunk.  Strunk was the guy pictured above.  McInnis and Barry along with Collins and Baker made up the $100,000 infield.  Believe the nickname came from a local paper because they were the greatest infield ever assembled at the time, worth at least $100K.

- Another one of the non HOFers also played for the A's in a different city and he was a WS MVP.

Gene Tenace @section314 got this one

- Another guy was an average relief pitcher who won two series each with Toronto and Boston. 

Relief Pircher Mike Timlin

- Last guy was an infielder on 3 of the 4 Sox teams as the HOFer that has not yet been guessed.  He won his 4th with Cleveland.

Most obsuure of the bunch.  Larry Gardner.

Answers above.

The $100,000 infield, McInnis, Collins, Barry and Baker:

Image

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23 minutes ago, section314 said:

Nice work. That was a tough one. I even think Bob Costas would have been stumped. Should have gotten Timlin, though. My bad.

I knew it would be real tough, which is why I started the question with just the Hall of Famers.  Was surprised that nobody got McInnis and Barry.  I really thought the $100,000 infield hint would give them away. 

I guess not everyone reads as much as I do about turn of the century baseball.  Either that or didn't play strat-o-matic as a kid with old time teams.  1911 A's were one of my favorite: HOF pitchers Eddie Plank and Chief Bender, Collins and Baker leading a great infield.  They even had the original Daniel Murphy in the outfield who also doubled as a back up on the infield.

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So here is an easier HOF question.  Name the first player at each position (including manager) to be inducted to the Hall of Fame.  Based on primary position as defined by HOF.  HOF makes distinction between the 3 OF positions.  Answer will include two players at 3 spots who were inducted at the same time.  Some are rpetty easy, but there are a couple of spots that are tough.

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1 hour ago, section314 said:

Gonna have to put on the old Thinking cap for this one!  1981..Dodgers again?

I'll give you this one (only because I am generous, kind and an all around sweetheart)

Before the 1981 season, Darrell Porter signed his first free agency contract with the Cardinals. The Royals couldn't pull off a trade to replace him. They lured Grote out of retirement and he backed up Wathan and Quirk.  Did pretty good in what little he played. At the end of the year when the rosters expand they bring up someone from AAA and release him. Then he signs with the Dodgers for the month and retires again after. This is part of the "name the team the following players played their last MLB game with" trivia question. Most people say Royals for Grote.

I'll give you 1985 because it is a bit obscure. Grote managed for one year in the Tigers minor league system.  Somewhere along the way he put himself in one game. He was 42 at the time. 

Here's the clue for the 1989 play at age 46: His teammates included Randy Niemann, Ed Glynn, Jackson Todd, Felix Millan, George Foster and Clint Hurdle 

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9 minutes ago, Lith said:

So here is an easier HOF question.  Name the first player at each position (including manager) to be inducted to the Hall of Fame.  Based on primary position as defined by HOF.  HOF makes distinction between the 3 OF positions.  Answer will include two players at 3 spots who were inducted at the same time.  Some are rpetty easy, but there are a couple of spots that are tough.

Manager....John McGraw    P Christy Mathewson, Walter Johnson  C Bill Dickey  SS Honus Wagner, Rogers Hornsby  1B Bill Terry  3B Pie Traynor   2B Eddie Collins  OF Mel Ott, Babe Ruth, Ty Cobb

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9 minutes ago, The Crimson King said:

I'll give you this one (only because I am generous, kind and an all around sweetheart)

Before the 1981 season, Darrell Porter signed his first free agency contract with the Cardinals. The Royals couldn't pull off a trade to replace him. They lured Grote out of retirement and he backed up Wathan and Quirk.  Did pretty good in what little he played. At the end of the year when the rosters expand they bring up someone from AAA and release him. Then he signs with the Dodgers for the month and retires again after. This is part of the "name the team the following players played their last MLB game with" trivia question. Most people say Royals for Grote.

I'll give you 1985 because it is a bit obscure. Grote managed for one year in the Tigers minor league system.  Somewhere along the way he put himself in one game. He was 42 at the time. 

