Brian Schottenheimer is a clown.

[THE BARON]

30 minutes ago, Jetsfan80 said:

My position is very defensible.  And "8 wins" is a statistic!  It's just a very poor one to evaluate that 2013 team when you look at all the data available.  Simple as that.  

Simple as *8* wins in the number that counts.  That's not pride of authorship.  That's fact. 

[jgb]

4 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

Simple as *8* wins in the number that counts.  That's not pride of authorship.  That's fact. 

No one said “it doesn’t count.” We just said when used alone to extrapolate a team’s future performance, it can lead to bad decisions because it is overly simplistic (I.e., inaccurate) to place equal weight on all wins and losses, regardless of circumstances.

If you want to debate someone who thinks wins are not important you should probably go find someone who actually holds that view.

[Jetsfan80]

5 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

Simple as *8* wins in the number that counts.  That's not pride of authorship.  That's fact. 

It's also a fact that they were outscored by 97 points.  Teams that get beaten like that far more often than not end up with about 4 wins.  And that matters when analyzing the relative success or failure of a season.

But sure, look at this stuff in a vacuum, it's whatever.

[jgb]

1 minute ago, Jetsfan80 said:

It's also a fact that they were outscored by 97 points.  Teams that get beaten like that far more often than not end up with about 4 wins.  And that matters when analyzing the relative success or failure of a season.

But sure, look at this stuff in a vacuum, it's whatever.

Division doesn’t matter! Schedule doesn’t matter! FQB missed the game? Tough! Margin of victory or defeat? Irrelevant! All 8-8 teams are equal!

 

[THE BARON]

15 minutes ago, jgb said:

No one said “it doesn’t count.” We just said when used alone to extrapolate a team’s future performance, it can lead to bad decisions because it is overly simplistic (I.e., inaccurate) to place equal weight on all wins and losses, regardless of circumstances.

If you want to debate someone who thinks wins are not important you should probably go find someone who actually holds that view.

There is no debate here.  There never was.  They found a way to win 8 games and the win loss column sits above any other number.  Let that sink in.

[THE BARON]

9 minutes ago, jgb said:

Division doesn’t matter! Schedule doesn’t matter! FQB missed the game? Tough! Margin of victory or defeat? Irrelevant! All 8-8 teams are equal!

 

At last... A moment of clarity.

[jgb]

16 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

There is no debate here.  There never was.  They found a way to win 8 games and the win loss column sits above any other number.  Let that sink in.

 

14 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

At last... A moment of clarity.

So your argument is that you would've made the same bad decisions that gave us 2014 on the basis of our 8-8 record in 2013. You know what, why I am trying to defend you? You can have that "win" lol.

[THE BARON]

23 minutes ago, jgb said:

 

So your argument is that you would've made the same bad decisions that gave us 2014 on the basis of our 8-8 record in 2013. You know what, why I am trying to defend you? You can have that "win" lol.

2014 saw a roster intentionally depleted by an inexperienced GM with a coach killing agenda.  I'm not making any statement other than the Jets won 8 games in 2013 under Rex Ryan. 

[JohnnyLV]

18 hours ago, Sperm Edwards said:

I

Likewise, there's no evidence that Saleh had more than marginal input on the 2021 draft class (and let alone any evidence that this input drastically changed the selections).

 

I am not so sure of that. I would not say there is compelling evidence he had a significant influence either but there are a few things that point to it being more than marginal:

1. Gase's grading scheme has scheme fit as a large contributor to overall grade, so even if he is never consulted he has a pretty big influence on the picks taken

2. JD has always wanted good character and athletic guys but we took that to even another level in this draft

3. He was 1000% behind Zach, and the other offensive picks. The 2021 Launch show clearly confirmed that.

4. Mostly though after MC1, the defensive picks all seem to have heavy Saleh influence. All of them are scheme fits that can be coached up into slightly new positions. It has become clear that Saleh is truly the anti-Bowles/Gase in that he seems to prefer coaching up a young player and developing them within their system than plugging in a veteran. It seems to be a core principal of the Jets now and that seems to be as much Saleh as JD

So I think in the end it is likely strong collaboration. So far Saleh is an ideal HC candidate because unlike most DC to OC head coach hires,  he seems to be a CEO type head coach, likes to teach and develop young players and seems to value offense as much if not more than defense, at worst balanced which we have not had maybe ever.

Side note: We wont know for 2 or 3 years but I truly believe this will go down as the best Jets draft ever, and maybe even a historical one. 

 

[Sperm Edwards]

16 hours ago, southparkcpa said:

I agree with you….  Tanny has failed at everything he has done except the period of drafting under Mangini.  

Even that would’ve caught up to them over time. The same team that dug in deep on Revis dug in even deeper on Gholston, in terms of draft pick value.

That 2008 draft wasn’t good. Keller was fine for a couple years, but if we hadn’t traded up I think the Packers drafted Jordyn Nelson in our original slot. The move-up cost another 4th rounder, so…success in that he was better than plenty of others we’ve drafted, but (like Jamal Adams) there were better picks at needed positions. Also traded 2 more picks - a 3rd & a 5th - and 3 years at premium $ for what ultimately became a season & a month of Kris Jenkins. And got his ass handed to him with the Vilma trade by leaving a loophole in that allowed N.O. to let his rookie contract expire & then re-sign him 5 min later, dropping 2 rounds in the process. Also drafted a crackhead QB to hopefully back up the bust he drafted 2 years prior.