Here's the clue for the 1989 play at age 46: His teammates included Randy Niemann, Ed Glynn, Jackson Todd, Felix Millan, George Foster and Clint Hurdle 

Does a Mets Old Timers day team count? Have to think about this for a bit. You are right, you are kind, generous and an all around sweetheart......at least in trivia.?

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16 minutes ago, Lith said:

So here is an easier HOF question.  Name the first player at each position (including manager) to be inducted to the Hall of Fame.  Based on primary position as defined by HOF.  HOF makes distinction between the 3 OF positions.  Answer will include two players at 3 spots who were inducted at the same time.  Some are pretty easy, but there are a couple of spots that are tough.

Does that consider the first class as the first five and then the other classes later until the famous picture of babe Ruth without a tie?

If so, the first group was only 5

P: Walter Johnson and Christy Mathewson (Cy Young was the next class)

RF: Babe Ruth

SS: Honus Wagner

CF: Ty Cobb

The next class had two managers: John McGraw and Connie Mack. This was also the class that Tris Speaker was in but Cobb beat him by one year

the rest came after so a few quesses:

1B: Lou Gehrig

2B: Eddie Collins

C, 3B, LF ?  Didn't get the Hall of Fame set for Strat-o-matic. That might have helped

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Hall of Fame question -- first player(s) at each position to be inducted. @section314 and @The Crimson King got off to a good start

Manager: Mack and Mcgraw are correct.

  • P Mathewson/Johnson is correct
  • Bill Dickey is incorrect
  • 1B: Gehrig is correct, plus there were 2 other 1Bs inducted with him.
  • 2B: Rogers Hornsby and Eddie Collins are both incorrect.
  • SS: Wagner is correct
  • 3B Pie Traynor is incorrect
  • LF: No guesses yet
  • CF Cobb is correct
  • RF: Ruth is correct.

So still looking for another 1B, C, 2B, 3B and LF. Multiple LFs were inducted together.

Edit -- 3 1Bs were inducted in 1939.  Gehrig and two others.

 

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1 hour ago, Lith said:

Hall of Fame question -- first player(s) at each position to be inducted. @section314 and @The Crimson King got off to a good start

Manager: Mack and Mcgraw are correct.

  • P Mathewson/Johnson is correct
  • Bill Dickey is incorrect
  • 1B: Gehrig is correct, plus there were 2 other 1Bs inducted with him.
  • 2B: Rogers Hornsby and Eddie Collins are both incorrect.
  • SS: Wagner is correct
  • 3B Pie Traynor is incorrect
  • LF: No guesses yet
  • CF Cobb is correct
  • RF: Ruth is correct.

So still looking for another 1B, C, 2B, 3B and LF. Multiple LFs were inducted together.

Edit -- 3 1Bs were inducted in 1939.  Gehrig and two others.

 

1B....Bill Terry?   1B  Hack Wilson

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2 hours ago, The Crimson King said:

I'll give you this one (only because I am generous, kind and an all around sweetheart)

Before the 1981 season, Darrell Porter signed his first free agency contract with the Cardinals. The Royals couldn't pull off a trade to replace him. They lured Grote out of retirement and he backed up Wathan and Quirk.  Did pretty good in what little he played. At the end of the year when the rosters expand they bring up someone from AAA and release him. Then he signs with the Dodgers for the month and retires again after. This is part of the "name the team the following players played their last MLB game with" trivia question. Most people say Royals for Grote.

I'll give you 1985 because it is a bit obscure. Grote managed for one year in the Tigers minor league system.  Somewhere along the way he put himself in one game. He was 42 at the time. 

Here's the clue for the 1989 play at age 46: His teammates included Randy Niemann, Ed Glynn, Jackson Todd, Felix Millan, George Foster and Clint Hurdle 

Wild guess here...San Diego Padres.

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6 hours ago, section314 said:

@Lith made me re-think this. You did say professional. Gotta be Japan.

Good guess, never would have thought of that myself

It was for the St. Lucie Legends of the Senior Professional Baseball Association. To qualify, a player had to have MLB experience and be over 35 years old.  The league played a full schedule in '89 as a pro winter league out of FL and folded after the start of the next year. A couple of the players made it back to MLB but some were as old as in their 50's

It was a big deal at the time that has completely faded in most folks memories. Anyone else recall this?