They played it Macc-safe early in 2006 (and it’s still more than questionable that Mangold, as outstanding as he was, was enough to get back for John Abraham). Ferguson was excellent for about 4 years, pretty good for a couple more, but had longevity like he was made of iron. Revis was his best pick, but then he screwed that up by forcing a 6-year rookie deal on him, only to have the player hold out after 3 years of pocketing more than he would’ve under a normal/slotted 5-year deal. 

We’ve had worse, for sure, but the pair weren’t savants either.

[nyjunc]

20 hours ago, pointman said:

Might want to brush up on that whole reading comprehension thing. Billy Madison style if you must.

You might want to start to understand the role Brian has down there before you start idiotic threads

[SouthernJet]

On 6/21/2021 at 10:03 PM, pointman said:

When asked if Trevor Lawrence was the starter for Jacksonville he wouldn't say yes. Instead he said this:

 

 

 

Also, Belichick's a scumbag. 

i forget schotty was OC. we may have same scenario we had with gase and manning. The decent to good QB play masking the dumbness of OC

PLUS lets face it, Urban Meyer totally controls Offense, the gameplan, the calls etc of his teams. Schotty will be like Herm was in TB before we hired him. Herm was DB coach for Dungy and famous DC Monte Kiffen yet genius Jets made a HC of a NEVER been a HC oe even a coordinator in NFL or college baucause  (as Jets said at time) quality of TB defense. LOL, Herm got coffee for Dungy and Monte.

Schotty wont have much Offense input ingame , trust me. He will have 'prep work' for Urban during week do Urban only looks at a few hours of edited down film of what Schooty condensed form the 100 hours he watched LOL

[pointman]

50 minutes ago, nyjunc said:

You might want to start to understand the role Brian has down there before you start idiotic threads

lol. Umad and it tastes so good. You might want to understand a man is accountable for his words, period. Good luck there, peanut.

[Albaniajet]

On 6/23/2021 at 12:29 AM, sourceworx said:

 

 

 

Idiot Rex called that play

[docdhc]

On 6/22/2021 at 10:58 PM, SAR I said:

2010 Schottenheimer and Sanchez engineered 5 miracle 4th quarter comebacks necessary because the Jets D blew them.  Texans, Browns, Lions, Broncos, Steelers.  Brian and Mark turned 6-10 into 11-5.  They carried the D that season.  And in the playoffs too.  

Rex Ryan's defense was tremendously overrated, to this day in fact.  And let's not sweep 2011 under the rug either.  We were 8-5 with 3 easy games against losing teams and the D let Victor Cruz go 99 yards and we lost them all. 

History now shows that Rex wasted our money, wasted our draft picks, and wasted 5 years perpetuating this myth that he was some 'great' defensive mind just so he could land his next coaching job.  We should have kept Schottenheimer and Sanchez, gave them the tools they needed offensively, and see what might have happened.  The cavalcade of crap that followed at QB and OC, the changes so-called "smart" Jets fans screamed for, was dead wrong.

SAR I

Agree with everything you say about Rex and he proved it when he went to Buffalo. Disagree on Sanchez who went on to prove just what he was after leaving the Jets. He was still young and in his prime and went from 2nd string to third string to out of the league without ever showing he could be a starting qb again. 

[jgb]

21 hours ago, THE BARON said:

2014 saw a roster intentionally depleted by an inexperienced GM with a coach killing agenda.  I'm not making any statement other than the Jets won 8 games in 2013 under Rex Ryan. 

Nice walkback from arguing all that matters when evaluating a team is W/L record.

[THE BARON]

1 hour ago, jgb said:

Nice walkback from arguing all that matters when evaluating a team is W/L record.

I never made such any such statement.  However, I'm glad you are contented with your self-awarded participation trophy.

In my book, you'll always be Number One.

 

[jgb]

5 minutes ago, THE BARON said:

I never made such any such statement.  However, I'm glad you are contented with your self-awarded participation trophy.

In my book, you'll always be Number One.

 

Just when I thought you couldn't add anything less relevant to this conversation than you already have. Bravo, sir. Impressive in its own way.

[THE BARON]

1 minute ago, jgb said:

Just when I thought you couldn't add anything less relevant to this conversation than you already have. Bravo, sir. Impressive in its own way.

Thank you.  Compliments are always welcome.  

[Jetsfan80]

On 6/24/2021 at 10:37 AM, THE BARON said:

There is no debate here.  There never was.  They found a way to win 8 games and the win loss column sits above any other number.  Let that sink in.

[jgb]

1 hour ago, Jetsfan80 said:

 

[nyjunc]

On 6/24/2021 at 5:14 PM, pointman said:

lol. Umad and it tastes so good. You might want to understand a man is accountable for his words, period. Good luck there, peanut.

I don't think you understand what any of that means but congrats on one of the silliest posts in message board history.

[pointman]

9 hours ago, nyjunc said:

I don't think you understand what any of that means but congrats on one of the silliest posts in message board history.

It was a pretty simple, straight forward post. Sound it out. I'd argue you post garbage but I have no clue who you are. Welcome to the forum though.