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I went with the following NYC Baseball-related questions for the Baseball Writer's Dinner, to be put at each table on laminated sheets (the answers will be upside down on the bottom).  Though there's still time to make changes if needed.  What do you guys think?

 

 

So you think you know New York Baseball?

 

1.       What 20-year old rookie was on deck for the NY Giants when Bobby Thomson hit the "Shot Heard 'Round the World" to win the 1951 pennant?

2.       Name the only World Series MVP for a team that LOST a World Series.

3.       What former Yankee holds the Expos/Nationals franchise Home Run record for a single season?

4.       What were the original seat colors for the 4 field levels at Shea Stadium (Field, Loge, Mezzanine, Upper Deck)?

5.       Name the starting position players for the 1955 World Series-winning Brooklyn Dodgers. 

6.       What pitcher had the most Wins for one team in the 2000s (2000-2009)?

7.       What slugger hit the most career Home Runs all-time against the Mets, with 60?  He also hit the first Homer in the history of Shea Stadium, in 1964. 

8.       The Yankees franchise didn’t begin as the New York Yankees.  What were they known as from 1901-02?  What did they become from 1903-1912?

9.       Who holds the Mets franchise record for Batting Average in a season?

10.   What pitcher held the World Series record for consecutive scoreless innings from 1918-61?  And who broke that record in 1961?

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22 hours ago, Jetsfan80 said:

I went with the following NYC Baseball-related questions for the Baseball Writer's Dinner, to be put at each table on laminated sheets (the answers will be upside down on the bottom).  Though there's still time to make changes if needed.  What do you guys think?

 

 

So you think you know New York Baseball?

 

1.       What 20-year old rookie was on deck for the NY Giants when Bobby Thomson hit the "Shot Heard 'Round the World" to win the 1951 pennant?

2.       Name the only World Series MVP for a team that LOST a World Series.

3.       What former Yankee holds the Expos/Nationals franchise Home Run record for a single season?

4.       What were the original seat colors for the 4 field levels at Shea Stadium (Field, Loge, Mezzanine, Upper Deck)?

5.       Name the starting position players for the 1955 World Series-winning Brooklyn Dodgers. 

6.       What pitcher had the most Wins for one team in the 2000s (2000-2009)?

7.       What slugger hit the most career Home Runs all-time against the Mets, with 60?  He also hit the first Homer in the history of Shea Stadium, in 1964. 

8.       The Yankees franchise didn’t begin as the New York Yankees.  What were they known as from 1901-02?  What did they become from 1903-1912?

9.       Who holds the Mets franchise record for Batting Average in a season?

10.   What pitcher held the World Series record for consecutive scoreless innings from 1918-61?  And who broke that record in 1961?

Pretty cool plus the JNBTT (Jets Nation Baseball Trivia Team) knows all these answers (well at least we do now :) )

Just in case you want to consider more (and an excuse to be pedantic and ask more questions), how about:

1. Nolan Ryan, Clayton Kershaw and Sandy Koufax have the three best career records in MLB history for hits allowed per 9 innings. An ex-Met is 4th. Who is he?

2. What former general manager had two sons that also became MLB general managers (and another son who owned a minor league club)  

3. The Dodger franchise, part of the NL since 1890 weren't permanently known by that name until 1932. Name at least 2 of the other 4 nicknames they were known by until then.

4. Only two players played for both the New York Giants and New York Mets. One was Willie Mays, who was the other?

5. Only nine players played for both the Brooklyn Dodgers and the New York Mets. Gil Hodges, Duke Snider and Roger Craig are the most well know. Name at least 3 of the other 6

6 .in the 50's, only one player played for the Yankees, Dodgers and Giants. Who was he?

7. The Mets and Yankees have only made 8 trades of major league players in their entire history. Only one involved former all-star players. Who was involved in the trade?

8 .Before the first Yankee Stadium was built, what two ballparks did the Yankees call home

9.What pitcher holds Yankee record for career losses? 

EDIT: One more that I thought of:

10. Who did Marvelous Marv Throneberry play more games for? The Mets or the Yankees?

   

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How about some minor league baseball trivia?

  1.  Who holds the career records for HR's with 484 ( and no it is not Crash Davis)?
  2.  Who holds the single season record for HR's with 72?
  3.  How about what pitcher holds the career record for strikeouts with 3,175?
  4.  Most runs in one season (hint, future teammate of the guy who holds the MLB one season record)
  5.  Single season record for stolen bases? 

BONUS (and mean a lot of bonus):

In 1961, The year before they started in MLB, the Mets had three minor league teams that they shared with other clubs to start them off. What cities did they play in? Only one player later played for the Mets although he was property of the team they shared the club with at the time. He was one of two players in the Mets first rule V draft (the other being Ted Schreiber)

Hints later

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New York Quiz clues:

1. It was a Shea pitcher not a CitiField one. It was not Seaver, Koosman, Gooden or Dick Rusteck.

2. He was a GM in NY and on the West Coast

3. One of the 4 was due to the name of the manager

4. An infielder

5. Of the 6, 4 were on the ’62 team and only 1 was on the team after the ’69 championship

6. He started the 1951 “Bobby Thomson HR” game and ended his MLB career as a Cardinal. The last batter he faced in the bigs was Bobby Thomson.

7. The player that the Mets got from the Yankees never played for them. He was traded for Mark Guthrie one week after the Mets acquired him

8. The location of one of the stadiums is why Yankees Stadium was built where it was

9. Not Whitey Ford,  Andy Pettitte, Catfish Hunter or Dooley Womack

    10. 11 game difference

 

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1 hour ago, The Crimson King said:

New York Quiz clues:

1. It was a Shea pitcher not a CitiField one. It was not Seaver, Koosman, Gooden or Dick Rusteck.

2. He was a GM in NY and on the West Coast

3. One of the 4 was due to the name of the manager

4. An infielder

5. Of the 6, 4 were on the ’62 team and only 1 was on the team after the ’69 championship

6. He started the 1951 “Bobby Thomson HR” game and ended his MLB career as a Cardinal. The last batter he faced in the bigs was Bobby Thomson.

7. The player that the Mets got from the Yankees never played for them. He was traded for Mark Guthrie one week after the Mets acquired him

8. The location of one of the stadiums is why Yankees Stadium was built where it was

9. Not Whitey Ford,  Andy Pettitte, Catfish Hunter or Dooley Womack

    10. 11 game difference

 

1. Sid Fernandez.

3. Bridegrooms, Robins and Superbas.  Manager Wilbert Robinson -- hence the Robins.  Not sure of 4th name.

4. Eddie Bressoud

6. Sal Maglie

8.  Either HIghland park or Hilltop Park something like that.  And Polo Grounds.

Will have to give the others some thought.

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4 hours ago, Lith said:

1. Sid Fernandez.

3. Bridegrooms, Robins and Superbas.  Manager Wilbert Robinson -- hence the Robins.  Not sure of 4th name.

4. Eddie Bressoud

6. Sal Maglie

8.  Either HIghland park or Hilltop Park something like that.  And Polo Grounds.

Will have to give the others some thought.

every single one correct (he says wiping a tear from his eyes)

1. Amazing acheivment for the big fella no? Fourth best HPG in ALL of MLB history. There was someone in the first row of the loge box down the right field line at Shea that showed up one day when Sid was starting and put up "ID" over the railing. No one had any idea what that meant. Then he struckout someone and they added an S. Then like the K corner, they kept adding for each K (SSSSSSSSSSID). They were there every game (or at least every Sid game) for years. Finally, when the  team finally started to wane and everybody started to bail, on the last day of the season they put up SSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSOLONG. Not an important point, just a fond memory. 

3. The fourth was "Grooms" for a couple of years. Kind of a trick question calling it four names. Bonus points for knowing the Robby thing.

4. You actually KNEW that? Wow. Of course you might need therapy

6. Good job there.

8. Hilltop Park, 168th and Broadway, about 30 blocks north of the premier athletic facility at the time, the Manhattan Oval :) 

Gotta say that this one impressive performance

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